posted 01-31-2002 09:00 PM         

THe scripture I enjoyed most in your post is this:

Matthew 8:21 - And another of his disciples said unto him, Rabbi, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
Matthew 8:22 - But Yahushua said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

It its perfect for correcting us in this regard. The key is if you are His disciple you will follow Him. And not the dead.

the Mesobaite

posted 01-31-2002 09:32 PM         

I was so distraught after reading cooks last response to me that I neglected reading any further after that. I wanted to reply to his post but I didn't feel lead so I didn't.

HalleluYAH. You see what your stand did. It is so amazing that you were a light at that funeral. How in the world did you get them to do it on Sunday. This was a great blessing for you I'm sure and I'm feeling it now.

cook,

Earlier in this post we got in somewhat of a sparing match and it caused me to not even fully read and comprehend what you were trying to say. I understand now that you are saying that the only thing we are not to do on Sabbath is work for a gain.

Well if I can read and understand like I think I can (even though I didn't read and understand you fully earlier lol)we are also not to pleasure ourselves on that day.

Isaiah 58:13 - If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of YAHWEH, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
Isaiah 58:14 - Then shalt thou delight thyself in YAHWEH; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of YAHWEH hath spoken it.

Well if we are honoring a loved one or celebarting their life at their funeral isn't this something for Yahweh to be 'jealous' of on His 'holy' day? How does that person come before his/her maker? I submit that Yahweh comes first and His Sabbath is to be revered above all other activities on that day.

Sorry but this is truth and I can't let 'the devil' take this one away from me. I'm not attacking you just the message.

Peace and love in the name of Yahushua the Messiah.

the Mesobaite

posted 01-31-2002 11:12 PM            

I'm sorry for causing you distress. I believe in the scriptural principle of "giving an answer for what I believe". At times, it seems that my "answers" cause distress. But, since you've recovered, I feel compelled to respond to your last post. Please don't feel distraught. It isn't an attack towards you, rather a zeal for what I consider scriptural truth. I have lived for years under the "commandments of men" and I refuse to continue the practice any longer. I pray that the Father will open my mind to his truth especially when I'm wrong.

The subject of Isa 58 is fasting. To be specific it is the day of Atonement. Israel would seek the Father's face and wonder why on the Day of Atonement the Father doesn't acknowledge their affliction (vs 3).

The answer he gives in verse 3 applies also to verse 13 that you quoted. Yah's answer:

"Behold, in the day of your fast you find pleasure; (pursue profit) and exact all your labors; (expect your workers to be employed)"

Verse 6, below,is how Yahweh desired them to keep the Sabbath (atonement)

Vs 6: Is this not the kind of fast that I have chosen: to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, to let the oppressed go free, and that you break every yoke? Vs 7 Is it not to share your bread with the hungry, and that you bring to your house the poor who are cast out; when you see the naked, that you cover him, and not hide yourself from your own flesh?

Now, all of my relatives, who never read the bible or consider the law of Yah, are going to be at that funeral. Am I going to "hide myself from my own flesh"? Not on your life. It will be one of the few times in their lives that they are going to hear the TRUTH about the ressurections, about the name of Yahweh, of the hope of Messiah, that their inner beings (souls) are all known of Yah and HE will be there for them. That they are included in his plan, that he won't forsake them.

Are they (my relatives) not oppressed (by satan)? Are they not under a yoke of bondage? Are they not now cast out?

Please don't be distressed by my words above. As far as the unscriptural do's and dont's of man are concerned: I believe in Mercy.

Jay

posted 02-01-2002 12:05 AM            

Please don't construe my posts to mean that we can do anything but work on the sabbath. I don't go fishing on the sabbath because I believe the fish as well as all beasts also deserve a rest as well. Nor would I observe or participate in sports or games, etc. that do not acknowledge the Father. I don't go to restaurants because I don't wish to temporarily hire a servant (waitress) to serve me. There are many unreasonable things that can be done on the sabbath, but expounding the plan and purpose of the Father and obeying the fourth command aren't one of them.

Jay

posted 02-01-2002 04:03 AM         

Great posts.

But wait, aren't most if not all ministers PAID to conduct funerals and weddings? When they do so aren't the electricity, water and what ever other utilities operating? When these things are operating aren't the utility company workers WORKING.

I believe if we leave to many things up to chance then we can slip and fall. Why not just do the safe thing and stay away?

Now the flip side of this is that when you attend a Sabbath meeting the same utilities are operating BUT that meeting is Yahweh's not someone elses. I would take a chance and worship Yahweh on the Sabbath as apposed to celebrating the life of a loved one or a wedding.

But cook, lets forget all that for a minute. Look at it this way. Those who do these things on the Sabbath are doing so in reverence to their G-d. That is the point. My friend you will never get these people to have a funeral or wedding on Sunday - their G-d's day or they like to call it "the Lord's day". So why in the world should I pay homage to their custom if I now know better. You can quote scripture till your blue in the face but I'm sure you will never find anything that OK's going to funerals and weddings on the Sabbath.

The point is those who plan these events on the Sabbath are misled. And I for one will not follow them. When they see me not attending then they will see the essence of my stand. IT IS A STAND. AND I WILL STAND FIRM. Soon we will be PERSECUTED for these beliefs. If I now listen to your point of view what is to stop me from compromising my stand when persecution comes? And it will come as prophesied. Many of us will die for these beliefs and I sometimes wonder if that death is a spiritual death for rejecting the truth in adversity.

When your government begins passing 'laws' to try to take the keeping of the Sabbath from Yahweh's saints I hope you don't 'cave in'. These things are right around the corner and we are fast approaching them.

posted 02-01-2002 07:08 PM            

"I was so distraught after reading cooks last response to me that I neglected reading any further after that. I wanted to reply to his post but I didn't feel lead so I didn't."

-----Shalom Mesobaite,

-----You know Mesobaite, I think the word "distraught" is a word for believers who will readily admit that they do not have all the answers. Actually, in my opinion, I think it takes a honest and humble person to even admit in front of probably thousands that he/she is distraught-- "feeling agitated with doubt or mental conflict" (Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary).

-----I like the adjective, because it describes how one feels when he/she is constantly searching for credible earthly shepherds. Although we do value to the highest degree, our relationship with our ultimate Shepherd, Yahushua, scripture does acknowledge the value of earthly preachers and teachers. What is simply exhausting to me is that I find that the leaders in this way are no more in agreement than those in Christendom, leaving a fend-for-yourself feeling. Sometimes I find myself hoping we are correct, and not ALL somewhere out in left field.

-----Radio and television is overloaded with personalities calling themmselves, "pastors," "preachers," "reverends," "Fathers," and the like, but where are OUR leaders? If it were not for the Internet and forums, we would not even know one another. Yes, the road is certainly straight and narrow, and few will find it (Matt. 7:13-14. Perhaps because we are so few, the frustration and mental pain proliferates. There are so many different understandings however, that the fact scripture confirms we will only know and prophecy in PART, gives me some feeling of a reality check, when I start to feel like I am in the twilight zone.

"HalleluYAH. You see what your stand did."

-----No, my brother, not what I did, but what YHWH did!

"It is so amazing that you were a light at that funeral."

-----And YHWH does tell us that we are to be a light to the world, which was exactly my intent. YHWH knowing my desire, brought it to pass!!! (Ps. 37:4-5) The extra blessing was that I did not have to even consider whether or not I was interfering with Shabbat.

"How in the world did you get them to do it on Sunday. This was a great blessing for you I'm sure and I'm feeling it now."

-----I simply told them beforehand, that I would not attend if the funeral were held on Saturday. It was just that simple. And YHWH blessed my boldness! By the way, they held it on Monday-- not even on their declared Sabbath. Hmmm...

-----So, in conclusion, when you begin to feel distraught, I think you have plenty of company!!!

-----It wont be long now. We just have to trust YHWH, and hang in there!

Blessings,

Riyah

posted 02-01-2002 07:23 PM         

When I used the word distraught I wasn't even sure what I was typing. I haven't heard that word in months. Now that I look back at that post I see that the word does truely describe exactly how I felt. I really wanted to reply to cook right away but I just couldn't it was like I had no control. Yahweh new I would probably confuse the issue more.

I've never been ashamed of expressing my true feelings it is something I've learned to do to keep me 'sane' in hard times.

Thank for your encouraging words and keep on keeping on.

the Mesobaite

posted 02-01-2002 08:26 PM            

The subject of Isa 58 is fasting. To be specific it is the day of Atonement. Israel would seek the Father's face and wonder why on the Day of Atonement the Father doesn't acknowledge their affliction (vs 3).

The answer he gives in verse 3 applies also to verse 13 that you quoted. Yah's answer:

"Behold, in the day of your fast you find pleasure; (pursue profit) and exact all your labors; (expect your workers to be employed)"

Verse 6, below,is how Yahweh desired them to keep the Sabbath (atonement)

Vs 6: Is this not the kind of fast that I have chosen: to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, to let the oppressed go free, and that you break every yoke? Vs 7 Is it not to share your bread with the hungry, and that you bring to your house the poor who are cast out; when you see the naked, that you cover him, and not hide yourself from your own flesh?

Shalom Jay and all,

My question is this, (and I hope I do not sound too simplistic):
Is the weekly sabbath on the same equality as Atonement? I find it very revealing that there are only two quodesh days in which no manner of work, or no work is to be done, and that the death penalty or "cut off" is actually stated for prophaning these days (Exodus 35:2; Lev. 23:29-30). Those quodesh days are the weekly Sabbath and the Day of Atonement. During the other Annual Sabbaths, no "SURVILE" work is to be done-- "save that which every man shall eat" Exodus 12:16). In otherwords, food preparation is allowed.

Atonement and the weekly Shabbat are spoken of by YHWH with equal intensity.

I am not tryng to pursuade anyone at this point in the thread, since everyone has spoken of their understanding regarding weekly Sabbath activities. Just thought the above deserved pointing out.

Blessings,

Riyah