posted 07-20-1999 02:44 PM            

I do want very much to have as full of understanding as he will let me.
There is nothing to forgive, I have read many of your posts and see that your passion is from your love and zeal for YHUH.

All these translations! It can be frustrating! I went out and got myself a Hebrew dictionary, and a greek one, and I sworny if i can't FIND ANYTHING hardly that I look up. When I first came to the forum I never worried about translations...
So many here are so smart, and have pointed out many times about mistranslations. That is what encouraged me to go get these books that I can make no sense of!

I agree that time is short. I go to sleep thinking about him and wake up thinking about him... sometimes it's as if I hear the scriptures in my head all night long. I pray for understanding continuously... I have even worried about my prayers being "many words" like the pagans. But then I think about the "persistant woman", and I continue to "bug" him.

I didn't grow up believing they were "one".
I learned it through that "class" I have mentioned many times, the same place I learned of the tabernacle lining up with our bodies, and how the scriptures testify to him. To me it was like a wonderful revelation, and seemed so plain to me.

Then I came here. (haha)

And suddenly things were not so plain. And I have been praying non stop since!
And will continue to do so.

Thanks again, and you take care.

posted 07-22-1999 07:51 AM            

With all the questions and all the input given, we feel best to start from the beginning to let you know, at least where we stand on this issue:

Who, what is g-d?

The term g-d is in reference to a deity, how to describe as such is still a mystery unto us all. As for us, we take the general term and capitalize it to show that our G-d created the heavens and the earth.

Who is this G-d?
He is called by many names, all of which are holy, but the one most renowned is YHVH (some write YHWH).

“In the beginning Elohim (plural of the term G-d) bara (singular of the term created)”, this denotes an unity in the creation of the heavens and the earth in everything in them. Another expression as someone else wrote earlier: “Let us make man in our image. . . “ clearly gives a pluralistic image, but Scriptures does not contradict itself, therefore we firmly believe that our original statement of an unity must be the answer.

Who is with YHVH in creation? Is it the angels? To this we have to say ‘no’, because if the angels partook in the creation then they also deserve praise and honor, but we read in many places that an angel is a servant of Adonai (best clear passage is in Rev.) and we are not to bow down before them. So this being the case, who is with YHVH? We truly believe it is Yuhshua.

In John 1 we read:

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with G-d and the Word was G-d. He was in the beginning with G-d; all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made. . . And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father.”

The Greek word logos is used for “Word”, and it is the same word used throughout the beginning of John, therefore it is of the same context which is (according to Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary) “the personal manifestation, not of a part of the divine nature, but of the whole deity (see IMAGE).”

And from ‘IMAGE’ we learn that “He is the “image” or impress of His substance, or essence.” In other words, Yuhshua is the essence of YHVH to which we, with our finite minds, can truly conceive.

Therefore, He is the one who shared in the creation with His Father (Avinu). After all, did not Yuhshua say (John 8.58):

“Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am.”

The Pharisees understood what He was claiming because He was saying ‘I Am’ equals ‘YHVH’ and this is why they sought to stone Him. In another place(see Ex3.14), John tells us the Jews knew exactly what Yuhshua was claiming to be: “The Jews answered Him, ‘It is not for a good work that we stone you, but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make Yourself G-d.’ ” Yuhshua then explains why He is well deserving of the title, “Son of G-d”:

Yuhshua answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, you are god’? If He called them gods to whom the Word of G-d came (and scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him whom HaAvi consecrated and sent into the world ‘You are blaspheming’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of G-d’? ” (Jn.10.31-37). He is the Son of G-d because He has the incarnate Word indwelling.

This does not mean, however, that He is equal to Avinu because he tells us: "I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I" (Jn.14.28) and "My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one." (Jn.10.29- 30).

This topic has been discussed on this forum before in depth you can find this discussion at by using the search. It was under the named Yuhshua and the Father are one. We tried to link it but the link wouldn't go through. You can also stop off at our web site necause it's posted there too.

Many of Daliyah7 questions are answerable using the conclusions we found there. For example, the voice heard in all those examples was Avinu or HaEn(the Nothing) who is greater than Yuhshua but with whom Yuhshua is one (echad) as well. Some of the questions not answered there are:

How can he be the seed of David, the root of David, from David's loins, from David's bowels - but IS God? (Rev 22:6) Does this make the covenant with David non affect? (2 Samuel 7:12-16)

He is One (echad) with YHVH because He is YHVH’s Word (back to John 1), but he is not equal with YHVH. Yuhshua humbled himself to take the form of man and when He did this, he became viable to all human rights and limitations, including being a descendant of the Davidic line (via Marium and Yosef). Therefore, the covenant with David is not non-affect, rather fulfilled by the only person who can be King without ever sinning or even wavering from the desires of YHVH.

3 last questions. What is the Creator's name? Who is the God of Israel? And who is the Lamb?

The Creator’s name is given by the Hebrew letters YHVH (Yood Hey Vav Hey). This became to be the writing of His holy Name because the Israelites deemed His Name so holy that it is not to be written. In fact, a teaching of the rabbis is that to properly say His Name, you would have to state the whole Torah within one breath.

This same YHVH is also the same G-d of the Israelites that can do all things. He gave laws and statutes and ordinances as a guide for the Israelites, including a sacrificial system to atone for sins. The animal most prevalent for sacrifices in atonement is the lamb. One lamb is to have each person place their hands upon the lamb as they confess their sins so the animal can carry all the sins away from the Israelites. It has been taught that when the lamb is led away, YHVH will forgive their sins, but if the lamb returns then YHVH does not forgive their sins. Another lamb (without blemish) is to be sacrificed upon the altar and whose blood is to be shed. The blood is the life of the animal and only YHVH may take of the blood.

So, when Yushua came and died for our sins, He carried with Him our confessed sins and then being without sin, He was also able to shed His blood for us to seal the covenant of forgiveness. Therefore Yushua is the Lamb, the same Lamb in Revelations who alone is worthy to open the seals to finish what He had began.

On the ‘Son of man’:

We find passages from Yuhshua speaking to the man he healed from blindness (in John 9.35-38), “’Do you believe in the Son of Man?’ He (the healed man) answered, ‘And who is he, sir , that I may believe in him?’ Yuhshua said to him, ‘You have seen him, and it is he who speaks to you.’ He said, ‘L-rd, I believe’, and he worshipped him.” Here, Yuhshua did not rebuke this man’s actions of worship, which worship can only be shown unto YHVH. Again, this gives a clear indication that Yuhshua is in unity with YHVH.

Also the Son of Man is a Messianic term alluding to HaMoshiach (the Messiah). Go to the book of Ezekiel and you’ll see many examples of this term being used in this way. One such example which is very clear is found in Ezekiel 37. Clearly the prophet could not reunite the two kingdoms but HaMoshiach will. All Yuhshua was doing by assuming the title of the Son of man was to say to all that He is the Moshiach, the Shiloh foretold by Torah and the prophets of old.

Hebrew:

Emmanuel(Ayin Mem Noon Vav Aleph Lamed) - This Hebrew word is formed from two main roots: Eem (Ayin Mem) is a preposition that means with, by, beside, at, or near and the second root is El (Aleph Lamed) and means Almighty G-d, G-d Most High, strength, power or might. They are connected by noo(Noon Vav) which denotes either us or our and this makes the literal interpretation: with us G-d. Can there be another? Sure, by choosing different meanings for the roots but even the rabbis choose this meaning and it is well agreed upon.

Amen-El would be spelled Aleph Mem noon Aleph Lamed therefore it is not the same as Emmanuel.

Almah-(Ayin Lamed Mem Hay) interpreted as maiden, damsel, young woman, young marriable woman, or virgin.

Isaiah 7:14
Therefore Adony Himself will give you a sign; Behold the (Almah) virgin will conceive and bear a son and will call His name Emmanuel.

Although Almah can be interpreted young women, this is to be a sign, not a common occurrence. Young women, even young unmarried women can get pregnant all the time, but a virgin getting pregnant is not so very common.

On Yuhshua’s conception:

“He is the image of the invisible G-d, the first-born of all creation . . .” Col.1.15.

Like Adam, Yuhshua was created as the perfect image of the one true Elohei. Unlike Adam, He was not divided to create Eve but was complete at conception. No where in scripture is there any evidence that Marium provided anything but the vessel in which the Mochiach was to be contained. If you have such a passage, please furnish it. In Matthew she is “found to be with child”, Matt.1.18. In Luke we are told she will “conceive in your womb and bear a son . . .”. Marium asked how can this be because she has no husband and the angel replies: “The Ruach HaKadosh will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will over shadow you, therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of G-d.” The angel, realizing how unbelievable this sounds adds that HaShem opened Elizabeth’s womb in old age- another "impossible" thing to do.

The fact is man has managed to get a woman pregnant without traditional means, is HaShem less powerful?

Yuhshua is not equal to Avinu, but He is in our realm to see. But Yuhshua said that if we have seen Him we have seen His Avi because He possessed all that was in Avinu that we, with our human limitations, could ever see. There is one more analogy we haven’t yet used to describe this relationship but perhaps this will help:

Let’s say you really want to understand the sun. You get every book on the sun and ask all the experts but still you want to fully understand the sun through observation as well. But to stare at the sun will blind you and to go to the sun will fry you, so how can you observe the sun up close? If you had a virtual reality system available and could put on a helmet that effected what you saw and what you heard, and on gloves and boots that effected what you felt as well, and if the research team turned up the heat in the room as well and fed in all the information about the sun plus all we have gained from probes near its surface, etc . . . wouldn’t you come out with a much clearer understanding of the sun even though you did not really go to the sun. Neither can you go to Avinu, but when you see Yuhshua (as He dwells in your heart and mind), you have in essence seen HaAvi, this is what Yuhshua means.

Lastly about the question on how come Yuhshua doesn’t know the day or the hour when He “knows all things”? This is because Yuhshua can only know all things knowable. The day and the hour of His return is not in the knowable. Avinu is outside the knowable so He alone knows the day and the hour of HaMoshiach’s return.

The above is by no means comprehensive, it is merely a synopsis of what we have yielded through much study and great prayer of the Word. Yuhshua told us that we were not to teach others until we had removed the log that was in our own eye. Well, the log on the oneness of G-d, we have successfully removed but there maybe some small splinters lying around that we might have missed. So please, be patient with us, as we, like all of you, seek to follow the Way with a humble and contrite heart.

Baruch HaShem,

C & C

posted 07-23-1999 02:58 AM            

You wrote:
>>Who is with YHVH in creation?<<

The so called trinity, which is "The Father", The Son/Adam, and The Holy Spirit/mother/Sophia. These are the beings that are directly from the Father and everything else proceeded from the three of them. They are each from the Father but each one is a distinct beings, having its own individual nature and forum, but each being in the likeness of the Father.

You wrote:
>>(Ayin Mem Noon Vav Aleph Lamed) - They are connected by noo(Noon Vav) which denotes either us or our and this makes the literal interpretation: with us G-d. Can there be another? <<

I can’t find the word noo in any of my Hebrew dictionaries.
Just because it is agreed upon by the Rabbi’s doesn’t make it right. Jesus is agreed upon by most pastors but it doesn‘t make it right.

You wrote:
>>Amen-El would be spelled Aleph Mem noon Aleph Lamed therefore it is not the same as Emmanuel.<<

HOWEVER, Amen AND El, is spelled:
Ayin, mem, nun: = Amen

Waw/vav: = AND

Ahleph, lahmed: = El, these, power, toward

Which adds up to Ayin, mem, nun, waw/vav, - ahleph, lahmed: Emmanu-El

You wrote:
>>Like Adam, Yuhshua was created as the perfect image of the one true Elohei.<<

The word Elohei means, godlike, not god.

You wrote:
>>No where in scripture is there any evidence that Marium provided anything but the vessel in which the Mochiach was to be contained. If you have such a passage, please furnish it.<<

First go to Matthew 1-16 and read his geneology which was through Joseph not Yahweh.

Literally from the Greek:
Matthew 1
1. Scroll origin Iesou Christos son David son Abraham.
16. Jacov now became the father of the Joseph the man Marias from which became the father of Iesous the gathered and laying in order Christos (anointing)
17 supreme therefore the origin from Abraham until David origin fourteen and from David until the captivity Babylon until the Christos (anointing) origin fourteen
18. the now Iesou Christou (anointed) the birth in this manner to be ask in marriage the mother self Marias the Joseph previously or come together self discover within belly have from a blowing pure
19. Joseph now the man self righteous to be and not want self exposed (disgraced) desire secretly release self
20. this now self think about pay attention messenger Kuriou (master) down into dream shine self gather and lay in order Joseph offspring David not afraid take Mariam the woman you the for within self become the father of from a blowing to be pure
21. produce then offspring and call the name self Iesoun self for rescue the people self from the sin (guilt) self
22. this now intact originate so that completely the tell by Kuriou (master) through the prophet gather and lay in order
23. look the girl within belly have and give birth to offspring and call the name self Emmanuel which to be interpreted among us the Theos
24. awaken now the Joseph from the sleep create (make, construct, form) in such a way order self the messenger Kuriou (master) and take the woman self
25. and not ascertain (come to understand) self until which produce offspring and call the name self Iesoun.

It sounds pretty much to me that Joseph is the father of Yahushua. However his mother is the one who is the Holy Spirit. It was the wife of Yahweh, Sophia who gave birth. She is called the Queen of Heaven by the Catholic church.

Here is what the early church fathers had to say about it. Not that I am in agreement with the early church fathers, because I’m not, however on this matter it is clear that they knew what they wrote about in their scriptures.

The Canons of the Fourth Lateran Council, 1215
CANON 1
Text: We firmly believe and openly confess that there is only one true God, eternal and immense, omnipotent, unchangeable, incomprehensible, and ineffable, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; three Persons indeed but one essense, substance, or nature absolutely simple; the Father (proceeding) from no one, but the Son from the Father only, and the Holy Ghost equally from both, always without beginning and end. The Father begetting, the Son begotten, and the Holy Ghost proceeding; consubstantial and coequal, co-omnipotent and coeternal, the one principle of the universe, Creator of all things invisible and visible, spiritual and corporeal, who from the beginning of time and by His omnipotent power made from nothing creatures both spiritual and corporeal, angelic, namely, and mundane, and then human, as it were, common, composed of spirit and body. The devil and the other demons were indeed created by God good by nature but they became bad through themselves; man, however, sinned at the suggestion of the devil. This Holy Trinity in its common essense undivided and in personal properties divided, through Moses, the holy prophets, and other servants gave to the human race at the most opportune intervals of time the doctrine of salvation.

And finally, Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God MADE FLESH BY THE ENTIRE TRINITY, conceived with the co-operation OF THE HOLY GHOST OF MARY, ever Virgin, made true man, composed of a rational soul and human flesh, one Person in two natures, pointed out more clearly the way of life. Who according to His divinity is immortal and impassable, according to His humanity was made passable and mortal, suffered on the cross for the salvation of the human race, and being dead descended into hell, rose from the dead, and ascended into heaven. But He descended in soul, arose in flesh, and ascended equally in both; He will come at the end of the world to judge the living and the dead and will render to the reprobate and to the elect according to their works. Who all shall rise with their own bodies which they now have that they may receive according to their merits, whether good or bad, the latter eternal punishment with the devil, the former eternal glory with Christ.

You wrote:
>>The fact is man has managed to get a woman pregnant without traditional means, is HaShem less powerful?<<

What is against Yahweh is not intercourse!!!!! It is creating cross bred beings, which goes against the laws of nature and is an abomination to Yahweh the father.

May Yahweh continue to lead us to him and him only. May the eyes of our understanding be open and may our ears be unplugged so we may come to a complete understanding.

Shalom, Moses

posted 07-23-1999 06:28 PM            

You are confusing. We are trying to understand you as best as we can but some things you say does not make sense. For example you stated:

HOWEVER, Amen AND El, is spelled:
Ahleph, mem, nun: = Amen

Waw/vav: = AND

Ahleph, lahmed: = El, these, power, toward

Which adds up to Ayin, mem, nun, waw/vav, - ahleph, lahmed: Emmanu-El

How did Aleph turn into Ayin? These are two very diffferent letters. We admit that we are not Hebrew scholars and learn most of our Hebrew during Shabbos school here in the States but your explanation just doesn’t make sense to us. Can you please give the reason for this letter change and explain where in the grammar it is allowed? We’ll try to do the same for our explanation here below. Here is our reasoning:

We went to our Hebrew dictionaries but they only gave the spelling of the word and no roots so we decided to check the Hebrew dictionary in the back of Strong’s Exhaustive Concordence of the Bible By James Strong, STD, LLD (World Bible Publishers, Iowa). It’s listed as number 6005. This is what it says:

6005. Ayin mem noon vav’ aleph lemed Immanuw’el, im-maw-noo-ale’; from 5973 and 410 with suff. pron. ins.; with us(is)G-d; Immanual, a typ. name of Isaiah’s son:-Immanuel.

The roots are:

5973. Ayin Mem im, eem; from 6004; adv. or prep., with (i.e. in conjuction with), in varied applications; spec. equally with; often with prep. pref. (and then usually unrepresented in English): -ac. companying, against, and, as (X long as), before, beside, by (reason of), for all, from(among, between), in, like, more than, of(un-)to, with(-al).

410. Aleph Lemed ’el.ale; short. from 352; strength; as adj. mighty; espec. the Alighty(but used also of any deity):- G-d(god), X goodly, Xgreat, idol, might(y one), power, strong. Comp. names in “el”.

It claims that Emmanuel comes from these two above roots with suffix, pronoun, inserted. See above. The pronoun suffix is very familiar to us- Noon Vav or noo as in Avinu, Eloheinu, and Moshianu. This is what they say is inserted between the two roots and it makes sense even to our American reform Jewish upbringing. In the above list this Pronoun suffix denotes the meaning of our or us such as in Avinu- Our Father, Eloheinu- Our G-d, or Moshianu- Our Messiah.

Perhaps someone who speaks fluent Hebrew can clear this up. As it is we are even a little weak in English grammar so you’ll all have to bear with us. If all else fails we can ask our rabbi but it takes a few weeks before he gets back to us because he always very busy. Let us know if you want us to go that far.

As to who was with YHVH in the creation, this we agree upon. Yuhshua and the Ruach HaKadosh were present. This is the “Elohim” the “us” that created the Heaven and the earth. This we also said. Both the Ruach HaKadosh and Yuhshua came forth from Avinu, HaEn-the Nothing (that is the nothing which we in our limited human minds can comprehend) and in turn, these three brought forth the creation and are the source of the Church’s teaching on the word Trinity. True, the word Trinity is not in scripture anymore than rapture is, but these are words used to explain a scriptural concept. All this is consistent with Church teaching, both in the quote you provide and these two others:

Ignatius of Antioch explained it this way in his Letter to the Magnesians, 8.1 (110 CE):

"The prophets, who were men of God, lived according to Jesus Christ. For that reason they were persecuted, inspired as they were by his grace to convince the disobedient that there is one God, who manifested himself through his son, Jesus Christ, who is his Word proceeding from silence, and who was in all respects pleasing to him that sent him."

Here He calls En, 'silence' and He was until He sent forth His son and made Him flesh.

Another view comes from Tertullian in Demurrer Against the Heretics 13.1 (CE 200) states:

"there is only one G-d, and none besides Him, the creator of the world who brought forth all things out of nothing through His Word, first of all was sent forth."

Out of Nothing is the title the Jews give to G-d (En) in the Kabbalah. We explained why they gave this name to Avinu above.

What your argument fails to explain is how Avi is greater than all things, even Yuhshua Himself. It is not us who makes this claim, Yuhshua Himself said this.

"I go to the Avi; for the Avi is greater than I" (Jn.14.28) and "My Avi, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Avi’s hand. I and the Avi are Echad (one)." (Jn.10.29-30).

As to Yuhshua being: “conceived with the co- operation OF THE HOLY GHOST OF MARY” What exactly is the Ruach HaKadosh of Marium anyway? Is the Ruach HaKadosh different with different people? Does the Ruach HaKadosh not eminate from Yuhshua and Avi and is He not fully the “essence” of both? Also, where in scripture does this connotation exist? Is there a suffix pronoun inserted somewhere that we don’t know about? and as for “It is creating cross bred beings” Where do you get that from our words? We said that the fetus was created by the Most High Elohei and the Ruach HaKadosh and Yuhshua placed inside this fetus for only He is the perfect image of the Most High. Avinu and Ruach HaKaDosh are echad (one), therefore who’s cross breeding here? This is affirmed in the Word as well:

“He is the image of the invisible G-d, the first-born of all creation . . .” Col.1.15.

“Marium asked how can this be because she has no husband and the angel replies: “The Ruach HaKadosh will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will over shadow you, therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of G-d.”

Like Adam before Him, Yuhshua was brought forth from Elohim in the perfect image of Elohei. However, unlike Adam, Yuhshua was pre-existing his human existenance and we suspect his essence was placed in a human fetus, and not in a full grown man because He had to be fully human, experiencing all things, even birth. If Marium played any part of His creation, then this would be cross breeding NOT the statement that He, Yuhshua, was placed into a human fetus and prexisted all things. Also, if Marium did take part in anyway in Yuhshua’s creation she would not have been a virgin.

If Elohim created the human race out of nothing, can He not create a human fetus out of nothing and place his Son’s essence within that fetus? Where is the impossibilty or inconsistency here? It is our human mind that says mating must take place or that the Ruach HaKodesh fertilized the egg of Marium to bring forth life. Avi is not limited by our human restrictions. Avi can create a fetus with His essence placed within it and then place that within the womb of a woman. In other words, Yuhshua came entirely from Avinu at the beginning of time to His inception within Marium’s womb.

“ . . . the Father (proceeding) from no one, but the Son from the Father only, and the Holy Ghost equally from both, always without beginning and end. The Father begetting, the Son begotten . . .”

This clearly says that Yuhshua proceeded from Avi, not Marium or Ruach HaKadosh of Marium. He was begotten, not consummated. Is this not closer to what the Word states
that happened then? No, we do not fully understand this, but this is the only way we can make sense of this with our own human weaknesses. But your explanation does not make sense at all to us. Perhaps you can elaborate on the Ruach HaKadosh of Marium and how a human can take any part in bring forth that which already existed. Or perhaps we are saying the same thing and we are getting tripped up in sematics. Either way we hope we’ve made our point less muddy. Let us know.

Shalom,

C & C

posted 07-23-1999 07:42 PM            

Phil 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Phil 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phil 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Phil 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Phil 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Phil 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Yeshua = G-d. Isaiah says every knee would bow to Him, but Paul says the same of Yeshua.
Therefore, if a=b, and b=c, then a=c.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

It doesn't get much clearer than this. Or is this just another example of 'mistranlsation'.

[This message has been edited by Katar ben Tsur (edited 07-23-1999).]

posted 07-23-1999 11:50 PM            

MOST DEFINATLY NOT

Have you heard of Waco, TX?

Excuse me if I may sound hostile, I'm not, reading that coming from someone I believe to be an intellegent person of YHWH was just disapointing.

posted 07-24-1999 12:17 AM            

It is written that we shall know no Saviour (Moshia) except YHWH. Therefore, if Yayshua (Jesus) is Saviour, then who is He?
YHWH said he is the first and the last, and there is no Elohim but him. Now Yayshua said he is the first and the last. So Who is He?
YHWH said they will look upon "ME" whom they have pierced. So who is He who was pierced.
YHWH said that YHWH and his Spirit Sent Me. So who is He?
What is his name and the name of his son? Surely you know.
And the malakh YHWH did wonderfully when he accepted worship and sacrifice. So who is the one who is called Wonderful?
Yayshua said "V'Ayn Hoo" (I am He). What does this mean? (It does not mean I am Messiah).
YHWH rained fire and brimestone ... from YHWH out of heaven... How can this be?
Behold the man the Branch -- his name, YHWH our Righteousness.

For if you do not faithfully trust that "Ayn Hoo", you will die in your sins (Yochanan 8:24). Ye are my witnesses says YHWH, that I am Elohim, Yea, from day, I am He. (Yeshayahu 43:12-13).

Daniel
Have a blessed Shabbat

posted 07-24-1999 10:12 PM            

Isa 1:18
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Mal 3:16-17
16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.

I have one question that goes along with the topic at hand. I hope that my brothers and sisters see the relevance in these scripture.

Prov 8:22-35
22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.
33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD.

What is the meaning of this passage in proverbs?
Can this passage be connected to 1 John?
Are we putting limits on the Almighty and his ability to do what may seem impossible?
Did he not stop the movement of the sun?

posted 07-24-1999 10:40 PM            

Mal 3:16
16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
(KJV)

Are we putting limits on the power of the Almighty?
Is there any thing that he cannot do?
He stopped the movement of the sun.
Has any one considered these scriptures from the book of Proverbs?

Prov 8:22-36
22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.
33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD.
36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.
(KJV)

posted 07-24-1999 11:51 PM            

I’m sorry, I was trying to make myself clear. I put this together very late at night and my mind was tired as well as my eyes.

You wrote:
>>How did Aleph turn into Ayin?<<

If you will look at the very last line (Which adds up to Ayin, mem, nun, waw/vav, - ahleph, lahmed: Emmanu-El), you will see that I meant to write Ayin, not ahleph (again it was late and I was tired)

You wrote:
>>All this is consistent with Church teaching, both in the quote you provide and these two others:<<

In the quote I provided, it says that the trinity consists of, father/Yahweh, son/Adam, and holy spirit/Sophia/Mary. It says that Iesous/Jesus is begotten of this trinity AND the Holy spirit of Mary, making it a quadrenity.
I don’t believe that “The Divine Absolute” heavenly father is an elohim. I think the word elohim should be translated as, goddess hot spring, or goddesses. Ahleph, lahmed, he: = goddess, curse---- yodh, mem: = hot spring or sea. However, ahleph, lahmed, he: goddess, then add the plural ending yodh, mem making it goddesses. I believe that the angel Yahweh, is the cursed goddess Yahweh/Sophia who is the wife of Yahweh father. She fell from heaven and became the whore. The creation that Iesous took part in was that of corruption. The sons of elohim (the cursed goddess) mating with the daughters of man and animals and flying thing and creeping things.
I'm not sure that Iesous/Jesus is one and the same as the Messiah of Israel.
Read the church history and how the Roman teachings were forced on the Jews. How they tried to take their scriptures from them. How they changed them into Greek. When they changed them into Greek they substituted the teachings of pagan Rome.

You wrote:
>>What your argument fails to explain is how Avi is greater than all things<<

I never made a claim that he was anything else. He is greater because he is all things. He is the living, thinking, particles of energy, that bring all things into existence. He is beyond our comprehension.

You wrote:
>>What exactly is the Ruach HaKadosh of Marium anyway?<<

Mariam was Yahweh elohim or Sophia, the wife of Yahweh father and is the Holy Spirit.

You wrote:
>>Avinu and Ruach HaKaDosh are echad (one),<<

The word one means: to unify, three of more things in unity, being one in particular, one as distinguished from two or more or all others, to bring or come together into some manner of union.

You wrote:
>>therefore who’s cross breeding here?<<

"IF" Mariam were merely a human and she gave birth to the child of the Spirit, this is crossing water with blood and this is crossbreeding.

You wrote:
>>He is the image of the invisible G-d, the first-born of all creation . . .” Col.1.15.<<

He/Iesous is the image of the invisible goddess who was the first born of all creation.
In the beginning Yahweh created a companion/wife for himself out of himself, out of his being. Yahweh caused woman to fall out of himself, this was the immaculate conception of the “Queen of Heaven”, she was conceived by and through Yahweh, in and of himself.

Proverbs 8:22-36: Yahweh created me, first-fruits of his fashioning, before the oldest of his works, from everlasting, I was firmly set, from the beginning, before the earth came into being. The deep was not, when I was born, nor were the springs with their abounding waters. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills, I came to birth; before he had made the earth, the countryside, When he fixed the heavens firm, I was there, when he drew a circle on the surface of the deep, when he thickened the clouds above, when the sources of the deep began to swell, when he assigned the sea its boundaries and the waters will not encroach on the shore, when he traced the foundations of the earth, I WAS BESIDE THE MASTER CRAFTSMAN, DELIGHTING HIM DAY AFTER DAY, EVER AT PLAY IN HIS PRESENCE, at play everywhere on his earth, delighting to be with the children of men. And now, my children, listen to me, HAPPY ARE THOSE WHO KEEP MY WAYS. Listen to instruction and become wise, do not reject it. Blessed, whoever listens to me, who day after day keeps watch at my gates to guard my portals. For whoever finds me finds life and obtains the favor of Yahweh; but whoever misses me harms himself, all who hate me are in love with death.

She was the immaculate conception, who is now called the Virgin Mary, Holy Mother, or Queen of Heaven.
He created her to be his wife, and she was created perfect and full of wisdom/Sophia and every precious stone was given to her as a covering. She was made in perfection until iniquity was found in her.

Ezekiel 28:13-14: You used to be a model of perfection, full of wisdom, perfect in beauty; you were in Eden, in the garden of god. All kinds of gem formed your mantle, sard, topaz, diamond, chrysolite, onyx, jasper, sapphire, garnet, emerald, and your ear pendants and spangles were made of gold, all was ready on the day you were created. I made you a living creature with outstretched wings (Isis), as guardian, you were on the holy mountain of God; you walked amid red-hot coals. Your behavior was exmplary from the day you were created until guilt first appeared in you.

The more knowledge she gained the more power she wanted, until one day she decided she wanted to be in charge. She wanted to be the head of the household, so to speak.

Isaiah 14:12: How did you come to fall from the heavens, "MORNING STAR", offspring of Dawn? How did you come to be thrown to the ground, conqueror of nations? You who used to think to yourself: I shall scale the heavens; higher than the stars of Yahweh I shall set my throne. I shall sit on the Mount of Assembly far away to the North. I shall climb high above the clouds, I shall rival the Most High. Now you have been flung down to Sheol, into the depths of the abyss!

Yahweh and his wife had 12 children, the twelve tribes of Israel, the eldest being Adam. One of those children rebelled and set out for earth, Adam. He was the prodigal son. Yahweh shared all things with his wife and the more she learned the more power hungry she became, until one day she decided that she was more than Yahweh’s equal and wanted to be in control. She (along with her children) mated with all kinds of beings, one of them being Pan who was a satyr, as well as all the other beasts of the earth and bore hideous children by them. They even offered sacrifice to Pan and the other so called gods.

Leviticus 17:7: No longer may they offer their sacrifices TO THE SATYRS in whose service THEY USED TO PROSTITUTE THEMSELVES. This is a perpetual law for them and for their descendants.

She also caused Adam to do the same. She also mated with Adam, her brother/child. This was the fall of man. It was the wife of Yahweh, also called Yahweh (Yahweh elohim/goddess), who commanded the sacrifice of the first born, so she had to win back her only begotten son, and have him come back as the prodigal son, Iesous/Jesus and live a spotless, sinless life so he could be offered up as a perfect sacrifice for the sins of the world, once and for all making right the grave wrong they had committed. She is the one who demanded the sacrifice of the first born and so she had to give her first born son as a sacrifice, to put an end to this blood-shedding. The problem being, that she had already instilled sin/evil (put the leaven into) into him, so he had to overcome sin, living in the flesh, without ever mating, since this was the original sin.

1Corinthians 15:45-46: If there is a natural body, there is a spiritual body too. So the first “Adam”, as scripture says, became a living soul; and the last “Adam” has become a life-giving spirit.

Sophia was not a faithful wife and went after other men, and then she decided that she was going to rise above Yahweh, therefore she was thrown down to earth, where she lived as Isis, wife of Oseris/Adam the Pharaoh of Egypt and mother of Horus. She was called the “Queen of heaven”, the “Holy Mother”, “great healer”, “giver of life”, and she had as her sacred symbol, a cross, which was called an unk and was the symbol of life. When she was thrown to earth she became mortal in her flesh and lived out her life as a mortal. While in the wilderness when Moseh went up on the mountain to receive the laws from Yahweh. The Israelites built an idol of a golden calf to worship Isis with, since they had just left Egypt where she was worshipped as the “Queen of Heaven” and provider of the Egyptians.

Yahweh is not an elohim, the wife is the Elohim, which translates: Ah-leph, lah-med, he: = “Allah”; = goddess. Yodh, mem: = hot springs. goddess hot springs (the hot springs held the building blocks of life). Or ah-leph, lah-med, he: = goddess, and yodh, mem = making it plural: goddesses.

The picture in the Cystine Chapel of the creation of Adam, shows Yahweh floating on a cloud with his arm around his young bride and they have 11 children around them. If you follow Yahweh’s arm out past his finger tips, you will see Adam falling away from them down to the earth.

Isaiah 50:1 Thus says Yahweh, Where is your mother’s writ of divorce by which I repudiated her? Or to which of my creditors have I sold you? Look, you have been sold for your own misdeeds, your mother was repudiated for your acts of rebellion. Why was there no one there when I came? Why did no one answer when I called? Is my hand too short to redeem? Have I not strength to save? Look, with a threat I can dry the sea, and turn rivers to desert; the fish in them go rotten for want of water and die of thirst. I dress the heavens in black, I cover them in sackcloth.

Hosea 2:4-24: To court, take your mother to court! For she is no longer my wife, nor am I her husband. She must either remove her whoring ways from her face and her adulteries from between her breasts, or I shall strip her and expose her naked as the day she was born; I shall make her as bare as the desert, I shall make her as dry as arid country, and let her die of thirst. And I shall feel no pity for her children since they are the children of her whoring. Yes, their mother has played the whore, she who conceived them has disgraced herself by saying, I shall chase after my lovers; they will assure me my keep, my wool, my flax, my oil and my drinks. This is why I shall block her way with thorns, and wall her in to stop her in her tracks; then if she chases her lovers she will not catch them, if she looks for them she will not find them, and then she will say, “I shall go back to my first husband, I was better off then, than I am now;” she had never realized before that I was the one who was giving her the grain, new wine and oil, giving her more and more silver and gold which they have spent on Baal! This is why I shall take back my grain when it is due and my new wine, when the season for it comes. I shall withdraw my wool and my flax which were to cover her naked body, and then display her infamy before her lovers’ eyes, non one will take her from me then! I shall put an end to all her merrymaking, her festivals, her New Moons and her Sabbaths and all her solemn feasts. I shall make her vines and fig trees derelict of which she used to say, ‘these are the pay my lovers gave me.’ I shall turn them into a jungle, wild animals will feed on them, I mean to make hre pay for the feast days on which she burnt incense to the Baals, when she tricked herself out in her earrings and necklace and forgot me! Declares Yahweh. But look, I am going to seduce her and lead her into the desert and speak to her heart. There I shall give her back her vineyards, and make the Vale of Achor a gateway of hope. There she will respond as when she was young, as on the day when she came up from Egypt. When that day comes declares Yahweh you will call me, ‘My husband’, no more will you call me, ‘My Baal’, I shall banish the names of the Baals from her lips and their name will be mentioned no more. When that day comes I shall make a treaty for them with the wild animals, with the birds of heaven and the creeping things of the earth; I shall break the bow and the sword and warfare and banish them from the country, and I will let them sleep secure.
I shall betroth you to myself for ever, I shall betroth you in uprightness and justice, and faithful love and tenderness. Yes, I shall betroth you to myself in loyalty and in the knowledge of Yahweh. When that day comes, I shall respond, declares Yahweh. I shall respond to the heavens and they will respond to the earth and the earth will respond to Jezreel.

Hosea 3:3: You will have to spend a long time waiting for me without playing the whore and without giving yourself to any man, and I will behave in the same way towards you. For the Israelites will have to spend a long time without King or leader, without sacrifice or sacred pillar, without ephod or domestic images; but after that, the Israelites will return and again seek Yahweh their Elohim and David their king, and turn trembling to Yahweh (notice the distinction between Yahweh their elohim, goddess, and just plain Yahweh) for his bounty in the final days.

So, Yahweh says that he will take his unfaithful wife back if she stops playing the whore and spends a long time being good along with her erring children. Now my dilemma is this: Has Sophia stopped her whoring ways and turned herself around or is she still the adversary? If she turned herself around then we don’t have a problem, but if she didn’t we have a big one, since Iesou/Jesus said that he was the offspring of the Morning Star = Sophia. So has Sophia repented of her evil ways, did she have to offer her son as a sacrifice to stop all the bloodletting that she ordained? Or, is she still the adversary leading us astray?

Matthew 11:19: The son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, “Look, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.” “YET WISDOM/SOPHIA IS JUSTIFIED BY HER DEEDS.”

2John 1:1: From the Elder, my greetings TO "THE LADY, the CHOSEN ONE", and to her children, whom I love in truth, and I am not the only one, for so do all who have come to know the Truth, because of the truth that remains in us and will be with us for ever.

2Peter 1:19: So we have confirmation of the words of the prophets; and you will be right to pay attention to it as to a lamp for light a way through the dark, until the dawn comes and the “MORNING STAR” rises in your minds.

Revelations 2:26-29: To anyone who proves victorious, and keeps working for me until the end, I will give the authority over the nations which I myself have been given by my Father, to rule them with an iron scepter and shatter them like so many pots. And I will give such a person the “MORNING STAR”. Let anyone who can hear, listen to what the Spirit is saying to the churches.

Revelation 22:16: I Iesous/Jesus have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David and The Bright and “MORNING STAR”.

Iesous/Jesus didn’t say that he was the morning star. He said that he was the offspring of David/Adam and the Morning Star/Sophia.

The parable of the three measures of flour and the leaven, which reads:

Matthew 33: He told them another parable, ‘The kingdom of Heaven is like the yeast a woman took and mixed in with three measures of flour till it was leavened all through.

Luke 13:20-21: Again he said, ‘What shall I compare the Kingdom of Theos (the goddess) with? It is like the yeast a woman took and mixed in with three measures of flour till it was leavened all through.

The woman is Sophia the queen of Heaven, and she mixed her evil seed with that of three of her siblings trying all the time to conceal what she had done. These offspring are the gentiles.

The Greek word for wisdom is Sophia and according to the Egyptian gospels, Sophia was the wife of Yahweh.

1Corinthians 15:47-48: The FIRST MAN, being made of earth, is earthly by nature: the SECOND MAN IS FROM HEAVEN. The earthly man is the pattern for earthly people, the heavenly man for heavenly ones.

Paul is telling us that we can not mate with the inmates of heaven. You cannot mix the heavenly with the earthly or water with blood.
Adam was the pattern that earthly people were supposed to be made from, but the elohim rebelled and made them according to their own pattern, which was against Yahweh.

Luke 24:27: "Then, starting with Moses and going through all the prophets, he explained to them the passages throughout the scriptures that were about himself.”

Luke 24:44-45: "Then he told them, ‘This is what I meant when I said, while I was still with you, that everything written ABOUT ME in the Law of Moses, in the Prophets and in the Psalms, was destined to be fulfilled.’ "He then opened their minds to understand the scriptures, and he said to them, ‘So it is written”

John 5:39: "You pore over the scriptures, believing that in them you can find eternal life; it is these scriptures that testify of me.

Notice he says they testify of HIM. They testify of the rebellion of Adam and the fall of his mother/sister Sophia.
All the scriptures are written to and for Sophia and her erring children, to bring them back to Yahweh the heavenly father.

OR IS THE NEW TESTAMENT ALL A LIE???
Did Sophia perpetrate the whole thing to deceive us into believing that she has changed and has been forgiven, saving us from the error of her ways. Is she in reality still the Adversary?

They way I see it is this. If Sophia has been forgiven and if Iesous has become our savior, then that would mean that the Catholic Church is indeed the only Church. They are the ones who she comes to as the "Virgin Mary" or more correctly "The Immaculate conception". They have twisted the statement she made to St. Bernadet. When St. Bernadet asked her who she was she said "I am the Immaculate Conception". The Church interpreted that as "the Virgin", but difference. One who is Immaculately conceived, is one who was conceived in perfection. It has nothing to do with the state of their adult life.
If she has not been forgiven and taken back as the Wife. We have a huge problem. And I don't know which it is. I have been spending a lot of time in prayer about this matter, but have not come to any conclusions.

You wrote:
>>He was begotten, not consummated.<<

Begotten: produce offspring as a father; to be the male parent in reproduction; to produce offspring.

I don’t understand where you think there is a difference? Isaac was the only begotten son of Abraham, so are you saying he was not consummated?

Please understand that these are things that I have just started to put together in my mind and am not completely clear on everything, but they do exist in the holy scriptures. If I am seeing things wrong, by all means, PLEASE, HELP ME. I have spent my entire life in the pursuit of the truth as found in what we call the bible and have just started to see things in this light. I pray so fervently that I have developed insomnia and when I do sleep I pray in my sleep. The “Divine Absolute” knows my heart and the longing I have for knowledge, why would he lead me so far from traditional teachings, if this is not truth. If I am being lead by false spirits than I truly need help. I don’t understand how this could happen, since the “Divine Absolute” knows my heart and that I live every minute of my life trying to be pleasing to him.

posted 07-26-1999 10:32 AM            

Isa 8:20
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
(KJV)