Let me elaborate on what I'm saying:

I am a man. I have a mind, I have a spirit, I have a body, I have an intellect, I have emotions, I have desries and I have my word. My word expresses these parts of myself to the rest of the universe. I use my word to express my mind, my spirit, my intellect, my emotions and my desires. This word is as much me as any of the other parts of me even though it has its own function. But it cannot exist without me or it would be someone elses word and not mine.

This is what Yahushua is. He is Yahweh's Word. He is Yahweh. He expresses Yahweh to the universe and was there with Yahweh from the beginning.

So YAhushua is a part of Yahweh and not the whole Yahweh. This is why Yahweh is greater than Him. But if you take a large diamond and cut of a small piece that piece will still be diamond. So though Yahushua is a part of Yahweh He is still Elohim (just like the small piece of diamond is still diamond).

" For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." -Col 2:9

Greetings to you. Here under are some indepth studies I prayed so much before Abba Yahweh through His Son. These of course are the knowledge revealed to many elders and leaders of the congregation of which I understood that there is Truth in them.

Mathhew 24:36"But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only"

The meaning of hour in this verse:
#Hour(hora) - noun 1) a certain definite time or season fixed by natural law and returning with the revolving year

a) of the seasons of the year, spring, summer, autumn, winter
2) the daytime (bounded by the rising and setting of the sun), a day
3) a twelfth part of the day-time, an hour, (the twelve hours of the day are reckoned from the rising to the setting of the sun)
4) any definite time, point of time, moment

Here we can see that there is a part of the schedule that Only Abba Yahweh knows. Yes, Yahshua was a part of Yahweh, but not all program that Abba Yahweh tells, but reserved some schedules and this we can say the the Father is really greater than the Son, as the Son claims.

Some of the common noun characteristics of the Savior in the old testament:

Gen. 14:18And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he [was] the priest of the most high Elohim.

Malkiy-Tsedeq from 04428 and 06664- Melchizedek = "my king is Sedek"

1) king of Salem and priest of the Most High El to whom Abram paid tithe after the battle he fought to free Lot; 'the order of Melchizedek' the order of the priesthood to which Messiah belongs

from 04310 and (the prefix derivative from) 03588 and 0410from 04310
Michael = "who is like El"

1) one of, the chief, or the first archangel who is described as the one who stands in time of conflict for the children of Israel

Daniel 12:1"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book"

Angel of Yahweh
Angel #04397 -malak -from an unused root meaning to despatch as a deputy
) messenger, representative
a) messenger
b) angel
c) the theophanic angel

Exod 3:2And the angel of Yahweh appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush [was] not consumed.
Exodus 3:15And Moses said unto Elohim, Behold, [when] I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The Elohim of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What [is] his name? what shall I say unto them?
Exodus 14:19And the angel of Elohim, which went before the camp of Israel , removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face , and stood behind them:

El,Elohim #0433 (God) -noun-) (plural)

a) rulers, judges
b) divine ones
c) angels
d) gods
2) (plural intensive - singular meaning)
a) god, goddess
b) godlike one
c) works or special possessions of God
d) the (true) Elohim

Some ) (plural)
a) rulers, judges
b) divine ones
c) angels
d) gods
2) (plural intensive - singular meaning)
a) god, goddess
b) godlike one
c) works or special possessions of (God) Elohim
d) the (true) Elohim
Isiah 7:14"Therefore Yahweh Himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel
Isiah 7:14"Therefore Yahweh Himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Immanuel #from 05973 and 0410 with a pronominal suffix inserted
Immanuel = "El with us" or "with us is El"

1) symbolic and prophetic name of the Messiah, prophesying that He would be born of a virgin and would be ('God) El with us"

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty El, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
#child -03205
1) child, son, boy, offspring, youth
a) child, son, boy
b) child, children
c) descendants
d) youth
e) apostate Israelites (fig.)

All of these common names of Yahshua in the Old Testament
Just what we mean by common name? - pls. read the review of Parts Speech -"How to Study the Scripture" of this forum.

Noun - Name of person, place, thing, idea
Two kinds of Nouns- Proper and Common
Proper Name of the Saviour - Yahshua (Yahweh in the Old Testament)

Common noun - general name of the person,place, thing, idea

Common Names of Yahshua in the Old Testament:
l. melquisedec - my king is sedek
2. angel of Yahweh - representative/messenger of Father Yahweh
3. michael - who is like El
4. immanuel - El is with us
5. prince of Peace
6. mighty El
7. wonderful
8. Everlasting Father

The strong proof that Yahweh was also the Name of Yahshua in the old Testament is because of the common noun "Everlasting Father" which means the Name of Yahweh-Father He gave to the Son. The Son is not the Father,and not the Everlasting Father but it is the PROPER NAME 'YAHWEH's as the "Everlasting Father" was given to Him and He became One Creator of humankind that he is also a Father from Everlasting, then He was called of the same title, name, rank and position, although the Son claim not equality with His Father.

Who will question the Heavenly Father Yahweh if he gave His Everlasting to the Son? Niether of us can. Can a pot questioned His potter?

Brethren thanks for sharing this wonderful truth.

Yours in is Power,

ABYH

A scripture you gave;

Filled with the Fullness of the "godhead?" (Col 2:9)
"For in Him dwells all the fullness of the godhead bodily."

"Look, right here in his letter to the Colossians, Paul says that Yeshua is G-d! You can't get much clearer than that!"

Indeed! That is what the verse says... IN KING JAMES ENGLISH.
But shouldn't we take a look at what the verse says in Greek? I mean, because I am really interested in that word "G-dhead," which appears only three times in the KJV. A word like that carries all kinds of overtones which suggest tri-theism, tri-unity, trinity, or whatever else you want to call it. Was that really a word in Sha'ul's vocabulary, 1,900 year ago? And what about other similar passages which describe being filled with this "G-dhead," or some aspect of it? Could we find there, a clue which will lead us to the true meaning of this passage? Lets find out...

First of all, you should note that not all agree on the use of this word "G-dhead." Here is what some of the other translations are saying...
For in him, bodily, lives the fullness of all that G-d is. (JNT)
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form. (NIV)
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form. (NASB)
The word in Greek translated as "Deity" or "G-dhead" is "theotetos." The word appears in genitive form, and describes the concept of being G-d, rather than a person called "G-d." In other words, in this verse, it is NOT the fullness of G-d that lives in Yeshua bodily, but rather it is the completeness of G-d-ness, or G-dhood, if you will, that dwells in him.

A very similar word of nearly the same construction, appears in Romans 1:20.
For since the creation of the world G-d's invisible qualities - His eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. (NIV)
Once again, the KJV substitutes the NIV's words of "divine nature" with "G-dhead." In Greek, it is "theiotes." It means, the nature of being G-d, or the sum of qualities and attributes which make G-d who He is.
The nuance really doesn't make that much difference as we'll see in a moment, but the important thing to notice here is that "G-dhead," is a totally invented word, with no rhyme or reason for its appearance in the English text, except if you want your readers to conjure up a belief that there is a G-d in the universe who is "head" over other G-ds, contained within Him.

Ok. Now lets take a look at the word for "fullness." In Greek, that word in this passage is "plééroma" and it is a noun which means "fullness or completeness."
Taken together, Sha'ul is making a statement of fact. All of G-d's qualities are living inside of Yeshua.
What does the verse say?
1. Yeshua IS G-d.

2. All of G-d's qualities are living inside of Yeshua.
Do you see the difference?
If you are full of potatoes, does that make you a potato? If you share all the qualities and attributes of your dead uncle, does that make you your dead uncle? If we, according to Sha'ul have the "mind of the Mashiach," (1 Cor 2:16), does that make us the Mashiach?
This next verse will make the argument air-tight.

Check out Ephesians 3:17-19.
...that Mashiach may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height - to know the love of Mashiach which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of G-d.
I hope you will agree that Sha'ul is certainly desirous that his Ephesian readers would be filled up with all the fullness of G-d.

Here his language is very strong. Even stronger than our verse in Col 2:9. In Colossians, Sha'ul chose words which meant that in Yeshua dwelt the fullness of the G-d-ness or G-dhood. But here, he wants everyday Believers, like you and I, to be filled will the fullness of G-d Himself. No mincing of words here!
Here is the comparison of the two texts, so that you can see for yourself...

So... if our friends are right in saying that since Yeshua is filled with "G-d-ness," it necessarily means that Yeshua is G-d, then according to Ephesians 3:19, how much more should everyday Believers also be considered G-d, when they will become filled with the fullness of G-d?

Yahshua is G-d "Elohim", =1 G-d
but he is not the Heavenly Father YHWH Elohim = TWO G-ds

What were you before you were conceived? A thought, A prophesy, a spirit, a reason? What?

We don't really know do we? But scripture attests to what Yahushua was. Yahushua was the word of Yahweh. Its as simple as that. So then He was always here because Yahweh always had His word. And also He is Yahweh. Or the way we think in our little minds - He is a part of Yahweh, in earthly terms.

So then He was here with Yahweh from the beginning (He was not created) and He is Yahweh (or in our earthly way of thinking - a part of Yahweh). But Yahweh is one.

If you really think about it nothing existed outside of Yahweh before creaiton. So in a way we are all a part of Yahweh. Yahweh was 'pregnant' with the universe and He 'gave birth' to the universe during the creation. He used His word - Yahushua - to create the universe. In other words He literally spoke the universe into existence with His word - Yahushua.

I'm just taking a break from working right now....so I will answer your former post sometime later- right now I will address your post above.

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

So whatever you believe the "Word" was, it became flesh and dwelt among us- and there is no way to deny that the context is here speaking of Messiah. Messiah=The Word. The Word was with Elohim, and the Word was Elohim.

It sounds like you sure have to re-interpret and argue your way around a LOT of verses in order to deny the devinity of Yahushua!

I would also think that the people of Yahushuas day would be far more likely to understand the words He spoke than are we, since we are reading what has been translated probably at least two times from the original source- and the Jews of His day understood exactly what He was saying, as they accused Him of "making Himself equal with Elohim" (John 5:18), so they understood what you are here denying, and He never denied it- which, if it were not the case, He surely would've done.

I'd also be curious to know how you get around Phillipians 2:6? (If you have already addressed this, please point me to the appropriate post)

Mistranslations and pre-conceived ideas aside, it seems that one has to do a lot of work to believe in Yahushua and yet deny His deity.

Be well,

Rich

quote:

---

...But scripture attests to what Yahushua was. Yahushua was the word of Yahweh. Its as simple as that.

---

Oh dear... aren't you folks kind of obsessed with this concept of 'word'? What are you doing with the fact that Yahshua is the SON of Yahweh? The concept of 'word' is used only once in scripture in regard to Yahshua, while He is constantly called the Son of Yahweh.

Just my observation...looks like that has been lost sight of in this thread.

The Son is not the Father, but is the Son. The Son is also the 'Word' of the Father. Being the word of the Father does not make the Son into the Father.

Ahavah made a good point in saying that 'word' is not a person. A word come from a person, not a person from a word.

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David ben Yacob

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David ben Yacob

Greetings.

Let us review the figures and parts of speech.

Gen.1:15 After these things the word of Yahweh came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I [am] thy shield, [and] thy exceeding great reward.

Gen.15:14And, behold, the word of *Yahweh [came] unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
Dabar-#from 01696-common Noun
1) speech, word, speaking, thing
a) speech
b) saying, utterance
c) word, words
d) business, occupation, acts, matter, case, something, manner (by extension)

New Testament -Greek
#3004 Logos- common noun
1) of speech
a) a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea
b) what someone has said
1) a word
2) the sayings of Elohim
3) decree, mandate or order
4) of the moral precepts given by Elohim
5) Old Testament prophecy given by the prophets
6) what is declared, a thought, declaration, aphorism, a weighty saying, a dictum, a maxim
c) discourse
1) the act of speaking, speech
2) the faculty of speech, skill and practice in speaking
3) a kind or style of speaking
4) a continuous speaking discourse - instruction
d) doctrine, teaching
e) anything reported in speech; a narration, narrative
f) matter under discussion, thing spoken of, affair, a matter in dispute, case, suit at law
g) the thing spoken of or talked about; event, deed
2) its use as respect to the MIND alone
a) reason, the mental faculty of thinking, meditating, reasoning, calculating
b) account, i.e. regard, consideration
c) account, i.e. reckoning, score
d) account, i.e. answer or explanation in reference to judgment
e) relation, i.e. with whom as judge we stand in relation
1) reason would
f) reason, cause, ground
3) "In John, denotes the essential Word of *Elohim, *Yahshua Messiah, the personal wisdom and power in union with Elohim, his minister in creation and government of the universe, the cause of all the world's life both physical and ethical, which for the procurement of man's salvation put on human nature in the person of *Yahshua the Messiah..."

* inserted the True Name of Yahshua and Elohim

++++
A Greek philosopher named Heraclitus first used the term Logos around 600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates a changing universe. This word was well suited to John's purpose in John 1.

Therefore the word "Word" attributing Yahshua, as one of His common Name. In other words, He is the Word of Yahweh, the Counsellor of Yahweh, the Mediator, The High priest, the Wonderful, The Angel of Yahweh, The One who is like El, the king, the Prince of Peace, the El is with Us, The Mighty Prince of El.

When a word is used to name a person, place, thing or idea it is common noun or Proper Noun. When the word is a noun but used to modify another Noun or Pronoun, it is now adjective. Example: Executive Secretary. The Noun secretary is described by the word "executive" What kind of secretary? Executive.

What kind of Word?
Answer "of Yahweh".Preposition "of",or "from" describes the common noun "word", that is from Yahweh.

Ex. The President of Yahweh's Assembly Association.
What kind of President?
Ans. from YAA

When the verdict, or idea, or decision came from the Word of Yahweh, it is final and for executory.

Review and Identifying the Figure of Speech -
Note: Dr. Bullinger on Appendix _6_pages no.12-14 enumerated more than 170 figures of speech used in the scriptures. The following herebelow are commonly used .

1. Simile - likens or compares one thing, action or relation to something else of a different quality by using like, as, similar, to, resemble. Ex. His minds is like a sponge.

2. Metaphor - simply say one thing as if it were another. Ex. All the world's a stage.

3.Personification- attributing the qualities of a person to things not human.
Ex. Oh wind, a blowing all day long. Oh wind that sing so loud a song.

4. Aposthrope -addressing personified objects as real person, the absent as if they were present.
ex, Oh death where is thy sting?

5. Allusion - a reference to a person, even, saying or thing from the Bible, history, literature,
etc. To put into the presentscene.
Ex.I wash my hands of the whole matter.

6. Metonymy - substituting one noun for another, the literal one, which it suggests because it is somehow associated with it. Ex. The Sabbath for Jews.

7. Hyperbole - an exaggeration for dramatic effect. Ex. A million thanks to you.

8. Meiosis - a positive understatement to emphasize what is stated.
Ex. I am a bit surprised because I am losing all the subject s.

9.Litotes - a mild negative understatement, intended to suggest strong affirmative statement.
ex. After seeing my report card, my father said in no uncertain terms I should start studying.

10. Synecdoche- a part us put for the whole.
Ex. Marching feet describing an army.

11. Irony - the opposite of what that it says.
Ex. Johnny, it is very good of you to talk while I am lecturing, I like that.

12. Analogy - the relation of likeness between two things,consisting a resemblance, not of things themselves, but of two or more attributes of effect.
Ex. His youngest son a thorn in his flesh.

So what is the problem here? Why are we trying to interprete them in hard way? It is but simple and like a little child receives the simple truth of Yahshua.

I suggest that in a simple review, we all need to go back to the basic review of our figure and parts of speech. Please read how to "study the scripture" , it is simple review and nothing is lost if we humble ourselves.

Sincerely,

ABYH

I must disagree since the Aramaic text clearifies this to be Yahueh and not Master or Soveriegn in these passages. This is probably why there has never been an Aramaic translation of the New Testament like the Hebrew Roots Version by Dr James Trimm is now putting out. www.nazarene.net Though some have questioned his credentials which he has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be false allegations. The Arian beliefs of most Yahuist prevented them from going with the Aramaic or Hebrew text that exist of the New Testament and to stay with the Greek text to try to keep up the fasade and false teachings about the make up of the Father in the Son. Yahushua is Yahueh and this can only be said by those filled with the Ruach ha Kadosh that love the Anointing teaching them instead of the false doctrines of men.

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David ben Yacob