Matt. 5:18-29:
18 “For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done. 19 “Whoever, then, breaks one of the least of these commands, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the reign of the heavens; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens.

I love this scripture right here, because it shows that even those that break the least of the commands and teaches men so will still be in the reign of the heavens. HalleluYAH! Therefore, because I believe participating in these traditional ritual worldly holidays is sin for me does not mean that if others do not believe it is sin will be condemned to "hell". Yet does Yahuah have partiality with these days? In other words, does He say - "It's okay if you do and it's okay if you don't" ? The truth of it lies in the Scriptures, in what has been said concerning the traditions of men. Now personally, I believe in a rational discussion over any topic that we should apply Scriptures to what we believe. In other words, reason from the Scriptures, line up line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little. So I feel that we should prove all things and we should have Scripture to back what we speak.

Romans 14:14-23:
14 I know and am persuaded in the Master Yahusha that none at all is common of itself. But to him who regards whatever to be common, to him it is common. 15 And if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not by your food ruin the one for whom Messiah died. 16 Do not then allow your good to be spoken of as evil. 17 For the reign of Elohim is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Set-apart Spirit. 18 For he who is serving Messiah in these matters is well-pleasing to Elohim and approved by men. 19 So, then, let us pursue the matters of peace and the matters for building up one another. 20 Do not destroy the work of Elohim for the sake of food. All indeed are clean, but evil to that man who eats so as to cause stumbling. 21 It is good not to eat meat or drink wine, nor to do whatever by which your brother stumbles. 22 Do you have belief? Have it to yourself before Elohim. Blessed is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts, if he eats, is condemned, because it is not of belief, and all that is not of belief is sin.

Would we say that Sha'ul here is referring to that which is in the Torah and the Prophets? Such as the laws and the prophecies? I would say the laws still exists, they have not been done away with, except with the changing of the priesthood comes a change in the law. Are the prophecies concerning the end-times nullified because of our belief? And who is the wrath of Yahuah intended for in the last days? Those who are in obedience to His commands?

We could say that someone who keeps these days are making others stumble or we could say those who do not keep these days are making others stumble because they "are not showing love" for their family members. See how it could work both ways? If we approve of something for ourselves does that make it right in the sight of Elohim? In other words, Sha'ul is talking about eating and drinking but that still does not make a pig clean, does it? If one believes that a pig can now be eaten does that nullify the command that tells us not to eat them? In like manner if one believes that keeping the traditional ritual holidays of the world is okay, does that nullify the Scriptures that show the contrary? Is obedience to the Word part of our belief?

~Greg

p.s. Missy - did you happen to listen to Doc Marquis from the post I left earlier with the link? I would be interested in your opinion.

I can tell that you are a patient and caring teacher, with sincere concern for sheep and them being led astray. Comes in handy with folks like me . I think we are understanding each other. What you wrote reminded me of when Peter had his vision and didn't know what exactly YHWH was saying about food and being clean and unclean. But He wasn't declaring unclean food clean in the vision but He was declaring men clean by belief and trust in Messiah's shed blood?

That's what David is saying right:

quote:

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Our flesh is not going to get any prettier in the sight of Elohim because we keep Sabbath, don't eat pork, or because we don't touch a woman in "niddah." There is no value in keeping those commandments IF, IF, IF, the keeping is our way of trying to make our flesh righteous. This is why:
Isaiah 64:6 KJVR But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

We are made clean via the blood of the new covenant, not following outward ordinances.

Acts 10:28 KJVR And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but Elohim hath showed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Next time you are tempted to be out of some level of fellowship with someone over being "unclean," you should know it is not from Elohim - but a religious spirit having you depart to the right.

Some of you have little fellowship in person in your lives because you've gotten off track over practicing Torah, and why and for what reason. Hopefully Elohim is so gracious to correct you as Peter and the Jews in the first century. If you dis-fellowship over these things, you probably also have a condemning attitude towards people who trust in Messiah for justification and remission of sins, but don't keep certain commandments (most likely appointed times and dietary being the "biggies" in your eyes). Let us look at the reaction of the Jews when the promised Holy Spirit came on Romans just as readily/graciously as the Jews in Acts 2.

The issue in Acts 15 is over the same problem - Jews who believed in Messiah wanting to make everyone just like them, or saying they can't have life in Messiah. It is the "If you don't keep these commandments, you can't be in Messiah" argument. Paul and Barnabas were having a lot of trouble from these trouble makers (causers of strife among the brethren due to their causing arguments everywhere they went over legalities). So, they go to Jerusalem to get a decision from the apostles of the Lamb and pastor James, and the elders at Jerusalem. What was the decision? "We write this letter to you unclean gentiles to stop being so sinful and start keeping every letter of Torah now! Or you shall not have life in Messiah but be utterly destroyed!" No. That isn't even close to what they wrote. That sounds more like what a religious spirit would tempt us to think/say/write. The Holy Spirit led them in quite another direction for their decision.

---

Rom 1:13 And I do not wish you to be unaware, brothers, that I often purposed to come to you, but was hindered until now, in order to have some FRUIT among you, as also among the other gentiles.
Rom 2:14 For when gentiles, who DO NOT HAVE the Torah, by nature do what is in the Torah, although not having the Torah, they are a Torah to themselves,
Rom 2:15 who show the work of the Torah written in their hearts,their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or even excusing,
Rom 2:16 in the day when Elohim shall judge the secrets of men through יהושע Messiah, according to my Good News.

Is what I put in bold saying the Gentiles didn't know or have all the Torah but by nature do what is in the Torah the same as this???:

Psa 37:4 And delight yourself in éäåä, And let Him give you the desires of your heart.
Eze 36:26 “And I shall give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you. And I shall take the heart of stone out of your flesh, and I shall give you a heart of flesh, Eze 36:27 and put My Spirit within you1. And I shall cause you to walk in My laws and guard My right-rulings and shall do them. Footnote: 1See 11:19-20, 37:6-14, 39:29.

To me that's the same as what this is saying:
Gal 5:22 But the FRUIT of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, trustworthiness,
Gal 5:23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no Torah.
Gal 5:24 And those who are of Messiah have impaled the flesh with its passions and the desires.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

Shalom & love,
Renae

quote:

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Originally posted by Watchman555:

p.s. Missy - did you happen to listen to Doc Marquis from the post I left earlier with the link? I would be interested in your opinion.

[/B]

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Yes.

I think it's good for people that can receive it. But the truth is.. not many can. Most will listen...and it will go in one ear and out the other because they've already made up in their minds what's justified for them.

But I think it could be a good stepping stone teaching tool for people that ACTUALLY are interested in learning something in order to CHANGE their ways and are SERIOUSLY interested in becoming joined to YHWH.

But those individuals are few and far between because alliegance to others and other things one holds dear in the heart is usually a greater pull and of more significance.

Yeshua knew this and made reference to it:

Lukas (Luke) 14:26 "If anyone comes to me, and doesn't hate his own father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he can't be my talmid.

Mattithyahu (Matthew) :

12:47 One said to him, "Behold, your mother and your brothers stand outside, seeking to speak to you." 48 But he answered him who spoke to him, "Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?" 49 He stretched out his hand towards his talmidim, and said, "Behold, my mother and my brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, he is my brother, and sister, and mother."

Mat 19:21 Yeshua said to him, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me." 22 But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sad, for he was one who had great possessions. 23 Yeshua said to his talmidim, "Most certainly I say to you, a rich man will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven with difficulty. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of Elohim."

Mat 19:29 Everyone who has left houses, or brothers, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, will receive one hundred times, and will inherit eternal life.

thank you

A simple y/n would suffice.

quote:

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Originally posted by naesimo:
Can anybody tell me if I've been saved yet? It would really help me to know if I've been saved yet.

A simple y/n would suffice.

Thanks,
Renae

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Shalom Renae,

Please read the Chapter of John 3. Note the Verses 16, 17 & 18.

Also if a person truely repents from their sinful life and ask Yahushua to come into their heart and be their Messiah, Yahushua will indeed come to you.

This is not to say a person won't sin now and then; Yet they will pray for forgivess from Yahweh when they do sin. (Believe me you'll be more aware of it when you do sin.) All have fallen short of the Glory of Yahweh. In other words mankind can not be saved by our "Works" or even following every law of the Torah. It takes having a repentful heart and asking Yahushua to become our Savior. For no human is perfect and without sin.

From there we read our Bibles Daily; Pray and Talk to Yahweh and truely try to follow in Yahusha's footsteps. In other words, He is our teacher, the more we strive to be like Him, the better for us. (Again, remember works won't save you; Faith and Repentence will.)

If you ask Yahweh to send The Holy Spirit upon you, then the Holy Spirit will guide you. (You're going to make mistakes, please don't beat yoursef up over it if you do. Ask the Father Yahweh, for forgiveness and have the faith that He indeed will. Remember the Holy Spirit will be there to guide you.

Now some people may expect a "sudden feeling" to come over them. Don't be dissapointed if you don't get a warm and "fuzzy" feeling. It's all based on FAITH in Yahweh.

It is a Free Gift, that Yahushua Messiah came to give us, if only we accept it.

I hope this helps answer your question.

May Yahweh Bless,

quote:

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Originally posted by adelore:

Shalom Renae,

Please read the Chapter of John 3. Note the Verses 16, 17 & 18.

Also if a person truely repents from their sinful life and ask Yahushua to come into their heart and be their Messiah, Yahushua will indeed come to you.

This is not to say a person won't sin now and then; Yet they will pray for forgivess from Yahweh when they do sin. (Believe me you'll be more aware of it when you do sin.) All have fallen short of the Glory of Yahweh. In other words mankind can not be saved by our "Works" or even following every law of the Torah. It takes having a repentful heart and asking Yahushua to become our Savior. For no human is perfect and without sin.

From there we read our Bibles Daily; Pray and Talk to Yahweh and truely try to follow in Yahusha's footsteps. In other words, He is our teacher, the more we strive to be like Him, the better for us. (Again, remember works won't save you; Faith and Repentence will.)

If you ask Yahweh to send The Holy Spirit upon you, then the Holy Spirit will guide you. (You're going to make mistakes, please don't beat yoursef up over it if you do. Ask the Father Yahweh, for forgiveness and have the faith that He indeed will. Remember the Holy Spirit will be there to guide you.

Now some people may expect a "sudden feeling" to come over them. Don't be dissapointed if you don't get a warm and "fuzzy" feeling. It's all based on FAITH in Yahweh.

It is a Free Gift, that Yahushua Messiah came to give us, if only we accept it.

I hope this helps answer your question.

May Yahweh Bless,

---

Adelore,

I appreciate you responding.

I have felt warm and fuzzy, felt a strong presence. That someone had us deep in their thoughts and prayers. I thought of it as a feeling of shalom.

I am going to have to take some time away from the board.

I would like to talk to you but I didn't see your email anywhere.

Thank You!

One indeed judges one day above another, another judges every day alike. Let each one be completely persuaded in his own mind. He who minds the day, minds it to Elohim. And he who does not mind the day, to Elohim he does not mind it. He who eats, eats to Elohim, for he gives Elohim thanks. And he who does not eat, to Elohim he does not eat, and gives Elohim thanks.
Rom 14:5-6
It is good not to eat meat or drink wine, nor to do whatever by which your brother stumbles. Do you have belief? Have it to yourself before Elohim. Blessed is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. But he who doubts, if he eats, is condemned, because it is not of belief, and all that is not of belief is sin.
Rom 14:21-23

I share this because many times when we are asking ourselves if something is right or if we look for someone to back us up in what we are doing, it is because we have doubt.

Something for those who are choosing to celebrate christmas for whatever reason, please don't get offended by the exhortations of those who do not celebrate christmas. These brethren who exhort apparently understand the origins and are offended by the paganism that has become a second-hand celebration for the birth of Messiah. And they are also in the position of wondering 'should I share the truth about this holiday or should I not for fear of hurting my brothers and sisters or for fear of sounding self-righteous or for fear of making them feel unacceptable?' I am sure everyone here has been in this position at one point or another regarding other matters of holiness. As joint heirs, we all have that struggle of not wanting to condemn our brethren but at the same time not wanting to compromise for fear of being labeled as a judge or hypocrite,Yahweh have mercy on us all. We must all understand the need to be pleasing to Messiah is going to be offensive to others at times. He said He came not to bring peace but a sword when it comes to following Him wholeheartedly.

As far as christmas itself, I do think that one has to be careful in justifying the day as holy or set apart. If you participate, so be it. But again, be fully persuaded in your own minds unto Elohim.

I would like to share a little of my experience when I was finally at the point of having decided not to celebrate christmas. At the time, I was working in an office with an unbeliever. He and a fellow believer were having a discussion about christmas being a christian holiday. I made mention to this unbeliever that I was a christian and that I didn't celebrate christmas. He took an interest and said that he was a pagan and showed me a tatoo on his leg that was a symbol of the pride and the seriousness he had about being a pagan. He said that christians really irritated him because they christianized his pagan holiday and it wasn't even the day 'Jesus'(his word) was born. He began to share what he knew about the more accurate time of when Messiah was born.

I know it's something a lot of relatively new believers struggle with every year and it's hard on them. Reading threads like this make me thankful for the blessings YHWH has given me and my husband. I thank HIM, that my huband and I both were believers before we had a child so our son has never known what it's like to participate in pagan origin days. So we don't have to worry about later trying to reverse those things like a lot of families turned believers have to deal with constantly.

Everyone has to get to that point of being able to put away those things in order to follow YHWH's WORD...it's the difference between spiritual maturity and yeilding to the flesh. And that's not always easy, especially because of the love and bond a lot of people feel for their families. But a choice has to be made:

In the Scriptures Yehoshua (Joshua) related this to the children of Yisra'EL:

Yehos 24:14 Now therefore fear YHWH, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye YHWH.15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve YHWH, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve YHWH.

Only YOU can make the decision about who you will serve. People can give all the advice in the world but until an individual makes up in their mind what's more important to them, they will ALWAYS struggle with these issues. Ever year it's inevitable, someone posts how they are STILL struggling with these pagan origin days because they don't want to disappoint family. What about disappointing YHWH ? Isn't that why you've made the choices that you have to leave Christianity or to leave certain ways that you knew and practiced before behind like eating unclean foods for instance ? Why is this different ? Is alliegance to these things greater than one's love for YAH ? What's really the difference between celebrating these pagan origin days and eating pork ? Both are things YHWH has said expressly not to do and that's no matter how much ,"I love YHWH and he knows my heart" rhetoric you attatch to it.

Now I know this post will upset a few people, rub some the wrong way, and no doubt I will be labeled a negative Pharisee (which is fine by me..I've been called worse). But if I am labeled one.. then in essence you label YHWH one as well.

YHWH is the one that came up with the direct commands: "SEPARATE THE PROFANE FROM THE SET APART","PUT DIFFERENCE FROM THE CLEAN AND UNCLEAN", and "LEARN NOT THE WAY OF THE HEATHEN", not me.

All I am doing is pointing it out and that's why true believers do.. point to the WORD OF YAH to help others see light rather than patting them on the pack to go ahead and do things contrary to YAH's WORD or saying, "Well my family doesn't do it...but if you do..I guess that's you".

The Scripture does say:

Jas 5:19 Brothers, if any among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death, and will cover a multitude of sins.

AND concerning ALL SCRIPTURE:

2Ti 3:16 ALL SCRIPTURE is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction which is in righteousness, 17 that the man of Elohim may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

And if a person is in opposition to all of that.. a question has to be asked: How can you be in opposition Yah's word and not him ? You can't. YHWH directs his people make separation between certain things and not to learn and do certain things the heathen does:

And here are some references in plain English:
Leviticus 10:10
Leviticus 22:2
Leviticus 22:15
Ezekiel 22:26
Ezekiel 44:23
Jeremiah 10:2-25

And really this is how you know the difference between Yah's children...and children belonging to another... because YHWH's children are called to be set apart, and keep his Sabbaths, and his covenant. His children are not called to participate in profane things to please man whether it be themselves or another man (family, friends, co-workers, your boss, etc).

And for those of you that like to site the Messiah all the time concerning the love he brought and etc. EVEN the MESSIAH SAID THIS:

Messiah said:

Mat 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Messiah also made it known who is in his family as well :

Mat 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. 47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

May YHWH bless those that are able to receive his actual WORD without bias and let all of true Yisra'El be edified.

M

Should we Celebrate Christmas?

http://www.eliyah.com/paganexp.html

Should There Be Idolatry in Our Worship?

http://www.eliyah.com/idolatry.html

quote:

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Originally posted by Missy:
Here are two perfectly good articles by EliYah for those seriously struggling with these things :

[b]Should we Celebrate Christmas?

http://www.eliyah.com/paganexp.html

AND

Should There Be Idolatry in Our Worship?

http://www.eliyah.com/idolatry.html

[/B]

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Shield of David said he doesn't support/celebrate Christmas but also doesn't avoid/isolate himself from family/friends on that day. He doesn't avoid them nor does he make a point to see them. It sounds like what Lindsey said about doing as you feel led to do on that day.

He supports believers doing the best they understand and sincerely trying to do the right thing.

Shalom,
Renae

quote:

---

Originally posted by Missy:

I know it's something a lot of relatively new believers struggle with every year and it's hard on them. Reading threads like this make me thankful for the blessings YHWH has given me and my husband. I thank HIM, that my huband and I both were believers before we had a child so our son has never known what it's like to participate in pagan origin days. So we don't have to worry about later trying to reverse those things like a lot of families turned believers have to deal with constantly.

Everyone has to get to that point of being able to put away those things in order to follow YHWH's WORD...it's the difference between spiritual maturity and yeilding to the flesh. And that's not always easy, especially because of the love and bond a lot of people feel for their families. But a choice has to be made:

In the Scriptures Yehoshua (Joshua) related this to the children of Yisra'EL:

Yehos 24:14 Now therefore fear YHWH, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye YHWH.15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve YHWH, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve YHWH.

---

Missy,
I don't think you realize how your words cut people here or why the term Pharisee comes up.

You started your above post with kind words as usual only to start degrading those with less understanding than yourself while continualy raising yourself up.

quote:

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Ever year it's inevitable, someone posts how they are STILL struggling with these pagan origin days because they don't want to disappoint family. What about disappointing YHWH ? Isn't that why you've made the choices that you have to leave Christianity or to leave certain ways that you knew and practiced before behind like eating unclean foods for instance ? Why is this different ? Is alliegance to these things greater than one's love for YAH ? What's really the difference between celebrating these pagan origin days and eating pork ? Both are things YHWH has said expressly not to do and that's no matter how much ,"I love YHWH and he knows my heart" rhetoric you attatch to it.

---

In the grand skem of things maybe there is no differance but I think comparing the consuming of pork to the relationship with the people that conceived you and brought into this world is a little harsh. People are flesh and sinners by nature. Our walk is progressive. We don't just snap our fingers and walk in complete compliance. The walk is hard and we ache with every step. The walk tears at your being as you purge the ways and feelings that make up the person one has become their whole life. Yes, Yeshua and Yahweh should and will come first but that doesn't mean that it happens overnight.

And yes the post do come up every year and will continue to come up until Yeshua returns. They will STILL come up. I somehow get the feeling that this is somewhat annoying to you but then again I could be reading something into your post.

quote:

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Now I know this post will upset a few people, rub some the wrong way, and no doubt I will be labeled a negative Pharisee (which is fine by me..I've been called worse). But if I am labeled one.. then in essence you label YHWH one as well.

---

I am somewhat confused here. Are you saying you are on the same level as Yahweh? By calling Missy a pharisee is calling Yahweh a pharisee. What about saying a weaker brother or sister is not a TRUE ISRAELITE OR CHILD OF YAHWEH. Would you not be calling Yahweh these same things?

quote:

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YHWH is the one that came up with the direct commands: "SEPARATE THE PROFANE FROM THE SET APART","PUT DIFFERENCE FROM THE CLEAN AND UNCLEAN", and "LEARN NOT THE WAY OF THE HEATHEN", not me.

All I am doing is pointing it out and that's why true believers do.. point to the WORD OF YAH to help others see light rather than patting them on the pack to go ahead and do things contrary to YAH's WORD or saying, "Well my family doesn't do it...but if you do..I guess that's you".

---

No, a true believer would have compassion and their heart would ache and they would put their arm around the weaker believers back and help them with words of tenderness. Not a slap on the back and a Hey whats wrong with you? Why can't you understand all of this right now.

quote:

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And if a person is in opposition to all of that.. a question has to be asked: How can you be in opposition Yah's word and not him ? You can't. YHWH directs his people make separation between certain things and not to learn and do certain things the heathen does:

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So by this you must mean that you do not break any letter of the Torah. Because if you do than you are just as much NOT one of His children as the person that goes to a family Christmas dinner while trying to understand all of His ways. We are all hypocrites. Just not all of use are humble enough to admit it.

quote:

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And really this is how you know the difference between Yah's children...and children belonging to another... because YHWH's children are called to be set apart, and keep his Sabbaths, and his covenant. His children are not called to participate in profane things to please man whether it be themselves or another man (family, friends, co-workers, your boss, etc).

---

How blessed are you that you have been given the ability to aquire all His Truths instantaniously . May Yahweh have mercy on the rest of us as we progress at our own paces. We are truely sorry for burdening and annoying you and not being as quick or able as others to absorb your Teachings. Maybe one day when we have gained all understanding as you and walk in complete accordance with His Torah He will you look down on us as children. We fall at Yeshua's feet and beg Him to cover our transgressions.

quote:

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May YHWH bless those that are able to receive his actual WORD without bias and let all of true Yisra'El be edified.

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A humble heart that cries out for the deliverance of the lost sheep would say something more like this I would think:

May YHWH bless those that are struggling to understand His word and how He wants them to apply it. May His grace and mercy abound as He calls the sheep back into the fold of Yisra'El to be edified.

This is where the Pharisee issue stems from. When you post here this is what a lot of people hear. They may not speak up and say it because they don't want to get into it with you or hurt you feelings. I could be wrong and be the only person who sees this, but I don't think so.

Luk 18:9 And He also spoke this parable to some who relied on themselves that they were righteous, and looking down on others:
Luk 18:10 “Two men went up to the Set-apart Place to pray – the one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
Luk 18:11 “The Pharisee stood and began to pray with himself this way, ‘Elohim, I thank You that I am not like the rest of men, swindlers, unrighteous, adulterers, or even as this tax collector.
Luk 18:12 ‘I fast twice a week, I give tithes of all that I possess.’
Luk 18:13 “But the tax collector standing at a distance would not even raise his eyes to the heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘Elohim, show favour unto me, a sinner!’
Luk 18:14 “I say to you, this man went down to his house declared right, rather than the other. For everyone who is exalting himself shall be humbled, and he who is humbling himself shall be exalted.”

My hope is that you will see what your words do to others here that are weaker in their understanding of His Word.

Shalom and may Yahweh have mercy on all of us as we struggle to walk in His ways and turn from the ways of this world.

------------------
Shalom,
AdoniYah
www.hopeville.net
www.hopeville.net/AdoniYah
email: adoniyah at hopeville dot net

quote:

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Originally posted by AdoniYah:
A humble heart that cries out for the deliverance of the lost sheep would say something more like this I would think:

May YHWH bless those that are struggling to understand His word and how He wants them to apply it. May His grace and mercy abound as He calls the sheep back into the fold of Yisra'El to be edified.

This is where the Pharisee issue stems from. When you post here this is what a lot of people hear. They may not speak up and say it because they don't want to get into it with you or hurt you feelings. I could be wrong and be the only person who sees this, but I don't think so.

Luk 18:9 And He also spoke this parable to some who relied on themselves that they were righteous, and looking down on others:
Luk 18:10 “Two men went up to the Set-apart Place to pray – the one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
Luk 18:11 “The Pharisee stood and began to pray with himself this way, ‘Elohim, I thank You that I am not like the rest of men, swindlers, unrighteous, adulterers, or even as this tax collector.
Luk 18:12 ‘I fast twice a week, I give tithes of all that I possess.’
Luk 18:13 “But the tax collector standing at a distance would not even raise his eyes to the heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘Elohim, show favour unto me, a sinner!’
Luk 18:14 “I say to you, this man went down to his house declared right, rather than the other. For everyone who is exalting himself shall be humbled, and he who is humbling himself shall be exalted.”

My hope is that you will see what your words do to others here that are weaker in their understanding of His Word.

Shalom and may Yahweh have mercy on all of us as we struggle to walk in His ways and turn from the ways of this world.

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Thank You AdoniYah:

What a wonderful lesson here to ALL of us!

May Yahweh teach us how to be patient, loving, and remind us ALL of how words can be used to lift us up, or tear us down.

May Yahweh remind us that there are new Brothers and Sisters who don't know everything and that Yahwehs Sprit will work with them, in His Time, Not ours. (Yet they are still our Brothers and Sisters.)

May Yahweh Bless,