posted 08-06-1999 10:12 PM            

And as for you Moses(I care not whether or not you answer me) It is obvious that you have NOT answered my question.

As for your demands, what do you call this?

quote:

---

NOW, NO SMOKE SCREENS FROM YOU. ANSWER ALL MY QUESTIONS.

---

I am not about to discuss personal issues with a newcomer that is promoting bad doctrine. If you can't answer important questions, what makes you think that I will share with you trivial things.

If you had had any discernment, You would have gotten the gist of my probe, and responded appropriately as per 1 John 4:1,2.

Oh, and in your list of bad things to call me, you left out "truculent".

posted 08-07-1999 10:23 AM            

"Can you prove that the rules that are applied to the Hebrew language were there 6000 years ago?
Is the traditional means of translating, the "Divine Absolute’s" way of translating? Prove it!"

-What a way to avoid answering my question, nevertheless; First and foremost, the fact that the Ruach HaQodesh will lead and guide us to all truth, Jn 16:13, is relevant. The chain of transmission from Moshe HaNavi to the present were kept by the Creator through Israel, via the Ruach HaQodesh, as the Creator intended to have it kept as well as translated. Paul said, concerning the Word of Y-H-W-H:

Rom 3:1-2
1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of G-d.
(KJV)

This passage shows that Israel was entrusted with the Creator’s Word, simply put. In the Torah, the Elders were instructed as to the importance of keeping the Torah ‘free from error.’ It is written, "Throughout all generations, great care was taken to preserve the Torah exactly as it was given by Moshe. The scribe is thus given the advice, ’be careful with your task, for it is sacred work; if you add or subtract a single letter, you will destroy everything.’ " Eruvin 12b; Sotah 20a (Talmud Bavli).

"You missed my point!!!!! If this scripture is not in accordance with the rest of the bible, it is not reliable."

-I suggest that you re-read the passage in its entirety, the passage is clear, as to what it refers. Gal. 4:22-31. Besides, is your word MORE authoritative than the Word of the Creator? This is scriptural doctrine you disagree with, not mine.

"I have never mentioned the trinity. You have misunderstood something I have said. Please go back and show me what I said that you thought was advocating a trinity."

-You said, on page 3:
"Greetings C & C, May Yahweh bless you both.
You wrote:
>>Who is with YHVH in creation?<<
The so called trinity, which is "The Father", The Son/Adam, and The Holy Spirit/mother/Sophia. These are the beings that are directly from the Father and everything else proceeded from the three of them. They are each from the Father but each one is a distinct beings, having its own individual nature and forum, but each being in the likeness of the Father."

On page 4:
"RaYBaG,
>>you are once again teaching the trinitarian doctrine.<<
This is only because you do not understand creation verses Procreation."

"You wrote:
>>There is no triune Supreme Being.<<
You say this because you don’t understand what this term means. A triune being is a being that was created out of the genes of the "Divine Absolute," the "Holy Spirit," and their "son." It is not three distinct beings, only one being made from three."

These three quotes are from you, so I ask you, for the second time, Do you believe in the ’holy trinity?’

"In essence I did say that."

-That is why I responded the way I did, that is what I heard in your reply., but there is power in the name of the Father and His only begotten Son, to heal among other things.

Ps 62:11
11 G-d hath spoken once; twice have I heard this; that power belongeth unto G-d.
(KJV)

Matt 28:18
18 And Yahshua came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
(KJV)

Luke 5:17
17 And it came to pass on a certain day, as he was teaching, that there were Pharisees and doctors of the law sitting by, which were come out of every town of Galilee, and Judaea, and Jerusalem: and the power of the Lord was present to heal them.
(KJV)

"Do you know anyone who has the gift of healing in this name?"

-No, I can’t say that I do. But my not knowing anyone personally who possesses that gift, does not mean that it does not exist.

"I have been seeking diligently with a spirit that is so contrite that at times I feel as if my insides will burst open and my heart will literally break. I have dedicating the past 10 years to nothing else. There are days that go by that I never stop aching inside, with a grief that I can’t explain, to the point that I don’t pray with words, I pray with aching and moaning."

-That is between you and the Creator.

"I didn’t know that we were debating Yahushua’s power and where it came from. I thought we were discussing whether or not Yahweh is the name of the "Divine Absolute." "

-Yahshua’s power was interjected because of what you said about your brother -in -law. Check the reply where it was mentioned, on page 5. I didn’t know we were discussing the name of the Creator either, we were talking about the deity of Yahshua, unfortunately we went off on other topics. Our dialogue began with your assertion on ‘crossbreeding.’ Check your first and second reply on page 2 of this forum.

"Are you saying you are a divine prophet who is given divine authority to speak the mind of the "Divine Absolute?" You keep telling me that everything you say is the word of YHWH, then you quote some scripture that has little to do with what we are discussing. Are you saying that merely what you quote from scripture is the word of YHWH, OR are you saying that your interpretation of that scripture is the word of YHWH?"

-No, I am in no way saying that I am a divine prophet. The Word of the Creator IS the mind of the Creator, therefore, when the Word of the Creator is spoken, in light of its proper meaning, it is, in fact, the mind of the Creator being revealed.
Everything I say, as being the Word of Y-H-W-H, is not referring to personal statements, but to the quotation of the scriptures. If you check back to all of my replies to you, every scripture that was interjected, was relevant to the topic at hand.
What I quote, what you quote, what anyone quotes, [if it is from the scriptures], is, indeed, the Word of the Creator. I have no interpretation, the Creator interprets the Word, by the Word, and by revelation.

"It only leaves the door wide open to robbers and thieves. You know I was not implying that it was an evil force of any sort. What I was implying was that I don’t understand the nature of the supernatural forces, period.
You keep implying that it is a demonic force that is teaching me, simply because I don’t agree with you. I know my heart and the fruits it bears and so does the "Divine Absolute." My Divine heavenly father will not leave me nor forsake me to a demonic spirit, when I am seeking him with all my being. "

-Disagreement with me does not imply that you are being led by demonic forces, disagreement with the Word of the Creator would. Your heart and your fruits are between you and the Creator. I have no knowledge of who or what is teaching you, but the Creator does, concern yourself with what the ‘Divine Absolute’ thinks of you, not I, my friend.

"Do you think the "Divine Absolute" would let a demon spirit teach someone who meditates on him day and night? Don’t you think the "Divine Absolute" protects those who diligently seek him from evil forces?? If you are implying that I am being lead by an evil spirit, how do you suppose this could happen???"

-If the person is humble and sincere, no, but there is also deception. One can be sincere in their meditation on the Creator, but one could also be sincerely wrong in their search to know the Creator too. The fact that HaSatan is a deceiver proves that anything is possible. That is why we test the spirits that ‘reveal’ to us by the Word, but in order to do that, one must first ‘know’ the Word, and the truth of it. When Yahshua said this:

Matt 24:24
24 For there shall arise false Messiahs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
(KJV)

The deception being spoken of is so great, that the elect also would fall prey to it, "if it were possible." Why isn’t it possible?

Dan 12:10
10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
(KJV)

The ‘wise’ shall understand, and who are the wise?

Ps 119:98
98 Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they are ever with me.
(KJV)

Those who keep the commandments of Y-H-W-H.

"Then what is he?????
Supernatural
1) beyond the observable physical world
2) relating to, or proceeding from an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe.
3) being much more than is natural or normal.
4) going beyond a normal or acceptable limit.
Force:
1) exceptional strength or energy
2) body (as of persons) available for a purpose
3) influence (as a push or pull) that causes motion.
4) the ability to exert effort for a purpose.
5) THE QUALITY OF AN UTTERANCE THAT AROUSES INTEREST AND PRODUCES AN EFFECT.
6) THE EXERCISE OF POWER IN ORDER TO IMPOSE ONE’S WILL ON A PERSON OR TO HAVE ONE’S WILL WITH A THING."

-Very good definition, but you failed to complete the thought behind your statement, "Supernatural Force OF SOME KIND," not just supernatural force. That would not have led me to believe that you didn’t know what was teaching you. The fact that YOU, not I, but YOU said, that you were dealing with a ‘supernatural force OF SOME KIND,’ implied to me, albeit you may not have intended it that way, that you don’t know what you are dealing with.

"Just who do you think the one is that I am dealing with??????"

I don’t know, that is something you need to answer for yourself.

"What do you mean by Divine???
Webster say divine: supremely good, clergyman, one duly ordained to the service of God in the Christian church, to know or expect in advance that something will happen or come into existence or be made manifest, of or relating to God or a god, like or like that of God or a god, superior or outstanding of its kind.
Deity: = a god or goddess"

-By divine, the thought behind the term was deity. Is Yahshua Deity, that is the question on the table.

"How is it vital to our salvation?????"

-The scriptures teach:

John 3:16-18
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(KJV)

The term, ‘only begotten Son,’ implies the deity of Yahshua.

John 19:7
7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
(KJV)

Compared with the following:

John 10:33-36
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself G-d.
34 Yahshua answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are g-ds?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of G-d came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of G-d?
(KJV)
In light of the previous passages, belief in Yahshua as ‘the only begotten Son of G-d’ and that He died for our sins, will decide if we receive salvation from the Creator. Being the ‘only begotten Son’ asserts that He is, in fact, Deity, which is why the Jews said, ‘thou, being a man, makest thyself G-d,’ to which Yahshua replied, ‘Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of G-d.’ So you see Moses and Katar, it is vital to our salvation!

"...he that believeth not is condemned already."

posted 08-07-1999 08:29 PM            

That is a really interesting parallel.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Satan was a murderer from the beginning. Yeshua was slain from the foundation of the world.

posted 08-07-1999 10:34 PM            

Where does say in the Scriptures that Satan was a murderer?

Was this before or after Eve & Adam ate from the forbidden tree?

posted 08-08-1999 02:16 AM            

You wrote:
>>What a way to avoid answering my question, nevertheless;<<

I wasn’t avoiding your question. I merely answered you in the same manner that you had answered me. That reply was in regards to this:
>>Still, this is YOUR method of translation, is it so with the Creator? If so, prove it!<<

I have already given a very long dissertation on Hermeneutics and the rules applied to both the way in which we now translate and interpret scriptures. I don’t know what more you are asking for. Please go back and read my post on Hermeneutics.
I guess I could have quoted the scripture that says we are not to change one dot or tittle of the Holy Scriptures, and we know that in order to translate the Hebrew into the text given to us, lots of dots and tittles had to be dropped, changed and rearranged completely.
I could give a long discourse on how Alexander the Great wanted to do away with the Hebrew language and make Greek the language of the world and how it was at this time that Plotemy 11 gathered 72 men to make a Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures, the LXX. And how afterwards he wouldn’t allow the Jews to have possession of their sacred text. I could tell you how Nero also hated the Jews and wanted to do away with everything relating to them and their sacred writings. I could also go on and on about how Constintine also hated the Jews and went along with the early church in furthering the attempt at abolishing the teachings of the Jews, to further his desire for power and worship. I could remind you about the inquisition when 52 million were killed over a 600 year period, and along with the killing of the people, the Hebrew language was killed. When it was revived as a spoken language, rules were applied to it that didn’t exist in earlier times. These rules applied as further attempts to keep the Jewish people from their holy writings. I could quote Jewish haggadah, myth and lore showing you how the stories they remembered and passed down go hand and hand with the literal translation of the Hebrew scriptures.

You wrote:
>>First and foremost, the fact that the Ruach HaQodesh will lead and guide us to all truth, Jn 16:13, is relevant. The chain of transmission from Moshe HaNavi to the present were kept by the Creator through Israel, via the Ruach HaQodesh, as the Creator intended to have it kept as well as translated.<<

I agree that the Hebrew text has been very well preserved and kept. However, our means of translation have not.

You wrote:
>>Paul said, concerning the Word of Y-H-W-H: Rom 3:1-2 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of G-d.<<

This statement is quoted out of text and has nothing at all to do with the way in which we now translate the Hebrew scriptures. If you will go back and read this in context you will see that it has nothing to do with language.
However if you will read Romans 1:18-25, this has everything to do with the apostasy we now live in and the loss of truth about the real teachings. To keep things as short as possible I won’t quote it all, but in part.
Romans 1:18-25:
18. The retribution of Theos from heaven is being revealed against the ungodliness and and injustice of human beings who in their injustice hold back the truth.
24. That is why Theos abandoned them in their inmost cravings to filthy practices of dishonouring their own bodies, because they exchanged Theos’ truth for a lie and worshipped and served the CREATURE instead of the Creator, who is blessed for ever. AMEN! (that doesn’t mean, truly, or, so be it).

Chapter 3 is dealing with the law of circumcision and the unfaithfulness of the Jews vs the gentiles who had just become grafted into the family. The gentiles who were coming to the Messiah were not being required to be circumcised and they wanted to know why not. They felt like they were being slighted, they didn’t realize the implication of having a circumcised heart, vs circumcision of the flesh. They wanted to know why the Jews were still required to be circumcised and wanted to know if it had an advantage for them.

Romans 3:1 Is there any benefit, then, in being a Jew? Is there any advantage in being Circumcised?
THE ANSWER
Romans 3:2 A great deal, in every way. First of all, it was to the Jews that the message of Theo was entrusted.

The debate was, who is better in the eyes of Theo, the Jews or those just grafted into the family, the gentiles. You know, like kids arguing: Mom and dad, love me more than you, your so bad and I’m so good. Paul puts and end to this in verse 9.

Romans 3:9: Well; are we any better off? Not at all; we have already indicted Jews and Greeks as being all alike under the dominion of sin. As scripture says: Not one of them is upright, not a single one, not a single one is wise, not a single one seeks Theo.

You wrote:
>>The scribe is thus given the advice, ’be careful with your task, for it is sacred work; if you add or subtract a single letter, you will destroy everything.’ " Eruvin 12b; Sotah 20a (Talmud Bavli).<<

But we are told by Jeremiah that the lying pen of the scribe translated it wrong.

Jeremiah 8:8: How can you say; we are the wise, and the law of Yahweh is with us? Behold, the lying pen of the scribes has falsified them, and written them wrong!

You wrote:
>>I suggest that you re-read the passage in its entirety, the passage is clear, as to what it refers. Gal. 4:22-31. Besides, is your word MORE authoritative than the Word of the Creator? This is scriptural doctrine you disagree with, not mine.<<

WE are told to test all things by a measure of three witnesses. Show me three other scriptures where Israel is called the children of Ishmael?
We all know (or I thought we all did) that the early church fathers have admitted to tampering with the scriptures and changing things to make it fit their doctrine.

LETTER FROM ORIGEN TO GREGORY (c. 250 CE)
1. GREETING in God, my most excellent sir, and venerable son Gregory, from Origen. A natural readiness of comprehension, as you well know, may, if practice be added, contribute somewhat to the contingent end, if I may so call it, of that which any one wishes to practice. Thus, your natural good parts might make of you a finished Roman lawyer or a Greek philosopher, so to speak, of one of the schools in high reputation. But I am anxious that you should devote all the strength of your natural good parts to Christianity for your end; and in order to this, I wish to ask you to extract from the philosophy of the Greeks what may serve as a course of study or a preparation for Christianity, and from geometry and astronomy what will serve to explain the sacred Scriptures, in order that all that the sons of the philosophers are wont to say about geometry and music, grammar, rhetoric, and astronomy, as fellow-helpers to philosophy, we may say about philosophy itself, in relation to Christianity.

He is asking him to add Hermeneutics to the scriptures to develop the Christian doctrine and translation of the scriptures.

A Letter from Origen to Africanus
3. And in many other of the sacred books I found sometimes more in our copies than in the Hebrew, sometimes less. I shall adduce a few examples, since it is impossible to give them all. Of the Book of Esther neither the prayer of Mardochaios nor that of Esther, both fitted to edify the reader, is found in the Hebrew. Neither are the letters;Error! Bookmark not defined. nor the one written to Amman about the rooting up of the Jewish nation, nor that of Mardochaios in the name of Artaxerxes delivering the nation from death. Then in Job, the words from "It is written, that he shall rise again with those whom the Lord raises," to the end, are not in the Hebrew, and so not in Aquila's edition; while they are found in the Septuagint and in Theodotion's version, agreeing with each other at least in sense. And many other places I found in Job where our copies have more than the Hebrew ones, sometimes a little more, and sometimes a great deal more: a little more, as when to the words, "Rising up in the morning, he offered burnt-offerings for them according to their number," they add, "one heifer for the sin of their soul; "and to the words, "The angels of God came to present themselves before God, and the devil came with them," "from going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it." Again, after "The Lord gave, the Lord has taken away," the Hebrew has not, "It was so, as seemed good to the Lord." Then our copies are very much fuller than the Hebrew, when Job's wife speaks to him, from "How long wilt thou hold out? And he said, Lo, I wait yet a little while, looking for the hope of my salvation," down to "that I may cease from my troubles, and my sorrows which compass me." For they have only these words of the woman, "But say a word against God, and die."
4. Again, through the whole of Job there are many passages in the Hebrew which are wanting in our copies, generally four or five verses, but sometimes, however, even fourteen, and nineteen, and sixteen. But why should I enumerate all the instances I collected with so much labour, to prove that the difference between our copies and those of the Jews did not escape me? In Jeremiah I noticed many instances, and indeed in that book I found much transposition and variation in the readings of the prophecies. Again, in Genesis, the words, "God saw that it was good," when the firmament was made, are not found in the Hebrew, and there is no small dispute among them about this; and other instances are to be found in Genesis, which I marked, for the sake of distinction, with the sign the Greeks call an obelisk, as on the other hand I marked with an asterisk those passages in our copies which are not found in the Hebrew. What needs there to speak of Exodus, where there is such diversity in what is said about the tabernacle and its court, and the ark, and the garments of the high priest and the priests, that sometimes the meaning even does not seem to be akin? And, forsooth, when we notice such things, we are forthwith to reject as spurious the copies in use in our Churches, and enjoin the brotherhood to put away the sacred books current among them, and to coax the Jews, and persuade them to give us copies which shall be untampered with, and free from forgery! Are we to suppose that that Providence which in the sacred Scriptures has ministered to the edification of all the Churches of Christ, had no thought for those bought with a price, for whom Christ died; whom, although His Son, God who is love spared not, but gave Him up for us all, that with Him He might freely give us all things?

Saint Augustine
Reply to Faustus the Manichaean
Book 4
FAUSTUS said: Do I believe the Old Testament? If it bequeaths anything to me, I believe it; if not, I reject it. It would be an excess of forwardness to take the documents of others which pronounce me disinherited. Remember that the promise of Canaan in the Old Testament is made to Jews, that is, to the circumcised, who offer sacrifice, and abstain from swine's flesh, and from the other animals which Moses pronounces unclean, and observe Sabbaths, and the feast of unleavened bread, and other things of the same kind which the author of the Testament enjoined. Christians have not adopted these observances, and no one keeps them; so that if we will not take the inheritance, we should surrender the documents. This is my first reason for rejecting the Old Testament, unless you teach me better. My second reason is that this inheritance is such a poor fleshly thing, without any spiritual blessings, that after the New Testament, and its glorious promise of the kingdom of heaven and eternal life, I think it not worth the taking.

SAINT AUGUSTINE LETTERS
LETTER XXVIII. (A.D. 394 OR 395.)
TO JEROME, HIS MOST BELOVED LORD, AND BROTHER AND FELLOW-PRESBYTER, WORTHY OF BEING HONOURED AND EMBRACED WITH THE SINCEREST AFFECTIONATE DEVOTION, AUGUSTIN SENDS GREETING.
CHAPTER II
...But I beseech you not to devote your labour to the work of translating into Latin the sacred canonical books (The Tanakh), unless you follow the method in which you have translated Job, viz. with the addition of notes, to let it be seen plainly what differences there are between this version of yours and that of the LXX., whose authority is worthy of highest esteem.

SAINT JEROME
APOLOGY AGAINST THE BOOKS OF RUFINUS.
Addressed to Pammachius and Marcella from Bethlehem, A.D. 402.
BOOK I, PARAGRAPH 3
..."I shall follow the rules of translation laid down by my predecessors, and particularly those acted on by the writer whom I have just mentioned. He has rendered into Latin more than seventy of Origen's homiletical treatises, and a few also of his commentaries on the Apostle; AND IN THESE, WHEREVER THE GREEK TEXT PRESENTS A STUMBLING BLOCK, HE HAS SMOOTHED IT DOWN IN HIS VERSION AND HAS SO EMENDED THE LANGUAGE USED THAT A LATIN WRITER CAN FIND NO WORD THAT IS AT VARIANCE WITH OUR FAITH. In his steps, therefore, I propose to walk, if not displaying the same vigorous eloquence, at least observing the same "RULES."

BOOK II, PARAGRAPH 24
...Am I likely to have said anything derogatory to the seventy translators (LXX), whose work I carefully purged from corruption and gave to Latin readers many years ago...?
PARAGRAPH 25
...The work is certainly hazardous and it is exposed to the attacks of my calumniators, who maintain that it is through contempt of the Seventy (LXX) that I have set to work to forge a new version to take the place of the old.
...I do not know whose false imagination led him (SAINT IRENAEUS OF LYONS) to invent the story of the seventy cells at Alexandria, in which, though separated from each other, the translators were said to have written the same words. Aristeas, the champion of that same Ptolemy, and Josephus, long after, relate nothing of the kind; their account is that the Seventy assembled in one basilica consulted together, and did not prophesy. For it is one thing to be a prophet, another to be a translator.

This is just a small sample.

You wrote:
>>You said, on page 3:"Greetings C & C, May Yahweh bless you both.
Who is with YHVH in creation?--The so called trinity, which is "The Father", The Son/Adam, and The Holy Spirit/mother/Sophia.<<

Did you miss the first three words in that sentence? "THE SO CALLED TRINITY"

You continue:
>>On page 4:"RaYBaG, you are once again teaching the trinitarian doctrine.<Please read my statement again. I said that you only think I am teaching a Trinitarian doctrine because you don’t understand where I am coming from.

You wrote:
>>These three quotes are from you, so I ask you, for the second time, Do you believe in the ’holy trinity?’<<

Not in the way you do. Lets start over on this issue and first establish what your idea of a trinity is. Please tell me what a Holy Trinity is? We need to make sure we are on the same page with the term trinity.

You wrote:
>>That is why I responded the way I did, that is what I heard in your reply., but there is power in the name of the Father and His only begotten Son, to heal among other things.<<

I agree that there is power in the TRUE NAME OF THE "DIVINE ABSOLUTE." What I don’t agree with is that the name that carries this power is Yahweh, or Yahushua or any of the derivatives we have for these names.

If there is power in these names and one can be healed in these names, please direct me to someone who has the power to use the name. Or are you saying that no one has the power to use the name and we are not to utter it?

You wrote:
>>Ps 62:11 G-d hath spoken once; twice have I heard this; that power belongeth unto G-d.Matt 28:18 Luke 5:17<<

I am not debating who has the power or where it comes from. I am debating what name the power is in.

You wrote:
>>No, I can’t say that I do. But my not knowing anyone personally who possesses that gift, does not mean that it does not exist.<<

Don’t you think that if someone had the power we would know about it?

You wrote:
>>That is between you and the Creator.<<

You have acted like it is between me and you. Insinuating that I am being led by a evil spirit, puts you right in there too. Either you have insulted the "Divine Absolute," or as you think an evil spirit. So you need to find out which it is.

You wrote:
>>If you check back to all of my replies to you, every scripture that was interjected, was relevant to the topic at hand.<<

In your interpretation of the scriptures.

You wrote:
>>What I quote, what you quote, what anyone quotes, [if it is from the scriptures], is, indeed, the Word of the Creator. I have no interpretation, the Creator interprets the Word, by the Word, and by revelation.<<

Now your playing semantics and this just takes up space and time. Its all interpretation.

You wrote:
>>Disagreement with me does not imply that you are being led by demonic forces,<<

You can be sure of that.

You wrote:
>>disagreement with the Word of the Creator would.<<

I am not in disagreement with the Word of the "Divine Absolute"

You wrote:
>>Your heart and your fruits are between you and the Creator.<<

I checked/gave my heart with/to the "Absolute Divine" long ago and my life is an open book for the world to check my fruits. All who know me know my fruits.

You wrote:
>>If the person is humble and sincere, no, but there is also deception. One can be sincere in their meditation on the Creator, but one could also be sincerely wrong in their search to know the Creator too.<<

DOUBLE TALK AND NONE SENCE!!! The "Divine Absolute" takes care of those who diligently seek him, he does not lie.
Thank you for providing the scripture support for me.
You quote:
Why isn’t it possible?
Dan 12:10
10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
The ‘wise’ shall understand, and who are the wise?
Ps 119:98
98 Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they are ever with me.
Those who keep the commandments of Y-H-W-H.

You wrote:
I don’t know, that is something you need to answer for yourself.<<

The answer is: THE "DIVINE ABSOLUTE"
I’m sorry this got a little long.

posted 08-09-1999 11:41 AM            

-In regard to 'translation' of the scriptures, you agreed that Israel has kept the exactness of the Tanakh very well, therefore, a proper understanding of the Hebrew will bring about the truth of what the Creator intended for man to recieve. It is not the method of translation that need be questioned, but the thought behind the Word. The purpose for giving Rom. 3:1, was not out of context, but was to show that Israel was entrusted with this truth, which was relevant to the next point, referring to the preservation of the Tanakh. In addition to giving Israel the literal Word itself, the Creator also gave Israel the interpretation too. In Ps. 147:19, it states: "He sheweth His Word unto Jacob," which, if you search the original Hebrew word that has been translated 'sheweth' in the KJV, it also means to explain or expound. Therefore, the Creator also gave the understanding of His Word to Israel as well. True to fact, there has been tampering with the Word, but through the revelation of the Ruach HaQodesh, the Creator will reveal the truth to those who seek Him diligently, with a humble and sincere heart.

-Your dissertion on the rules of hermeneutics is fine, but the Creator is the ultimate revelator and interpretor of His Word. History clearly shows the fallacy that man has incorporated into the Word, true, but the fact still remains, through the Ruach HaQodesh, truth can still be revealed, in spite of the errors of the translated bible, which is why the passage in Jn. 16:13 was interjected: "...the Spirit of truth...he will guide you into all truth:" in spite of what Jeremiah told us, the Creator can still reveal the truth. My faith is in the revelation of the Creator.

-In the Gal. 4:22-31 passage, Israel is not called the children of Ishmael, in the sense that you are trying to portray. Israel [those who have not accepted the Messiah] are compared to the Hagar, because Hagar was a bondwoman. Through the Messiah, we are freed from the bondage of Satan and sin, therefore, Paul, by revelation of the Creator mind you, only compares Israel with Hagar because of that, nothing literal is implied, which is why he said they were an 'allegory.' To seek witnesses that Israel are the children of Ishmael is utter ridiculous, when Paul was speaking figuratively not literally.

- The trinity is, G-D the father, G-D the Son, and G-D the Holy Spirit, according to popular theology. This is the triune godhead, supposedly, what is the difference in this and what you believe?

-In order to prove the power of the names of Y-H-W-H and Yahshua, one must first have faith in them. Since you "don't agree that the name that carries that power is Yahweh or Yahushua" the power could never be used by you or anyone who feels the same, due to a lack of faith. Your or anyone's "debating what name the power is in" is a barrier that must be overcome. As far as knowing whoever possesses that gift, if it be the Creator's will, we will find out about it, on His time.

-I did not act like it is between me and you, that is your opinion.

-Semantics is always the scapegoat used to divert the truth of a statement. When the Word of the Creator is quoted, it does not change from being His Word. It is misused at times, nevertheless, it is His Word. The quotation of the Word does not mean that the person is asserting that he/she is a prophet, neither did I.

-As far as your statement "DOUBLE TALK AND NONSENSE" I see you can't stand to hear the truth of the matter. Every person, who is 'sincerely' serving or seeking the truth, can also be led astray. How? Most of the time, people seek or serve the Creator based on their own perception, hence you have Hindus, Buddhists, Mormons, etc all 'sincerely' seeking or serving the Creator, but they are not all correct in their endeavors. Again, Satan can decieve a person in thinking they are pouring their heart and soul into the truth of the Word, when they are not, regardless of what you say or how you feel.
Research the words 'deceive' and 'deception' if you get a chance, see what you come up with. The passages from Psalms and Daniel only support your statement, if you advocating the Torah, why, because the Torah IS the wisdom of the Creator:

John 16:13
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
(KJV)

Deut 4:5-6
5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the L-RD my G-d commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it.
6 Keep therefore and do them; for THIS IS YOUR WISDOM AND YOUR UNDERSTANDING in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.
(KJV)

The reason that Israel would be seen as a 'wise and understanding people,' was because they possessed the 'wisdom and understanding' of the Torah.

Ps 111:10
10 The fear of the L-RD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
(KJV)

posted 08-10-1999 02:55 AM            

You wrote:
>>In Ps. 147:19, it states: "He sheweth His Word unto Jacob," which, if you search the original Hebrew word that has been translated 'sheweth' in the KJV, it also means to explain or expound.<<

The Hebrew word means no such thing. The Hebrew word is:

mem, geemel, yodh, dahleth:= announcer; having veins cut;

OR:

mem: = from
geemel, yodh, dahleth: = penis, sinew, vein, to cut veins

OR:

mem, geemel: = magician
yodh, dahleth: = foreleg

OR:

mem, geemel, yodh: = magical
dahleth: = out of

Show me how you get sheweth, explain or expound out of this word, without altering the word.

You wrote:
>>through the revelation of the Ruach HaQodesh, the Creator will reveal the truth to those who seek Him diligently, with a humble and sincere heart.<<

Which is exactly what he is doing for me.

You wrote:
>>Your dissertion on the rules of hermeneutics is fine, but the Creator is the ultimate revelator and interpretor of His Word.<<

I haven’t attributed interpretation or revelation to anyone but the "Divine Absolute."

You wrote:
>>My faith is in the revelation of the Creator.<<

So is mine!!!!

You wrote:
>>The trinity is, G-D the father, G-D the Son, and G-D the Holy Spirit, according to popular theology. This is the triune godhead, supposedly, what is the difference in this and what you believe?<<

Do you believe in G-d the father?
Do you believe in G-d the Son?
Do you believe in the Holy Spirit?

According to the cannon Iesous is not part of this "trinity" (if you wish), but the offspring of this ‘so called’ trinity and the holy spirit of Mary. You may ask how can this be? Well the father/Yahweh, mother/holy spirit/Sophia, and son/Adam, together created another being (David) and it was this Trinitarian being (a trinitarian being is ONE procreated from the DNA of three instead of two other beings)who mated with Mary the holy spirit.

You wrote:
>>In order to prove the power of the names of Y-H-W-H and Yahshua, one must first have faith in them.<<

I have had great belief in that name until just in the past month or so. And I have never seen any healing take place in it. I prayed long and hard for days without sleep, for the preacher of the church I used to attend, asking that Yahweh, in the name of Yahushua and later in the name of Yahweh and then later in the name of Yahushua Yahweh, to open his heart and mind to these names. What I got was asked not to come back to church for using these names by the same pastor I was praying for. I continued to pray for him for another year, but still no change. He has a TV ministry and I watch it every once in a while to see if he is teaching the laws of Yahweh and using the names. NO change. I prayed for my brother-in-law for years but no change. I prayed and I believed he would truly be healed.

You wrote:
>>Since you "don't agree that the name that carries that power is Yahweh or Yahushua" the power could never be used by you or anyone who feels the same, due to a lack of faith.<<

My friend, you have that backwards. I have lack of faith in that name because I trusted in that name and it failed.

You wrote:
>>Semantics is always the scapegoat used to divert the truth of a statement.<<

When you double talk it is hard to know what truth you are trying to put forth. You were playing word games/Semantics.
Its like, a man who was laying in the hospital dying and he had three children and one of them wanted him to live. However the other two thought he had lived long enough and was ready to see him go. The doctor speaks to the eldest child and asks for permission stop treating him. The doctor had already said that he could not give a prognosis as to wether or not the man would get better.
The eldest child who wanted the man dead tells the one who wants him alive that he is terminal, trying to get his conscent to stop treatment. The child who wanted him alive replies, the doctor said he couldn't give a prognosis, he isn't terminal, but I guess you could say that we are all terminal, since we are all going to die. And the elder brother says "Exactly."
THIS IS SEMANTICS
Stating a truth in a deceptive manner, to fit your purpose.

You wrote:
>>Every person, who is 'sincerely' serving or seeking the truth, can also be led astray<<

I’m sorry, but the "Divine Absolute" teaches truth to all who diligently seek him. Plain and simple. To the Hindus, Buddhists, Mormons and anyone else who sincerely seeks with all their heart and mind and soul.

You wrote:
>>Again, Satan can decieve a person in thinking they are pouring their heart and soul into the truth of the Word<<

This is just plain hog wash. What you are saying is that Satan has complete control and no matter what a person does, he can't be saved unless Saten sanctions it. Again, HOG WASH.
If you keep your heart and mind on the "Divine Absolute" and have him watching over you, you will not be deceived.
If you keep your heart and mind on him and you become deceived then it is his will and it is the "Divine Absolute" who would be deceiving you and "HE DOES NOT DECEIVE, HE IS THE TRUTH."

You wrote:
>>The passages from Psalms and Daniel only support your statement, if you advocating the Torah, why, because the Torah IS the wisdom of the Creator:<<

Are you presuming I don’t believe in the Torah? If you are you are dead wrong. I study it day and night and meditate upon it non-stop.

You wrote:
>>The reason that Israel would be seen as a 'wise and understanding people,' was because they possessed the 'wisdom and nderstanding' of the Torah.<<

What book do you think we are discussing here anyway???? Lets get on the same page.

Blessing to you, Moses

posted 08-10-1999 07:02 PM            

You state that you are humbly and sincerely seeking the truth of Iaue (Yahweh), but I don't sense that from your character. I see quite the opposite. You should listen more to what others here have to say instead of being so excited and eager to "put them in their place". Of course you are not the only one guilty of this- most of us here are.

You stated that Iaue does not deceive, but He states that He does. 2Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause IAUE shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 1Kings 22:22 And Iaue said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

1Kings 22:23 Now therefore, behold, Iaue hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and Iaue hath spoken evil concerning thee.

2Chronicles 18:21 And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And Iaue said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.

2Chronicles 18:22 Now therefore, behold, Iaue hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and Iaue hath spoken evil against thee.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I Iaue do all these things.

You said that Catholics, Buddhists, etc. can be truly seeking Iaue, but that is not true either. We can know them by their fruits. We can't see the details of the heart, but we can get the basics of the heart by their fruits. If they confess and repent of those pagan religions and enter the Covenant, then they could be true. Iaue says that the whole world always has and always will hate and reject Him in favor of His adversary. They are 'sincerely' seeking His adversary and the lusts and deceits of their own hearts, every man doing what's right in his own eyes. There aren't any that seek Iaue, no not one. But there is a tiny remnant, a few, the elect, that are seeking Iaue and keeping His commandments.

------------------
Shalom to all...

posted 08-10-1999 07:56 PM            

quote:

---

You stated that Iaue does not deceive, but He states that He does. 2Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause IAUE shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 1Kings 22:22 And Iaue said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so...etc.

---

What you wrote here is true,
but you had better clarify the fact that He does not purposely deceive those whose heart is right with Him. The lying spirit and delusions come upon those who are against YHUH not those who love Him. He never does that to the upright, those who are following after Him with their whole heart.