posted 12-28-2001 07:28 PM            

One thing I have see in Sabbath keepers which I find very discouraging. They actually arrange funerals for their loved one on Sabbath. Sometimes the desiesed was actually a Sabbath keeper. We have found they get more upset with you when you don't attend their events Funerals, weddings, graduation parties which they arrange on Sabbath then the non sabbath keepers.

Interesting!!!

Shalom Harvester,

>>>>>Yes, Veeeery.

I use to become discouraged watching Sabbath Keepers talking the talk, but not walking the walk, until I realized that there are those who desire to be righteous, and there are those who long for the appearance of righteousness. I am beginning to wonder if part of the problem lies in whether one sees him/herself as a Sabbath Keeper, or a Commandment Keeper. I suspect that these two groups may not be comparable. Just a thought.

Blessings,

posted 12-28-2001 08:43 PM            

We can allow the Messiah to answer these questions concerning the Sabbath. As a matter of fact, this Scribe and Pharisean attitude is the exact same attitude he dealt with during his first coming. Many will join Satan and his ministers in the lake of fire for attempting to be justified by the law. As it is written, "We are justified by the Spirit of Yah," I Cor 6:11, and we know Yah is Love. Who is PERFECT before Yah? None.

Mark 2:27, "And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath..."

Luke 6:9, "Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the Sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy?"

In Yahshua's Name,

posted 12-28-2001 09:10 PM            

We can allow the Messiah to answer these questions concerning the Sabbath. As a matter of fact, this Scribe and Pharisean attitude is the exact same attitude he dealt with during his first coming. Many will join Satan and his ministers in the lake of fire for attempting to be justified by the law. As it is written, "We are justified by the Spirit of Yah," I Cor 6:11, and we know Yah is Love. Who is PERFECT before Yah? None.

Mark 2:27, "And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath..."

Luke 6:9, "Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the Sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy?"

In Yahshua's Name,

Sia

Shalom Sia,

Do I understand you correctly that the Sabbath and YHWH's laws need not be obeyed? I really do not understand what you are trying to say. Please clarify.

Blessings,

posted 12-28-2001 09:32 PM            

Talmid, you're comparing apples and oranges.
The commandments say don't eat pork.
The commandments say don't work on the Sabbath.
The commandments say don't worship idols.
The commandments don't say anything about not going to funerals
on the Sabbath and they moreover don't say anything about not loving people on the Sabbath.

Howler, thanks for your common sense. I'd rather join you
and run the risk of breaking Sabbath than join the others.
The Good News is that such sins, if they are such, are covered by the Blood, so error on the side of love in keeping the commandments.

Now I've said all that I've said not to change the mind of anyone whose mind is so already made up but to perhaps keep those who aren't narrow commandment keepers from becoming so.
Narrow commandment keeping has for too many years kept me away from any commandment keeping at all -- so that what I'm about is pointing out there is more than one way to be a commandment keeper, and the second way is by keeping love in it.

posted 12-28-2001 10:08 PM            

We should absolutely keep the Laws of Yah - thank you for asking.

However, if the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath, should we not do those things that are needful on the Sabbath? Did the Messiah not clarify this concern? Yah has granted this grace, why do we seek to be justified by the law?

"...But when the Pharisees saw [it], they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? But I say unto you, That in this place is [one] greater than the temple. But if ye had known what [this] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day," Matt 12:2-8.

If we abandoned the needs of our brothers and sisters, can the law justify our deed? The Messiah commanded that we should let our light shine so men may see our good works, Matt 5:16. I am not saying that one should ever outrightly profane the Sabbath but 'Love for our Neighbor' should always be the determining factor of everything we do. That's what makes it the Royal Law. I am sure you agree.

1Ti 1:8, "But we know that the law [is] good, if a man uses it lawfully."

Sia

posted 12-29-2001 01:04 AM            

The commandments don't say anything about not going to funerals on the Sabbath and they moreover don't say anything about not loving people on the Sabbath.

Scripture does not say anything about not loving anyone on the Sabbath, that is correct. So what is love? Love YHWH, Love your neighbor, the points on which Torah is hung. Sounds like Torah is love to me. To observe Torah is to love, which is the most divine meaning one can give to a now meaningless word.

Perhaps we also need to look at the things we should be doing to keep the sabbath. I do not see how attending a funeral with those who are obviously without faith in the Truth of YHWH on Sabbath could possibly do any good.

There are times when you have to be tough, where people will be hurt. There is no other way to live life. If your ways are controlled by others and not YHWH, your own demise is most assuredly imminent.

posted 12-29-2001 01:53 AM            

I see we are still at it. Obviously in each mind there exists a different reality.

Thought you might be interested in an update on my situation:

I immediately and very politely informed the family that because of my shabbat obligations, I would not be present if the funeral were held on Saturday. I believe YHWH intervened on my behalf when He saw my determination not to compromise His Sabbath. The funeral will not be held on Saturday.

Once again, thanks to all who contributed to this thread, making it thought-provoking, indeed.

Blessings,

Riyah

posted 12-29-2001 02:05 AM            

We should absolutely keep the Laws of Yah - thank you for
asking.

>>>>>You are welcome Sia.

>>>>>To purposely ignor YHWH's Laws would only bring death (second death).

If we abandoned the needs of our brothers and sisters, can the law justify our deed? The Messiah commanded that we should let our light shine so men may see our good works, Matt 5:16. I am not saying that one should ever outrightly profane the Sabbath but 'Love for our Neighbor' should always be the determining factor of everything we do. That's what makes it the Royal Law. I am sure you agree.

>>>>>It's a given.

Blessings,

Riyah

posted 12-29-2001 09:49 AM         

The truth is as I stated earlier Yahweh is love. He showed us this love firstly in the garden of Eden at creation. Secondly, since we didn't get it the first time, HE WROTE HIS LOVE IN STONE WITH HIS OWN FINGER. I like to refer to them as the 'Love Laws' or the 'Laws of Love' :-).

This is the love we are to share - we call them the Ten Commandments. The first 4 are the love we are to show to Yahweh. The last 6 are the love we are to show to one another.

Now whenever we are encouraged to compromise this love we must consider the possibilities. We know the consequences - DEATH. But what about the possibilities or 'loop wholes'. Well to me whenever I see someone in scripture not following the 'Love Laws'
they or the person they are trying to assist is in some kind of trouble that occured that day.

When I hear about a wedding or funeral PLANNED TO BREAK THE LOVE LAWS OF YAHWEH I see no urgency here for me or anyone who is a keeper of the Love Laws to deliberately go against what we believe in.

Back to the tactics of the enemy...What do we call a person who never seems to get the 'joke'? Thats how I feel about saints who don't get the tactics of the enemy - the devil, Satan, haSatan or whatever you prefer to call him. He showed us from the beginning how easy it is to influence us. It all starts with questioning Yahweh's commands. I call it the 'hath Yahweh said' syndrome. (Remember Satan, the enemy, started this whole thing by asking Eve "hath Yahweh said....").

Anytime I find myself questioning a command of Yahweh I consider what spirit is leading me. I know its never Yahweh cause its impossible for Him to contradict Himself. See thats the point haSatan always seems to get us to contradict and disobey what Yahweh has commanded of us. Even the Love Laws that He worte in stone with His own hand.

Believe me, you may never be successful in getting a Sunday worshiper of the 'Sun god' to go to a funeral or wedding on their precious day of worship. So why should we even consider doing the same for them. No one is hungry or dieing. No they have made a choice to deliberately profane Yahweh's day of rest. I will not follow them I will trust in Yahweh. I hope all who read this do the same.

In Yahweh I trust,

The Mesobaite

posted 12-29-2001 10:54 AM            

If we abandoned the needs of our brothers and sisters, can the law justify our deed? The Messiah commanded that we should let our light shine so men may see our good works, Matt 5:16. I am not saying that one should ever outrightly profane the Sabbath but 'Love for our Neighbor' should always be the determining factor of everything we do. That's what makes it the Royal Law. I am sure you agree.

>>>>>It's a given.

Blessings,

Riyah

>>>>>Opps....I'm back again to correct my error. I did not read your statement careful enough, Sia. I believe the evil one slipped one in on you, and you, although well-meaning, passed it on to us.

I think 'LOVE FOR YHWH' should be the determining factor. Remember 'love for our Neighbor' is the SECOND command.

We must always be on guard for that ole serpent's programming. He's slick, but not slick enough. The Scriptures say YHWH's people will have the victory!!

Blessings,

posted 12-29-2001 10:58 AM            

The truth is as I stated earlier Yahweh is love. He showed us this love firstly in the garden of Eden at creation. Secondly, since we didn't get it the first time, HE WROTE HIS LOVE IN STONE WITH HIS OWN FINGER. I like to refer to them as the 'Love Laws' or the 'Laws of Love' :-).

This is the love we are to share - we call them the Ten Commandments. The first 4 are the love we are to show to Yahweh. The last 6 are the love we are to show to one another.

Now whenever we are encouraged to compromise this love we must consider the possibilities. We know the consequences - DEATH. But what about the possibilities or 'loop wholes'. Well to me whenever I see someone in scripture not following the 'Love Laws'
they or the person they are trying to assist is in some kind of trouble that occured that day.

When I hear about a wedding or funeral PLANNED TO BREAK THE LOVE LAWS OF YAHWEH I see no urgency here for me or anyone who is a keeper of the Love Laws to deliberately go against what we believe in.

Back to the tactics of the enemy...What do we call a person who never seems to get the 'joke'? Thats how I feel about saints who don't get the tactics of the enemy - the devil, Satan, haSatan or whatever you prefer to call him. He showed us from the beginning how easy it is to influence us. It all starts with questioning Yahweh's commands. I call it the 'hath Yahweh said' syndrome. (Remember Satan, the enemy, started this whole thing by asking Eve "hath Yahweh said....").

Anytime I find myself questioning a command of Yahweh I consider what spirit is leading me. I know its never Yahweh cause its impossible for Him to contradict Himself. See thats the point haSatan always seems to get us to contradict and disobey what Yahweh has commanded of us. Even the Love Laws that He worte in stone with His own hand.

Believe me, you may never be successful in getting a Sunday worshiper of the 'Sun god' to go to a funeral or wedding on their precious day of worship. So why should we even consider doing the same for them. No one is hungry or dieing. No they have made a choice to deliberately profane Yahweh's day of rest. I will not follow them I will trust in Yahweh. I hope all who read this do the same.

In Yahweh I trust,

The Mesobaite

PS Oh by the way I wish we are al lat the Sabbath meeting last night here. EliYah touched this topic in great detail. We were all blessed. The theme of the message was, in my words, what is and isn't Jewish. Believe me many of us present received a great blessing. For those of us who may not be aware most of what we believe isn't as some would say 'Jewish'. No instead Yahweh saw fit to rise up a nation to shed His light on all mankind and that nation being Israel and Judah. Its as simple as that. What makes them special is that their ancestors (Noah, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) kept Yahweh's laws especially the Love Laws :-). You see these laws were here before Exodus 20. Its just that Yahweh saw fit to fully establish them with His people after the exodus. So you see from Adam to Moses the Love Laws were present and were kept by the faithfull.

------------------------

EXCELLENT POST MESO!!!!!!!!!

Blessings,

Riyah

posted 12-29-2001 10:36 PM            

If you think Lucifer has slipped one on me, you are very incorrect!!

James 2:8, "If you fulfill the ROYAL LAW according to the scripture, Thou shall love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well."

IJohn 4:20, "If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?"

In Yahshua's Blessed Name,

Sia

posted 12-30-2001 02:00 AM            

If you think Lucifer has slipped one on me, you are very incorrect!!

James 2:8, "If you fulfill the ROYAL LAW according to the scripture, Thou shall love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well."

IJohn 4:20, "If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?"

In Yahshua's Blessed Name,

Sia

>>>>>Shalom Sia,

The scriptures you have quoted above to not contradict Matt. 22:37-40. Again, the first and great Commandment is unto YHWH, and the SECOND Commandment is unto our neighbor.

>>>>>Shalom Brethren,

I will be traveling for approximately three weeks, and do not know if I will be near a computer. Hope to see you when I return.

Blessings,

Riyah

posted 12-30-2001 02:44 AM         

I believe your last post should read...

'I John 4:20, "If a man say, I love YAHWEH, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love YAHWEH whom he hath not seen?"'

I now know your delima - you don't even know Yahweh. I say this because if you did you would never post that scripture with the name "G-d".

I pray that you come to the realization of who the creator really is. God is not a substitute or English name for Yahweh. Yahweh's name is non-negotiable and non-translatible; because, you see my friend, that name is neither Jewish, Israeli, Hebrew or whatever excuse you might like to use. NO, Yahweh's name is ancient and eternal . Meaning it was here before Hebrew and it will be here after Hebrew. Yahweh was never Hebrew - He created the Hebrew.

I think when you come to the understanding that Yahweh is not only for the Jews; then you may understand that His Laws are also not only for the Jews but for all mankind.

What keeps me on the straight and narrow about scripture is that I KNOW THAT SCIPRTURE - THE WORD OF YAHWEH - DOES NOT CONTRADICT ITSELF. So if I see in the Old Testament that we are to keep the Sabbath and then in the New Testament I don't see anywhere stated that we are to keep Sunday. Then I know anything else is of Satan.

Oh and by the way most 'chrisians' I know say that Sunday is the Lords day. Well I agree with them now. But, then again, I no longer believe that their Lord is Yahweh. You see Yahweh's day is what we call Saturday and you nor me has the right to be buried or married on that day cause he says in His word that that is the day of rest.

I already know that my mother is a 'christian' and chances are that she will probably die with that lie (if I don't do my job and witness to her like I'm witnessing to you). When she dies and if she dies without knowing Yahweh I know they will bury her on Saturday. And this is when this discussion will hit me where it hurts (if she dies before me ofcourse).

But you know what. Yahweh will provide and I am certain that He will provide the healing I would need for not attending her funeral if it is on the Sabbath day - Saturday. I love my mother but I witnessed to her about Yahweh and she refuses to listen. So I know that I cannot compromise for her. Because as scripture says in Mathew 19:29 (and in my own words) 'anyone who forsakes all, including family, for my name sake shall receive eternal life'.

posted 12-31-2001 01:27 AM            

I find it very interesting that you would not attend your mother's funeral on the Sabbath, yet you can JUDGE me....here is your statement to me:

>>>>>>>>>>"Sia, I now know your dilemma - you don't even know Yahweh. I say this because if you did you would never post that scripture with the name G-d".>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Mesobaite, I am not in this forum to judge or criticize anyone. I am here to learn and help others. I CAN say this, your apparent attitude is clearly depicted in the Scriptures -

"You blind guides, which strain at a gnat and swallow a camel," Matthew 23:24.

You see my friend, I have been studying the truth for YEARS and one thing I know, legalism only shows one's ignorance, not his understanding.

"...But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without HYPOCRISY," James 3:17.

By the way, who said I was a Christian? Another assumption Mesobaite?

Sia