I thought that your last thought was interesting, that question as to whether we can walk on water, or raise the dead right now. I can't help but think of Yeshua's words that came true about His followers:

"These twelve Yeshua sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not [this was not allowed, because there were still just a few years left in the probationary time given to the Hebrews, this from Daniel 9: 24-27, which came to a close in 34 A.D.]: 6: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7: And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8: Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give" (Matthew 8: 5-10).

You are rate 4-
You believe that there is only One Person (Body,spirit...) of the Father and the Son?

But I do want to add the good rating for the writings of Dave about Mind, spirit.

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RichieMaGoo wrote: “The difference is: We have a token deposit of that Spirit, and will not have the full measure until we are born again in the resurrection. Yahushua had the full measure.”

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“Yahweh giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him” is a bit different then Yahweh’s spirit was him or even that he had the full measure. It doesn’t say he had the entire HS in him for then why would he need the support of an angel in Lu 22:43? Yahshua was filled with the HS exactly as any believer is only of course his filling was unlimited whereas ours is limited from person to person. If Yahshua had 1000 gallons of the HS and Peter, James and Paul each had 10 gallons and we only have one gallon it makes no difference, we are all human beings wherein dwells a degree of the HS.

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RichieMaGoo wrote: “We will be sons of YHWH when born again. Until then, can we walk on water, or raise the dead, or even ourselves after we die?”

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dave52:
The Son had a MIND of his own, separate from the Father?s.

1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of Yahweh, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Messiah.
Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Messiah Yahshua.

As well he had his own WILL.

Mr 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things [are] possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.
Jn 5:30 I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

And his own SOUL.

Mt 26:38 My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
Jn 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say?

The Son had a SPIRIT that was not the Father?s.

Mr 2:8 And immediately when Yahshua perceived in HIS spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?
Mr 8:12 And he sighed deeply in HIS spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign?
Lu 1:80 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit.
Lu 2:40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
Lu 23:46 And when Yahshua had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend MY spirit:

If Yahweh created only a body, an empty body, and then incarnated Himself into it, who would that body be? Of course it would be Yahweh and have Yahweh?s mind, will, soul and spirit. Now the scriptures tell us the body that hung on the tree at Calvary did not have Yahweh?s mind, will, soul, or spirit, however the person on the tree did have Yahweh?s spirit dwelling him. Instead the Bible insists the body at Calvary had the mind, will, soul and spirit of a man named Yahshua. If we want to believe in the ?Incarnation? we will have to admit the body on the tree had two minds, two wills, two souls and two spirits, one each from Yahweh and one each from Yahshua.

However, Yahshua had the same number of spirits in him as Peter had, or Paul or James. That number is two (2). We have our own spirit as well as the spirit of Elohim dwelling in us just as Yahshua did.

Yahshua had two spirits in him.

Joh 14:10 The Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself.
Joh 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Believers have two spirits in them.

1Co 3:16 Ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 6:19 Your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you.
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Ro 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Why then is the fact that Yahweh (being spirit) dwelled in His son used to support this belief that it proves Yahweh was His son. With that kind of logic all believers must be Yahweh.

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Dave, thank you for answering the questions.

Believers receive two spirits. One of the father and another of the Son. Do I understand you correctly?

quote:

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Originally posted by ana_yncaphil:
Sorry Trooper,

You are rate 4-
You believe that there is only One Person (Body,spirit...) of the Father and the Son?

But I do want to add the good rating for the writings of Dave about Mind, spirit.

Ana

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Hi Ana

Yes we believe there is but one Body and One Ruwach!

Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Ruwach, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;

Are believers made up of three ruwachs? One of the Father another of the Son, and then one of their own?

Shalom

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave52:

Why then is the fact that Yahweh (being spirit) dwelled in His son used to support this belief that it proves Yahweh was His son. With that kind of logic all believers must be Yahweh.

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Hello again,

No, and even that has no logic in understanding scripture.

The fullness of the ElHead does not dwell in any believer "bodily."

Col 2:9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Elhead bodily;

The One who truly has the Fullness of Yahuah is "Yahshuah," who came din the form of Elohim.

Phil 2:6 who, being in the form of Elohim, did not consider it robbery to be equal with Elohim,

Shalom

However, considering the twinity doctrine, there are two spirits given to believers who have a ruwach of their own. Yet we are accused of believing in a trinity.

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Originally posted by Lynn:
Trooper,

Seven candles have seven flames.

Without the fire they have no purpose to exist.

When they come together, they become as one light to shine the same glory of the consuming fire.

No man has seen the face of YHWH and lived.

We have seen the face of the Sun, and we have seen the face of his Son.

YHWH is not the Sun, nor is he the Son.

YHWH created the Sun, and YHWH created his Son.

Fear YHWH, and try to understand the spiritual things that are not of this world.

Also beware of the lying pen of BAAL. I am very aware of those scriptures.

Lynn

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quote:

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Originally posted by Lynn:
Shalom Trooper,

Not sure who you were addressing your post to, so I will give it my best reply.
However I think we already went over most of this before.

You wrote:[b] Isa 44:24 Thus saith Yahuah, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am Yahuah that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

My Responce: All things were put under Yahshua by the name "authority" given to him of his Father whom created him. Yahshua is a part of his Father and the first born of all creation. Yahshua made it very clear that he did nothing of himself, and several scriptures show that they work together. The authority - power that Yahshua has, is of the Father in him.

[/B]

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Hi Lynn

Since you are posting to me again, can you go back to the last three questions I asked and answer them. I am sure you know what they are. Or just tell me you not interested. I will get to each point you made in your last post to me, one point at a time. I then will comment on this post.

Now for your other post to me and 1st point.

Did Yahuah and Yahshuah work together (as you say) when Yahuah (please note what He said) stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;? Or was it Yahuah alone and by Himself?

quote:

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Originally posted by Lynn:
Trooper,

You wrote:

[b]Since you are posting to me again, can you go back to the last three questions I asked and answer them. I am sure you know what they are

My Reply:

I don't know what questons they are, but if you wish to repost them to me, I will do my best to respond according to scripture if possible.

Lynn[/B]

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Oh, thank you Lynn.

We can start with this one.

Did Yahuah and Yahshuah work together (as you say) when Yahuah (please note what He said) stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;? Or was it Yahuah alone and by Himself?

quote:

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Originally posted by Lynn:
Trooper

Also see Zec 12:1 The burden of [b]the word of Yahweh concerning Israel. Thus saith Yahweh, who stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him:

YOU WROTE:Did Yahuah and Yahshuah work together (as you say) when Yahuah (please note what He said) stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;? Or was it Yahuah alone and by Himself?

My Reply:

Scripture says that YHWH created the heavens and the earth, and that all things within the heavens and within the earth where created by/through Yahshua, but note that Yahshua also said he did nothing of himself or without the Father.

I was reffering to the creation of the first Adam where it says "Let us" create mankind in "our" own image after "our" likeness. And look the man has become like one of "us"

Lynn[/B]

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Lynn

So Yahuah did not stretcheth forth the heavens alone nor spreadeth abroad the earth by Himself, but needed a second person to do this. Is this correct?

Shalom

quote:

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Originally posted by Lynn:
Trooper,

You wrote:[b]

Lynn

So Yahuah did not stretcheth forth the heavens alone nor spreadeth abroad the earth by Himself, but needed a second person to do this. Is this correct?

Shalom

My Reply: I never said such things against scripture.

What I am saying is that Elohim created the heavens and the earth. Then the spirit OF Elohim came to the earth.

Elohim created Yahshua as the first born of all living creation, and YHWH Elohim put all things under Yahshua.
The power that Yahshua had to do the things he did, was the name "Authority" that he was created of his Father. That name was given to him above all things. Yahshua was made of the Heavenly Father, and therefor is a part of his Father, but not the Father. YHWH is within his son Yahshua, and they have worked together ever since YHWH created Yahshua in heaven.

Lynn

[This message has been edited by Lynn (edited 06-28-2003).][/B]

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Hey Lynn

But you said Yahuah created things by and through Yahshuah. Undestanding that if Yahshuah is a second person and not Yahuah, then Yahuah did not stretcheth forth the heavens alone nor spreadeth abroad the earth by Himself, but needed a second person to do this.

It is either Yahuah did it with someone or alone and by Himself.

So which is it? By himself or was a second person needed?

Shalom

quote:

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Originally posted by Lynn:
Trooper,

It seems that you are testing me, and seeking any error you can find.

Please note that I am human, and that I'm not perfect. I am also continuing to
grow in the WORD, and the WORD in me as I obey.

You wrote:<>
But you said Yahuah created things by and through Yahshuah

Can you please show me where I said that, so I can see exactly what you are talking about?

Lynn

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Hey Lynn

1 Thess 5:20 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of Elohim; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Not that your a false prophet, just doing what we are told!

See your quote in the first post of this thread.

Your Reply:

Scripture says that YHWH created the heavens and the earth, and that all things within the heavens and within the earth where created by/through Yahshua, but note that Yahshua also said he did nothing of himself or without the Father.

Shalom

quote:

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Originally posted by Lynn:
Notice the word "WITHIN" in my statement.
You forgot to include it in yours.

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Shalom Lynn

"Within" does not change any point to your statement. If you do not want to be questioned/tested for what you teach in the face of scripture then so be it. But a true teacher of Yahuah will!!

You wrote:

Scripture says that YHWH created the heavens and the earth, and that all things within the heavens and within the earth where created by/through Yahshua, but note that Yahshua also said he did nothing of himself or without the Father.
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If Yahuah said He created all things, stretched out the heavens all alone and spread abroad the earth by Himself, then there was no second person when Yahuah created anything!

Isa 44:24 Thus says Yahuah, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb:
"I am Yahuah, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone,
Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;

The scriptures are clear. Yahshuah (image and form of Elohim) created the worlds and all things and without Him nothing was made that was made.

Heb 1:1-3 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;

John 1:3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

Hence no second person before, at or during creation!!

Praise YAH, Yahuah my Yahshuah HaMashiach!!

Shalom

Col 1:14-18 He is the image of the invisible Elohim, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

Points of the scriptures:

1: He is the image of the invisible Elohim

2: The firstborn over all creation

3: By Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth

4: All things were created through Him and for Him.

5: He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

Those who believe in a Twinity or Trinity have the same arguments and will teach that all things were created by the Father through the Son. Yet the person spoken about in Col 1:14-18 teaches all things were created by Him and through Him and for Him. The context of this scripture places "By Him and through Him" on ONE person and not two. The scriptures continue and say about this same person is that He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. All of this only discribes One Person and a Person of this stature and preeminence can only apply to Yahuah. Even the following scriptures prove it applies to Yahuah, for He has preeminence in all things.

Col 1:18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

NT:4409 proteuo (prote-yoo'-o); from NT:4413; to be first (in rank or influence):
KJV - have the preeminence.

Now since this Person wants to have preeminence in all things and if He is a second person and not Yahuah, how is it any different than Satan wanting to have preeminence also? Is this not a sin?

Shalom