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Originally posted by scooter11:
I certainly didnt intend to cause a problem, I also use Yahway and Yeshua in my speech, what I intended to show was the Jewish usage of this name, It is just information I knew and thought everyone would enjoy it. I agree with the guidelines set forth by the forum and didnt mean to mean that I disagreed. I apoligise if I caused a problem. What I gave was the historical usage of the name by Jewish Rabbis when the Temple was standing, and didnt mean the way we use it was wrong, I personally dont know for sure if it is or isnt, but I use it also.

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Heya Scooter,

I have to say you confused me initally to with your previous post. Perhaps it might be a good thing to qualify your post when you want to just make information known about Jewish tradition. Maybe by saying, "According to Jewish tradition..." Because they way you wrote your previous post does seem like you agree with using Adonai or not saying YHWH.

I understand your dilemma though. I had done the same thing...I was trying to convey a point and had EliYah thinking I didn't believe in the usage of the true names.. LOL!

But I get what you were trying to say now.. thanks a lot for clearing this up.

I take it that you were born a Jew ?

Thank you for that explanation, but I am actually more confused now than I was before. Are you saying you weren't substituting "God" for "YHWH"?

When you wrote, "Although God Himself is absolutely unknowable and unnameable," were you not substituting "God" for "YHWH"?

Also, if the Almighty is "unknowable," why is it okay to teach others to know Him, as per Jeremiah 31:34 - "And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know YAHWEH: for they shall all know Me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith YAHWEH: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

And if He is "unnameable," why did He reveal Himself to His people by name, and how is it that "His people shall know His name"?

Take care and may YHWH bless!

In the love of Yahweh through His Son Yeshua the Messiah,
Larry

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Some of you may be interested in reading about a dictionary compiled by a researcher who agrees that the English "God" is ultimately traced to the Canaanite idol of fortune. The name of this dictionary is The Word: The Dictionary That Reveals the Hebrew Source of English, published by SPI Books, New York. It was compiled by Isaac E. Mozeson and originally published in 1989.

What follows is Isaac Mozeson’s listing under the heading “GOOD/GUD" on page 80 of his dictionary:

ROOTS: Anglo-Saxon god and German got go back to the IE root ghedh (to unite, join, fit). The IE root echoes dg / (O)GUD (to unite, fit together), but dg / GUD (fortune, success — Genesis 30:11) fits the common use of GOOD well enough. Good in Arabic is gayid.

BRANCHES: That GOD is GOOD (and really TOGETHER) ought to be implied by the similarity of these Germanic terms. The same dg / GUD (good fortune) above is the name of a deity mentioned in Isaiah 65:11. The given IE root for GOD is Gheu(a) (to call, invoke).

This is a spiritual issue that cannot be discerned in the physical. What I mean is, a person can agree that Yahweh is the true name of the creator and then still revert back to God after concluding (falsely) that it is just his Hebrew name. Only the spirit of Yahweh can convince you otherwise it seems. I think its particularily due to two human errors 1) pride: "...there is no way I could have been so wrong for so long..." and 2) fear: "...the fear of living in this world without conforming to the God of this world. The fear of being an out cast..."

And you said it Mesobaite,

Also see this address and read about this paganism, and how satan has deceived the WHOLE WORLD into worshipping him IN THE LATTER DAYS( Rev.13:3-4, and verse 8) through his deception( Rev.12:9)..

http://classiclit.about.com/library/bl-etexts/jfiske/bl-jfiske-myth-4.htm?terms=Theos+Zeus

And so will I agree with Larry on this 99.9% that " Gad=GAWD=GOD=GUWD" is the same Babylonian deity in ( Isa.65:11).

This is not written to harm anyone, however, for to tell you the truth, but sometimes the truth hurts too.

Elyahc= Eljah C.

Based on that dictionary entry, do you believe we should not say "good" as well? Would you say "YHWH is good"? When the KJV has Messiah saying, "There is none good but one, God", is "good" an unacceptable translation and if so, what is a better reading? (I know "God" is not acceptable).

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Originally posted by scooter11:
I wish to apoligise to all for my error. What I posted was a copy and paste, The word God was already there and I dont think I even noticed it til I was informed, please forgive me

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Scooter,
You don't need to apologize to anyone. You clarified what you wrote, albeit after the fact. I have done the SAME exact thing...written from a perspective to make a point and ended up having someone think I believe that particular way.

Everyone...and I mean EVERYONE makes mistakes. Like I said, if you can just simply remember to qualify your statements with something like, "According to such and such..." before your post that would help some or even at the end writing (this is not my own personal opinion). And yeah, sometime I know you will forget..I know I do..

If you are quoting something there is no reason why you should have to alter that quote that is changing someone's words and I don't think that is something we are supposed to do. A person's words are THEIR words and they have a right to not have them altered. If it says God or god or Gad or gad, then that is what it says. Why should you have to make apologies for something you didn't even write ?

As long as you follow the rules here, then you have every right to post just like everyone else here has the right.

Take care Scooter.

Missy

You wrote:

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Based on that dictionary entry, do you believe we should not say "good" as well? Would you say "YHWH is good"? When the KJV has Messiah saying, "There is none good but one, God", is "good" an unacceptable translation and if so, what is a better reading? (I know "God" is not acceptable).

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I reply: I believe you have asked an excellent question. I will give you my own personal answer, but I consider this to be more of a "gray area," unlike the issue regarding Yahweh's titles. I believe we have to "draw the line" somewhere, and I personally draw the line with regard to the titles we use in reference to YHWH. There is simply no Scriptural precedent for referring to Him with a title that was originally the name of a heathen idol. For that reason alone, I believe those who are opposed to the position I hold should "stand down," so to speak. There is no approved example of anyone in Scripture ever doing such a thing, and even in our own human understanding this comes across as dishonorable. I have already listed examples of what I mean by this, so I will let it go at that.

But what about the word "good"? I am aware that some of the most respected etymologists (by the world's standards) have written such things as "God and good are old, but unrelated Teutonic terms." This is a quote from Dictionary of Word Origins, p. 168, by Joseph T. Shipley. However, as you astutely noted, Isaac Mozeson's research obviously led him to reach a far different conclusion than the one Shipley reached. I believe I should point out that Joseph Shipley reviewed Isaac Mozeson's dictionary and he offered the following comments:

"The Word is a challenge to linguists. The parallels traced seem beyond the range of coincidence, and call for a reexamination of our etymologies."

The above quote can be found on the back cover of Isaac Mozeson's book. As you can see, this leading etymologist (Shipley) believes Mozeson is "on to something" with his research. This is something I believe all of us who are open to understanding regarding this issue should be willing to consider.

I realize I still haven't answered your question, but I wanted to give my answer a little foundation before giying you my reply. With all the above in mind, I will tell you that I personally do not refer to YHWH as the "good Mighty One" or any such term. This is why I LOVE that song entitled "YAHWEH IS AN AWESOME EL." Even by English definition, the word "good" is a comparative adjective that is considered "less favorable" than the words "better" and "best." Well, I believe YHWH is the BEST. He is way, way better than "good."

I find it interesting that Thayer's lexicon shows that the Greek word translated "good" (agathos) is a word that in its original sense means "to wonder at, think highly of." It also conveys such meanings as "excellent, distinguished, upright, honorable, benevolent, kind, generous, and excelling in any respect." I believe that even the inherent Greek meaning of this word does a better job of conveying how awesome, upright and worthy of honor our Heavenly Father is than does the common English translation.

Now with all that having been said, I realize someone is going to suggest that I am opposed to using the word "good" in everyday speech. This is not the case. I simply do not use it in reference to YHWH, at least not since I read the results of Mozeson's research. I am trying to "clean up my act" on that one!

It is a matter of fact that if any of us were to eradicate all English words with connections to heathen worship, we would pretty much have to trash the entire English language. Here are just a few of the words I have personally found to be connected to the names of heathen idols:

vitamin
morbid
martial
happy, happen
set
cereal
chronology
money

These are just a few that just now popped into my head. I'm not suggesting that we eliminate all such words from our vocabulary, although that would certainly be wonderful. What I am suggesting is that we avoid using any such words as titles for Yahweh. In fact, I believe it plainly dishonors Him whenever we do such a thing. On a personal level, I try to refrain from using any such words even when describing YHWH.

I hope this helps to answer your question, and thank you for your participation in the discussion.

Note to Scooter: I, too, appreciate your latest response. We're all human here! May Yahweh bless!

In the love of Yahweh through His Son Yeshua the Messiah,
Larry

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Though you never asked me that question I will give an answer, however, I do not speak for Larry either.

You said """
""""Based on that dictionary entry, do you believe we should not say "good" as well? Would you say "YHWH is good"? When the KJV has Messiah saying, "There is none good but one, God", is "good" an unacceptable translation and if so, what is a better reading? (I know "God" is not acceptable)."""" Unquote.

In Strongs this Greek word used in the verse you quoted is number ""18 ""agathos. a prim root word good( in any sense, often as noun- BENEFIT, good thins WELL, comp. to 2570, ==Kalos of uncertain affin.:prop BEAUTIFUL, but chiefly ( fig) good( or literally or mor) ie- VALUABLE or VIRTUOUS(For appearance or use, and thus distinguished from 18, which is prop.-INTRISTIC) BETTER, FAIR,GOOD(LY), HONEST,MEET, WELL, WORTHY."" Unquote of Strongs.

As you can see, a more correct translation would be that YAH is MORE BEAUTIFUL, VIRTUOUS, BETTER, FAIR, HONESY, WORTHY, than any mortal fleshly human being.

There are better and more correct words to use for translation than " good" since it is a corruption from the word " god ", however, we are not talking about substituting HIS NAME with the figuratively word "good " that is applied in that verse from Messiah, and we can see from the original meanings what Messiah really meant in His statement.

This also proves again, that the translators in " translation " of the K.J.V. and other English versions chose to use "" the word that fit their day and time", and also proves that when " translations " are made from thee original, that much of the true meaning is hidden from WHAT the writer really intended to his readers to really understand and really what Messiah meant for His listeners too.

So, yes there are better words to use in that verse that gives the verse more meaning and intent of what was being meant by the origial writer, and what Messiah really meant for His listeners to really know compared to mere men.

Shalom,

We cannot trash the entire English language which is used everyday,however, we should know the difference about these words when talking to men of certain words that is connected to pagan origin deities, but we should not not use them in substitute or in connection to YHWH in worship of Him in spirit and truth,which proves that we seek to HONOR YAHWEH with our ALL as He is BETTER and VIRTIOUS, WORTHY, and BEST compared to mere men, and we should HONOR Him with our best as we have learned from His original words of scriptures that He desires of us, which is not too much to ask of us since He is uncomparable to mere men, and I think this is what Messiah really meant to His listeners, and to show The Desciples.

For is He not that worthy for us to give Him our best and all, as He is the ONLY ONE that is all VIRTIOUS, HONEST, WORTHY, and the BEST to Honor ?

Yahweh bless,

Elyahc= Eljah C.

[This message has been edited by Elyahc (edited 01-08-2006).]

I pray you are feeling much better today!

You wrote:

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For is He not that worthy for us to give Him our best and all, as He is the ONLY ONE that is all VIRTIOUS, HONEST, WORTHY, and the BEST to Honor ?

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I reply: Amein! I believe you have nailed the "bottom line" issue here. Thank you for sharing.

I guess when we call Yahueh or Yahushua our Malak it is not our best either?
Especially when before vowel pointing it is spelled exactly the same as Moleck or the King worship where to prove your loyalty to the king parents burnt their firstborn child up to Molech/Malek.

I will never agree with you that the name of GAWD is connencted with GOD and even if it was I would not agree with you that as a title in English it is not one of the best titles we could use. It is an one of the best terms used in English to descibe generically just as Elohim is used the Supreme Creator Yahueh!

In the commentary you issued below, you further demonstrate that you have never read the study that June and I wrote. I only mention this because we addressed the title malak in that study. Here is what you wrote:

You wrote:

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Larry, Mesobaite, Eliyahc,
I guess when we call Yahueh or Yahushua our Malak it is not our best either?
Especially when before vowel pointing it is spelled exactly the same as Moleck or the King worship where to prove your loyalty to the king parents burnt their firstborn child up to Molech/Malek.

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I reply: As with titles such as Elohim, Adonai, and Baal, the title Moleck was an honorable title for Yahweh long, long before unregenerate heathens corrupted it. As with everything else you bring up, I also addressed this very issue in the study that June and I wrote. Here is an excerpt:

This same historical pattern is characteristic of the title molech. In I Samuel 12:12 we read,

“And when ye saw that Nahash the king of the children of Ammon came against you, ye said unto me, ‘Nay; but a king shall reign over us: when Yahweh your Almighty was your king.”

The spelling of the Hebrew word translated “king” in the above verse is identical to the spelling of the name of the Ammonites’ chief deity, Molech. The only notable difference between these two words lies in the vowel pointings, which weren’t added until the seventh century CE. Thus, if we were to transliterate the Hebrew word translated “king” in the above verse without the vowel pointings, it could certainly read “...Yahweh your Almighty was your molech.”

I believe it is safe to say that Yahweh was the true molack long before reprobate man dreamed of naming an idol “Molech.” What do you think came first, David?

You wrote:

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I will never agree with you that the name of GAWD is connencted with GOD and even if it was I would not agree with you that as a title in English it is not one of the best titles we could use. It is an one of the best terms used in English to descibe generically just as Elohim is used the Supreme Creator Yahueh!

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I reply: The fact that you officially express that you will "never agree" really tells me all I need to know about the mindset I am dealing with here. The very thought that someone would uphold a title that, any way you slice it, is traced to heathen worship, is repulsive to me. Nevertheless, if you could actually offer any compelling evidence in support of your stand, I would do my best to listen to what you have to say instead of ignoring everything.

In the love of Yahweh through His Son Yeshua the Messiah,
Larry

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