posted 12-31-2001 04:23 AM         

Its either we accept truth or we don't. Knowing truth for years has no bearing on acting on it. Thats why I brought the analogy of my mother's funeral into this. To see where your mind set is and to show you the severity of this situation. The fact that she and others refuse to accept truth. I'm beginning to really understand this whole thing: we (the children of Yahweh) are predestined. And if you are not predestined it doesn't matter how much truth you study YOU STILL WON'T GET IT! :-)

Its people with your mind set, willing to compromise the most sacred things of Yahweh, who will assist the coming 'one world religion' in establishing laws to try to stop people like me from observing the Sabbath. But you know what you WON'T SUCCEED. I am prepared to die for this cause: as it says in Revelation I may have to.

Don't you know that the Sabbath is a part of the sign or seal that Yahweh will use in end times to single His people out? Or is it that you've read or heard it and still don't believe. Well I have no problem with this and I certainly don't want to take on the mark of the beast (and for no one - mother, father, brother, sister and certainly not you).

I am the kind of person who likes, no I LOVE, to ask questions. Thats how I learn most of what I know. It doesn't matter what the person's answer is whether true or false. Somehow I still seem to get the truth from their answer and if not I just keep searching. There's no need for urgency. But believe you me, when I know truth I stick to it firmly. No questions asked. I know truth when I find it: meaning I searched for it. And truth is the only thing I have that keeps me at peace - it sets me free.

The truth on this matter is THE SABBATH WAS MADE TO BE KEPT HOLY BY ALL! THOSE WHO PLAN TO BREAK IT ARE DOING SO TO HONOR THEIR GOD AND NOT YAHWEH! WHEN THEY DO THIS THE MESOBAITE WILL NOT COMPLY! THE MESOBAITE HAS HIS EYES ON THE ETERNAL PRIZE - HEAVEN; AND HE WILL NOT COMPROMISE THIS FOR ANYONE!

Now, to me I don't see a problem here. This one is 'cut and dry'. I will leave this discussion by saying these last words:

May Yahweh bless you and yours and keep you to till that final day...In the name of His precious Son Yahushua the Messiah.

posted 01-11-2002 06:41 PM            

If we do not live according to the Way of YHWH simply because we don't want to hurt anothers feelings, we are harming our brothers & sisters MORE than if we had been an example of the Ways of YAH. They're feelings may be hurt, but in the end, they will grow & learn if they turn from their wicked ways & do as the Father commanded.

If you have a child & the child is allergic to peanuts, they may want to eat peanut butter, but if you let that child, he/she could die. So should you give it to the child because he/she will cry & be upset if he/she can't have it? Or should you deal with the hurt feelings for the greater good of the child? I would venture to say anyone would rather have a healthy child with hurt feelings.

The same is true with keeping YAH's laws & statutes...I would rather have some hurt feelings & work toward the greater good of that person/people than to appease feelings for the time-being. THAT is love.

posted 01-11-2002 09:02 PM            

Shalom,

Yakeer

posted 01-12-2002 12:00 AM         

Yes I remember. I am greatful that Yahweh used me in this discussion to shed His light on you.

I just want to comment on something additional about this topic. I read somewhere on this discussion board that we cannot keep the Laws of Yahweh on our own, that only Yahushua was able to keep the Laws and that what we should do is pray so that He will keep them for us or give us the strength and wisdom to do so since we are incapable of doing so ourselves. (Sorry for the long sentence :-)).

Well I don't know the truth behind that yet but I know this:

1. We should atleast know, or be diligently seeking to know, what those Laws are.

2. We should never have the mind set that since we cannot keep the Laws on our own merit we are exempt and therefore can break the Laws.

3. When we fail to keep the Laws we should pray for forgiveness of from Yahweh. To purge us of our sins from breaking the Laws. Thus, reiterating our desire to atleast STRIVE to keep His Laws.

Because we may not be capable of keeping the Laws without Yahushua the Messiah is no excuse to disregard them. We will still be held accountable for those sins if we do not pray for forgiveness from those sins.

In Yahweh I trust,

the Mesobaite

posted 01-12-2002 04:42 PM            

Nehemiah 10:31 And if the people of the land bring ware or any victuals on the sabbath <07676> day to sell, that we would not buy it of them on the sabbath <07676>, or on the holy day: and that we would leave the seventh year, and the exaction of every debt. {every…: Heb. every hand}

Nehemiah 13:15 In those days saw I in Judah some treading wine presses on the sabbath <07676>, and bringing in sheaves, and lading asses; as also wine, grapes, and figs, and all manner of burdens, which they brought into Jerusalem on the sabbath <07676> day: and I testified against them in the day wherein they sold victuals.

The verses above define what the sabbath is. The command is to not earn a living on the sabbath. NOT TO SPEND YOUR DAY PRODUCING MATERIAL GAIN!!!! Did not the priests work on the sabbath? Read leviticus and you will see that in the service of Yah they did. Are we not priests after the order of Melchizidec? On this forum you all are attempting to add and subtract from the Word of Yahweh with your own commandments of men; your personal does and don’ts.

Leviticus 19:3 Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and keep my sabbaths: I am the LORD your God.

I find it interesting that this verse addresses the matter of attending your mother or father’s funeral on the sabbath. Here both applicable commands are addressed in the same verse. As for me, I don’t care what day it is; I will HONOR my mother by not only attending her funeral, but I will stand up front and HONOR Yahweh and declare what his WORD says about the hope of the first and second ressurrection. What better opportunity to give your own relatives and family friends HOPE in Yahweh. What better opportunity to express TRUTH than when at a funeral, where people in attendance are fully cognitive of their eventual demise.

As for that guy who gets all bent out of shape because someone new mistakenly writes GOD instead of YAHWEH, shame on you. Your gnat-picking is childish. Get off the milk and begin eating meat.

Jay

posted 01-13-2002 08:30 AM         

Would you honor your mother in murder? Would you honor your father in adultery? Would you honor your brother or sister or best friend in a lie? These are also a part of the ten commandments as is the keeping of the Sabbath. Be consistent. If you would not honor a loved one when you knew they committed murder why honor them when they continually plan, thats PLAN, to break the Sabbath and then finally plan their last event, their funeral, to break the Sabbath. Which by the way, incase you haven't noticed, comes before murder in the ten commandements.

Sabbath keeping is more important than not committing murder.

Also you stated: "As for that guy who gets all bent out of shape because someone new mistakenly writes GOD instead of YAHWEH, shame on you. Your gnat-picking is childish. Get off the milk and begin eating meat."

Let me ask you this: If I were to attend a 'christian' church and stand up to the pulpit to give a testimony and bodly proclaim the name of Yahweh and the name of the Messiah Yahushua what do you think would happen?

For some of us here on this discussion board this is our only fellowship. And we don't take too kindly to people defending the names g-d, jesus, the lord or jehovah here. If you use those names inadvertenly then that is a different case. But to defend those names after being corrected then your looking for a sparing match here. Many would tolerate it but I do not. Especially because I know when I was a 'christian' if anyone came into my church and proclaimed the name Yahweh the elders would have an 'unpleasant' private session with him after the service.

If you were at that service would you say shame on those elders. I think not. You'd probably feel they had a right to rebuke that individual.

But they certainly would not be rebuking him in the name of Yahweh. No they would rebuke him in the name of their g-d. And their g-d is not now, was not then, and will never be Yahweh.

And thats what the problem is, its like only the things of the devil are sacred to the world: like the names g-d and jesus. The holy things of Yahweh are being phased out like His holy name and the ten commandments.

Yahweh's name or His commandments (which by the way He calls His Testimony) is not to be compromised or trivialized BY ANYONE FOR ANY REASON (including a 'heathen' funeral). Whether new or old to this truth.

In Yahweh I trust,

the Mesobaite

posted 01-13-2002 07:27 PM            

Your comment: Would you honor your mother in murder? Would you honor your father in adultery? Would you honor your brother or sister or best friend in a lie? These are also a part of the ten commandments as is the keeping of the Sabbath. Be consistent. If you would not honor a loved one when you knew they committed murder why honor them when they continually plan, thats PLAN, to break the Sabbath and then finally plan their last event, their funeral, to break the Sabbath. Which by the way, incase you haven't noticed, comes before murder in the ten commandements.

Cook’s comment: The point I’m trying to make is this: What scriptural evidence do you have to prove that attending a funeral for your mother is profaning the sabbath? All the references I cited in my previous post state that failure to observe the sabbath hinges on whether you or anyone in your charge endeavors to work to make a gain on the sabbath. The sabbath it seems is a day of rest from your labors. If you were attending a funeral, why couldn’t you do a private study of the scriptures before the funeral begins, and then follow up with a speech about the resurrections, or where the dead go, or something of that nature? What better opportunity to preach to a bunch of lawless relatives.
If Messiah and the disciples were in the fields stripping grain on the sabbath or if you spent all day removing your ox from a ditch, scripturally you are not breaking the sabbath. I guess you believe the once in a lifetime death of the only mother you will ever have is not an “ox in the ditch”. There is NO law against doing good on the sabbath!! It is mandatory to honor your mother. And yes, if my father had at one time committed adultery and he was a good father to me, yes I would obey Yahweh’s command. It isn’t about what sins my parents have committed, it’s all about me obeying Yahweh. By the way there isn’t a commandment against lying- it’s about false witnessing. Sometimes a lie is of benefit to your brother, but not a false witness.
You are blaming your mother (in this example) for not understanding that the first four commandments are necessary for you to perform. You are saying that she doesn’t deserve your honor for raising you because Yahweh did not see fit to open her eyes to what he has opened your eyes to. The Father, does the choosing and electing, not you. “The whole world is deceived” This is NOT the only day of salvation. Your words at that funeral will prove to them in the 2nd ressurection that you remained a faithful witness in spite of the opposition.

You said: Which by the way, incase you haven't noticed, comes before murder in the ten commandements. Sabbath keeping is more important than not committing murder.

Cook’s comment: Sabbath keeping is a direct offense against Yahweh. Murder is a direct offense against your neighbor. The ten commanments aren’t listed in order of severety. Adultery isn’t necessarily a more serious offense that being a false witness just because it comes in the list before it.. Messiah, Paul, John, etc. say if you PRACTICE (any of) these things you won’t see the kingdom of heaven.

You said: Let me ask you this: If I were to attend a 'christian' church and stand up to the pulpit to give a testimony and bodly proclaim the name of Yahweh and the name of the Messiah Yahushua what do you think would happen?
For some of us here on this discussion board this is our only fellowship. And we don't take too kindly to people defending the names g-d, jesus, the lord or jehovah here. If you use those names inadvertenly then that is a different case. But to defend those names after being corrected then your looking for a sparing match here. Many would tolerate it but I do not. Especially because I know when I was a 'christian' if anyone came into my church and proclaimed the name Yahweh the elders would have an 'unpleasant' private session with him after the service.
If you were at that service would you say shame on those elders. I think not. You'd probably feel they had a right to rebuke that individual.
But they certainly would not be rebuking him in the name of Yahweh. No they would rebuke him in the name of their g-d. And their g-d is not now, was not then, and will never be Yahweh.
And thats what the problem is, its like only the things of the devil are sacred to the world: like the names g-d and jesus. The holy things of Yahweh are being phased out like His holy name and the ten commandments.

posted 01-14-2002 09:54 AM         

The good to be done on the Sabbath should be done as the need arises (spontaneously). For example, if on my way to worship on the Sabbath my car fell in a ditch it is expedient for me to try to save my children from that car. That is a good thing to do on the Sabbath. Would you agree? Now the flip side of the coin: the whore churches you mentioned PLAN, (did you get that?) I SAID THEY PLAN, to break Yahweh's Sabbath EVERYTIME! And in so, do the ultimate, by PLANNING two of their most important days (their wedding day and funeral) on Yahweh's Sabbath.

Yahweh is lenient and patient. He knows many in this delima do not know the Sabbath and have never heard the truth behind it. But you seem to know better. How can you come here and mislead people or is it that you are misled. Shame on you if you are not misled and just picking a fight. Perhaps you should read this post over from top to bottom. Everytime I do I learn something new that reiterates what I am trying to show you.

It seems that you are afraid of something. There is no need to be fearfull of truth - it sets us free. If you were to miss a loved ones funeral planned on the Sabbath the good you would do is hasten the wise to consider WHY?:

"Why isn't Jay here? He and xxxx were best freinds."
"Jay says he will have a private memorial for xxxxx. He says that today is the Sabbath of Yahweh and he will pray for Yahweh to have mercy on xxxx for not keeping His Sabbath."
Any wise hearing that would say to themselves "HHHMMM, let me consider this Sabbath thing more closely. These Sabbath keepers are serious." Isn't that a witness that Yahweh would bless you for?

In Yahweh I trust,

posted 01-14-2002 12:40 PM            

You said: Yes indeed Jay this is an interesting discussion. Those churches, the 501C3 ones you alluded to, are not whores only because they are in it for the money. A whore does two things (1) She committs fornication with here 'clients', (2) She gets paid for that fornication. You were keen on the collecting money part but you forgot the fornication. Their fornication can be summed up as their refusal to be faithful to Yahweh and 'have relations' with other elohim. My friend whether you like it or not those other elohim are G-d, jesus, jehovah, the Lord, jah, budha, allah, bahallulah and countless others. None of them are a substitute for Yahweh.

Jay’s comment: The elohim the corporate “churches” are fornicating with are: US and State governments, IRS, UN etc. They enter into agreements (just like a whore on the corner) with them for the purpose of tax exemption. Whoever’s “law” you obey over Scriptures is fornication.

This is in violation of Ex 34:10-17; Deut 17:2-7; and many other statutes of Yah. The corporate “churches” have signed papers and made agreements (covenants) with alien God’s (mighty ones, rulers) in violation of these statutes. In case you don’t know the U.S. gov was and is a foreign corporation, separate from the people, domiciled in a foreign territory (not a state) called Wash D.C. The 14th ammendment paved the way for the people to become subjects of foreigners through agreements (covenants) such as marriage liscense, Driver’s licsense, social insecurity and birth certificates. The “churches” teach (contrary to scripture) that their sheeple should enter into these covenants.

You Said: The good to be done on the Sabbath should be done as the need arises (spontaneously). For example, if on my way to worship on the Sabbath my car fell in a ditch it is expedient for me to try to save my children from that car. That is a good thing to do on the Sabbath. Would you agree? Now the flip side of the coin: the whore churches you mentioned PLAN, (did you get that?) I SAID THEY PLAN, to break Yahweh's Sabbath EVERYTIME! And in so, do the ultimate, by PLANNING two of their most important days (their wedding day and funeral) on Yahweh's Sabbath.

Jay’s comment: Let me give you an example. 3 years back my son and daughter in law were married. We left the sabbath keeping corporate churches in 96. Of course my son had many friends who were in those sabbath keeping corporate churches, so many of them along with their parents were invited. Even a “minister” from the sabbath keeping corporate church was invited and came. We had the wedding on the Sabbath. All of the ladies from the independent congregation we were currently attending, prepared a dish prior to the sabbath. All of the arrangements (chairs, tables, park, etc) were taken care of prior to the sabbath. The wedding was in the afternoon and everyone in the independent congregation and the sabbath keeping corporate church had their services in the morning. Myself, the father and head of the family, performed the ceremony. I explained to the assembled congregation how a marriage covenant (agreement) was only between the two partners and Yahweh and that no government of man can ordain and uphold a marriage agreement, and that the people in attendance were witnesses of this covenant. I asked “who gives this bride in marriage” and the father of the bride stood and said, “I do”. Because of that ceremony in the face of Yahweh, my family gained the daughter that I never had. After I declared them husband and wife, I asked all who wished, to come forward and petition Yahweh, to lay hands on the couple, and many came forward. Afterward we had basically a potluck with much rejoicing and discussion of Yahweh and his way of life. To this day I don’t believe I broke or defiled the sabbath.

You said: Yahweh is lenient and patient. He knows many in this delima do not know the Sabbath and have never heard the truth behind it. But you seem to know better. How can you come here and mislead people or is it that you are misled. Shame on you if you are not misled and just picking a fight. Perhaps you should read this post over from top to bottom. Everytime I do I learn something new that reiterates what I am trying to show you.

Jay’s comment: Like I said before, prove to me from scripture that I broke or defiled the sabbath!!!!!!!!!!! Prove to me that I am misleading people. I am convinced that I taught people some truth about the marriage covenant on the sabbath. It is well known that Messiah in all probability will return on the feast of trumpets to claim his bride. Is he going to profane the sabbath?

You said: It seems that you are afraid of something. There is no need to be fearfull of truth - it sets us free. If you were to miss a loved ones funeral planned on the Sabbath the good you would do is hasten the wise to consider WHY?:
"Why isn't Jay here? He and xxxx were best freinds."
"Jay says he will have a private memorial for xxxxx. He says that today is the Sabbath of Yahweh and he will pray for Yahweh to have mercy on xxxx for not keeping His Sabbath."
Any wise hearing that would say to themselves "HHHMMM, let me consider this Sabbath thing more closely. These Sabbath keepers are serious." Isn't that a witness that Yahweh would bless you for?

Jay’s comments: Many of my friends from the sabbath keeping church I used to attend have died. As soon as I left, the whole church (except for a very few) wrote me off as lost, because I left their whore congregation. I spent months, before I left, trying to reason with certain ones about the scriptures. The sheeple just follow their unrighteous “pastors”, and most sit there like bumps on a log not understanding anything. By my not attending the funerals, my way of life and the name of Yahweh is not even thought of.
Jay

posted 01-26-2002 05:08 AM            

"By my not attending the funerals, my way of life and the name of Yahweh is not even thought of."
Jay
------
Shalom all,

I have just returned from attending the funeral, that prompted my starting this thread. My visit was prolonged, and I was not privy to a computer during my stay.

As stated prior, I had informed those planning the funeral that I would not attend if it were scheduled for a Saturday. Not only was it not scheduled for a Saturday, but to my surprise, I was one of only two (2) persons asked to read scripture. I read scripture from the KJV replacing the traditionally translated name with the name YHWH. As I looked out at the audience, there were expressions of great interest and appreciation on the faces of all there. Afterwards, I received sincere comments of gratitude (also from the other scripture reader), complimenting me on the delivery, to which I stedfastly gave praises to YHWH. I can truefully say YHWH blessed the reading and also gave me words of encouragement to utter.

Jay,

In response to your comment "my way of life," may I respectfully respond by saying that it is "The Way" for which we will ultimately be accounted worthy, which is why Scripture tells us to work out our salvation with "fear and trembling."

Many on forums such as this use labels such as "fanatic," and selfrighteous," to speak of those who are extremely careful in striving to follow "The Way", which is through the "STRAIT" gate and is a "NARROW" way. Remember, "FEW" will find it (Matt. 7:13-14).

I believe that there will be many labeled "selfrighteous", "fanatics," "zealots," and other similar names, who will be found on that special road, and ultimately entering into YHWH's kingdom.

I am also reminded of Isa. 58:13 admonishing us to not do our "own ways," which are strong words to all to not compromise YHWH's laws.

Thank you all again for your contributions!

Blessings,

Riyah

posted 01-26-2002 03:39 PM            

I have researched and used scriptures for weddings, and I wish to compile a set of scriptures for funerals. From the sound of your post, I would be interested in what scriptures you used. Would you be kind enough to disclose them to me?

posted 01-26-2002 08:41 PM            

I have researched and used scriptures for weddings, and I wish to compile a set of scriptures for funerals. From the sound of your post, I would be interested in what scriptures you used. Would you be kind enough to disclose them to me?

Thankyou in advance
Jay

Shalom Jay,

I really do not understand your question.

In my post, I merely wanted to update the brethren of my pleasant experience after informing my family that I would not be attending a funeral if it were scheduled for a Saturday.

The scriptures I cited in my post are self explanatory, and are not for the purpose of persuading anyone for or against attending weddings or funerals on Shabbat. I believe the thread thouroughly indicates the beliefs of those who have responded.

I was thinking and I simply felt the need to express how "narrow" the way is to Eternal Life according to the scripture. No more, or less.

Blessings,

Riyah

posted 01-26-2002 10:28 PM            

You said: I read scripture from the KJV replacing the traditionally translated name with the name YHWH. As I looked out at the audience, there were expressions of great interest and appreciation on the faces of all there. Afterwards, I received sincere comments of gratitude (also from the other scripture reader), complimenting me on the delivery, to which I stedfastly gave praises to YHWH. I can truefully say YHWH blessed the reading and also gave me words of encouragement to utter.

Jay's Question: What scriptures did you read from the KJV that resulted in comments of gratitude?

posted 01-26-2002 11:57 PM            

You said: I read scripture from the KJV replacing the traditionally translated name with the name YHWH. As I looked out at the audience, there were expressions of great interest and appreciation on the faces of all there. Afterwards, I received sincere comments of gratitude (also from the other scripture reader), complimenting me on the delivery, to which I stedfastly gave praises to YHWH. I can truefully say YHWH blessed the reading and also gave me words of encouragement to utter.

Jay's Question: What scriptures did you read from the KJV that resulted in comments of gratitude?

Thanks, Jay

-------------

Sorry Jay, for misunderstanding your question.

The scripture I read was requested by the funeral coordinator. I did not pick it. It was John 14: 1-6.

The point was trying to make in my post was that YHWH had blessed me firstly, with the courage and determination to use His name during the scriptural reading, and that secondly, had given me words of encouragement to speak after reading the verses, resulting in obvious facial expressions of great interest and appreciation during the funeral, and comments of gratitude immediately after the funeral. The comments of gratitude were from the combination of both the scripture reading, and the inspired words YHWH had given me.

Blessings,

Riyah