The opinions/attitudes expressed on this forum are not necessarily those of EliYah or of Yahweh's people as a whole.

  Forums at EliYah's Home Page
  Scripture Discussion Forum
  What is the "New Covenant"? (Page 11)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone!
This topic is 13 pages long:   1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13 
next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   What is the "New Covenant"?
Eugenie

Posts: 271
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 03-01-2003 03:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eugenie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sometime in the past (almost) 5 years I came across this (a teachting by SBS777):


7. The New Covenant

We hear a lot these days about the 'new covenant;' about how the Most High, supposedly, found fault with His laws and instructed His Son to nail them to the cross! Have you ever wondered what the 'new covenant' is; and what its requirements are? Why is it called the new covenant? Who are the parties concerned? What's new about it? Let us now find out. To begin with I will read the passages which tell of the 'new covenant' Jer.31: 31: Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put MY LAW in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34: And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
These thoughts are taken up by the writer of Hebrews where we find these words about the 'new covenant:' Heb.8: 7: For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8: For FINDING FAULT WITH THEM, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL and with the HOUSE OF JUDAH:
9: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10: For this is the covenant that I will make with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.


From these passages we learn the following facts:
Both the Old and the New Covenants are between Jehovah and the Houses of Israel and Judah.
In other words, in both covenants the 'parties' are the same.
In both the Old and the New Covenant the 'same laws' are involved; albeit in the New Covenant they are NOT written on stone tablets but on the true believer's mind and heart.
I repeat, the 'same perfect laws' are the basis of the New Covenant. One cannot improve on perfection anyway.
Yahweh didn't find fault with His law, which He tells us is perfect (Psalm 19:7); but with His people - "WITH THEM;" that is, with the 'half-converted Israelites' who didn't want to obey the Almighty's law in the first place.
That when the new covenant is fully implemented, believers will not need instruction from each other, because everyone - from the youngest to the oldest - will know the LORD. This is not the case at the present time.(February 1999)
The New Covenant is new in that it is made with a 'new type of Israelite,' a truly converted individual whose heart and mind is receptive to Yahweh's law; the same perfect law which He gave to ancient Israel in the days of Moses.

I Repeat:
Both covenants are made between Jehovah and Israel.
In the New Covenant Yahweh's law is inscribed on the true believer's heart and mind.
There is no change in the law. The only change is the place where that law is written.
In the Old Covenant the the Almighty's law was written on tablets of stone.
In the New Covenant it is written on the true believer's mind and is reflected in obedience.
In the New Covenant the blood of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, cleanses the repentant sinner. Though farm animals (lambs, rams, goats and bulls) are not used in the New Covenant, the law which requires a repentant sinner to approach God's throne with 'faith in the blood of a Lamb' still applies. Only now, it is faith in the blood of Yeshua the Lamb of God!
For further information see SBS booklet Animal Sacrifices... Are they Necessary?
Strange as it may seem, the New Covenant is not yet fully implemented. We know this from the fact that believers - young and old - still need instruction. But when the New Covenant is fully operational then "they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest."

Taken from: http://atschool.eduweb.co.uk/sbs777/snotes/note1105.html#newcovenant

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

brmarty

Posts: 112
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 03-01-2003 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for brmarty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Shalom to All,

Hi Eugene,

I was wondering whether or not you support this view you have presented. In my view, it cannot fit for the firstfruits. Have you been keeping up with this thread by chance?

May YHWH bless and keep all who seek His Face,

your brother marty

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Eugenie

Posts: 271
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 03-01-2003 03:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eugenie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Brmarty wrote:
--------------------------------------------
I was wondering whether or not you support this view you have presented.

# Brmarty: I am considering supporting it. Added on 04 March: I should have stated that I am pondering whether I am to support it yes or no.


Brmarty wrote:
--------------------------------------------
In my view, it cannot fit for the firstfruits.

# Brmarty: I know.


Brmarty wrote:
--------------------------------------------
Have you been keeping up with this thread by chance?

# Brmarty: Yes, I have.

QUESTION TO YOU BRMARTY: Do you know Yashanet.com?

Shalom, EugenIe

[This message has been edited by Eugenie (edited 03-04-2003).]

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

brmarty

Posts: 112
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 03-01-2003 06:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for brmarty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Shalom to All,

Hi Eugenie,

No. I am not familiar with that website. I am a freelancer.:0) I am affiliated with no group or organization. I think of myself and family as "followers of YAHSHUA".

"KJV John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:"

I have fellowshipped with many groups over my lifetime. I find that it is very difficult to find brethren who do not want to be "told what to do" or "preached to". Many are quite comfortable in their "churches" and "organizations".

I only hope that YAHWEH will lead them to the "freedom in YAHSHUA" that He has led me and my family too. This walk is all about a one-on-one relationship with the Father through His Son. Only His will do we strive to perform, not that of any "pastor","minister" or "overseer".

In my view, there are no "positions" or "offices" of rulership over the body of YAHSHUA, except that of the Father through His Son. We are all "servants" of our Father and followers of the "perfect" example of YAHSHUA our Master, Saviour and Elder Brother.

The best we can do in this life is pray that the Father's will be done in our Lives, and serve as examples for our Brethren through unfeigned love and faith.

"KJV 1 Timothy 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

KJV 1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:"

I have no other agenda. I pray that YAHWEH helps me overcome the carnal spirit in me that I war with daily. I know that my understandings can be fallable and that there is still much for me to learn about YAHWEH. I know that I am nothing without YAHWEH'S SPIRIT in me, and that even then I must struggle daily to overcome sin in many forms.

This life is not easy, as some preach. But, in my view, there is no other way to eternal life except by this walk. I also know that I have done nothing to deserve this opportunity, but only by the grace of YAHWEH have I been called.

I love to study and I want to spend as much time as I can encouraging other brethren to study and search the scriptures for themselves. Trust in YAHWEH for understanding and know that men are fallable. Our understandings and faith should be a work in progress which we must admit to ourselves and fully acknowledge will never be perfect.

How do you view the "new covenant" yourself, Eugenie?

May YAHWEH bless and keep all who seek his Face,

your brother marty

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Daron

Posts: 2
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 03-02-2003 02:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daron     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Shalom

[This message has been edited by Daron (edited 03-02-2003).]

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Eugenie

Posts: 271
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 03-02-2003 06:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eugenie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Brother Marty,

Thank you for your lengthy reply which explains a lot. Marty I haven't made up my mind yet which explanation on the NC to choose.... it will come in due time.

Brother Daron,

Both Gentile believers and Jewish believers here are posting here.

May YAHVEH bless and keep all who seek Him, Eugenie.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Daron

Posts: 2
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 03-02-2003 10:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daron     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Shalom

[This message has been edited by Daron (edited 03-02-2003).]

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

torah4today

Posts: 1113
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 03-02-2003 11:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for torah4today     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Daron:
Hello,

I came here and read some of these posts.
Are you people Jews and Gentiles?


I like to ask Torah4today if you feel that Gentiles are subject to all the laws of the bible NT and OT?

It's my understanding that Jesus dies for everyones sins.. Isn't that right?

Sincerely,

Daron Adams

[This message has been edited by Daron (edited 03-02-2003).]


Shalom Daron,

Some of the laws in the "Old Testatment" (also known as the Tanak which is an acronym for the hebrew words for Torah, Prophets, and Writings) are binding on everyone, Jew or Gentile whether or not they have entered into any covenant. They are the moral laws. Everyone knows they are not to kill or steal or commit adultery or lie with beast, etc.

Then there are laws which pertain to the temple sacrifices. They cannot be accomplished obviously without a temple so neither "Jew" nor "Gentile" can keep them. Notwithstanding the possibility that one way of looking at the future might indicate a third temple is not going to be rebuilt and utilized during the millenium, I think it will be built and the sacrificial services will be resumed. The Levites will be a tribe of restored Israel and I figure they will still have their duties to perform seeing as how they have no land inheritance.

The clean food laws are for everyone I believe. YHWH's laws are beneficial for mankind to keep. He gives us "instructions" and "teachings" (which is the real meaning of Torah) for us to live long healthy lives. He gives us Sabbath because we must rest. Why would we even want to turn down a blessing from YHWH? The Sabbath was made for man.

By the way, I don't think the Jew/Gentile thing is so black and white. There are members of all of the tribes of Israel including Judah, scattered throughout the world in every tongue and people on earth today. You may think you are a gentile and you would be correct since really the word means "nation" and even the House of Israel and the House of Judah are nations or are scattered in the nations.

In the future, one who is not of one of the tribes of Israel can still accept the New Covenant and be grafted into the commonwealth of Israel. They would be bound to the Torah, but the Torah would be melded into their hearts and minds and would be a real joy to keep.

Y'shua died for everyone's sins. However that is only part of the equation. Repentance is a major part. James' letter says if we say we abide in Messiah that we should walk as He walked. Of course we all know that He walked in the Torah perfectly so I see nothing wrong with trying to emulate that. Even Paul sacrificed at the alter after he was converted and I doubt he thinks he fell from grace for doing that.

Sorry for the long answer but I don't think it is so cut and dried as most people would like. As usual I say here now that I could be wrong on this but it is my current viewpoint. We have much yet to be shown to us. Feel free to state what you have been shown so far and we'll discuss further.

Shalom in YHWH,
T4T

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

torah4today

Posts: 1113
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 03-02-2003 11:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for torah4today     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Daron:
Is this what it looks like when someone finds out the truth?


LOL

That has been my experience!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Eugenie

Posts: 271
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 03-02-2003 12:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eugenie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Question 1


Why did the Apostle Paul involve himself in animal sacrifices? (Acts 21:23-26)

Answer:

Paul was often accused of breaking Yahweh's commandments. Even to this day many Christians believe that Paul taught the abolition of God's law. Nothing is further from the truth. Paul and the early Apostles were all Israelites who kept Yahweh's law and taught others to obey it. In the incident recorded in Acts 21 the elders in Jerusalem were anxious to dispel any rumours that Paul was a law-breaker. To be sure he had often tried to explain the real purpose of Yahweh's law, 'things hard to understand' as the Apostle Peter called them in 2 Peter 3:14-16, but Paul never taught disobedience. He taught:
That the law is a signpost, identifying error. (Rom.3:20)
That the law is a school teacher, pointing us to Christ. (Gal.3:24)
That believers are not under the death penalty of the law; but under grace and mercy: and should lead obedient lives. (Rom.6:1-16)
And that animal sacrifices could never cleanse a person's conscience, whereas Christ's blood can. (Heb.9:13-14)
But all this did not mean that Paul was attacking God's law. Indeed Paul said Yahweh's law was perfect, holy, just and good.
Romans 7:12 "Therefore the law is in itself holy, and the commandment is holy, just and good."

verse 14 "We know that the law is spiritual ..."

Therefore in order to dispel any doubts the Jews may have held concerning his obedience, Paul joined four others in a Nazarite dedication service. This service is fully described in Numbers chapter 6.
The service involved:

Taking a vow of dedication (separation)
Not drinking wine or strong drink or even eating anything from the vine for the period of the vow.
Not cutting one's hair, but shaving it off after the period of the vow had expired.
Not coming into contact with any dead body all the days of separation.
And an offering of two doves and a lamb to signal the end of the vow.
Paul joined in this dedication ceremony - not because he was a Nazarite or had grown his hair long for many weeks, not because he had been defiled by a dead body in any way, but for one reason alone:
Acts 21:24 "... that all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee - are nothing: but that thou thyself walkest orderly and keepest the law."

Whilst considering these facts also remember that
The Temple in Jerusalem was still standing and
The Aaronic Priesthood was still officiating; so sacrifices in the Temple were not illegal even though the reality to which those sacrifices pointed (Christ's death) had occurred.
The morning and evening sacrifices were also still being made.
Christ's early disciples (mostly Jews) were still visiting the Temple each day and witnessing the daily sacrifice.
Then came that incredible accusation that Paul was teaching disobedience to Yahweh's law! The Apostles were stunned, because they all knew that the charge was totally false. They knew that Paul had been explaining the deeper lessons of Yahweh's law; just as we are attempting to do in this booklet. And here he was being accused of heresy! What were they to do? How could they convince an extremely religious population that Paul was in fact an obedient Israelite? How could they do this without entering into endless explanations, arguments and possible uproar? What were they to do?
They found the answer in the Nazarite vow. Bear in mind that no law would be violated if Paul joined in this dedication service, for the Temple and the authorised priesthood were both present. Indeed much would be gained by a silent public display ( a bald head) of obedience. So Paul agreed to their plan and re-dedicated himself to God along with the others.

That is all we should read from this incident: That the Apostle Paul joined others in a dedication service to dispel any doubts that he was a law-breaker. In view of these facts, let no misguided Gentile offer unauthorised animal sacrifices elsewhere on earth. Without a Temple and without a Priesthood even the Jews do not presume to offer sacrifices: how much less should Gentiles who believe in the Saviour as the Lamb of God.

Taken from: http://atschool.eduweb.co.uk/sbs777/vital/sacrific.html#q1

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

torah4today

Posts: 1113
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 03-02-2003 01:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for torah4today     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
People need to realize that not all sacrifices were for the atonement of sin.

Also consider that Abraham made sacrifices under the Melchisidek priesthood without benefit of a temple nor the Levitical priesthood.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Eugenie

Posts: 271
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 03-02-2003 02:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eugenie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well said Torah4today! Blessings, Eugenie.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Dick

Posts: 247
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-03-2003 04:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Peace to you Brethren T4T,

You said:

People need to realize that not all sacrifices were for the atonement of sin.

Also consider that Abraham made sacrifices under the Melchisidek priesthood without benefit of a temple nor the Levitical priesthood.

I also do believe that, with the Temple of JHVH in place, animal sacrifices shall commence anew in the Millennial reign of the Messiah. The book of Ezekiel describes the activities in detail. Many will question this belief, and argue that the sacrifice of the Messiah on the cross/stake is effective for all eternity.

I am deeply contemplating on the idea that the Messiah's sacrifice may only be applied to the first-fruits. Resurrected physical beings in the millennium shall be required to offer animal sacrifices to atone for their "future" sins. Can you comment on this?

I also would like to know the reasons why you view the Book of Revelations as divinely-inspired (I don't), considering the fact that you believe that all who accept the Messiah become part of Jisrael. How do you reconcile your stand on physical Jisrael with the Book of Revelations, where it is said that only 144,000 Jisraelites shall be saved, and that the saved multitude shall be non-Jisraelis (gentiles)? This would certainly require a different thread, but I believe that this is relevant to the topic at hand--the New Covenant.

All glory belongs to JHVH.


[This message has been edited by Dick (edited 03-03-2003).]

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Bondservant

Posts: 105
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 03-03-2003 10:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bondservant     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just curious why you use the J instead of the Y in the letters of the Fathers Name?

I guess you are aware that the letter J did not come into any language until the 17th century? Look it up in a dictionary it is there for all to read. If you want to continue using the J that is fine with me.
Blessings to All!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

torah4today

Posts: 1113
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 03-03-2003 12:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for torah4today     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dick:
I am deeply contemplating on the idea that the Messiah's sacrifice may only be applied to the first-fruits. Resurrected physical beings in the millennium shall be required to offer animal sacrifices to atone for their "future" sins. Can you comment on this?

I also would like to know the reasons why you view the Book of Revelations as divinely-inspired (I don't), considering the fact that you believe that all who accept the Messiah become part of Jisrael. How do you reconcile your stand on physical Jisrael with the Book of Revelations, where it is said that only 144,000 Jisraelites shall be saved, and that the saved multitude shall be non-Jisraelis (gentiles)? This would certainly require a different thread, but I believe that this is relevant to the topic at hand--the New Covenant.

All glory belongs to JHVH.


Shalom Dick,

I still think Y'shua's blood will always be the blood of the New Covenant so anyone in the future who desires to enter into that covenant in my opinion will do so by His blood. Maybe people of the nations outside of Israel who do not enter into the New Covenant will do atonement sacrifices. I really am at a loss to do anything more than speculate on that however.

As to Revelation, I understand where you are coming from. It's a very misunderstood book to say the least and it's no wonder.

There are a lot of things in Revelation that seem to not line up with the prophets of the Tanak but at this time I attribute that to my lack of understanding, to the possibility that some of it involves things to happen well toward the end of the so called millenium rule, and to the possibility that it is in large part a sealed prophecy which may not be understood until it is fulfilled.

As to Israel, I think the mention of the multitudes from all nations is Israel since Israelites were dispersed into all nations. The nations are actually receiving a blessing from this punishment of the Israelites by sharing in their bloodline heritage and by other blessings as well. I don't pretend to know all there is with regard to this subject, only studying it as you and others are, and doing some speculation in lieu of making absolute pronouncements. Somehow though, Israel is pulled back out of the nations and brings many from these nations with her. YHWH will have to sort out the tribes. I think the 144,000 will be heads of the tribes that those coming out of the nations will be assimilated into. Again, buyer beware, this is my speculation.

YHWH bless,
T4T

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged


This topic is 13 pages long:   1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13 

All times are ET (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | EliYah's Home Page

Please read the disclaimer. If you see any violations of forum guidelines, please contact the moderator.

Powered by Infopop www.infopop.com © 2000
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47e

Ephesians 4:29 - "Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is
good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers."