I just came into this topic and corrected what was being said.

The reality here is according to scripture:

John 14:6 Yahshua saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me.

This is the Auhtority given by the Father, "the name" that Yahshua came in, and there is no other way.

Yahshua is [The Word of Yahweh]
Yahweh is [The Word]

Yahshua means: Yahweh is salvation
Yes the Word of Yahweh saves, but not by faith alone, where is goes in one ear and out the other. You gotta make some changes, and you gotta take some action.

That's why you must go through Yahshua first, because one must first receive the Word of Yahweh, then repent and except it, then become born again, and obey the Word, then you have the Father.

Faith by itself without the works is dead..

Anybody who teaches oppisite of what scripture says, will be judged by the Word "The Father".

As a disciple of Yahshua, it's my desire to bring others to him. HalleluYah!

2 Thess 2:10-14

Shalom in Yahweh

Yohanan

quote:

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quotes by Dave52:
Paul quotes Hosea indicating the Gentiles, who were not Yahweh’s people, are now called “the children of the living God” after being grafted into Israel.

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Granted. But even Paul acknowledges the two houses. Ro 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only (House of Judah), but also of the Gentiles (House of Israel scattered among the nations)?

torah4today wrote: “First question: Has this happened yet in your opinion? If so, where are these innumerable people at?”

quote:

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It has been happening since Cornelius was converted and the innumerable people are the saints since that time. The phrases, “as the sand of the seashore” or “as the dust of the earth” or “as the stars of heaven” all just indicate a large number. Even in our day a crowd of more then 100,000 people is impossible to accurately number. Israel had already reached a number that was considered as large as the sand on the seashore as far back as Joshua.

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Granted.

torah4today wrote: “Next question: Do you see the children of Judah as different people from the children of Israel (prior to them being gathered together after the innumerable people are called the sons of the living El)?”

quote:

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I see “the children of Judah” as the House of Judah or the Jews. And I see the “children of Israel” as the children of the north kingdom or ten tribes. However, Israel can at times mean either all the tribes together including Jews or can sometimes only refer to the ten tribes.

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In the passages we are discussing, "House of Israel" is distinguished from "House of Judah" correct? I know there are times, especially before the split-up of the two houses where they collectively were called "Israel" being that they were all children of the patriarch Israel.

But since that time, would you agree that when we see the phrase "House of Israel" that it refers to the northern tribes and "House of Judah" refers to "the Jews" of the southern kingdom, called "Judah"?

torah4today wrote: “One follow-up question: Do you see a distinction between Judah and Israel and if so, what would be that distinction?”

quote:

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Israel (ten tribes) has been meshed into the Gentiles kingdoms and forgotten her heritage whereas Judah was dispersed amount the Gentiles but not integrated.

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Ok, so what I am getting at, is that "the Jews" of the "House of Judah", AND the scattered peoples of the "House of Israel" are in fact still two separate peoples who will be joined together as one again in the fullness of the New Covenant. "The Jews" will be there too. Yes they will have to accept the Messiah, and they shall. But the scattered peoples known as "the House of Israel" haven't fully accepted the Messiah either over all of these centuries have they?

They have called on a name that they placed upon Him, they did not walk as He walked (i.e. in the Torah) and so on...

Matthew 7:22 “Many shall say to Me in that day, 'Master, Master, have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and done many mighty works in Your Name?’

23 “And then I shall declare to them, ‘I never knew you, depart from Me, you who work lawlessness!’

Let's face it, the vast majority of christians over the past 20 centuries believed the law was "nailed to the cross" or somehow changed and they have committed lawlessness left and right while claiming to believe on the Messiah. That won't cut it. I happen to believe that the majority of christians over these centuries are Ephraim/House of Israel.

And I believe they will come to the Torah, just as "the Jews" will come to the Messiah. They will join together as one nation (Hosea 1:11, Eze. 37:22, etc.) and the New Covenant will commence in full at that time.

That's the gist of how I see it. Yes I may be totally wrong but the scriptures seem plain on these points to my fallible and finite mind.

quote:

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Sorry if I failed to answer all your points. I attempted to but just ran out of time.

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Understood... not a problem.

Shalom,
T4T

Can you look at these three scriptures, and then tell me what you think about Israel and the Gentiles.

Shem/Ex 4:22-23
http://www.paleotimes.org/bible/ot/B02C004.htm#V22

John 10:11-18
http://www.paleotimes.org/bible/nt/B43C010.htm#V11

John 10:25-29
http://www.paleotimes.org/bible/nt/B43C010.htm#V25

Question:

#1 Who is Israel?

#2 Who are the two kinds of sheep?

Shalom in Yahweh

Brother Yohanan

These two scriptures should be read too

HOLY GROUND
Ex 3:5
Acts 7:33

In similar fashion, "Ephraim/House of Israel" will not only come to the Torah, but will come to properly know who the Messiah is (as opposed to the errant traditions of men as they have been doing all these centuries).

The re-joining of the two houses is a major event in the whole scheme of things and I think way too many people sell this event short. Two nations, each currently with part of the truth, comprising a large number of people, will definitively and intimately know YHWH when this happens. There is more hope out there for us than most religionists will have us believe.

As of this age we are in, there has been some "Jews" who have accepted Messiah in some way, and there have been some "Ephraimites (christians) who have practiced Torah in some way, but out of either group, the number is very small in comparison to what will come to pass in the future.

quote:

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Originally posted by Yahwehwitnesses:
Question:

#1 Who is Israel?
#2 Who are the two kinds of sheep?

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Shalom Yahwehwitnesses,

Answer to #1: Israel is YHWH's people, His sheep for which He commissioned a Shepherd, Y'shua haMaschiach.

Answer to #2: There are 3 kinds (sort of).

1. Lost sheep
2. Found sheep, and
3. Wolves in sheep's clothing (which aren't really sheep, but merely masquerade as sheep. You can see them on TV regularly!).

That's the quick answer. Let me ponder it some more and maybe I can better answer you.

Perhaps you have another answer in mind. Please share and do not withold!

I was talking about the two kinds of Sheep of Yahshua, and I forgot to mention the 144,000.

I was also talking about the Holy ground
and Israel is his son, and his people are his sheep, and YHWH in Zion.

Yahshua "the man" allowed the Gentiles [the other sheep] to be saved through him, and the Gentiles at least get to eat the crumbs of the bread. For the Children of Israel are the ones to spread the bread all over the World. Yahshua is the bread and the cornerstone of the foundation of Yahweh.

You might even say the spirit of Israel is a spirit of Yahweh that came down from the heavens with him. Same ones that said "Let us make mankind, and "The man has become like one of us".

Yahshua was always with the them.
He even appeared as an Angel unto some of them, a few times, before he was ever born as a man.

Egypt had a spirit too!

Shalom in Yahweh

Yohanan

Another thought...

I've noticed that even among the christian and/or messianic world over the past several centuries and even right here on this board there are major and widely varying differences of opinion on how one is "saved", who is and who is not saved, or who can be saved, etc., based on various belief systems.

I will enumerate some of them here:

• Only believe in Jesus
  
• Only believe in Y'shua (but not Jesus)
  
• Only believe in Yahshua (but not Y'shua nor Jesus)
  
• Believe (on one of the above or another rendering in some other language) and repent of sin (with no clear definition of sin). Torah observance will make you fall from grace.
  
• Believe (on one of the above, et.al.) and repent of Torah violations and try to start obeying it as best as you can.
  
• Believe (on one of the above, et.al.) and repent of Torah violations and sin no more, period.
  
• Any of the above combinations, and get baptized (in the name of _________). [The name varies, hence the blank line]
  
• Any of the above combinations, and get baptized (in the names of _________, ________, and _________)
  
• Any of the above combinations, plus receive baptism of the (Holy Spirit, Holy Ghost, or Ruach haQodesh) but no tongues evidence is needed.
  
• Any of the above combinations, but speaking in tongues must be manifest or you are not saved.
  
• Only trust in YHWH and hope for mercy.
  
• Say the sinner's prayer.
  

So which is it? Or did I miss some? If I didn't list the correct method for obtaining salvation, someone please add it to the list.

So we don't have a consensus now do we? If we do, I sure can't detect it! Seems each is going his own way, doing what is right in his own eyes in this day and age.

One day, in the fullness of the New Covenant, there will be consensus and total harmony and unity. YHWH will be One with His people as He is One with His Son, our Elder Brother Y'shua.

I agree that many Jews reject or deny certain things written in today's many scriptures, but so do many Christians, Muslim, Buddists, Etc Etc. You might say most people are lost, and very few are going to enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh according to scripture.

These days are like the days of Noah and Lot all over again.

You ask how one is saved?

Well you must be born again.

I THINK JOHN 3:16 SAYS IT ALL AS I SHOW BELOW

Yahshua told us it was the Father in him.
Yahshua always gave the credit to his Father, he even corrected them when they called him good. Yahshua shared his Father with us, so that we might be saved by the Father through his son.

MATT 22:36 Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 And he said unto him, Thou shalt love Yahweh thy Elohim with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the great and first commandment.
39 And a second like unto it is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
40 On these two commandments the whole law hangeth, and the prophets

Yahshua was and is (The Word of YAHWEH) (Rev 19:13 & John 1:14)

The word [believeth/believes/believe] as shown in John 3:16
is strongs# 4100 pisteuo

The word "believes" when in referance to Yahshua, means:

#1 "One who is committed unto Yahshua".
Otherwise "One who is committed unto The Word of Yahweh".

#2 "Commit to (one's personal) trust in Yahshua "The Word of Yahweh"

Therefor John 3:16 is correct. If one trusts [The Word of Yahweh] and is personally committed to [The Word] then they will not perish and have everlasting life. The Kingdom [The Word = The Father] is within you. (Luke 17:20-21)

Also remember that the Word that Yahshua spoke was the Father in him (John 14:10)

My big question is this >

The Kingdom of Yahweh does not come with observation, for the Kingdom is within you.

The New Jerusalem does come down from Heaven.

There will be a New Heaven and a New Earth, and a Heaven on Earth for one thousand years "whatever that adds up to?", as one day being a thousand years, but is it everlasting?

It also says: On Earth as it is in Heaven.

Is the Kingdom of Yahweh and Heaven on Earth two differant places?

Shalom in Yahweh

Brother Yohanan

quote:

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Originally posted by Yahwehwitnesses:

You ask how one is saved?

Well you must be born again.

I THINK JOHN 3:16 SAYS IT ALL AS I SHOW BELOW...

...Therefor John 3:16 is correct. If one trusts [The Word of Yahweh] and is personally committed to [The Word] then they will not perish have everlasting life. The Kingdom [The Word = The Father] is within you. (Luke 17:20-21)

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Shalom Yahwehwitnesses,

Thanks for your response.

Many people will disagree with you as you no doubt know.

As I pointed out above, some will say that you must repent (and there are a lot of definitions of what that entails), be baptized (and there are many definitions of what a proper baptism is), and/or be baptized in the Ruach (some say with evidence of tongues, some say no evidence of tongues needed).

If I took a survey of just ten people from this forum alone, I bet I would get at least 9 different answers to the question, "how does one get saved".

And I would probably get as many differing responses from the question "What is the New Covenant". Evidence of this keeps piling in.

But you are now on the record as to what you believe, and again thanks for your input.

Shalom and YHWH bless,
T4T

Many people will disgree with me!

If I can't prove what I say from scripture, they should all disgree with me, or I stand to correct myself, for The Word is my Judge.

If what I say is in scripture, then they disagree with the WORD, not me.

Yahshua did not come here to bring peace.

Most people do, any will continue to disagree with the Word, and that's why very few will enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh.

Wooo to them for following their own understandings and traditions of men, and admirations of earthly things.

I see my brothers kissing walls in Israel, I see some of my sisters praying to statues in Romanized churches, while others are kissing the feet of the so-called Statue of Peter.

Where is their faith?

1 CORINTHIANS 3:16 Do you not know that you are a Dwelling Place of Elohim and that the Spirit of Elohim dwells in you?

In this world most people are against me, or should I say they don't like what they see and hear that is in me?

Try teaching your beliefs in a Catholic or Christian church, and see what happens.

Blessed are those who watch, and know his spirit and voice. Saved are those who pass through the fire on judgement day.

Shalom in Yahweh

Brother Yohanan

quote:

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Originally posted by Yahwehwitnesses:

If I can't prove what I say from scripture, they should all disgree with me, or I stand to correct myself, for The Word is my Judge.

If what I say is in scripture, then they disagree with the WORD, not me.

Yahshua did not come here to bring peace.

Most people do, any will continue to disagree with the Word, and that's why very few will enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh.

Wooo to them for following their own understandings and traditions of men, and admirations of earthly things.

---

Shalom Yahwehwitnesses,

I'm not disputing what you say, nor trying to pick you apart or start anything whatsoever, please understand that.

But nevertheless, most of the ones who hold different views will say the exact same things that you said above.

In my hypothetical survey, if I asked each participant if what he believed regarding "getting saved" was "in the scripture" I would bet 100% of them will answer yes.

They likewise may say that anyone who holds to a different viewpoint is merely "following their own understandings and traditions of men", etc.

It's this sort of thing that leads to the endless bickering we see on this forum. Everyone thinks they are right and the others are wrong.

Again, I'm not quarreling with you at all here. I'm only pointing out that we are not in unity yet.

In the fulness of the New Covenant, there will be multitudes in unity. I long for that day. No more bickering and mudslinging like we find here on this forum! I really long for that day!

quote:

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Yahwehwitnesses wrote: “Galatians 4:4 But when the completion of the time came, Elohim sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under Torah.”

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The Greek word translated “born” here is “ginomai” and is translated be, come to pass, be made, be done, come, become. It is the same word used in John 1:14 and translated “made”. Are you saying John 1:14 should be “And the Word [was] born flesh” even though the word translated “born” is always “gennao” and is translated begat, be born, bear, gender, bring forth, be delivered.

quote:

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Yahwehwitnesses wrote: “Yahweh sent forth his son, and from the heavens.”

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Ps 78:45 He (Yahweh vs.41) sent divers sorts of flies among them, which devoured them; and frogs, which destroyed them.

Jn 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name [was] John.

Was Yahshua at Yahweh’s side in heaven when he was sent? We know the flies and frogs and John were not at Yahweh’s side in heaven when they were sent. Sent from heaven, sent from God or sent from above all mean that the authority for these actions or messengers originated from Yahweh in heaven above, as can be seen in Jn 3:27 and 19:11.

Yahwehwitnesses wrote: “Yahshua was the first born of all creation, and the Last Adam.”

Isa 65:17 Behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Adam was the first of this creation but Yahshua was the first born of the new creation Yahweh has begun to creat.

BORN AGAIN
Ro 1:3 Concerning his Son Yahshua Messiah our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.

In verse 3 Yahshua was born according to the flesh because Mary (descendant of David) was his mother. But he had to have a father too. Yahshua said, “I came out from God. I came forth from the Father” (Jn 16:27). Yahshua came from the loins of Yahweh. “That which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost” (Mt 1:20).

In verse 4 Yahshua was declared the son of God according to the Spirit, but let’s not forget to add the rest of the verse, “By the resurrection from the dead.” This declaration was not necessarily made at his first birth or at his baptism but at his second birth, his resurrection.

Ps 2:7 I will declare the decree: Yahweh hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

How do we know this declaration Paul mentioned in Ro 3:4 is the same as Ps 2:7 and Heb 1:5, and is at his second birth?

Ac 13:32 We declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Yahshua again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

The promise made in the Psalm to the fathers was fulfilled to us as he was resurrected, born again, 3 days and nights after dying, Yahweh said, “This day have I begotten thee.” So look twice before you insist, “I have begotten thee” always refers to Bethlehem.

Now Yahshua was born twice, once in a manger and the second time in a tomb. He is, “The firstborn of every creature” (Col 1:15), “the beginning, the firstborn from the dead” (Col 1:18), “the beginning of the creation of God” (Rev 3:14). The first time Yahshua was born he was born a lowly, weak, poor, humble servant. The second time he was born, he was born a great, powerful, rich king.

I know your not trying to pick at me, nor I at you. I don't see any mud slinging. I am firm on holding on to the truth.

You wrote: But nevertheless, most of the ones who hold different views will say the exact same things that you said above.

My Reply: I agree, however most peoples view points are not based on scripture. EliYah says (Heavy use of scripture to back up your words are encouraged) and (lengthy posts without scripture are frowned upon).

I know others hold different views.

One of the problems is that certain people are using KJV and other Romanized deluted scriptures to try to make their view points stick. Some people try to show me Latin translations and meanings for words in the OT. Like the word Lucifer for example, how did the manage to get that into Isaiah?

Yes everybody wants to teach and that is great intent, but many peoples teachings can often do more harm than good when they no not what they are saying. In all truth there are to many wannabe teachers now days, and a whole bunch of false teachings going on all over the world.

Yahshua did not pick up the stones, it was the others that didn't understand him at first.

I have spent many years studying, and I too will always have much to learn. I expect to be corrected by scripture when I am wrong, as I continue to seek the truth.

People have shown me in the past where my views were wrong. I made the change to except what scripture says. But can they?

I suppose that depends on what scriptures people are reading from now days, and what their true intent is.

Only Yahweh knows all the truth!

Shalom in Yahweh

Brother Yohanan

Truly, hard-headed preachers who have been indoctrinated by other people don't seem to comprehend much of Scriptures! Can't blame them, though.

I can see from this forum that you are being enlightened by the Holy Spirit in the same manner that I am, and I thank JHVH for that. I, too, believe that through the door that is Jehoshua Messiah, we have been grafted to the Commonwealth of Jisrael (PHYSICALLY) under the tribe of Ephraim. One cannot enter into the New Covenant unless he/she becomes part of Jisrael. I also believe that the New Covenant has not been accepted by the entire Commonwealth of Jisrael at this time (all twelve tribes), but will accept it in the future, when King Jehoshua returns. Only a minority of Jisrael is under this New Covenant, and those who have accepted it through water baptism shall become first-fruits spiritual beings at the start of the Millennium--this being a REWARD for complying with the requirements of the New Covenant.

To support the belief that the entire Commonwealth of Jisrael--including the Jews of today--shall accept the New Covenant in the future, let me quote the Apostle Paul in Romans 11:15:

"For if their [Jews'] rejection IS the reconciliation of the world, what WILL their [Jews'] acceptance BE but life from the dead?"

The key words here are:
(1) rejection, (2) "IS", (3) reconciliation
(4) acceptance, (5) "WILL" / "BE", (6) life from the dead

We all know that the Jews have rejected Jehoshua of Nazareth as the Messiah and mediator of the New Covenant. We also know that the gentiles have been reconciled with Jisrael and JHVH because the Covenant was passed to them (lost tribes and gentiles) instead. Truly, as it is happening today, the Jews' rejection is our reconciliation!

However, it does not end there yet. Paul says that there will be a time when the Jews shall accept Jehoshua together with the New Covenant. Not only that, when the Jews finally agree to the New Covenant, people shall be resurrected from the dead. Truly, in the future, the Jews' acceptance will be life from the dead!

When we take into account the prophecies of Ezekiel, the bones of the people of Jisrael--including the Jews--will be physically restored to life BEFORE JHVH gives them a New Covenant (the same covenant given to the first-fruits). This implies that, apart from the SPIRITUAL resurrection of the first-fruits, there will be two separate PHYSICAL resurrections at the start of the Millennium, one for Jisrael, and the other for the gentiles (non-Christians/Ephraimites). Of course, because eternal life is a reward of the New Covenant, these resurrected people of the flesh shall have the chance to become immortal spiritual beings as well, just like the first-fruits--perhaps after the millenium.

I believe it is important that we know our tribal affiliation to Jisrael so that we would know our place in prophecy. One thing I am sharing with you now is my understanding that while we (Christians) are still in our fleshly bodies, we belong to Ephraim. However, when we are reborn as spiritual beings at the start of the millennium to reign with King Jehoshua, we shall be grafted to the Tribe of Joseph. Please study carefully the blessings of Jacob and Moses to Joseph. You would do well to analyze the implication of Jacob adopting the sons of Joseph. Who is Joseph being alluded to? Could Joseph be the olive tree mentioned in Romans? In one of my previous posts, I showed some verses in Scriptures which can help you understand this concept. This concept bodes well with Ezekiel 37:19, where there are actually three, not two, groups of Jisraelites mentioned.

The key to understanding the New Covenant is prophecy. It also involves our LOVE for the brethren of Jehoshua Messiah in the flesh--the Jews. I love the Jews, and the rest of Jisrael for that matter, because JHVH loves them.

Let us pray for the unification of Jisrael.

All glory belongs to JHVH.

You wrote:The Greek word translated “born” here is “ginomai” and is translated be, come to pass, be made, be done, come, become. It is the same word used in John 1:14 and translated “made”. Are you saying John 1:14 should be “And the Word [was] born flesh” even though the word translated “born” is always “gennao” and is translated begat, be born, bear, gender, bring forth, be delivered.

My Reply:
The Hebrew word "born" is #03205 yalad
Means: to bear, bring forth, beget

The Latin word "born" is #1080 gennao
Means: begat, be born, bear, bring forth.

I don't see where John 1:14 has the word "born" written within it.

John 1:14 says: And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.

YAHSHUA WAS THE FIRST BORN OF ALL CREATION Colossians 1:15 & Hebrews 1:4-6

Yahshua is the beginning and the end, the "First born" and the "Last Adam" (Rev 22:13 & 1 Corinthians 15:44-47)

If you want to see more verses on this, please read my post at
http://www.eliyah.com/forum2/Forum10/HTML/000292.html

As there are way to many to post again.

Shalom in Yahweh

Broother Yohanan