Since scripture states emphatically that Yahushua should be worshiped as a deity (which He is) this tends to imply that Yahshua is a seperate person from Yah. But Yahweh your Elohim is ONE. So When we worship Yahusua we are actually worshipping Yahweh.

I'm saying that Yahushua is not a separate 'created' personality but a part of Yah - the WORD. Who existed with Yah from the beginning. And Yah is ONE!

I think many of us can attest to the fact that some NT 'scripture' (or the 'bible')was infiltrated. We even know that some verses were placed that did not exist in the original text. Many of these I would bet are key in the trinity doctrine.

Anyway, if Yahushua was created then He could not be a diety.

NO. He is a part of the deity of the Father Yahweh. And YAH is ONE!

Mesobaite, for all your zeal against paganism, I am surprised that you endorse the most detrimental pagan infiltration of Christianity - the trinity.

If you believe in the trinity, you believe that you cannot understand the relationship. If you believe that you cannot understand the relationship, then you cannot partake of that relationship. If you cannot partake of that relationship, then you are partaking of the spirit of satan.

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Originally posted by Roy_G_Biv:
Right, Lynn.

Mesobaite, for all your zeal against paganism, I am surprised that you endorse the most detrimental pagan infiltration of Christianity - the trinity.

If you believe in the trinity, you believe that you cannot understand the relationship. If you believe that you cannot understand the relationship, then you cannot partake of that relationship. If you cannot partake of that relationship, then you are partaking of the spirit of satan.

More to come.......

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Hi Roy

Mesobaite does not believe in a trinity. I believe you mis understand what he wrote.

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Originally posted by ana_yncaphil:
dear Trooper,

Greetings.

Created in His own image, because there was only One Image,original is the Father. Father created In Own image the Son. The Son created man/woman in His own image through the power of Yahweh. One Pattern of creating, according to its kind, elohimkind, mankind, animalkind.

Man as procreator, of course with a woman, creating babies/children. How come if they make babies can they be making another image, or image of beast?. The pattern is the same with head, with two ears, two eyes, looks like an image of a man, if the color of the father is black and mother is black, of course they will have black child, if the color seems to become white, then, question it, maybe the image of the neigbor.... ha ha ha.

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Thank you ana_yncaphil

It is good to see others who understand the deeper things of YAH!!

I believe where most get confused is they believe that the "Image" (first born) created and used to create man in the Image of Elohim, had it's own personality. But in fact it was just an image Yahuah used to create His people and redeem them too.

There is no way Yahuah could create man in His Image if he did not first create an image to create his people by, because He is invisible.

When most came from christianty to the true faith, they removed one from the trinity. They just have one more to go so there will only be ONE our Redeemer, YAHshUAH, YOD-HAY-Shin-WAW-ayin-HAY.

Shalom and YAH Bless!!

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Originally posted by Trooper:
Well said Mesobaite.

It is good to see others who understand the deeper things of YAH!!

I believe where most get confused is they believe that the "Image" (first born) created and used to create man in the Image of Elohim, had it's own personality. But in fact it was just an image Yahuah used to create His people and redeem them too.

There is no way Yahuah could create man in His Image if he did not first create an image to create his people by, because He is invisible.

When most came from christianty to the true faith, they removed one from the trinity. They just have one more to go so there will only be ONE our Redeemer, YAHshUAH, YOD-HAY-Shin-WAW-ayin-HAY.

Shalom and YAH Bless!!

[This message has been edited by Trooper (edited 06-18-2003).]

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Lynn, you said >>>>>>Yahshua was the first born of all creation. He was the First "born" and the Last "Adam"<<<<<

But what does that mean "first born"? Did Yah have a baby? What is being spoken of here, is Yahushuas resurrection. He was the first to rise from the dead from human form, and is thus the prototype for all believers. The following scripture below indicates what is meant by "first born":

" And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence." -Col 1:18

Hebrews 7:3 states: " Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually."

If you believe Yahushua was created, then He would be inferior to Melchisadek! (actually, I believe He is Melchisadek)

>>>>>>The beginning of the creation of God<<<<<< (Rev 3:14)

You are assuming that this means that Yahushua was merely the first of what Yah The Father created. But, in the Greek, this passage can mean that Yahushua iniated the creation of all things- He was the originating source of all creation -and this is confirmed in many other places, such as John 1:3, and Heb. 1:2.

And speaking of John 1:3: If the Word was with God in the beginning, and nothing was created without the Word, then it stands to reason that the Word existed before any created thing- thus the Word itself had to be eternal, and could not be created, since nothing was created without it!

Now you may say that the Word is an it, and not Him....but whatever this "Word" is, it became flesh and dwelt among men, and John beheld its'/His glory.

Right, Lynn.
Mesobaite, for all your zeal against paganism, I am surprised that you endorse the most detrimental pagan infiltration of Christianity - the trinity.

If you believe in the trinity, you believe that you cannot understand the relationship. If you believe that you cannot understand the relationship, then you cannot partake of that relationship. If you cannot partake of that relationship, then you are partaking of the spirit of satan.

More to come.......

Well said Mesobaite.
It is good to see others who understand the deeper things of YAH!!

My Reply: When we obey the words and things that Yahshua taught, we are obeying the Father, for the words Yahshua spoke were not his own, and the doctrine that Yahshua taught was not his own.

Yahshua is the likeness of his invisable Father.

Now you are saying what I'm saying but you still don't see it. Yes Yahushua is the Word of Yahweh. But what is the Father? How can we distinguish Him? In many ways! One of which is His word - the actuall spirit Word that emulates from His mouth. When Yah speaks we know its Him because only He would say the things He'd say.

Yahushua is that word made flesh. Can't you see. Yes, all the actual utterances Yah expressed before the 'immaculate' conception are what Yahushua is. So then He is Yah. But Yah is greater than Him (atleast while He was here) because Yah is comprised of more than just His word. But Yahushua is not a separate person. NO. He is a part of Yah. As is Yah's Spirit. You see Yah is comprised of many composites and His Spirit and His word are the main two that He has revealed to us.

OK look at yourself... You are Lynn. You have a mind, intelect, experiences and emotions. You have the ability to formulate words which are actually spirits that express your intent. If you had the ability to make your words 'become flesh' it would still be you because without you they would not exist. They are a part of you.

I see something in your words that suggest a possible problem in your perception of the issue being herein discussed.

You said:

>>>>>>BUT What I want to say is "Anyone who believes that Yahshua is YHWH the Father <<<<<<<

You have it wrong- Yahushua is not the Father. Yahushua was the "YHWH" of the OT- as we see in 1Corinthians chapter ten. Obviously, it was YHWH who was dealing with the ancient Israelites, and here, Paul is saying that they tempted "Christ"- thereby equating Christ with YHWH.

Notice to, that the Jews understood just what and who Yahushua was claiming to be- for when he said He was the Son of God, they accused Him of blasphemy, for "making Himself equal with God"- so they well understood that He was proclaiming that He was no mere man, or created being of God- but that He was indeed a member of the Godhead.

This is further borne out in Phill. 2:5-10 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6. Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7. But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8. And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10. That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Now the Fathers name may well be YHWH also- as that is the God name- and since the Father and the Son are both God, the name could apply to both- but that is the "God" name, but not the personal name- just as John Smith and Joe Smith might both be Smiths- but Smith is not the personal name of either, but the family name.

Isn't it your belief that Yahushua is not a mere man- but that He was created, and is not "God"?

If I have gotten you wrong about this, please forgive me- I have not read all the posts thoroughly- just skimmed.

Praise Yah! Thank you for straightening me out, my brother! We do believe the same thing! For some reason, I didn't get that idea reading your posts! But I am certainly glad to be straightened out.

Yes...I knew you are a translator- it must be great to be making a living doing Els work!

I would've taken you up on your invite, back in '87 when I lived for a year in Bishop, CA.

Hey....but i'm glad to know you through your posts!

Greetings in Yahweh's most Powerful Name given to the Son Yahshua, the firstborn of all creature, our Big Brother who had double responsibility of rescuing all who will have faith in Yahweh through Him.

Don't you know how I feel, I am so glad to read your understanding about Abba Yahweh and His Son, Yahshua, and His pre-existence? You made a strong support for the mis understood doctrine of His being part of Elohim family and could not be accepted by His own people, the Jews. An anti-Messiah are those who donot accept the Father and the Son.

Thank you very much of your postings, Lynn, Richie, Jay ar, who else...myself?.

ABYH

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I'm saying that Yahushua is not a separate 'created' personality but a part of Yah - the WORD. Who existed with Yah from the beginning. And Yah is ONE!

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