Hi YAHWEHWITNESSES,

You are doing nothing more than forming your own personal understandings based on same scriptures that I and the rest on this forum are reading. They are your personal interpretations as are mine, as are everyone's.

Just because you say "I am quoting scripture" does not in any way, shape or form mean that your "interpretations" are right. Your inability to continue to not recognize the fact that you may be wrong in your understandings says everything to me.

I am absolutely not interested in anyone's views or opinions who feel that because they are quoting scripture, they are absolutely right in their interpretations of those scriptures and anyone else's interpretations are wrong.

The Scribes and Pharisees spent a whole lot of time quoting scriptures too. Unfortunately, they did not understand the spiritual applications of those scriptures to the extent that they did not even recognize YAHSHUA as being the Son of YAH.

So, that record you are playing with the same old self righteous tune on it, needs to be broken.

Hi T4T, I, again, wish to continue the discussion on the "new convenant". Did you read my posting about the Revelation Time period of the Seals and the handing out of the white robes? I was wondering what your thoughts were on that idea.

quote:

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Originally posted by brmarty:
Hi T4T, I, again, wish to continue the discussion on the "new convenant". Did you read my posting about the Revelation Time period of the Seals and the handing out of the white robes? I was wondering what your thoughts were on that idea.

May YAHWEH bless and keep all who seek His Face,

your brother marty

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Shalom Brother Marty,

I haven't read it. What thread is it in?

Thanks for getting back on track to the topic at hand. I was about to abandon it but it looks like we can continue on with it now.

What do you think of that passage in Hosea about being raised up in the third day, and following on to know YHWH?

Shabbat Shalom and YHWH bless,
T4T

I found my posting on page 7 that I referred too. I am sorry for missing your posting with the Hosea references.

I have to admit that I have been distracted by other postings, if you know what I mean. (it is awfully hard for me to participate in any serious discussion of the scriptures with someone who basically takes the position that his or her's interpretations are correct. I think I have gone to great lengths to state before all that my understandings are just that, my understandings. They may or may not be absolutely correct. I enjoy discussing with others who feel the same way. There will be times when we just have to agree to disagree in love. But to blantantly tell someone they are wrong and without knowledge because their interpretations do not agree with the ones they hold is unexcusable. That is clearly the wrong spirit and the wrong way to go about sharing with others)

I believe part of my answer will be covered in that posting on page 7 to your question of reference in Hosea.

If not, I can certainly ellaborate further.

quote:

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Originally posted by brmarty:
Shalom T4T,

I found my posting on page 7 that I referred too. I am sorry for missing your posting with the Hosea references.

I have to admit that I have been distracted by other postings, if you know what I mean. (it is awfully hard for me to participate in any serious discussion of the scriptures with someone who basically takes the position that his or her's interpretations are correct. I think I have gone to great lengths to state before all that my understandings are just that, my understandings. They may or may not be absolutely correct. I enjoy discussing with others who feel the same way. There will be times when we just have to agree to disagree in love. But to blantantly tell someone they are wrong and without knowledge because their interpretations do not agree with the ones they hold is unexcusable. That is clearly the wrong spirit and the wrong way to go about sharing with others)

I believe part of my answer will be covered in that posting on page 7 to your question of reference in Hosea.

If not, I can certainly ellaborate further.

your brother marty

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Shalom Marty,

Ok, yes I did read that, and as I recall I have a pretty similar perception but maybe not exactly... I'll go over it again tonight after I get home and comment later.

Yes, I too was distracted. I hate being distracted by pettyness when I am involved in serious study. It grates on me.

I am much like you and I think that's why we get along so well. I (like you) only hold that these are my current understandings and alway admit that I might be under a veil of deception. Which is another reason I hold that there is great hope ahead in the fullness of the New Covenant when deception will be a thing of past (for the most part...remember satan will be released one more time to deceive the nations).

I can discuss things with anyone except those who think they are perfect in their understandings. They remind me of the line in some old movie "he's a legend in his own mind". But people will be people. None of us are perfect (at least I don't think so).... YET.

YHWH richly bless,
T4T

Wow... let me share some thoughts that have come up. Maybe merely rantings of a deceived man? Perhaps.

It's good to discuss these things with you brother, you help to inspire me to look deeper and continue to find and dispose of falsehood whenever I can discern it. Although I frequently admit to being deceived, I do believe I am less deceived now than I was a year ago, and so forth.

Ok, let me answer your points with my thoughts and we'll take it from there.

Br. Marty:
Let's look at this verse for a moment a makes some observations,

"KJV Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; "

1. Immediately prior to this verse in this chapter, the 144,000 humans have just been sealed at the opening of the Sixth Seal.

2. I believe this great multitude to be part of the Firstfruits

Me:
Maybe, but maybe not...

Br. Marty:
3. Notice this comment, "of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues,". Interesting that the verse did not state "Spiritual Israel" or even make any notation to "Israel" whatsoever.

Me:
No mention of "Spiritual Israel" here or elsewhere in the bible, agreed. However, Israel was scattered into all nations and became "not His people" (Hos 1:9)

Hos 1:4 And YHWH said unto him, Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel.

The House of Israel would cease. Maybe that's why "Israel" is not mentioned in Rev 7:9? "Israel" is a people who lose their heritage and identity, being scattered into all other nations. Now they are identified as being people from all these tribes and tongues for indeed that is what became of the "House of Israel".

Br. Marty:
Okay, let's examine the following verses in the same chapter,

Me:
Ok, but let me interject some play by play commentary if I may!

Br. Marty (Rev quote):
"KJV Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Me:
Notice how these came out of great tribulation. The tribulation is over. They obviously are now partakers in the New Covenant, but when did this happen? Could it have been immediately after great tribulation?

Br. Marty (con't. Rev quote)
15 Therefore are they before the throne of YAHWEH, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and YAHWEH shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."

Me:
Definitely partakers of the blessed New Covenant, but again, this is after great tribulation.

Br. Marty:
Now, how can this multitude be serving YAHWEH at His throne before the 7th Trump which we have always identified being the catalyst by which the First Resurrection occurs,

Me:
Possibly one of two ways that I can immediately think of to answer you here (granting that your view may be the correct one, YHWH knows) and here goes.

1. Maybe the chronologies we have grown up with have been flawed from the beginning of our father's understandings and we have merely inherited false understanding. Perhaps the 7th trump happens much later than has been supposed.

Here is one verse that may confirm such a crazy idea:

Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of YHWH should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

After the 7th trumpet, the mystery of YHWH will be completed. This could imply that the final rebellion by the unchained satan has already been put down and YHWH announces the completion of the whole mysterious plan. I'm only thinking out loud here so don't pin me to anything just yet. Many ideas need to be hashed out and I admit this one I haven't hashed out yet.

2. It could be an example of a "parenthetical" whereby "parenthetically" the scene is continued on past the immediate and present tense context of the following verses.

A potential paraphrase might be: They came out of great tribulation (and some time afterward went before YHWH's throne as His people, entering into a New Covenant with Him, serving night and day, and so on, etc.).

The parenthetical part may not be in the immediate time context and could be referring to later events.

Those are two possibilities to me until they can be unquestionably eliminated.

Br. Marty (quote 1 Thess):
"KJV 1 Thessalonians 4:16 For YAHSHUA himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of YAHWEH: and the dead in YAHSHUA shall rise first"

However, if we go back a chapter to chapter 6, we find the following verses,

"KJV Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw UNDER THE ALTAR the souls of them that were slain for the word of YAHWEH, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O MASTER, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And WHITE ROBES were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. "

This action occurs in the 5th Seal time period. Okay, is it possible that these Firstfruits in Heaven, and "UNDER THE ALTAR" are in some spiritual state allowing them to serve the Father at that time?

Me:
It doesn't say they weren't serving YHWH at this time. They were at rest, sleeping. They were still dead I think and they didn't literally speak. They are awaiting resurrection.

It seems that there are three groups mentioned here:

1. the souls under the alter which seems to be the elect who lived and died up to the times of great tribulation,

2. the 144,000 who are called firstfruits unto YHWH and the Lamb and who are undefiled by women (harlot religions) as described in Rev 14:4 and who seem maybe to be YHWH's way of preserving the bloodline of the tribes with 12,000 of each tribe being sealed, and

3. those who come out of and after the tribulation from all nations, who may be Israelites, unsaved and scattered and punished for millenia who now have just been cleansed by the blood of Y'shua and who enter into the New Covenant.

Br. Marty:
Remember, "and the dead in YAHSHUA shall rise first:" could simply meant that those under the altar who have just been given white robes, have now been allowed to "arise" from their place of haven with the Father and Son, and join YAHSHUA returning to the earth.

Me:
See I don't think that the ones under the alter are the same group as the ones who go through the tribulation. They are brethren however:

Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest (they remain dead) yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled (at the later time known as great tribulation).

Maybe the three groups I pointed out above can be labeled as 1. The Elect, 2. The Firstfruits (144,000), and 3. The Great Harvest. Again, just thinking out loud here.

Br. Marty:
(I, as well as many others, have always taken this verse literally, without allowing for this interpretation. Obviously, that was what we were indoctrinated in.)

Me:
I am trying to "un-indoctrinate" myself these days!

Br. Marty:
It is at the point of returning that the rest of the Firstfruits meet YAHSHUA and their brethren, this multitude with Him that was just described, in the air.

Me:
The ones called firstfruits are the extremely squeaky clean undefiled ones (virgins!) YHWH preserved for Himself to keep the tribal lineages of Israel during the time that the masses of Israel were not a people. Maybe along the lines of the 7000 who didn't ever bow to ba'al.

I can't claim to be part of this group for they seem to be like the prophets of old, YHWH's special elite forces He seems to have always had during all of our known history. They are the true firstfruits. The rest of us are the lost scattered Israelites who became not a people but who will be immediately after great tribulation.

Br. Marty (con't. quoting 1 Thess.):
"KJV 1 Thessalonians 4:17 THEN we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them (great multitude given white robes) in the clouds, to meet YAHSHUA in the air: and so shall we ever be with YAHSHUA."

Me:
A living remnant consisting maybe of some of the 144,000 (the others having already died)? Or is it is a living remnant of the scattered and punished Israel who live through the tribulation and join with the other scattered and punished Israel who were killed during tribulation? Or is it the "pre-trib" Elect who happen to survive tribulation?? I'm not exactly sure to be honest.

Br. Marty:
It is for these above reasons that I know without doubt, that the 144,000 are not all of the Firstfruits nor could they be by definition and context of the immediate preceding verses in 1 Thes. and Rev..

Me:
But just maybe they ARE all of the firstfruits, being distinctive from the other two groups I outlined previously, and the other two groups are are simply as I suggested, the early rain and later rain harvest (divided into two camps; pre-trib and post-trib). Note: Of course I'm not referring here to pre or post trib "rapture" theory.

If so, then the "pre-trib" elect could be spring "early rain" harvest, the 144,000 may be as Y'shua and be as He was, the firstfruits of the firstfruits and may very well consist of YHWH's elite forces. Maybe the 7000 who didn't bow the knee to ba'al are among the 144,000 seeing as they were pure and didn't commit harlotry with other religions... in other words they were true spiritual virgins. John the Immerser's parents were described as being blameless walking in YHWH's commands. Perhaps they will be counted among the 144,000 firstfruits? In any case, the 144,000 are definitly "The Firstfruits" either way you slice it.

I cannot say that I would qualify as one of these. You see, unfortunately, I HAVE committed whoredoms with false ba'al based religions as I suspect most people I have ever known have. The 144,000 are a super special group it seems and they are the only thing keeping the tribal heritage intact.

Br. Marty:
After the return of YAHSHUA and the Firstfruits, the millinneum begins.

What do you think?

Me:
I think you may be right. Maybe I'm right. Who knows at this stage? Who cares who's right. I only trust that YHWH has it all figured out and that He is fair, just and merciful and I pray He's merciful to me.

I lay out my disclaimer here which says, I may be wrong about a lot of things. I'm sure I'm deceived about something.

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

I have one of those hearts. It deceives me every chance it gets. So I acknowledge that, and fight it every day. Nevertheless, sometimes my heart wins out.

I believe that we do not yet "know YHWH" in the manner that we will in the fullness of the New Covenant and we only see through a glass dimly now. But then, His law will be on our hearts and no more will our hearts deceive us!

Br. Marty:
May YHWH bless and keep all who seek His Face,

your brother marty

Likewise Brother!

HalleluYAH!!!

Shabbat Shalom,
Steve
(T4T)

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave52:
Dear Brothers Marty and T4T. I have read your latest posts and would like an answer to a question I might have already asked and maybe you have already answered.

How does a person get to take part in the New Covenant? Are we now in the New Covenant or will we have to die first to take part in the New Covenant? Who would you say, as of March 1, 2003, has or is part of the New Covenant?

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Good morning Dave and a hearty Shabbat Shalom to you!

I think your question is probably the one that I have contemplated the most in my "religious" life, though maybe asked in differing ways. And yet, it's probably the question that I think most people either never ask or will accept the most superficial answer to if they do ask.

Following are search results in the KJV for the phrases "New Covenant" and "New Testament". Let's see if there are any clues therein.

New Covenant

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith YHWH, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith YHWH, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 12:24 And to Y'shua the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

New Testament

Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mark 14:24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.

Luke 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

1 Corinthians 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

The overall consensus that I get is that the New Covenant blood has been offered. It (the blood) has been deemed worthy by YHWH for the purposes He set out. Now and since the time the blood was offered we seem to be in a stage of mediation.

According to what we read from the writer of Hebrews, Y'shua is the mediator of the New Covenant. "Is" denotes present tense and was obviously written years after Y'shua had died, been raised, and ascended to be with Father. So years after He ascended, He was still mediating the New Covenant. During this mediation phase, He acts as our Advocate, sort of like our lawyer before the court. Satan is our accuser. He is our prosecutor you might say.

This "courtroom scenario" is still actively being played out, and so I have to say that the New Covenant is still being mediated.

There are so many differing points of view on what "acceptance" of the terms of the New Covenant is, that I can only say there is no solid consensus among believers.

I suspect it entails more than we have been led to believe. I believe it means total repentance for one thing, with no more sin after the point of total acceptance. No more as in no more. Repentance as in absolute breakdown in tearful remorse to the core (Zechariah 12:10-12).

Jeremiah 30:3 For, lo, the days come, saith YHWH, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith YHWH: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.

Hasn't happened yet.

Jeremiah 30:6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?

7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

Hasn't happened yet.

Jeremiah 30:9 But they shall serve YHWH their Elohim, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.

Hasn't happened yet.

Jeremiah 30:10 Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith YHWH; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.

11 For I am with thee, saith YHWH, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.

Hasn't happened yet.

Jeremiah 31:1 At the same time, saith YHWH, will I be the Elohim of all the families of Israel, and they shall be my people.

Hasn't happened yet. Note: ALL the families of Israel. Apparently the bloodlines will in fact be kept intact. The 144,000 seem to be evidence of that promise.

Jeremiah 31:8 Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither.

Hasn't happened yet. This seems to be a physical exodus of all of the tribes of Israel and is spoken of in many other places of scripture.

Jeremiah 31:9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

Has not happened yet.

Jeremiah 31:10 Hear the word of YHWH, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.

Has not happened yet.

Jeremiah 31:18 I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art YHWH my Elohim.

19 Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.

These in my opinion are giving us some chronological order of events that take place leading up to the New Covenant when the families of all of Israel, and those who enjoin themselves to Israel are saved and redeemed from their long tumultuous punishments and after they repent bitterly, are instructed to the point that they shall not stumble.

My question for those who believe they have entered into the fullness of the New Covenant is, do you yet stumble in any way?

If so, then you have not entered into the fullness of the New Covenant, although you may certainly have the HOPE and the PROMISE of it right now as it is still being mediated on your behalf by your Advocate, Y'shua the Messiah.

So that's where I believe we are, still in the hope, promise, and mediation phase. It's an age of faith in these hopes and promises, that surely YHWH will complete that which He began. We must yet endure to the end and the end has not come yet as far as I can tell.

YHWH bless all who seek Him on His great Sabbath Day!
T4T

Hi guys,

Hope this email finds you all having a wonderful, restful and spiritually fulfilling sabbath.

Hi Dave52,

It is much easier to address your question first before I get to T4T.

I do not believe the "new covenant" talked about in Jer 31 is in effect now. I believe it to be a Covenant for a future physically resurrected nation of Israel.

Here is why, in my view,

"KJV Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know YAHWEH: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith YAHWEH: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

This is the second part of the "new covenant" YAHWEH has just revealed to Jeremiah.

In my view,

1. Neighbor is still teaching Neighbor through YAHWEH's Spirit about YAHWEH. We see this occuring every week and even here on this forum.

2. We all do not know YAHWEH from the least to the Greatest. There is no caviat stated that this applies only to the Firstfruits of today. In my view, this entails everyone.

3. YAHWEH does still remember the sins of Israel today. In fact, He has not yet rendered all of his punishment on Israel, or Jerusalem, for their sins.

In my view, these 3 tests of the "new covenant" fail, and are not seen in this world today.

We cannot ignore Eze 37 and all of the numerous scriptures in Isaih and Jeremiah that talk about a physical nation serving YAHWEH IN ZION. A physical nation being brought back to the land of their fathers to serve YAHWEH forever.

Furthermore, I have done enough research on Greek Texts to know that the word "new" was added to the NT verses in Luke and Corinthians, and added grammatically incorrect. Thus, it is my view, that YAHSHUA was not referring at all to the "new covenant" during the Passover ceremonies. I have that info if you would like to receive it.:0)

Hi T4T,

Let me ask you a question which may help both of us understand a little better when a "covenant" is fulfilled.

When YAHSHUA RETURNS and the Firstfruits are changed into the Spiritual Beings like YAHSHUA IS, does that not fulfill the "covenant of Faith or Promise" to them immediately?

In my view, once the Firstfruits are changed, they no longer need any "covenant". Their promise of "eternal life" has been fulfilled AT THAT TIME. From that moment and second in time on, they are permanent family members of YAHWEH. That promise of eternal life has been granted, contract fulfilled and Spiritual Family Status granted for eternity.

It is for this reason and a few more, that I cannot accept, at this time, knowing that AFTER the Firstfruit resurrection has occured that another resurrection into physical human beings being taken back to the Zion to serve YAHWEH forever, that the Firstfruits will need any other "covenant" or "contract" with the Father. Theirs have already been fulfilled.

This is my view. We rarely talk about when fulfillment of contracts or "covenants" occur. Maybe it is time to do so. I think it has a tremendous bearing on understanding the "new covenant" and who it is for.:0)

May YAHWEH bless and keep all who seek His Face,

your brother marty

quote:

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Originally posted by brmarty:
Hi T4T,

Let me ask you a question which may help both of us understand a little better when a "covenant" is fulfilled.

When YAHSHUA RETURNS and the Firstfruits are changed into the Spiritual Beings like YAHSHUA IS, does that not fulfill the "covenant of Faith or Promise" to them immediately?

In my view, once the Firstfruits are changed, they no longer need any "covenant". Their promise of "eternal life" has been fulfilled AT THAT TIME. From that moment and second in time on, they are permanent family members of YAHWEH.

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Shabbat Shalom Br. Marty,

A very good point! And it's another component which has gone overlooked. Covenants (or contracts) are negotiated, arbitrated, mediated, executed, and if all goes well, fulfilled.

You have given me something else to ponder. Thanks!

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Please allow me to now ask a question of you.

In all that Br. Marty and I have presented to you, including much scripture, I notice that many things are yet to be refuted by you. The question is therefore, are there some things that we have presented which are valid in your opinion and with which you can agree?

If so, can you briefly enumerate what points you would agree with us on regarding this overall picture of future fulfillment and ingathering of Israel, etc.?

quote:

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torah4today wrote: “If so, can you briefly enumerate what points you would agree with us on regarding this overall picture of future fulfillment and ingathering of Israel, etc.?”

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I’m definitely going to look at it from a different perspective. Let me study some things and I might be able to give you a creditable answer in the future.

Okay, let's continue to think upon the "new covenant".

If we can come to the understanding that the Firstfruits's contract or "covenant" is fulfilled instantly upon the return of YAHSHUA, let us now ask eachother when does YAHSHUA return?

In my view, YAHSHUA returns prior to the millinneum beginning. The seven vials are poured out upon the world after the blowing of the 7th Trump in the 7th Seal. Then, after the vials, in my view, we see the beginning of the millinneum.

"KJV Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of YAHWEH, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with YAHSHUA a thousand years."

In my view, the Firstfruits, who have since been changed into Spirit Beings, will be the ELOHIYM of the Physical Nation of Israel and of the human race at that time. We must rememeber, there are other human beings who lived through the tribulation who have not accepted YAHWEH.

In my view, YAHWEH will use this physical nation of Israel as an example to the rest of the world. And, those remaining of the other nations will have an opportunity to accept YAHWEH.

"KJV Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, YAHWEH of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, YAHWEH of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith YAHWEH will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles"

Notice, there is no talk of any of the physical family of Israel not keeping the Feasts, only the heathen of the rest of the countries.

This has to occur before the new heavens and new earth because we still see sin existing and punishment for those sins. In my view, sin and all it entails is destroyed in the lake of fire at the end of the thousand years and at the time of the second death and white throne judgement.

Is it possible that YAHWEH is offering an opportunity for those last few nations remaining, to become still yet a part of the family of Israel? Or is this simply the punishment phase of those countries?

May YAHWEH bless and keep all who seek His Face,

your brother marty