quote:

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Yahwehwitnesses wrote (02-27-2003 03:36): “You (Dave) wrote: God sent forth his Son, made of a woman” (Ga 4:4).

My (Yahwehwitnesses) Reply:That is not correct!
http://www.eliyah.com/thescriptures/
http://www.paleotimes.org/bible/nt/B48C004.htm
Galatians 4:4 But when the completion of the time came, Elohim sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under Torah.”

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The Greek word we’re looking at is “ginomai” which I quoted the KJV as translating in Gal 4:4 as “made” (of a woman). But you quoted the [i]Sacred Scriptures, Family of Yah Edition[i] translating “ginomai” as “born.” So I guess you think “ginomai” should be translated “born.”

quote:

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Yahwehwitnesses wrote: “Dave52, You Wrote: in
http://www.eliyah.com/forum2/Forum10/HTML/000436-8.html
The Greek word translated “born” here is “ginomai” and is translated be, come to pass, be made, be done, come, become. It is the same word used in John 1:14 and translated “made”.

My (Yahwehwitnesses) Reply: You have mistaken.

Examples:NKJV uses the word Became (plus you gave 12 other versions that use “became”)

Furthermore Yahshua and his disciples were not Latin. THE KJV is one of the very few scripture books that still use the word "Made".”

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So what you’re getting at is that you prefer the Greek word “ginomai” to be translated “born” in Gal 4:4 but would like “ginomai” translated “became” in John 1:14. But if we go to John 1:3 this is what we have.

KJV Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

SSFYE Joh 1:3 All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made.

In John 1:3 the Greek word “ginomai” was used three times and each time the KJV and the SSFYE both translated it as “made”.

My questionS are (and please give them serious consideration), if in verse 3 the Word made “all things” then was the flesh of Yahshua (verse 14) also part of the “all things” or should verse 3 say, “all things plus the flesh”? And if the Word made all things including the “flesh” of verse 14 then how could the Word turn into or became the flesh that it had already made?

Messiah Yahushua existed with YHWH as a "High Priest".. always with Him, always subject to Him, always doing His bidding (i.e. agent of creation).. always along side..sharing always in the self same Spirit of the Father, His Ruach, in "one accord" then He was sent to earth (which again he obeyed submitted to) and was begotten as a Son "This day have I begotten thee as a Son" the only "begotten of the Father"..He and His Father are One, (a man and wife are made "one") "Father make them One as We are One"... One in thought and purpose, sharing in the Same Spirit of YHWH that is also sent to dwell in us, (unity/family) if indeed we have and share of His Ruach (Spirit).. He was the first to "overcome" (as he was perfect) and conquer death and the grave, making the way for us, and continues as our High Priest..........always the Fathers spokesman........... always His servant, always His Priest, doing His will, always His Perfect Word....."and the Word was made flesh and dwelt amoung us". He was fully man and also had a full measure of His Spirit, as the "spirit of YHWH decended upon Him"... He was fully man (YHWH the Most High cannot be flesh).. "2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of Elohiym: Every spirit that confesseth that Yahushua Messiah is come in the flesh is of Elohiym:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Yahushua Messiah is come in the flesh is not of Elohiym: and this is that spirit of antiMessiah" clearly to me the Father is not the Son (whom He begot), the Son is not the Father Most High who begot Him, this would be confusion, it is not easy to the natural mind to try to force it to be for a reason... would you agree? They are inseparable as they share in the same Spirit of YHWH and have one mind and purpose, but the Son always does the will of His Father.. do you not remember that even the Son does not know the day nor hour, but only the Father????? clearly there is separation! And He is restored and exalted to His right hand.. the right hand of Power (YHWH)..
YHWH bless you through Yahushua Messiah

Now you know why Yohanan left.

A few people decided to post things in Yohanan's topics that were very wrong.
There posting were an attack and had nothing to do with Yohanan's topic..

T4T in another one of his topics says OOOOPPS, and he suggests he didn't mean to post in Yohanans topic.. So why didn't he remove it then?, and fix his errors.

Certain peopel were altering scripture by replacing words and meanings, and Yohanan tried to show them what 9 other scripture books show. Then they all turned agist him.

I already wrote to T4T, and he said he did not see it needed to respond to me.

So look for yourself ---

T4T wrote in Yohanan's post at http://www.eliyah.com/forum2/Forum10/HTML/000292-3.html

Quote:
(Dave's) Comment: That seems to be a twisted Jehovah Witness teaching, and that's not what scripture says, and it's against the first commandment to make Yahshua as Yahweh, or equal to Yahweh.

Amie's Comment:
DAVE DID NOT WRITE THAT, YOHANNAN DID.

T4T Also wrote in same post to Yohanan:

Quote:
Look what You wrote “Dave, I believe the problem you are having is failing to understand that YAHSHUA IS A YAHWEH AND SO IS FATHER YAH.

Amie's Comment:
YOHANAN DID NOT WRITE THAT. AND YOHANAN DOES NOT BELIEVE THAT YAHSHUA IS YAHWEH. THIS TOPIC THAT YOHANAN WROTE CLEARLY SHOWS WHT HIE BELIEVES.

You will also see where T4T compares Yohanan has having the same teaching effects as Benny Hinn, David Koresh, and Jim Jones.

Marty wrote and applied the name YAHWEH to the following scripture -
KJV John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with YAHWEH(the Father), and the Word was YAHWEH(the Son).
2 The same was in the beginning with YAHWEH(the Father).3 All things were made by him(the Father); and without him (the Son) was not any thing made that was made."

YOHANAN TRIED TO CORRECT HIM, AND EVERYONE GANGED UP ON HIM, THEN THEY CAME AND POSTED ALL OF THER ATTACKS IN YOHANAN'S TOPIC.

ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS READ WHAT THEY WROTE, AND NOTICE THAT THEY DID NOT MENTION WHO QOUTED WHAT, MAKING IT LOOK LIKE YOHANAN SAID THOSE THINGS. VERY MISLEADING.

THEY DID NOT AGREE WITH WHAT YOHANAN WAS SHARING, SO THEY ATTACKED HIM IN SEVERAL POSTS, THAT'S WHY HE LEFT. AND IT's not the first time this has happened.

I am sorry he left, and so did a few others.

Shalom

Sister Amie Li

Hi Sister amie li,

For the record and to further elaborate my involvement in this event, and concerning what I said, please read the following,

you said,

"Marty wrote and applied the name YAHWEH to the following scripture -
KJV John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with YAHWEH(the Father), and the Word was YAHWEH(the Son).
2 The same was in the beginning with YAHWEH(the Father).3 All things were made by him(the Father); and without him (the Son) was not any thing made that was made."

YOHANAN TRIED TO CORRECT HIM, AND EVERYONE GANGED UP ON HIM, THEN THEY CAME AND POSTED ALL OF THER ATTACKS IN YOHANAN'S TOPIC."

These comments were made on an entirely different thread of which I was participating in. I had no idea this thread even existed except as a title to a thread I had seen on the main forum. I opened this thread tonight and have found this posting.

I suggest to you in the future that you get your facts straight before dragging or associating me with any type of activity such as this.

And, furthermore, I found YOHANAN'S postings to be absolutely self righteous and pretentious in nature as many have. The very idea that He or anyone else has the ability to correct mine or anyone else's understandings by his understanding is without merit and, in my view, completely wrong. He has no way of proving he is right, nor do I. Because of the vast amount of Greek translational errors, we still have absolutely no way of knowing 100% for sure what the original translations would have been, the Father,Son or Elohim, for this Greek word "theos".

Therefore, stating one's belief based on one's personal understandings is just that, their personal understandings. They may or may not be correct in this case. To state that one knows absolutely to the point of correcting is by my measure a "self-righteous" attitude of which I was absolutely forthcoming with those exact words to Yohanan in a posting on the thread in quesiton."

If you have any questions in the future about my involvement in this particular event, I would refer you or anyone else to go the "What is the New Covenant" thread and read the last couple of pages for yourselves.

And, for the record, anyone on this forum who thinks that their understanding is absolute truth based on their personal interpretations of whatever scripture, in my view, needs to understand that as much as they believe they may be right, the fact is that they could be wrong as wrong can be. That is why it is very important for us always to preface our statements as "our understandings, views, faith, ideas, etc.etc. Especially when dealing with members of the Body of YAHSHUA. That way there is no room for self-righteousness or "my understanding is right and yours is wrong" attitudes to creep into our sharing of ideas. This is my understanding.

I pray that YAHWEH continues to open all of our minds to His understandings and His Will for us all.

May YAHWEH bless and keep all who seek His Face,

your brother marty

I dont' know about all that, nor do I want to be a part of all that, nor would I want to take sides or argue. I simply saw the Post title, read through a few commentaries and opinions, and wanted to share my convictions....

YHWH bless the brethren in Messiah Yahushua, may we all be led by His Kodesh Spirit in all Righteousness and Truth

Now that I have had time to go back and read this entire thread, I must say that it is MY UNDERSTANDING the YAHWEH did not create YAHSHUA.

I believe YAHSHUA was also Melchizedek, the High Priest, in Genesis.

"KJV Genesis 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high EL (Father YAH)."

It is very clear that whomever Melchizedek was, in my view YAHSHUA, he certainly was not Father YAH, the Most High El.

Along those lines we find the following scripture,

"KJV Hebrews 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high EL (god, "theos"), who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; 2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; 3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of YAH (god,"theos"); abideth a priest continually."

In my view, it is clear that Melchizedek was not created by the Father YAH or He certainly would have had a "beginning of days".

And, just as a side note, in verse 1 and 3 of this chapter, we find the word "theos" translated as most high "EL", which we know to be the FATHER and "God", as in the FATHER OF THE SON.

This was precisely the argument YOHANAN was engaged with me in. YOHANAN translated "theos" as "ELOHIYM" and I translated "theos" as the "Father" and as the "Son". In fact, I would not disagree that it could be translated as "Elohiym". The problem is, know one knows for absolute certainty in the scriptures that were in question. John 1:1-3.

This is precisely why we must always preface our understandings as just that, our understandings, not the gospel, absolute truth as YOHANAN was suggesting of His interpretation, to the point of telling others to include me that we were wrong and he was right. That was wrong. I hope we can all learn a lesson from this unfortunate event. I, personally, agreed with several things that YAHWEHWITNESSES said, but not everything to include this topic. Unfortunately, it is our verbal and written delivery of our faiths that sometimes get us into trouble. We must always remember that we are fallable human beings, and subject to vanity. That was how we were created. We all must work hard to overcome it especially in an environment such as this where many are sharing their different understandings which are the faiths they live by.:0)

May YAHWEH bless and keep all who seek His Face,

To study what Yohanan started, please go back to the beggining of this topic at
http://www.eliyah.com/forum2/Forum10/HTML/000292.html

Yohanan wasn't trying to force anyone to agree with what scripture says about Yahshua being the first born of all creation as shown in Colossians 1:14-16 & Hebrews 1:1-6

If anybody reads in the posts at http://www.eliyah.com/forum2/Forum10/HTML/000292-3.html and within T4T's topic, they can see what was really said.

The truth is, Yohanan stated in his posts that he was SHARING what the scriptures said, and He provided over 12 links to various on-line bibles and scriptures for John 1:1-3 so you guys could confirm what he was sharing with you.

Then Yohanan was accused of teaching, and he was accused of using his own interpitations. well I guess anybody can be mean, and say that to anybody.

The truth is that Marty modified John 1:1-3 with his own interpitaions as shown below.

Marty Wrote:

"KJV John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with YAHWEH (the Father), and the Word was YAHWEH (his family name). 2 The same was in the beginning with YAHWEH(the Father)."

Yohanan asked for someone to show him an online bible where it uses the most high name Yahweh in John 1:1-3, and nobody could.

In above post T4T quotes Yohanan as saying things that Yohanan did not say, and I think that is very wrong for T4T to do.

If anyone reads T4T's topic at http://www.eliyah.com/forum2/Forum10/HTML/000436-9.html

they will see that it was others who said those things and not Yohanan. So why does T4T keep it there when he already knows that Yohanan never wrote those things?.

I know why, because you guys didn't agree with what Yohanan shared and the scriptures that he provided.

So then some of you went to Yohanan's older posts of a differant topic and started posting attacks against him, and accusing him of several things that he never said, or did.

This site is supposed to be for sharing and seeking the truth. EliYah said in this site registration form: http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/forum/Ultimate.cgi?action=agree

[Heavy use of scripture to back up your words are encouraged, lengthy posts without scripture are frowned upon]

But T4T posted the following to Yohanan
T4T said: You are teaching us what the scriptures "really say"? Thanks anyway, but we have the Ruach for this purpose.

Yohanan said he was trying to SHARE what the scriptures show.

Again, You will also see where T4T compares Yohanan has having the same teaching effects as Benny Hinn, David Koresh, and Jim Jones.

Well here are all of Yohanan's posts. See for yourself what he has shared since he came here. http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/forum/search.cgi

I'm not saying Yohanan is perfect, neither is anybody here. What I am saying is that Yohanan was insulted and then compared as having the same effect as various cult leaders. He was wrongfully accused and attacked by fasle statements, and his older posts where attacked because you guys didn't agree with what he was sharing, and because he didn't agree with some of the verses and words that where intentionally altered.

I can't understand how this can be allowed to happen to such a wonderful brother.

I will say one thing, I'm leaving now too.
That makes five of us now.

Shalom

Sister Amie Li /BHM

Peace unto you brother!

Best to just let it be my friend... obviously there is some kind of personal vendetta going on here against both you and I.

Why feed it?

Regarding the topic of Y'shua, and who He was or was not, and His relationship with the Father, etc. we don't currently hold to the same understanding. I think you would agree with that.

The amazing to me is, I can reasonably and calmly discuss this issue and others with you in a way that I cannot with most people. Why is that?

It is because of exactly what you have stated above. That is the proper mindset to have when coming to YHWH and His truths. He can (and does) send "strong delusion" as HE wills. If any man think he can outsmart YHWH, he'd best think again!

So everybody on the planet has a belief. Many on the planet believe in the words of the bible. Few agree on what it says. Now we are talking about hundreds of millions if not billions of "christian people". How is it that most of these billions of people all think they are right? Why are there over 22,000 denominations in christianity?

There are so very many splits and schisms and isms even within the so called "sacred name movement" and "messianics" and what have you. We witness this daily on this forum!

Some, few it seems, realize that any or all of us can be and probably are deceived more than we imagine. Elsewise, if we knew how deceived we were, we wouldn't be so deceived now would we?

I recently quoted this following verse, but it merits another posting (in case somebody who is reading this might need a reminder):

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Our heart (mind) is our chief deceiver according to this passage. Everyone I know who is alive today has one of these hearts (minds).

We'd all do very well to make the best effort to maintain humility. I fail at this many times as we all do, but I keep trying.

I really have appreciated your insights and your firm yet modest demeanor.

I thank YHWH for putting us in touch again on the net after first meeting at FOT '01. During the turmoils of FOT '02, you didn't accuse me, berate me or down me in any way at all for holding to differing calendar dates. Yet you should have seen all the bickering and name calling on this forum and elsewhere last year over the calendar issue... wow what a year!

And so you and I are able to reason with each other without slinging mud all over the place, even when we understand differently regarding the calendar, the name spellings, the nature of Messiah, and I'm sure other things as well. I acknowledge that maybe my understanding is flawed in some way and that I will be certainly shown the absolute truth one day. You are assured of the same thing. Then we will be in perfect unity and harmony. But now we try to work with each other to get to that place! HalleluYAH!

As you no doubt know, it's not like that with most religious people. I'm tending more and more to just let them be when I first detect signs of "me right you wrong" mentality. More and more, I just lean toward something like... "ok, whatever you want to believe is your business"

And just let them go. If you can't reason peaceably with someone within the first 10 minutes of a conversation, why waste the energy? There are plenty of hungry people out there who will sit down and discuss the deep things. I look for those people and try to focus my energies on them. A closed mind is a dangerous thing with all of the deceptions rampant in this world!

Well anyway, thanks for being a good brother and fellow truth seeker. (And thanks for lending an ear!)

May YHWH bless you and yours this year with abundance of life and truth!

Your brother,
Steve

Please restore this back to the original topic.

Thank you

Sister Amie

Please restore this back to the original topic.

YAHSHUA WAS CREATED by his FATHER YAHWEH

This is powerful so buckle your seat belts, or get your ejection seat ready.

This will prove that Yahshua was and is the son of Yahweh, and that Yahshua was created by Yahweh.

It should also confirm that the Father is "The word".

There are many opinions and much without scripture to back them up. Don't lean unto your own understandings or the babble of others.

The virgin birth is a lie:

http://pub13.ezboard.com/fneedsomewisdomfrm7.showMessage?topicID=18.topic

http://pub13.ezboard.com/fneedsomewisdomfrm7.showMessage?topicID=2.topic

Trinity evidence is false:

http://pub13.ezboard.com/fneedsomewisdomfrm7.showMessage?topicID=15.topic

http://pub13.ezboard.com/fneedsomewisdomfrm7.showMessage?topicID=22.topic

http://pub13.ezboard.com/fneedsomewisdomfrm7.showMessage?topicID=26.topic

http://pub13.ezboard.com/fneedsomewisdomfrm7.showMessage?topicID=33.topic

http://pub13.ezboard.com/fneedsomewisdomfrm7.showMessage?topicID=30.topic

http://pub13.ezboard.com/fneedsomewisdomfrm7.showMessage?topicID=6.topic

http://pub13.ezboard.com/fneedsomewisdomfrm7.showMessage?topicID=11.topic

http://pub13.ezboard.com/fneedsomewisdomfrm7.showMessage?topicID=4.topic

http://pub13.ezboard.com/fneedsomewisdomfrm7.showMessage?topicID=3.topic

http://pub13.ezboard.com/fneedsomewisdomfrm7.showMessage?topicID=13.topic

http://pub13.ezboard.com/fneedsomewisdomfrm7.showMessage?topicID=20.topic

http://pub13.ezboard.com/fneedsomewisdomfrm7.showMessage?topicID=10.topic

http://pub13.ezboard.com/fneedsomewisdomfrm7.showMessage?topicID=8.topic

Those who worship Jesus as if Jesus is the true God are idolaters:

http://pub13.ezboard.com/fneedsomewisdomfrm7.showMessage?topicID=31.topic

http://pub13.ezboard.com/fneedsomewisdomfrm7.showMessage?topicID=63.topic

quote:

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Originally posted by Lynn:
Matthew,

You wrote: [b]For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Where do you get that verse?
It's Trinty forgery!

Lynn

[/B]

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