OK. Eliyah can address it or be silent. That's good to know.

Thank you for the email address, that was a thoughtful gesture.

But I don't want to contact him privately. Since it was public, I'd prefer it remain in the public domain. If it was for private reason between the two, I don't need to know it.

My biggest concern is to protect the authority of the board at all hazzards, according to Eliyah's sermon preached on Saturday, which was right on and awesome.

I'm sure you can understand that.

quote:

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Originally posted by GregO:
KC...hold on...I KNOW you didn't write anything I was referringn to...I'M so Sorry of my post hurt your feelings! Please forgive me.

Look at my FIRST SENTENCE...

"The ***flip side*** of this position is..."

This means everything I'm saying is the opposite of what you wrote about!

Sorry for the confusion.

I was holding your post up as the standard, and then contrasting it to the flip side or someone who thinks they ar following Yahweh's command, but are not--to those thinking they are doing Yahweh's will, but are not.

Why is everyone's defenses up in here? What's going on?

Greg

[This message has been edited by GregO (edited 11-12-2007).]

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Then I see where you are saying FLIP-SIDE, and I do understand. So you're giving the contrast side of things, the opposing side of things, right?

Thanks,
KC

How many husbands or wives ask their husband or wife to do one thing, but rather than doing that simple request, he or she will ignore it and go out and buy a gift or give a "surprise" to the other spouse, but then the spouse wonders, "That's wonderful, but I wish he or she would listen to what I really asked for."

It's the same thing with Yahweh. We are to lose ourselves FOR CHRIST'S SAKE, not our own sake, and not a family member's sake.

Phony and uninspired self-sacrificing in the name of Yahweh's will is one of the worst sins we can commit, and it is so evil, that Saul was immediately removed from office for committing the sin just once.

I believe after considering the topic the last few days that the Christmas issue can get into that kind of sin if we are not prudent and careful. If I'm wrong, and Yahweh is offended by honoring his Son's birthday, then I'll stand corrected.

The jury is still out deliberating.

:-)

I'm not sure if this is off topic but I felt like sharing this with some friends this morning. I got it from a good friend several months ago. But people seem to really enjoy it so I thought I'd share it with you and others here:

http://www.icitc.org:80/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/AppLogic+FTContentServer?pagename=FaithHighway/Globals/DisplayTextMessage&PROJECTPATH=10000/1000/728&sermonid=textsermon_1110862555612&custom erTypeLabel=Weekly&sermontitle=Unoffendable,%20Part%202

Unoffendable
Part Two
Francis Frangipane

"Then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another . . . and because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold" (Matt. 24:10-12 KJV).

The Sequence That Leads To Apostasy
In our last teaching we looked at offenses and examined the lethal effect an offended spirit could have upon our lives. We discussed how the only way to not be permanently offended was to attain the unoffendable heart of Jesus Christ.

Attaining Christ's heart is not a minor issue. Remember, Jesus warned that, in the last days, "many" would be offended. A wounded spirit is not the same thing as an offended spirit - an offense occurs when we do not process our wounds in a Christlike manner. Indeed, an offended spirit, left unattended and brooding in our minds, will soon manifest as betrayal, hatred and cold love. Jesus said offenses would be the ultimate cause that leads many to fall from faith. Listen well: Jesus linked the real cause of apostasy not to wrong doctrines, but wrong reactions.

Aren't right doctrines important? Of course, but we can have right information and still have a wrong response. Doctrinal information can be upgraded and refined, but Proverbs warns that someone "offended is harder to be won than a strong city," and "contentions" between people "are like the bars of a castle" (Prov. 18:19).

Yes, beware of false leaders, but more deceitful than false prophets or teachers is our own heart when it is offended (Jer. 17:9). Are you living with an offended heart? If so, you are gradually slipping away from true Christianity, which is known for its agape love.

Thus, dealing with an offended heart is vital in maintaining ongoing spiritual maturity. For this reason, we need to look again at the things that offend us.

False Expectations
Unrealistic or exaggerated expectations inevitably will cause others to fall short and offend us. Some desire their spouse or pastor or friends to meet their every need. However, at the deepest level, our soul was created to find its security in God, not man. When the Almighty truly becomes our security, our peace flows from our awareness of His love and unlimited capabilities. As people who put their confidence in God, we can live comfortably with imperfect people around us.

Still, the very power of our expectations can choke out the sweetness of a personal relationship. Suppose that, instead of burdening people with our expectations, we simply learned to appreciate them for themselves - no strings attached. What if we approach family and friends with gratitude for what they are doing rather than disappointment for what they failed to do?

Suppose that a husband, instead of expecting a full course dinner from his wife each night, learned to appreciate whatever she was able to offer him? Then, instead of his failed expectation degrading into an offense, there would be a living, sincere appreciation for the food his wife prepared. I know we have arrangements by common consent, but in reality, a wife is under no obligation to cook special meals or do housekeeping. You did not marry her to be your housekeeper, but to become one with her.

Or imagine a husband who works a long, tiring job. However, his wife expects that he will work another two hours at home or go shopping with her or listen attentively about her problems. What if, instead, she welcomed him at the door and sincerely thanked him for daily giving himself to support their family? What if she met him, not with demands, but with appreciation? Perhaps she might even massage his shoulders and, because of love, have his favorite meal prepared.

You see, expectations can seem like legitimate aspects of a relationship, but they can also cause us to be disappointed and offended when people fall short. I have known situations in the past where my expectations actually blinded me to the efforts being made by a loved one. They were trying to improve in an area I was unaware of because my focus was preset upon a different expectation. I should have been grateful and encouraging.

Of course, today I discuss issues and expectations with those close to me, but the weight of my expectation is not on others, but upon myself to be Christlike and sensitive to those around me. I put a premium upon enjoying the uniqueness of others, sincerely thanking God for their contribution to my life.

When God Himself Offends Us
The fact is, false expectations can become a source of many deep offenses. However, one of the worst offenses we can suffer is when God Himself purposely offends us.

In 2 Kings 5, we read the story of when Naaman, a Syrian general, sought to be healed of leprosy by Elisha, the prophet. When Naaman and his entourage arrived at Elisha's house, Elisha didn't greet him personally, but instead sent his servant with a word/cure for Naaman. It was a simple assignment for the military leader: wash seven times in the Jordan River. However, the cure offended Naaman. Why didn't the prophet himself come out? Why this muddy Jordan? Scripture says that "Naaman was furious."

An offended spirit is an angry spirit. In this case, Naaman was beyond mad; he was furious. Do you find that you are always mad at a particular person? It's because they have offended you and you haven't forgiven them. Naaman was offended at Elisha, but what was the real cause of Naaman's offense? Listen to his words. He said, "Behold, I thought, 'He will surely come out to me, and stand and call on the name of the Lord his God, and wave his hand over the place, and cure the leper'" (v. 11).

Catch the phrase, "Behold, I thought . . ." In truth, Naaman was not offended by Elisha, but by his own failed expectations. He probably spent many hours envisioning the moment of healing. He even pictured himself testifying of how the man of God healed him. When it didn't happen according to his plan, he was offended.

Friends, before the Lord heals you or assigns you some new, elevated position of service, He will often offend you. Why? What is it that gets offended in us? Usually, it is our pride. We come to God desiring physical healing, but the Lord wants us not only to be healed, but to be humble. Yes, God heals us through our faith, but there our times when our own pride keeps us from receiving the method of God's healing. The Lord offends us to humble us, so He can give us grace. Faith works through grace, but God only gives grace to the humble.

Look at how often Jesus offended people before He healed them. Once, He actually spit on the ground, made mud and put it on a blind man's eyes, and then told him to walk across town that way! Imagine if you were next in the healing line and saw what the guy before you had to do. Admit it, we each would be looking for another healing ministry, one that is a little less offensive! On another occasion He told a woman who came seeking her daughter's healing that she was an unclean dog; another time, He stuck His fingers in the ears of a man to heal his deafness. The Lord often offended people before He healed them.

If we would learn to humble ourselves in the offense, we would discover that the apparent offense was, in realty, a door that led into the manifest power of God. When Jesus called the Canaanite woman a "dog," instead of being offended, she said, "Yes, Lord, but even the dogs feed on the crumbs" (Matt. 15:27). When Jesus told the man to walk across town with mud in his eyes, the man didn't argue or ask for a more dignified healing; he humbled himself and came back seeing. When Elisha told Naaman to dip in the Jordan seven times, the offense wounded him. Yet, when he humbled himself, his leprosy was replaced with the skin of a little child. His skin became as a child, because his heart, through humility, became as a child.

Maybe you haven't received your healing or breakthrough yet because to walk the path set before you is beneath your dignity. Maybe you need to get rid of your dignity and go to that Pentecostal or Baptist church you've been making fun of, then ask them to pray for you. God wants to heal you, but He also wants to renew and transform you with His grace.

Overcome Offenses
When we study what Jesus taught, it is obvious that He came to make us "unoffendable." Consider: He says that if someone slaps you on one cheek, offer him the other. He said to love our enemies and bless those who curse us. What He's really doing is showing us how an unoffendable heart of love overcomes all adversity.

We pray, "Lord, I want to change." To answer our prayer, He sometimes must put us in situations that perfectly offend us. The offense itself awakens our need of grace. Thus, the Lord precipitates change by first offending the area of our soul He desires to transform. He does not expect us to merely survive this adversity, but to become Christlike in it. Ask Joseph in the Old Testament: the "land of offense" became the land of his anointing and power. Listen my friends: the destiny God has for man unfolds or dies at the junction of offense. How we handle offense is the key to our tomorrow.

"Those who love [God's] law have great peace, and nothing causes them to stumble" (Ps. 119:165).

Lord, grant me that new creation heart that can walk as Jesus walked, through a world of offenses without stumbling. I want to see everything as an opportunity to pray, everything as an opportunity to become Christlike. Lord help me to interpret offenses as opportunities that lead to transformations. Grant me, Lord Jesus, the pulse and beat of Your unoffendable heart. Amen.

www.frangipane.org

However, I did find out some mistakes that I made throughout the years. We cut our daughter off from doing x-Mas just really quick. She was six years old then. We all went cold turkey, so to speak. But through the years I've learned from being around others, that it's best when you have a young child to do things a bit differently. For instance, you can say, No x-mas tree this year, but you'll get presents. That helps ease them out slowly. Then many people give their children presents during the Tabernacles, which we did that first year that we didn't keep x-mas. Our daughter got presents every day that year for Tabernacles. After that year, though, we didn't give gifts that way. We decided to do it as we felt it. I thought about the giving of gifts a lot of times, and gifts should be more spontaneous. It worked out well, because she always got gifts spontaneously. Well, in her growing up, she was a very good daughter.

But she has left the way, married military, and doesn't want to do the things that she was brought up doing. This happens! You must bring them up in the way they should go, then when they're older, they may come back to it! If they have the word implanted into their minds and even though they may turn away from it, lots of times when they figure it all out, then they'll come running back. So I must trust the word of Yahweh!

In other words, we don't force people to keep Yahweh's ways. Yahweh doesn't do this himself. He wants each of us to make our own decisions about how we walk. We are required to teach them in the way when they live at home, and she understands that teaching. Hopefully, much of that became implanted into her mind. Does it hurt me? Yes. But I have to trust in the teaching that she received and hopefully entered into her mind. The whole choice has to be up to her now. I know people who have left this, then came back to Yahweh because they realized what they had already been taught while growing up that it's the only way of truth and the other way is stupid.

Anyway, my last x-mas. My husband and I had already just started learning about truth several months before Dec. of 1989. This has been so many years ago to me now. I have to really think back. When we heard about x-mas was pagan, my first words were, Does this mean we have to stop keeping Christmas? How can we stop keeping Christmas? This is horrible!

Well, my words were similar to that. So even though we were still learning more about the Sabbath (didn't know the name then), we started also studying about x-mas. We went to the library, found out it was pagan. However, I kept trying in my mind to reason out ways to keep it. haahaa! I firmly know how people reason it all out in themselves. I was thinking of all kinds of ways to legally keep it, but none of the reasons worked out. For everything that I thought of, there was always a conflicting reason not to keep it. My husband didn't have the same problem as me. He already knew it was a sham, although his was just moneywise. But that first few months of finding this out, we decided to keep it that last time until we found out more about it. What a mistake!

Well, the week before x-mas, I had a horrible kidney infection, had to go into the hospital for 5 days. I got released x-mas eve. But I was still pretty ill. Our family came out for x-mas, just my mother-in-law and sister-in-law, one of my sister-in-laws. And a different sister-in-law that wasn't there, had given me a brand-new Bible for x-mas, to which I rejoiced, and which my other-sister-law made fun of the whole time. It was just bad stuff going down then.

Here's the real kicker. I wasn't hardly ever sick before this, then I got that stupid kidney infection right before x-mas. But the doctor put me on a low-grade antibiotic to take for one month, starting after the x-mas holidays and start it on a Monday when I got back to work. Fortunately, at the time, I worked at a hospital otherwise I'd be dead now. I started my low-grade antibiotic, Bactrim, right after, just as he stated, when I got back from x-mas to work, and I had a horrible reaction from that. When I say "reaction," it's not a mild reaction. My throat started closing up, I turned as red as can be, couldn't breathe good, started shaking all over, I was having a severe allergic reaction and they had to put me in observation for many hours and give me all kinds of shots, etc. I almost died from that allergic reaction from a medicine that I had never been allergic to.

Something in my mind after all this mess told me that someone was talking to me. One can call it coincidence or whatever, but it was still too strong. But that last x-mas that we kept was horrible, and I never tried to reason out in my mind on how to keep it again. The more that I researched it after that time, the more that I said to myself, this stuff is serious in our Creator's mind, don't do it. It's really kind of scary to me the way that it happened, and it sure made an imprint in my mind, that's for sure.

Hey, thanks. I enjoyed that article, especially noticed this part about the massage:

Or imagine a husband who works a long, tiring job. However, his wife expects that he will work another two hours at home or go shopping with her or listen attentively about her problems. What if, instead, she welcomed him at the door and sincerely thanked him for daily giving himself to support their family? What if she met him, not with demands, but with appreciation? Perhaps she might ***even massage his shoulders*** and, because of love, have his favorite meal prepared.

Great article about learning to deal with sinless offenses.

One thing the author doesn't write about it, and I hope you don't mind that I add it, that a righteous person will be naturally offended by sin, and is actually suppose to feel anger, so that it protects him or her from being a part of sin.

Yahusha and Yahweh are also angered by sin, but their mercy is so strong, most of the time we don't see it. Likewise, when we walk in forgiveness of others, the anger due to sin is quickly dealt with, by forgiving the person and walking in mercy. One must make a judgment call whether Matt 18 is followed to confront the offense due to sin, as Yahusha instructed.

I looked carefully, and all the examples given was for sinnless actions that caused offense, and if we get angry for that kind of stuff, we need to re-examine our feelings and correct it. The article gives nice direction to work on that human weakness.

Thanks,
Greg

I'm glad you liked the article. What you said:

quote:

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One thing the author doesn't write about it, and I hope you don't mind that I add it, that a righteous person will be naturally offended by sin, and is actually suppose to feel anger, so that it protects him or her from being a part of sin.

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My friend recently told me that Grace isn't passive, but a consuming work of Yahweh which produces fruit of the Spirit. So is that like what you are saying how grace will protect us from participating in sin sometimes?

Shalom,
Renae (you can call me that )

quote:

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Originally posted by GregO:
Classic example of manipulation by twisted sermons:

The twisted sermon:
Luk 4:3 And the devil said to Him, “If You are the Son of Elohim, command this stone to become bread.”
Messiah's sermon:
Luk 4:4 But éäåùò answered him, saying, “It has been written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of Elohim.’ ”1 Footnote: 1Mt. 4:4, Dt. 8:3.
and you know the rest of the story.

Both using the scriptures - who is doing it rightly?
Well the answer is a no-brainer in the case of satan and Messiah but it gets a little fuzzier between humans. right

Squart,

Thank you so much for bringing up this scripture. Please note the pattern Yahusha uses in dealing with the devil. Did he say, "Uh...that's not true, it really means this," and then quote scripture. Did he argue with him? No.
Did he disrespect him? No.

Here's the reason why he did what he did. Yahushua respected teh Word of Yahweh, even thought the devil was misapplying it. He simply responded again
from the Word what he believed, without saying, "You are wrong." How could he say "Devil, you are wrong," and at the same time NOT disrespect the Word of Yahweh Elohim? For what the devil said was the truth, the Word of Yahweh.

Think about it.

Notice in contrast when he rebuked Peter in Matt 16, last of teh chapter. Peter was NOT speaking the word of Yahweh, or quoting scripture, so he said, "Get thee behind me Satan, for you savor the things of man and not Elohim."

Oh, may we as believers honor the Word of Yahweh as much as Yeshua did!

Greg

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Shalom Greg

REALLY GOOD POINT! I see it.

And I just thought of another one

Jud 1:9 But Miḵa’ĕl the chief messenger, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Mosheh, presumed not to bring against him a blasphemous accusation, but said, “יהוה rebuke you!”

Thank you for bringing great honor to the word of YHWH
I will seek to do likewise and presume not.

quote:

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Originally posted by KittyCat:
[B]Thank you, Missy! I do appreciate you telling me that. Thing is, I guess that I've toughened up on the x-Mas experience myself. We found out about the paganism of it many years ago now and have had many years to work through it.

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Oh it's no problem. I just felt that I needed to let you know someone understood what you meant and didn't take what you said as a negative.

quote:

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However, I did find out some mistakes that I made throughout the years. We cut our daughter off from doing x-Mas just really quick. She was six years old then. We all went cold turkey, so to speak. But through the years I've learned from being around others, that it's best when you have a young child to do things a bit differently. For instance, you can say, No x-mas tree this year, but you'll get presents. That helps ease them out slowly. Then many people give their children presents during the Tabernacles, which we did that first year that we didn't keep x-mas. Our daughter got presents every day that year for Tabernacles. After that year, though, we didn't give gifts that way. We decided to do it as we felt it. I thought about the giving of gifts a lot of times, and gifts should be more spontaneous. It worked out well, because she always got gifts spontaneously. Well, in her growing up, she was a very good daughter.

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Yeah, I think that's very difficult with children. Once you start them a certain way it's quite difficult to then change it. It looks inconsistent to children. And when that's done children tend to loose respect for authority. But I do agree that you can't just snatch children from something they have always know just because YOU get a revelation! LOL! You have to ween children and I don't find it inappropriate when new believing parents do that with explanation to the child. This is why before my husband and I had even got serious about conceiving a child we MADE SURE that we were certain about our faith and what we would and wouldn't allow for our child. So our son has never known anything BUT YHWH's Appointed Times and non pagan holidays. He loves Pesach (Passover) because he helps me with the food and he likes to activities we try to get him involved with a lot! And he likes Chanukkah for instance. He LOVES Chanukkah.. he loves lighting the menorah and playing the Dreidel Game. Plus he goes nuts over these round gourmet chocolate balls we allow him to have during that time. And we read a nice story about why we keep the Festival of Lights But I recognize that we were blessed to have had that opportunity to come to the knowledge we have now before we had our son. So I do sympathize with parents that didn't have the opportunity we were blessed with and I don't take it lightly when someone is trying to teach their child to put away pagan days like Easter and Christmas, etc. I really feel for people in that situation.

quote:

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But she has left the way, married military, and doesn't want to do the things that she was brought up doing. This happens! You must bring them up in the way they should go, then when they're older, they may come back to it! If they have the word implanted into their minds and even though they may turn away from it, lots of times when they figure it all out, then they'll come running back. So I must trust the word of Yahweh!

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You know that's the difficult thing about letting children go. Children grow up and make their own decisions and we can only pray to Yah that whatever they do it's pleasing to HIM. And of course, as parents we want in our heart so badly for them to make the right choice, but alas..it's THEIR CHOICE to make..not ours. So we have to take a back seat with grown children. So who knows.. those things have been implanted in your daughter.. she just may very well come back to her roots soon, YHWH is a merciful. But at least she does know about "The WAY" as you put it. A lot of people don't know anything about it, never heard of it, and don't care to learn about it.

quote:

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In other words, we don't force people to keep Yahweh's ways. Yahweh doesn't do this himself. He wants each of us to make our own decisions about how we walk. We are required to teach them in the way when they live at home, and she understands that teaching. Hopefully, much of that became implanted into her mind. Does it hurt me? Yes. But I have to trust in the teaching that she received and hopefully entered into her mind. The whole choice has to be up to her now. I know people who have left this, then came back to Yahweh because they realized what they had already been taught while growing up that it's the only way of truth and the other way is stupid.

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Well I don't think anyone can force anyone to keep the ways of YAH. It's a choice and even if someone is forced, YAH knows a person's true heart whether they mean it or not. Now given, I do think parents need to set boundaries in their home. Like in our house, as long as our son lives under our roof, he will keep the Appointed Times of YHWH along with the family, PERIOD. My husband and I already decided that before our son was born. But in our case, it won't seem foreign to our son, because like I said he's been raised this way since he was born so we don't have to re-teach him anything. But adults are different. All you can do with adults is tell them the truth of what Scriptures say and pray for them. You can't force them to do anything and it's a waste of time to try. But I do think believers have a duty to tell the truth to others though. And I don't feel ashamed at all to tell the truth about these pagan origin days and that Scripture says not to learn the way of the heathen. Now I don't go around criticizing people that do these pagan days but I certainly make it known when an opportunity arises if I am asked to tell why my family doesn't keep them and what the days we do keep are about. As a matter of fact, I just explained it to one lady at the grocery store today when she asked me, "SO are you getting all ready for the holidays ?". That started a great conversation and was an intro into spreading the truth about YHWH'S Appointed Times. My husband also does it at work. People ALWAYS ask him about his faith at his job because my husband reads a lot..so he's always walking around with a book like "The Sabbath" or "The True Names", or "The Scripture" either in his hand or back pocket sticking out! LOL! And of course..people want to know what he's reading and it gives him a chance to witness for YHWH. But we don't try to "force" our view on anyone. We are very much of the mindset that if YAH wants someone joined to him, they will be. So we don't try to evangelize people at all. But are happy to explain or tell what we know if an opportunity comes up.

quote:

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Anyway, my last x-mas. My husband and I had already just started learning about truth several months before Dec. of 1989. This has been so many years ago to me now. I have to really think back. When we heard about x-mas was pagan, my first words were, Does this mean we have to stop keeping Christmas? How can we stop keeping Christmas? This is horrible!
Something in my mind after all this mess told me that someone was talking to me. One can call it coincidence or whatever, but it was still too strong. But that last x-mas that we kept was horrible, and I never tried to reason out in my mind on how to keep it again. The more that I researched it after that time, the more that I said to myself, this stuff is serious in our Creator's mind, don't do it. It's really kind of scary to me the way that it happened, and it sure made an imprint in my mind, that's for sure. KC

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WOW, what an ordeal! But I am glad YHWH used that opportunity to show you what he wanted you to see. My goodness though.. praise YHWH you are well now! And I know a lot of people's first reaction about not keeping the unholi-days (LOL) is shock and devastation. They think it's horrible because it's usually the time people see family and friends. And people seem to be in a more festive mood and so forth. I mean on the surface they do look like harmless days..but the truth of the matter is that they are not. And that MUST be acknowledged by believers according to Scripture.

But a lot of people reason it out in their minds and on one hand I can see how they do. I think it was easier for my husband and I because we were so annoyed with those days anyway! They actually made us sick every time they rolled around. LOL! And my husband always thought it was wrong to keep those days anyway because he used to tell me, "Well I never read about any of them in the Bible...I just go along with you because they seem important to you!"

And then I told him, "Well they make me sick, I just do them cause my mom made such a big deal about them when I was a kid but in my mind it's is ALLLLL commercialism because none of these days are actually about what the Bible says anyhow because I read in high school how these stupid days are really pagan days anyway! I told him, "People are meaner this time of year than any other..just try to go to store on Black Friday..people are pushing and shoving, even throwing little kids out of the way in order to get toy or a piece of clothing that's on sale..it's insane!" My husband told me that he knew the same thing that these silly days had roots in paganism and it ALWAYS bothered him to participate in them that's why he never did as an adult until he met me and he just felt like he'd go along cause they were important to me. And so we both mutually agreed we wouldn't celebrate another one of those silly days until we got to some truth of the matter.

And of course, Praise YAH..that started us going down the path to learn about Leviticus 23 cause my husband kept mentioning that he knew there was some passage in the Bible that talks about what days were we really are to keep..he said, "I think the Jews keep them." Of course, that's been many years ago now.. but we did learn A LOT from the Jewish religion that helped us with our faith now. And we learned even more once we became associated with Messianic Judaism and even MORE once we became aware of Sacred Name Messianics. And by that time we were already keeping Shabbat, Yah's Appointed Times, had stopped eating unclean. And praise YAH all this happened before we had our son and we were very well versed in our faith by the time I got pregnant.

And with us, we've never had the desire to go backwards becaue our alliegance to YAH is greater than some fun we may or may not have in this life keeping some days Yah didn't even set apart with family and friends which we couldn't stand doing anyhow! If family and friends REALLY want to get together there are tons of other days in the year to get together! And I really think what's helped us (my huband and I) is that we grew together in the faith. We learned each step together as man and wife. And I think having that partnership really helped us be eachother's encouragement to not look back. But I know it's much harder for people where one spouse gets it and the rest of the family doesn't. I've heard many stories to that effect and it's heart breaking. It practically rips the family apart and a lot of times divorce because the other spouse just never sees it and resents the other spouse for trying to promote it. It's rather sad. So I don't take it lightly when I hear stories like that and I pray for people in this situation because I can only imagine the hurt and pain they endure.

quote:

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Originally posted by naesimo:
Sharon,

We will pray for you and your brother.

If somebody says you are judging your brother without cause like a Pharisee then somebody else says: you can't judge them for judging your brother without cause, then somebody else is telling me how to act or speak towards the one unfairly judging my brother.

If you don't like Pharisee then I can use Torah Terrorist or Bible Bully. But other people get to say all kinds of rude, demeaning, abusive, patronizing, condescending, things but then they say you can't judge them for being rude, demeaning, abusive, patronizing, and condescending. But then they were those things because they were treating their brethren badly. So it seems like somebody is being told how to act or speak one way or another.

Shalom,
Renae

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I do appreciate your prayers for my brother and I.

I understand what you are saying about somebody is always telling somebody.

It would be nice if people didn't judge things that truly weren't their business but I have noticed in my own experience that for some reason I felt I needed to have an opinion about everything or I thought it would mean I was brain-dead or something.

I am just coming to the realization that it is not a fruitful activity to go around sticking labels on everything (mentally). This is good, this is bad, this is YHWH, this is the devil and so on. It just is and it is even without a label or name or judgment.As Shakespeare said
What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;

It takes a lot of time and energy and it gives a tremendous amount of power and control to my brain/mind to make all these judgments all day long (mentally).

So I am kicking the habit! LOL

Thanks again for your prayers and friendship
Shalom
Sharon
Shalom

You don't have to feel like you were judging me, I did want to talk about what happened with A's family and I wasn't interested in saying whatever Sharon did/does with her brother that's what we'll do, only that I feel like what guidance YHWH gives to you we could also benefit (like sharing your talents). I wanted your opinion so you please don't feel bad you said something. We made it your business so please don't feel bad for saying anything. I'm glad I posted about it and if people say I don't know what to tell you but people just pray then that's okay.

I'm sorry if asking you about your brother further put more stress on you.

I like the quote from Shakespeare too.

Thank you for your prayers and friendship and being you again. I feel like we put our two cents in together again and we made poetry again . Maybe we didn't figure out exactly what to do but we know more about each other and I hope that doesn't make you uncomfortable but that we are closer.

Yep. I see it too. Nice scripture to add. Thanks!

Greg

PS. Best way to deal with the devil is walk in the Torah law as Yahushau reveals the Spirit of it to us. Just observe very closly every approach, every action, every Word Yahusha spoke and did. Absorb it. His humble Way is 1 million times more effective than a deliverance ministry.

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Yeah, I think that's very difficult with children. Once you start them a certain way it's quite difficult to then change it. It looks inconsistent to children. And when that's done children tend to loose respect for authority. But I do agree that you can't just snatch children from something they have always know just because YOU get a revelation! LOL! You have to ween children and I don't find it inappropriate when new believing parents do that with explanation to the child.

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Hi, Missy:

Our daughter was 6 when we stopped keeping it. My husband and I sit down and told her that we lied about Santa and all that stuff. That was difficult to do. But she did handle it very well. It was just hard telling her that parents had lied to her. To little kids, they trust you and believe that Santa mess until they reach a certain age.

Anyway, I never heard my whole life that x-mas was pagan. I grew up going to the Methodist church, so maybe that's why. I always think about this verse in 1 Pet. 1:18, ...knowing that not with corruptible things, silver or gold, were you redeemed from your worthless way of life handed down from your fathers...

Actually, we inherited lies from them and it just keeps on going and going on in a vicious cycle. Look up the words to this verse. The last part means this:

G3970
patroparadotos
pat-rop-ar-ad'-ot-os
From G3962 and a derivative of G3860 (in the sense of handing over or down); traditionary: - received by tradition from fathers.

That was a Green's translation, but look it up in KJV and other Bibles.