The Elohim we serve is the one that truly decides all things. I believe that He will judge us all by His word. What it says completely. How we line up with what He instructed.

The Hebrews of old before Messiah had a hope. It was in the coming of the Messiah. Today the Jewish people have this same hope. Don't you think? Even though they believe He will be coming the first time. Their hope is in the Messiah. They did not recognize Him the first time. Much like Yosepth's brothers did not recognize him to be chosen. Well of course because of Yosepth all were saved.

Our hope is in the return of Messiah. Much more could be said here as well. Another point is that just as the brothers did not recognize Yosepth. The Jewish people will come to the knowledge that He was indeed their chosen brother. Thus, being reunited with Him. The whole story of Yosepth is right in line with the Messiah.

I realize that most already knows of these things. As we all study Torah the Messiah is revealled to us is newness everyday.

quote:

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brmarty wrote: “In my view, these verses give me the understanding that YAHSHUA was a YAHWEH and was with the Father from the beginning of creation.

"KJV John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with YAHWEH(the Father), and the Word was YAHWEH (his family name). 2 The same was in the beginning with YAHWEH(the Father)."

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Please bear with me as I try and understand your position. Your view is that Yahshua is one of two Yahwehs. One Yahweh is the Father and the second Yahweh is the Son. In what sense is Yahshua the Son before Bethlehem? Is it simply that Yahweh the Father created him and called him His Son?

In John 1:1 you don’t understand the first Yahweh (Greek theos) and the second Yahweh to have the same meaning. The second one being the family name and not Yahweh Himself. But then the third time Yahweh (theos) is used (verse 2) you’ve reverted back to considering it Yahweh and not the family name. How did you determine the middle theos was not Yahweh but the family name?

If Yahshua is one of the two Yahwehs why would he need to be exalted and how could he die if he was more then human?

quote:

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brmarty wrote: “I was unaware that there were other names for the theory that YAHSHUA did not pre-exist with YAHWEH until his fleshly birth other than the "oneness theory". What would you call your particular view as it is clear by your own words that you feel YAHSHUA did not exist until being born of His Fleshly mother?”

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”Oneness” is a modern term basically the same as modalism or modalistic monarchianism and stems from Sabellianism. I guess you would call my view Monotheism for I believe in “The only true God, and Yahshua Messiah, whom thou hast sent” (Jn 17:3).

quote:

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brmarty wrote: “Now then, if we can focus on the "NEW TESTAMENT or COVENANT" questions, were you aware of the Greek Text problems whenever this "new testament" occurs in the Majority Text and the problems with the Majority Text?”

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quote:

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torah4today wrote: “But since that time, would you agree that when we see the phrase "House of Israel" that it refers to the northern tribes and "House of Judah" refers to "the Jews" of the southern kingdom, called "Judah"?”

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Yes.

quote:

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torah4today wrote: “I happen to believe that the majority of christians over these centuries are Ephraim/House of Israel.

And I believe they will come to the Torah, just as "the Jews" will come to the Messiah. They will join together as one nation (Hosea 1:11, Eze. 37:22, etc.) and the New Covenant will commence in full at that time.”

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So, do you believe everyone (other then those in the first resurrection) will be resurrected and live for a little while and given a second chance to accept Yahweh?

quote:

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torah4today wrote: “That's the gist of how I see it. Yes I may be totally wrong but the scriptures seem plain on these points to my fallible and finite mind.”

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quote:

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Yahwehwitnesses wrote: “I don't see where John 1:14 has the word "born" written within it.”[/QUOTE

That’s my point it doesn’t because the Greek word used is “ginomai” and means: be, come to pass, be made, be done, come, become. But Gal 4:4 uses the same Greek word so why did you insist it should be translated “born”?

[QUOTE]Yahwehwitnesses wrote: “John 1:14 says: And the Word became flesh.

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The RSV has “became” and the KJV has “made.” I believe Yahweh’s word/voice/command made/created Yahshua’s body by impregnating His handmaid Mary, because Messiah said, “A body hast thou prepared me” (Heb 10:5).

Do you believe Yahshua (the Word) became flesh, as in turned into flesh or just created a body for himself and took possession of it.

quote:

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Yahwehwitnesses wrote: “YAHSHUA WAS THE FIRST BORN OF ALL CREATION Colossians 1:15 & Hebrews 1:4-6.”

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Do you believe in a new creation with this present world to be destroyed? You gave Heb 1:4-6 as a reference:

Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Do you know verse 5 is a quote from Ps 2:7 and do you realize this speaks of his 2nd birth in the tomb rather then his 1st birth in a Bethlehem?

quote:

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Yahwehwitnesses wrote: “Yahshua is the beginning and the end, the "First born" and the "Last Adam" (Rev 22:13 & 1 Corinthians 15:44-47).”

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If he is the beginning then how could he have been begotten or created by Yahweh? Wouldn’t Yahweh be the beginning and not Yahshua.

[QUOTE]Yahwehwitnesses wrote: “If you want to see more verses on this, please read my post at
http://www.eliyah.com/forum2/Forum10/HTML/000292.html]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave52:
So, do you believe everyone (other then those in the first resurrection) will be resurrected and live for a little while and given a second chance to accept Yahweh?

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The short answer? I don't know.

The somewhat expanded is that I think there may be either people of satanically contaminated bloodlines which may not be able to be redeemed. Maybe these are the same as "reprobate" people, or maybe not. There are theories about this kind of stuff and theories are interesting to contemplate, but in the end, to me they are still just theories.

Outside of any groups of people who might be considered reprobate or have the theorized "tainted bloodlines" and therefore unsalvageable, yes I believe everyone will be given a chance at salvation/eternal life in the resurrection.

Expanding further to your question...

I think one might actually call it a first chance for most people. Second chancers for those who were "cut off" from the first covenant (the one given at Sinai).

Eze. 37:11 And He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are all the house of Yisra’el. See, they say, ‘Our bones are dry, our expectancy has perished, and we ourselves have been cut off!’

That sure sounds like a second chance to me!

However, if one never signed onto that covenant or any other subsequent covenant, they will be offered an opportunity to enter into the New Covenant which would be the first one entered into by said parties, and therefore their "first chance" at salvation/eternal life.

And that's the expanded answer

quote:

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Originally posted by Bondservant:
Just as the brothers were reunited with Yosepth we to will be brought together to be joined together in Messiah.

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Shalom Bondservant,

I'm in agreement with your post. That's about how I see things. Most christians/messianics and sacred namers (Ephraim for the most part) have written off "the Jews" and most Jews have written off christians/messianics, etc. People need not worry so much about writing others off or proclaiming them hellbound (lake bound?)or whatever.

Here's a novel idea! Let's trust YHWH and let HIM sort it all out (for surely He will). Meanwhile we can pray for mercy for our own wretched selves.

Please read the rest of the thread and offer your comments. Thanks for your input.

I'd like to pose a question (with a few follow-ups).

• Is it or will it be possible for someone to violate or break the New Covenant?

• If so, how would one do that?

• If one were to violate it, what are the consequences of such violation?

• Are there degrees of violation or breaking of the New Covenant and consequential degrees of punishment?
  

You Wrote: in
http://www.eliyah.com/forum2/Forum10/HTML/000436-8.html
The Greek word translated “born” here is “ginomai” and is translated be, come to pass, be made, be done, come, become. It is the same word used in John 1:14 and translated “made”.

My Reply: You have mistaken.

Examples:
NKJV uses the word Became
http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&passage=John+1%3A14&version=NKJV

NIV uses the word Became
http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&passage=John+1%3A14&version=NIV

ASV uses the word Became
http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&passage=John+1%3A14&version=ASV

NASB uses the word Became
http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&passage=John+1%3A14&version=NASB

MSG uses the word Became
http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&passage=John+1%3A14&version=MSG

AMP uses the word Became
http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&passage=John+1%3A14&version=AMP

WE uses the word Became
http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&passage=John+1%3A14&version=WE

NLT uses the word Became
http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&passage=John+1%3A14&version=NLT

ESV uses the word Became
http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&passage=John+1%3A14&version=ESV

CEV uses the word Became
http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&passage=John+1%3A14&version=CEV

YLT uses the word Became
http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&passage=John+1%3A14&version=YLT

Darby uses the word Became
http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&passage=John+1%3A14&version=DARBY

NIV/UK uses the word Became
http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&passage=John+1%3A14&version=NIV-UK

Furthermore Yahshua and his disciples were not Latin. THE KJV is one of the very few scripture books that still use the word "Made".

How about you see what Isaiah 9:6 says: (unto us a son is given

Or how about John 3:16 (He gave his only begotten son)

Or how about Matthew 10:40 (He that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.)

Or how about Mark 9:37 (and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me. )

Or how about John 14:10 (Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.)

Or how about John 12:49 (For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.)

Or how about John 14;28 (You have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.)

This one is very clear that the Father worked through his son from his sons beginning. Ephesians 3:9 (And to make all see how this secret is administered, which for ages past has been hidden in Elohim who created all things through Yahshua Messiah.

Colossians 1:12Giving thanks to the Father who has made us fit to share in the inheritance of the set-apart ones in the light, 13 who has delivered us from the authority of darkness and transferred us into the reign of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, 15 who is the likeness of the invisible Elohim, the first-born of all creation.16 Because in Him were created all that are in the heavens and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or rulerships or principalities or authorities – all have been created through Him and for Him.

Now if you go back to my post, you will find that I did very well to answer many
questions. Some people I already answered the same questions in other posts, and if you read all the way through, most people agreed within my post http://www.eliyah.com/forum2/Forum10/HTML/000292.html , with what I was sharing, and some even added more verses to confirm that Yahweh created Yahshua, and that Yahweh worked through Yahshau from his son's beginning.

It was the Father in the son, that worked through his son, and the Father is greater than his son.

We are to serve the Father above all things, for Yahweh always was and always will be The Alimighty G-d and everlasting Salvation. Yahshua is his son, that he created in the heavens and gave him a name above all the angels in heaven. (1 Corinthians 15:44-47, Hebrews 1:2-6 Hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds;

3 who being the effulgence of his glory, and the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had made purification of sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

4 having become by so much better than the angels, as he hath inherited a more excellent name than they.

5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, This day have I begotten thee, and again, I will be to him a Father, And he shall be to me a Son.

6 And when he again bringeth in the firstborn into the world he saith, And let all the angels of Yahweh worship him.

Yahshua is the mediator (1 Tim 2:5), and he served his Father by his Fathers commandment (John 12:49-50)

YOU WROTE:
"KJV John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with YAHWEH (the Father), and the Word was YAHWEH (his family name). 2 The same was in the beginning with YAHWEH(the Father)."

My Reply:
Again you have mistaken: You added the most High name YHWH / Yahweh to that verse.

This is what it should say: John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Elohim, and the Word was Elohim. 2 He was in the beginning with Elohim. 3 All came to be through Him, a and without Him not even one came to be that came to be.

In Gen 1:26 Elohim said (Lets us make mankind). In Gen 3:22 YHWH Elohim said (The man has become like one of us)

Who is the other Elohim that YHWH spoke to? Clue: Yahshua said I and My Father are one. You see: Elohim is a spirit.(John 4:24) and according to Rev 3:1 Elohim has seven spirits. Want me to name all seven?

Look what You wrote “Dave, I believe the problem you are having is failing to understand that YAHSHUA IS A YAHWEH AND SO IS FATHER YAH.

My Comment: That seems to be a twisted Jehovah Witness teaching, and that's not what scripture says, and it's against the first commandment to make Yahshua as Yahweh, or equal to Yahweh.

In fact I can show you many more scriptures where Yahshua made it very clear that he was lesser than Yahweh and/or that Yahweh was greater than him.

I'm sorry but your teachings are wrong, and you have no inspired scriptures to back up what you teach. Though you may have people that want to agree with you, the only thing that matters here is if the heavenly father agrees with what you are teaching to others.

Belive what you want, I'm only trying to share with you what the scriptures really say, and I provide them so you can confirm.

I can not change you, but with Yahweh can.
He knows your heart, and I see that you have love for him. I ask that you pray and seek the Father with all your heart, soul and mind. I am sure the spirit of truth will show you what was shown to me.

Do not be against me for I have shown you my Father as it is written, and The Word is our judge. We will be judged for the words we speak, and the things we teach.

Shalom in Yahweh

Brother Yohanan

Hi YAHWEHWITNESSES,

That was one of the most blatant forms of self-righteous postings I have ever read on this forum.

And by the way, I was the one who made those comments, not Dave52.

you said,

"YOU WROTE:
"KJV John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with YAHWEH (the Father), and the Word was YAHWEH (his family name). 2 The same was in the beginning with YAHWEH(the Father)."

My Reply:
Again you have mistaken: You added the most High name YHWH / Yahweh to that verse."

I said those words, not Dave52. And, again, you have absolutely no way at all of knowing whether or not "theos" in those verses was translated as YAHWEH OR ELOHIYM.

And, I have absolutely no way of knowing for sure that YAHWEH could have been the correct name to use.

Are you saying that your interpretation is right and that mine is wrong? Very, very pretentious.

you said,

"Look what You wrote “Dave, I believe the problem you are having is failing to understand that YAHSHUA IS A YAHWEH AND SO IS FATHER YAH.

My Comment: That seems to be a twisted Jehovah Witness teaching, and that's not what scripture says, and it's against the first commandment to make Yahshua as Yahweh, or equal to Yahweh. "

That is because you do not understand that YAHWEH is a family name, not just the personal name of the Father, which is YAH YAHWEH, or a "supreme being". Of course I agree that Father YAH is greater than His Son YAHSHUA, but that does not somehow negate that YAHWEH is a family name.

you said,

"I'm sorry but your teachings are wrong, and you have no inspired scriptures to back up what you teach. Though you may have people that want to agree with you, the only thing that matters here is if the heavenly father agrees with what you are teaching to others."

Again, who are you to tell anyone anywhere that your interpretation of the scripture is right and their's wrong? What kind of self-righteous attitude is that to be taking with anyone at anytime, especially on a forum where there are many understandings being presented. I vehemently disagree with your ideas and understandings and your method of approach.

you said,

"I can not change you, but with Yahweh can."

And brother, He can change you too. I am absolutely flabbergasted to have read this posting. Not only is there absolutely no humility, you actually are deceived to the point of thinking that your private interpretation of these scriptures are absolute truth. That is a place that I never want to be at.

May YAHWEH open your eyes and heart to humility and to meekness, and open all of our minds to understanding.

your brother marty

Ooops... I posted a response to Yahwehwitnesses on the newly rebumped thread entitled "Yahshua is not YHWH. Yahshau was created", thinking he had correctly identified Dave as the author and himself (instead of you) as the respondent, etc. and I didn't go back to look for myself. My bad, my apologies.

You and I agree for the most part on the New Covenant but still disagree on the nature of the relationship between YHWH and Y'shua. Yet we are able to get along fine. Likewise, I am for the most part in agreement with Dave on the Father/Son relationship issue and disagree with him on the New Covenant issue. And likewise we get along fine.

So you and Dave are both wrong on those issues that I disagree with you on. Why don't you two pray that you will be right like me? (tongue firmly planted in cheek)

Back to reality for a sec...regarding this topic, this conversation belongs on that thread. I would really appreciate it if all parties here will keep the topic here to the New Covenant if that's not asking too much.

Please refer to my answer to YW on that page. I agree with you Marty that YW has that old self-righteous attitude kicking in and as I mentioned on the other thread, I pray he takes a good look at himself and discern if there might not be some deception in him.

We are all succeptible to deception. (If you don't believe that, then maybe you are deceived! )

Shabbat Shalom,
T4T

Hosea 6:1 Come, and let us return unto YHWH: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.

2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know YHWH: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

After two days He will revive us. IN THE THIRD DAY He will raise us up!

Are we not now entering into the THIRD day since Messiah?

Is this THIRD day the so called "millenium"?

THEN, we shall know if we follow on to know YHWH.

You wrote: That was one of the most blatant forms of self-righteous postings I have ever read on this forum.

My Reply: I do not see it as a self-righteous posting, and I am not attacking anybody. I am standing up for what scripture says, and I stand against the spirit of error when they teach or post otherwise.

I am in the guidlines of the rules and of the Messianic faith teachings as shown and stated within this Web site.
http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/forum/Ultimate.cgi?action=agree

I provided much scripture and links to more of my posts to confirm additional scriptures to prove all things that I say. If you don't agree with scripture, don't take it out on me.

My Overlook: Thank you for correction: I could hardly see the word "quote:" on my laptop, as He apparently used a much smaller font for the word quote: I now see that you wrote it, but my point still applies to whomever wrote it an whoever agrees with what you wrote in John 1:1, because it is not what scripture says.

I agreed to and obide by the guidlines and rules of this Web site. Seems that others are in violation of what they agreed to when they registered to post on this wonderful Messianic Faith Web site.

You Wrote: I said those words, not Dave52. And, again, you have absolutely no way at all of knowing whether or not "theos" in those verses was translated as YAHWEH OR ELOHIYM.

My Reply: Since when did "Theos" ever translate to YHWH? Give me a break, you are way out of line. If you want to add to, or modify scriptures or change meaning of words as it was given to us, then you are the one that needs to prove your own interpretations.

You Wrote: Again, who are you to tell anyone anywhere that your interpretation of the scripture is right and their's wrong?

My reply: I never said my interpretations are right or wrong. I share what I believe and I back it up with scriptures.

I provided many examples shown above from what other bibles and scripture books show to back up my beliefs and statements.

So where is the proof by scripture too back up what you claim from your KJV for John 1:1-3?

You wrote and applied the name YAHWEH -
KJV John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with YAHWEH(the Father), and the Word was YAHWEH(the Son).
2 The same was in the beginning with YAHWEH(the Father).3 All things were made by him(the Father); and without him (the Son) was not any thing made that was made."

Looks to me like you added to scripture and you modified it yourself....!!

EliYah also encourages us to use as much scripture as possible in our posts?

Are we not to prove all things?

You accuse me of the things I said to be my private interpretations.

My reply: I have provided scripture as it is written and linked for you and others to verify. Scripture is not my words, nor my writtings. I am not alone in what I believe as shown in many of my other posts, and as shown by EliYah throughout this Web site.

http://www.eliyah.com/tetragrm.html

It seems that certain people are believing and teaching other faiths within this site by using alternate names, twisting scriptures, and applying wrongful and/or alternate meanings to ceratin names and words only to promote themselves. Some people even come here and teach or support their own faiths or Christian doctrines that are against what this site is all about, and those particular people are against what they agreed to when they registered here.

I don't agree with the Romanized KJV and it's usage of the fabricated names Jesus, Jehovah and the Title God and LORD just to name a few.

I also am not happy when certain people have bad things to say about Jews.

Sorry if you don't believe as I do. I am a firm believer in what scripture says.

Shalom in Yahweh

Brother Yohanan

Is that asking too much?

I do believe I am in line with your topic. Maybe you and others don't agree with the scriptures I have posted.

I can take a hint.
I think I will leave.

Shalom in Yahweh

2 Corinthians 11:7 Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely?

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John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.