quote:

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Originally posted by Yahwehwitnesses:
I for one clearly see the dangers associated with your persistent teachings and from your foundation.
...
Speaking for myself, these are not the kinds of people or techings that I want to have fellowship with.

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Yohanan: Are you aware of how often you switch audiences, subjects and topics within just one post? If you want to talk with a fellow poster, then do that. And when you want to speak to the rest of us, then do that instead. And when you feel compelled to either voice or defend some kind of "position" or whatever, then do that. But as one who can at times be quite a grandstander myself, I would report to you that at least in my own case its overall effect is seldom helpful to anyone.

Shalom.

quote:

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Originally posted by leejosepho:

Yohanan: Are you aware of how often you switch audiences, subjects and topics within just one post? If you want to talk with a fellow poster, then do that. And when you want to speak to the rest of us, then do that instead. And when you feel compelled to either voice or defend some kind of "position" or whatever, then do that. But as one who can at times be quite a grandstander myself, I would report to you that at least in my own case its overall effect is seldom helpful to anyone.

Shalom.

Joe

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That’s worth repeating.

I wonder what kind of education and background Yohanan has. I notice most of my critics do not give any information about themselves on their profile page. It would appear they do not know the first thing about the art of argumentation and logic and the fallacies they are committing; but I guess that goes to show that I am closer to the truth. I dare say they are a part of some group and are merely repeating what they think their esteemed leader would have them say about this subject.

I know it is a touchy subject with those who fear the unknown. The problem is one of fear and incredulity - the same thing that got Yahoshua crucified.

Let me say, I give my tithes to any and every group that has ever taught me anything whenever and to whomever I please. I am not tied to any group. I would even recommend that those of you who may be down on Catholics and any other Church to attend their investigators classes. I am alone in the world except for Yahweh and Yahoshua and the Holy Spirit. I have a few close acquaintances but very few if any real friends. I consider myself blessed from a New Testament view and definition of what a blessing is. My mother used to say I was cursed for keeping that “Old Jewish Law” which she called, “that religion crap”. I am sure my opponents would like her.

Let me repeat, I do not follow any philosophy of reincarnation; I only look at what the Bible says about the question with an open mind. With Yahweh anything is possible and no one can limit the Holy One of Israel.

The quote, "The dead (yoda) not anything" could be translated "learn". As I said no work or learning can be done by a disembodied spirit. We need to go to the original language in such cases and do a word study.

In Yahshua,
------------------
An Ambassador of Yahweh

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Posted by: KYMAK

Let me repeat, I do not follow any philosophy of reincarnation; I only look at what the Bible says about the question with an open mind. With Yahweh anything is possible and no one can limit the Holy One of Israel.

I doubt if your telling the truth. Your argumentations are on the side of reincarnation. Multiple life -- isn't that reincarnation? If it isn't then what do you call it?

P.S.:
Lee could you please settle your problem with Yonatan outside this forum. Such discussions are worthless and very disturbing. We are looking only for intelligent and worthy exchange of ideas.

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Posted by: KYMAK

Reincarnation is rising from the dead into a mortal body; The Bible uses the same Greek word for rising as for resurrection.

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If "reincarnation" is rising from the dead into a mortal, then what do you call the "return of spirit" to a mortal body?

You claimed that man can die several times ("eternal mortality") UNTIL he rights all his wrongs. Now, how come that Shaul writes in Hebrews that men dies only ONCE?

"And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment," (Hebrews 9: 27).

My Reply:

Joe, my post was addressed to KyMak "the person who made that post and who originated this topic, and who was teaching falsely".

Most others here have also replied with various personal concerns and/or disagreements against KyMak's persistent reincarnation teachings, and other information that he has brought to our attention within his own topic.

You are the only one in this post who is off topic, and you're once again casting stumbling blocks against me without proper cause.

We come here to have fellowship with our true brothers and sisters in the Word of Yahweh. We do not want to feast with, or to have fellowship with satans spirits of error.

KyMak admitted that he was ordianed as a so-called Ambassador by Dr. Joseph Jeffers, who is also known and documented as a false prophet and cult leader that shares his same false teachings in this subject.

There is love and tough love. I rebuke satans spirits of error and his cults, and I will expose their false teachings and confusions when I recognize them, especially if they repeatedly attempt to lure others into their darkness and teach against the Word of Yahweh.

It's not my job to save anybody, but it's my duty and desire to share the love of the truth according to the scriptures, and to prove all things.

Shalom in Yahweh,

quote:

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Originally posted by JayAr:
Lee could you please settle your problem with Yonatan outside this forum.

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JayAr:

Peace to you.

I have no problem with any individual here or anywhere else. If you look closely, you should be able to see that I occasionally address issues related to certain interactions *between* human beings, but that I neither defend nor attack the actual people doing the interacting.

Joe

quote:

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Originally posted by Yahwehwitnesses:
... you're once again casting stumbling blocks against me ...

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Yohanan:

That is quite a set of charges to make. Do you have any evidence to support it?

Peace to you ...

Joe

You wrote: Yohanan: Are you aware of how often you switch audiences, subjects and topics within just one post? If you want to talk with a fellow poster, then do that. And when you want to speak to the "rest of us", then do that instead. And when you feel compelled to either voice or defend some kind of "position" or whatever, then do that. But as one who can at times be quite a grandstander myself, I would report to you that at least in my own case its overall effect is seldom helpful to anyone.
Shalom. Joe

Joe, I'm not in your forum, and I don't admire your above posting advises that you have directed towards me. Who is the "rest of us" that you are speaking on behalf of?.

I obide by the Rules and Policies that EliYah has made for all of us that wish to post here with our desire to seek, and share the Word of Yahweh.

Can you please drop this once and for all, or stop posting to me?

Thank you,

Brother Yohanan

quote:

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Originally posted by Yahwehwitnesses:
Joe ...
Can you please drop this once and for all, or stop posting to me?

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No, I cannot, for this is about matters of character. To wit:

RE: Reincarnation and Scripture

Peace to all.

The first problem here is exposed in the very title of this thread: “Reincarnation and the Bible.” For to the uninformed many, “The Bible” and “Scripture” are often viewed as being the same. However, the term “The Bible” is far better used in reference to man’s many “interpretive translations” of Scripture.

Nevertheless, one of the first responses posted in this thread was this:

“Most of us wouldn't want a Scriptural study to offset the words that are plentiful on the first URL given ...”

I do not know exactly the entirety of what was meant by that statement, but it sounds to me like a bit of a warning was being given that we not here open a can of worms without at least exhibiting some great caution.

In any case, next a clear warning was posted:

“Do not be deceived brethren. Yahweh would never gives the chance of bashing His only Son again and again and again ...”

Then after that, a distracting rhetorical spin was posted:

“Hebrews 9:27 ... has an ‘is’ that could be and is elsewhere often translated ‘was’ from the Greek text. Then it would be, ‘it was once appointed unto men to die’ ...
“Joh 11:26 – ‘and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die.’ Do you believe this?"

I do not know how many people here already see this, but there is where this discussion turned from a question about reincarnation and Scripture to a matter of religious debate. To wit:

Someone had posted, “I find that the objections to any idea of reincarnation comes mainly from fundamentalist (immature) Christians; it is not objected to by those who know and follow the Torah.”

It was at that point for the first time in this discussion that a comparison between human beings came up, and that is exactly what followed:

Someone posted, “The word believes doesn't mean just ‘believe that he existed/exists’. Satan believes that Yahshua exists, but he doesn't believe/trust in Yahshua. Believing in him means that you will follow, obide, set your faith and trust in/by/of him.”

In other words, someone had decided that someone else is on about the same level as Satan in at least as far as the matter of mere belief is concerned, and so a rhetorical – religious – personal attack was launched:

“Personally I find your posts to be disturbing or confusing to me ...
“I'm not trying to pick on you, but ...”

How many people here understand that the word “but” just above essentially wipes out any statement preceding it?

But to get back to the point, it was next asked of that poster, “What about the topic in discussion? Can you respond to my last post beyond the irrelevant point on believing ...”

But, evidently not, for just a little later on we can read:

“I'm trying to find out what and who you are, and what exactly what your trying to share or influenece in here.”

Did you notice that? ie: “I'm trying to find out what ... you are ...”

But with all of that aside, far later in this thread, I have posted:

------
quote:
Originally posted by Yahwehwitnesses:
“... you're once again casting stumbling blocks against me ...”

Yohanan:
That is quite a set of charges to make. Do you have any evidence to support it?
------

And as you can all see above, and in spite of the fact that a major portion of this thread is about personal character and intent and so on, no clear response to the specific question posed has been given.

So then, shall I now be summarily deemed “guilty as charged”, or will anyone here hold another accountable for his implication that a millstone awaits me?

Is anyone here who understands the matter of character and decency among us willing to speak up?

Blessings to all,

Joe

PS: Any idea that there is any kind of reincarnation ahead is absolute hogwash. For if there was any such thing awaiting anyone, surely it would be mentioned in Scripture, and maybe even also in “the bible”.

Glad to see that you are back from your trip in good health and spirit.

You stated: Is anyone here who understands the matter of character and decency among us willing to speak up?

Reply: I think you are doing a fine job in addressing the situation. No anger, emotion, name calling, etc. YHWH has put into your heart to make a point. I am not sure whether or not it will be made...it will all depend on if you get real responses to your questions. The biggest problem with this forum (my opinion) is that people pick and choose which questions they want to answer and forget the rest. Usually it will be only the questions they have an answer for and the others they will "forget about". For those that do that on a regular basis, I just do not converse with.

As for the "charges against you"... I do not even see a second witness to the charge. If YHWH thought it enough to have 2 witnesses to bring a matter to judgment, then I would think this would be "groundless" at this point.

Very good perceptions in other of your posts.

Shalom,

JourneyHome

quote:

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Originally posted by JourneyHome:
Shabbat Shalom leejosepho,

Glad to see that you are back from your trip in good health and spirit.

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Thank you, and may this also be a blessed and peaceful Shabbat for you, JH!

Dear Lee Josepho,

I have worked with Yahweh Witnesses missionaries and Brother Yohanan several times in the past.

Brother Yohanan has much education and on-hands experience dealing against cults and false religious teachings.

It's very clear to me what raised the red flag concerns in this post. Mr. KyMak topic and reincarnation teachings are very consistant with new age cult beliefs. KyMak thereafter mentioned that he was ordianed as an ambassador by a known cult leader Joseph Jeffers. KyMak still calls himself that ambassador and his teachings and foundation are also that from Joseph Jeffers.

Maybe you don't recognized the dangers associated with new agers and this particular cult, but I do.

Do the children of Yahweh knowingly want to have fellowship in this forum with people who are rooted into cult sects?.

I find it rather strange that you suddenly came into this post against Brother Yohanan, as he had provided plenty of proofs against Kaymak's false teachings, and links to confirm who Mr. Joseph Jeffers really is.

I also noticed that you copied only partial statements of what Yohanan posted, in attempt a tricky to make your point.

As far as I can see, this post had nothing to do with you, and you are out of line to come against Yohanan for sharing the truth.

Let it be known to members of this forum that Lee and has had an outside relationship with Daron [former Trooper] in his own forum for over a year, and that Daron's ministry has attacked several members of this forum over the years. When Yohanan tried to put a stop to it, Daron and Joe teamed up against him. Brother EliYah is apperantly aware of Daron, and also I see that Lee is under current warning. http://www.eliyah.com/forum2/Forum10/HTML/001472.html

Darons "truth restoration ministry" Web site is also found on many of the [exact same new age cult awareness groups right under Dr. Joseph Jeffers "Yahweh's New Kingdom ministry".] Is that just a coincidence Joseph?.

The last time you had a problem with Yohanan is when you suddenly came into defend Daron. So who are you trying to defend now, and why?

You are a deceiver, and I know exacty why you and a certain other here are trying to attack Yohanan, as I have seen some of those e-mails when I was working at Yahweh Witnesses.

Why don't you guys leave here and stop causing problems in this forum.

Blessings in Master Yahshua

Sister Amie Li

quote:

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Originally posted by Amie Li:
It's very clear to me what raised the red flag concerns in this post.

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Greetings to you, Amie Li.

Actually, I share bro Yohanan's concern that "raised the red flag" concerning certain things posted here, and I have made my own statement that any thought of reincarnation being Scriptural is nonsense. However, I also question Yohanan's "personal attack" (as I perceive it) on another poster here, and your allegations against me in reaction to that are completely false.

Nevertheless, peace to you,

• James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
• James 4:14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.
  

What is life? It is even a vapor, that appeareth for a little time and then vanisheth away. Brethren, Satan would like many to think that they have another chance after death, but for the sinner there is no such thing. We have the hope of life after death. Christ himself has promised us eternal life if we overcome.

Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.