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Originally posted by leejosepho:
Well, KYMAK, I see you cannot.

Maybe I asked too much there, or maybe my "condition" was too restrictive, but either way, I cannot even imagine what good purpose reincarnation might serve anyone.

Peace to you ...

Joe

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Nothing anyone can say will convince those who have a closed mind on any particular issue.

Anyway, in one simple sentence as you requested and condensing what I said in previous posts on this topic:

The purpose of reincarnation according to the Bible is to redeem spirits in prison and to add experience to those who keep their first estate and second estate.

In Yahshua,

If you think you lived more than once, then you must have had several names for the past thousands of years.

Can a person be a girl and a boy over the past years?

In ideas or possibilities who all you might have been over the past years?

Do you think you or others might have even been an animal or a reptile at least once in the past?

If lived more than once "reincarnated", then do you think you will have your many past names written in the book of life, or in the Lambs book of life?.

Sister Amie

[This message has been edited by Amie Li (edited 11-26-2003).]

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Originally posted by leejosepho:
[Meso had] asked, “Hey lee, what do you think of Mathew 17: 10-13? It seems to me that Yahushua was comfortable with the idea of at least some form of re-incarnation in that He did not rebuke the disciples for their conclusion.”

Personally, I do not have any “thought” concerning the verses mentioned ...

However, I can tell you I am not at all comfortable with some of the conclusions being drawn from there ...

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Jim: As it seems quite clear to me ...

1) No thought on the matter;
2) Not comfortable with certain conclusions being shared.

... please explain why you say my above answer to Meso's question is "vague"!

You have written, "Nothing anyone can say will convince those who have a closed mind on any particular issue", and I hope you know I am not one who has a closed mind. For if I did, you and I would not be having this interaction!

Thank you for your response to my request for a single-sentence statement as to any alleged purpose for reincarnation.

Personally, and although I cannot prove your statement to be either right or wrong, I am still not inspired to put any stock in allegations of reincarnation.

Peace to you ...

Joe

I simply used the word "vague," because I know ot isn't true that you don't know how to answer his questions. What you did, was, you didn't take it upon yourself to answer anything - and I knwothat's not because you don't know the answers. Actually, lee, I believe you know just as well as I, that reincarnation makes no sense when the walk of faith, is the manner of salvation, so I don't know why you're holding back on this. Rather than get into just such a conundrum, I used the word, "vague." You may want o answer, or you may not want to. Frankly, I know not why, because unless one answers succinctly and correctly right now, when the Country is coming down about our ears, there may be people unable to look at the big picture, and then reincarnation might make some kind of sense to them.

There is only pne place in Scripture where you have gotten your answer, and I will note that answer, and then, where I think you got it:

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The purpose of reincarnation according to the Bible is to redeem spirits in prison and to add experience to those who keep their first estate and second estate.

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The "spirits in prison," is taken from 1Peter 3: 18-20:

"For Mashiach also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to G-d, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20: Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of G-d waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."

Now, what this is saying cannot at all speak to that which is called "reincarnation," and the reason is that if you believe that Yashua while dead, went anywhere at all, [and I will bite, and just for the sake of agreement, and to pick your brain a little more], why is it that He only preached to the spirits in prison "which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited inthe days of Noah?" If Yeshua was "going" anywhere, other than down into the grave [hades], why is it He only spoke to these alone? Did not those who walked away from the Tower of Babel after Yahweh confused the languages, important too? This was after the death of Noah, so why were those prediluvians more important than others after them?

Also, that concerning the first estate, never throughout Scripture speaks to humans, but only to those who fell from Heaven, and were of the angelic realm:

"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day" (Jude 6).

There you go. Now, I would if you please, explain why it is that those who were prediluvian were so important to Yeshua, that He only chose to go and speak to them alone, and also, where is it that "humanity's" first estate, and for that matter, second estate is suggested in Scripture?

Now, for the benefit of those who would think that maybe I am rethinking reincarnation, and this is the reason for these questions, No, not at all. Sometimes, if one would use something that is hazy in answer to a clear question, then for further clarification, one should ask another question, that the texture of the initial answer might be further graded.

Also you must be informed, that your answer does totally negate the beautiful plan of salvation, that was made before the foundation of the world, for your words above, tell us that the way to salvation, is not through Yeshua Mashiach, and walking in living faith in Him, but all is won, through reincarnation! How far you have fallen from the truth with this answer, KYMAK!

Reincarnation is a big time teachings of movie industries business. Tell me one of any of the people that can relay the exact happenings. NONE, or else, the New York twin towers should had been foretold by an individual who has power and magic....

There is one story of dead Prophet Samuel whom King Saul sought and enquired from a witch. There was someone who appeared like Samuel, but it was not him.

More later.

That would be the correct translation in view of John 11:26,

http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi ?word=John+11%3A26§ion=8&version=nas&new=1&showtools=1&oq=Jo+11%3A26

Joh 11:26 -
"and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die" …

Since, “the body without the spirit is dead” (James 2:26) then immediate reincarnation would assure the continuance of earthly life until the end of time when the resurrection occurs.

I find that the objections to any idea of reincarnation comes mainly from fundamentalist Christians; it is not objected to by those who know and follow the Torah and those who have not been indoctrinated to the contrary.

In Yahshua's name,

An Ambassador of Yahweh

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And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou? 20: And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not Mashiach. 21: And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No" (John 1: 19-21). So, John himself says he isn't Elijah! So JOhn says he is not, and Yeshua says [or seems that He says], he is! What else can we find to answer this mystery?
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SO we see that JOHn says he is not Elijah , where in that passage does it show they are talking a spiritual sense? Isreal was never looking for a spiritual eliyah to come they were looking for a physical eliyah to come.

** THat is why today they still have the custom of leaving a empty seat in a synagogue for elijah.

I hope somebody can explain john 9 and explain what the disciples were thinking when they asked yahshua that question.

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Originally posted by bedeyah:
I hope somebody can explain john 9 and explain what the disciples were thinking when they asked yahshua that question.

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It seems to me that John denied himself or did not realize who he was. However, Joseph Smith had a revelation that John was another Elias who had lived in the days of Abraham.

JS also had a revelation that John the Apostle was the Elias who was to come to restore all things. Obviously John the Baptist did not do that. The earth must be restored to the way it was at creation before Yahshua will come to reign. But that is another topic.

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Originally posted by B--Y--:
Hi there, lee!

I simply used the word "vague," because I know it isn't true that you don't know how to answer his questions.

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You are wrong, Jim. When I have an answer, I give it.

Any questions?

Joe/Lee

Yes, I do have a question - one that you haven't addressed from that which I wrote concerning the word "vague."

Can you please answer or respond to my post?

Blessings in Yahshua Messiah

Your remarks:

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Joh 11:26 -
"and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die" …

Since, “the body without the spirit is dead” (James 2:26) then immediate reincarnation would assure the continuance of earthly life until the end of time when the resurrection occurs.

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When Yeshua says the words, ". . . will never die," (John 11: 26, above), He isn't speaking about our falling asleep in first death, for as we all can see, if He were speaking fo this, He would be incorrect, for either yo live on another planet, where there is none falling asleep in first death, I see it all around me. Every day people are falling aleeep in death, so obviously Yahshua wasn't speaking about this at all. That death Yahshua speaks of above, is second death, which is the eternal separation of the rejecter of Yahshua the Gift of G-d to this world, from life, period.

Only if you see that Yeshua is speaking about first death, would you make the mistake that you've made with Scripture, because obviously again, if He is speaking of first death, then the life force must jump from a dead body into another living human body?, or if you want to take it farther, to a living something? Hinduism would teach that you could almost become anything that lives, from animal to insect, with a better life always received because of your living according to a higher calling in the last life. But again, Yahshua wasn't speaking of first death here, but second death, total separation from the life giver, forever. Those who live godly lives because they believe in the beauty of the everlasting gospel, and continue to walk in faith until their sleep death, will awaken at the voice of the Life Giver at His second coming, and shall then, never again die! Really, KYMAK, Scripture speaks absolutely nothing about reincarnation, unless you've had your mind corrupted by too much study in the Cabala, which is really esoteric mysticism, having no place in the life process of following the Saviour, Yahshua Mashiach.