The name YHWH was not always applied to a monotheistic God: see Asherah and other gods, Elohim (gods) and Yaw (god).

Then I went to this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asherah#Asherah_and_other_gods and was astonished AGAIN!

It seems like words, names, etc are readily misused and can take on a meaning that people assign to it even if the origin was pure.

To the adversary, nothing is beyond corruption. It is no secret that heathens even referred to a moon idol as "Yah," not to mention the fact that Yahweh was also identified as having a consort named Asherah. The difference is this: We all know and understand that the name Yahweh is original (I hope), which means it is pure, regardless of what stains the adversary and those who fall prey to his schemes may do with that name.

The same goes for Elohim, Adonai and even Baal, all of which were perfectly "clean" titles before unregenerate man used them in reference to the idols they worshipped. Just because this "corruption" occurred does not mean it would dishonor Yahweh to be referred to as "my Elohim" any more than it would dishonor Him if I referred to Him as "my Almighty" after the entire world began calling upon a new idol they named "Almighty."

As for "God," this is the name that Leah, born and raised in a heathen household, gave Jacob's son. Archaeology has proven that the idol "God" was worshipped in her home town of Haran. Scripture bears out that Jacob tolerated idol worship in his household well after he had left Laban. That's a lot of years of idol tolerance. I believe everyone is under the notion that Jacob "surely" straightened out his wives and their heathen upbringing, but this is simply not true, at least not until he did so in Genesis 35:2.

Just because Leah named Zilpah's son "God" does not mean the worship of this idol ceased to exist. Many, many years later, when Joshua conquered the Promised Land, he came across a city named "Baal God." Many, many years after this, Yahweh Himself condemned the worship of that idol. Many, many years later, man decided that "God" would make a "perfectly acceptable" translation of the Hebrew word "Elohim." It has thus been culturally and linguistically redefined as an "appropriate" title for YHWH, even though He specifically condemned the worship of the idol God. This really shouldn't even be an issue here. There are so many honorable choices for titles out there, why would anyone put "God" at the top of their list? If I even thought there was a teeny possibility that this title might dishonor Yahweh, I would go for something without a hint of corruption. I wonder if there is a possibility that maybe the adversary is behind any of this?

In the love of YHWH through His Son Yeshua the Messiah,
Larry

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quote:

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Originally posted by Acheson:
Shalom, Missy,

To the adversary, nothing is beyond corruption. It is no secret that heathens even referred to a moon idol as "Yah," not to mention the fact that Yahweh was also identified as having a consort named Asherah. The difference is this: We all know and understand that the name Yahweh is original (I hope), which means it is pure, regardless of what stains the adversary and those who fall prey to his schemes may do with that name.

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It was news to me.. LOL! I didn't know that Yahweh's name had been used for other gods. I guess I just assumed that was one name that wasn't messed with..unlike the name "Allah" which is Arabic for God, but it wasn't originally used to mean one true god.

quote:

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The same goes for Elohim, Adonai and even Baal, all of which were perfectly "clean" titles before unregenerate man used them in reference to the idols they worshipped. Just because this "corruption" occurred does not mean it would dishonor Yahweh to be referred to as "my Elohim" any more than it would dishonor Him if I referred to Him as "my Almighty" after the entire world began calling upon a new idol they named "Almighty."

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I have to agree with you on this. I believe certain terms were corrupted by evil but originally they were pure. Like I said before, I think it's all about the meaning man attatches to a word is what makes it corrupt.

quote:

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As for "God," this is the name that Leah, born and raised in a heathen household, gave Jacob's son. Archaeology has proven that the idol "God" was worshipped in her home town of Haran. Scripture bears out that Jacob tolerated idol worship in his household well after he had left Laban. That's a lot of years of idol tolerance. I believe everyone is under the notion that Jacob "surely" straightened out his wives and their heathen upbringing, but this is simply not true, at least not until he did so in Genesis 35:2.

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What I don't like about "God" is that the term is so generic. Which God.. who ? I mean you could be calling the sun your god. This is why I like to say Yahweh. Even before I started using the term, I always specificed by saying, "The God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob" because I didn't want anyone to misunderstand what I mean and whom I meant. Frankly, I don't know whether or not Genesis 35 is talking about Jacob's wives. I do know Laban was an idol worshipper but I don't know that Leah or Rachel were once they married Jacob. This is not to say you are in error, it's just to say I don't know.

quote:

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Just because Leah named Zilpah's son "God" does not mean the worship of this idol ceased to exist. Many, many years later, when Joshua conquered the Promised Land, he came across a city named "Baal God." Many, many years after this, Yahweh Himself condemned the worship of that idol. Many, many years later, man decided that "God" would make a "perfectly acceptable" translation of the Hebrew word "Elohim." It has thus been culturally and linguistically redefined as an "appropriate" title for YHWH, even though He specifically condemned the worship of the idol God. This really shouldn't even be an issue here. There are so many honorable choices for titles out there, why would anyone put "God" at the top of their list? If I even thought there was a teeny possibility that this title might dishonor Yahweh, I would go for something without a hint of corruption. I wonder if there is a possibility that maybe the adversary is behind any of this?

---

I think the God and Gad issue brings about much confusion. I simply look at the name of Zilpah's son Gad as just that..his name. And I don't look at it as anything evil or having to do with Baal. And I think that is one of the reason why is on the gates because Yahweh doesn't see the name of one of the tribe of Israel as anything evil. But the worship of another god named Gad is the evil, not the name neccessarily. The term god, I consider it a generic term for a diety. I tend not to look at it as anymore than that but feel it's to generic for the one true Elohim.

You said,"""""Have you read the study "THE TRUTH REGARDING INSPIRED TITLES" I referenced that has plenty of example of what I assert demonstrated from Scripture?

I have the baptism of the Holy Spirit and I speak with the authority of Yahushua and not as one of the scribes and I referenced you to a very valid and proven Scripture Study! Have you read it?
If Zues is a title and not being used as a name of an idol I would have no problem with it! Do you know the deos is a title taken from the name Zues from what I understand? I could be incorrect and I am sure if you know you will correct me.""""

Yes David I have read it, however, don't jump to conclusions so fast.

Also, I never questioned your Baptisim either.

You also said """"If Zues is a title and not being used as a name of an idol I would have no problem with it!"""" Unquote.

That's just problem David, this title of "" ZEUS "" is a idol deity, look at( Act 14:12-13) is the word "" Jupiter "" in the Old King James Version, however, in the ( Strongs Greek Dictionary) page 34 this word " Jupiter " is Strongs Greek number 2203= ZEUS, = Dis the supreme deity of the Greeks-Jupiter"" unquote.

You also asked, """Do you know the deos is a title taken from the name Zues from what I understand? I could be incorrect and I am sure if you know you will correct me.

That is "" Dios "" David, and yes it is connected with "ZEUS" in the word "" Dioscuri"", and as a matter of fact it comes from 2 Greek words, "" DIOS OF ZEUS "" and ""Kouros""= boy or son, of Greek mythology.

Greek Mythology.
Castor and Pollux, the twin sons of Leda and brothers of Helen and Clytemnestra, who were transformed by Zeus into the constellation Gemini.

[Greek Dioskouroi : Dios, genitive of Zeus, Zeus + kouroi, pl. of kouros, boy.]

See http://www.answers.com/Dioscuri

Also, you can go to this address below of Myths and Myth-Makers: Old Tales and Superstitions Interpreted by Comparative Mythology
by John Fiske
(1842-1901)

IV. LIGHT AND DARKNESS

http://classiclit.about.com/library/bl-etexts/jfiske/bl-jfiske-myth-4.htm?terms=Theos+Zeus

Here is an article excerpt of it copied and pasted concerning "god ", and also if you will keep reading the book you will find a connection between Zeus and the Greek Theos .

Follow and notice the connections of all these pagan deities.

"""""WHEN Maitland blasphemously asserted that God was but “a Bogie of the nursery,” he unwittingly made a remark as suggestive in point of philology as it was crude and repulsive in its atheism. When examined with the lenses of linguistic science, the “Bogie” or “Bug-a-boo” or “Bugbear” of nursery lore turns out to be identical, not only with the fairy “Puck,” whom Shakespeare has immortalized, but also with the Slavonic “Bog” and the “Baga” of the Cuneiform Inscriptions, both of which are names for the Supreme Being. If we proceed further, and inquire after the ancestral form of these epithets,—so strangely incongruous in their significations,—we shall find it in the Old Aryan “Bhaga,” which reappears unchanged in the Sanskrit of the Vedas, and has left a memento of itself in the surname of the Phrygian Zeus “Bagaios.” It seems originally to have denoted either the unclouded sun or the sky of noonday illumined by the solar rays. In Sayana’s commentary on the Rig-Veda, Bhaga is enumerated among the seven (or eight) sons of Aditi, the boundless Orient; and he is elsewhere described as the lord of life, the giver of bread, and the bringer of happiness.[94]

[94] Muir’s Sanskrit Texts, Vol. IV. p. 12; Muller, Rig-Veda Sanhita, Vol. I. pp. 230-251; Fick, Woerterbuch der Indogermanischen Grundsprache, p. 124, s v. Bhaga.

Thus the same name which, to the Vedic poet, to the Persian of the time of Xerxes, and to the modern Russian, suggests the supreme majesty of deity, is in English associated with an ugly and ludicrous fiend, closely akin to that grotesque Northern Devil of whom Southey was unable to think without laughing. Such is the irony of fate toward a deposed deity. The German name for idol—Abgott, that is, “ex-god,” or “dethroned god”—sums up in a single etymology the history of the havoc wrought by monotheism among the ancient symbols of deity. In the hospitable Pantheon of the Greeks and Romans a niche was always in readiness for every new divinity who could produce respectable credentials; but the triumph of monotheism converted the stately mansion into a Pandemonium peopled with fiends.

To the monotheist an “ex-god” was simply a devilish deceiver of mankind whom the true God had succeeded in vanquishing; and thus the word demon, which to the ancient meant a divine or semi-divine being, came to be applied to fiends exclusively. Thus the Teutonic races, who preserved the name of their highest divinity, Odin,—originally, Guodan,—by which to designate the God of the Christian,[95] were unable to regard the Bog of ancient tradition as anything but an “ex-god,” or vanquished demon.

[95] In the North American Review, October, 1869, p. 354, I have collected a number of facts which seem to me to prove beyond question that the name God is derived from Guodan, the original form of Odin, the supreme deity of our Pagan forefathers. The case is exactly parallel to that of the French Dieu, which is descended from the Deus of the pagan Roman.

The most striking illustration of this process is to be found in the word devil itself: To a reader unfamiliar with the endless tricks which language delights in playing, it may seem shocking to be told that the Gypsies use the word devil as the name of God.[96] This, however, is not because these people have made the archfiend an object of worship, but because the Gypsy language, descending directly from the Sanskrit, has retained in its primitive exalted sense a word which the English language has received only in its debased and perverted sense.

NOTICE===The Teutonic words devil, teufel, diuval, djofull, djevful, may all be traced back to the Zend dev,[97] a name in which is implicitly contained the record of the oldest monotheistic revolution known to history. The influence of the so-called Zoroastrian reform upon the long-subsequent development of Christianity will receive further notice in the course of this paper; for the present it is enough to know that it furnished for all Christendom the name by which it designates the author of evil. To the Parsee follower of Zarathustra the name of the Devil has very nearly the same signification as to the Christian; yet, as Grimm has shown, it is nothing else than a corruption of deva, the Sanskrit name for God.

NOTICE==When Zarathustra overthrew the primeval Aryan nature-worship in Bactria, this name met the same evil fate which in early Christian times overtook the word demon, and from a symbol of reverence became henceforth a symbol of detestation.[98] But throughout the rest of the Aryan world it achieved a nobler career, producing the Greek theos, the Lithuanian diewas, the Latin deus, and hence the modern French Dieu, all meaning God.

[96] See Pott, Die Zigeuner, II. 311; Kuhn, Beitrage, I. 147. Yet in the worship of dewel by the Gypsies is to be found the element of diabolism invariably present in barbaric worship. “Dewel, the great god in heaven (dewa, deus), is rather feared than loved by these weather-beaten outcasts, for he harms them on their wanderings with his thunder and lightning, his snow and rain, and his stars interfere with their dark doings. Therefore they curse him foully when misfortune falls on them; and when a child dies, they say that Dewel has eaten it.” Tylor, Primitive Culture, Vol. II. p. 248."""" unquote

Just a taste david, do you want to square the the pagan word "" Theos "" with Zeus"" and " a demon " is a God " worship, and line right up with the ancient pagan beliefs as traditional christianity is doing today??

http://classiclit.about.com/library/bl-etexts/jfiske/bl-jfiske-myth-4.htm?terms=Theos+Zeus

Elyahc= Eljah C.

Thank you for sharing your perspective on this topic!

You wrote:

quote:

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I think the God and Gad issue brings about much confusion. I simply look at the name of Zilpah's son Gad as just that..his name. And I don't look at it as anything evil or having to do with Baal. And I think that is one of the reason why is on the gates because Yahweh doesn't see the name of one of the tribe of Israel as anything evil. But the worship of another god named Gad is the evil, not the name neccessarily. The term god, I consider it a generic term for a diety. I tend not to look at it as anymore than that but feel it's to generic for the one true Elohim.

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I reply: I believe we should keep in mind that the confusion surrounding the terms "God" and "Gad" only exists because somehow man chose to insert a different vowel for each of those names. I believe confusion is precisely why this was done, if you catch my drift. Who is the author of confusion? Remember, they are both pronounced the same in the Hebrew.

Although I am persuaded that it was in response to her heathen upbringing that Leah named Zilpah's son God, I agree with you that this did not make the man who was given that name an evil person. Anyone given the name "God" is no more evil than a person given the name "Apollos" or "Hermes" (Romans 16:14). I believe those two individuals, along with the man named "God" will be in the resurrection. Nevertheless, when we research the origin of those names, all three are traced to the names of heathen idols. To culturally and linguistically redefine those names and assign them as titles for the Almighty is simply dishonorable to Him.

One thing I have found in my research that some may find interesting: I find that "Theos," contrary to the information offered by C. J. Koster in The Final Reformation, is not traced to the name of any heathen idol found in the Greek pantheon. It was simply a generic title for deity. If anyone here can show me where there was ever a deity named Theos, I would like to see it. Thus, I do not accept as valid (at this point in time) the claim that Zeus and Theos are the same. They may be connected linguistically, but the one term evolved into a name, the other a generic title. I do not put "Theos" on even keel with "God."

While I agree that it is the idol that is the "evil" and not the name, it is the name that identifies the evil. To take that identifier and apply it to the only Supreme Almighty of the universe is, to me, very dishonorable.

I believe we worship an awesome Heavenly Father, who is full of lovingkindness and mercy for His children. All I'm trying to do is give Him the honor He so richly deserves. Taking the name of a heathen idol whose worship He has already condemned, then converting that ugly name into a title for our loving Heavenly Father is just not a nice thing to do.

Okay, that's enough for now. Mesobaite, thank you for your encouragement. I really appreciate your kind words.

Elyahc, how are you doing? I remember you in my prayers. I have no idea how you ruptured your discs and pinched your nerves, but I know you must be in extreme pain. May Yahweh heal you and restore you to perfect health.

I appreciate all the research you shared. I hadn't done much research into the name/title "Bog," so I found that and the other information very interesting.

David, I will simply ask that you please review my postings from the other day, as well as last night and answer the questions I have asked you to answer.

Take care and may Yahweh bless!

In the love of Yahweh through His Son Yeshua the Messiah,
Larry

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Was the behaviour of the people attending intimidating? Were they vehemently and agressively attacking your claims? If so then you experience what I experience everytime I try to explain that I do not know any God or Lord but I know Yahweh.

Then we visited a bible study this week and we came against another Messianic person who was cutting people off left and right trying to drive home a doctrine that isn't scriptural. We left and I'm thinking ok what is goign on here.

quote:

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Originally posted by katy:
I have to say this was the most heartbreaking experience I had ever seen.It was an exerience I thought I'd never see. One man told us not to touch him and looked at us like a demon took over and accused my dh of things. Dh told him he was just using scripture and I thought we should leave. I have seen the denomic thing a few time when the voice changes and the face changes.I'm thinking we are dealing with a controversy of the Messianic movement and the Sacred names. I am not opposed in the Messianic movement when they stick within scriptures but I am opposed to when they want all the bells and whistles associated with it.

Then we visited a bible study this week and we came against another Messianic person who was cutting people off left and right trying to drive home a doctrine that isn't scriptural. We left and I'm thinking ok what is goign on here.

Katy

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Katy,
While I do consider myself Messianic (not as in Messianic Judaism), I will say that in most Messianic Jewish/Gentile congregations you will not find Sacred Name believers. Messianic Judaism is basically a movement to go back to the roots of Judaism itself but still holding on to Yeshua as the Messiah. I personally, have found Messianic Judaism as nothing more than Christianity with a Jewish flavor. I study Messianic Judaism for a few years and found it just wasn't the faith for me. I do respect the movement but I could definitely see it being difficult for you and your husband to participate in one. Especially, if you and your husband's beliefs are more in line with regular sacred name groups. I don't know if you already know, but most Messianic congregations hold to the Trinity as well (if you believe in the Trinity..I hope I am not causing offense) but the Bible doesn't support such a doctrine.

I have to say I am not shocked at the treatment you and your husband received. So called believers turn on a person faster than non-believers do. It's outrageous! Why didn't they at least say, "While we don't agree with you, we can respect your opinion and if you choose not to say certain words we will support you and respect your right to not say certain words." But even then if they say them and you all don't.. that seems like you all aren't on one accord... division...

Would it be possible for you to locate any congregations that are not involved with Messianic Judaism and more in line with the doctrine of Sacred Name groups ?

Shalom,
Missy

Are you in Missouri as well? We are getting settled somewhat It saddened my heart to read your posts in this thread. I did not know if when that "hymnal" was put together if there was an accidental omission in forgetting to remove "titles" or if the "hymnal" was made deliberately inserting those "titles" My hopes were that it was an error in copying. I know I have quoted Scriptures and inadvertantly forgot to re-insert YHWH's Name.
I always feel horrible when I do!

I wonder if anyone is noticing what I have been witnessing all the more increased as of late. YHWH wishes His people to unite in Spirit and truth, to come to the unity of faith. The enemy has a job, and he seems to be doing it well. He came to kill, steal and destroy, but our Messiah came that we might have life, and have it more abundantly. As the time approaches where YHWH's people are to be gathering, (strength in numbers) against the forces of the wicked one, he is very cunning and crafty at finding ways in which we as believers have left a door open for attack. We so easily get offended and angry and forget totally what forgiving seventy times seven is all about, forget totally what laying down OUR live for our brethren is about, and we begin listening to his evil whiperss and it is WE who begin laying down the lives of our brethren, and holding unforgiveness and anger in us. The body of Ha Moshiach is under a massive attack. Divisive division is NOT of YHWH! Our struggles are NOT against flesh and blood, so why are we permitting ourselves to be part of such struggles? Where is the love for one another? Scriptures teach us that any man who says that he loves YHWH, and loves not his brother is a liar, and the truth is not in him. It's past high time of the body of believers to gather, to rally against this attack, to stop these attacks. Assemblies are rising up one against the other, slandering one another, gossiping against one another...but on which Word of YHWH do they stand? From whence comes striving? From whence comes hatred? From whence comes division? The enemy wishes us to pick apart one another, rather than focus on YHWH who lives in us, we are being taught to find the "dead man" within one another, and bring life to it. This is not of move of YHWH, for only the enemy seeks YHWH's people to be scattered, so he can move in for the kill so to speak as YHWH's sheep are scattered all over. The Word of YHWH says woe to that man who scatters His sheep. Are we really so filled with knowledge that we have lost the ability to love one another? Are we so hurt that we cannot love others in the body? If anyone of us would smash our elbow, we would stop what we are doing, and grab ahold of that arm, and tenderly hold on until that pain passed. The body has so many aching parts right now! We need to all stop and refocus. What I am about to share, some may not like to hear. In the beginning, YHWH put a tree of knowledge of good and evil. Today, many are eating from this tree. Pride within us, drives us to study harder, longer, find more and more resources to "back" our teachings...and we all turn into little teachers. We crave more and more wisdom and knowledge, so we can explain just who YHWH is, and what HE wants from HIS people. We begin to recreate HIM in our understanding and in our passion and zeal for more knowledge something else happens. We begin to be wise in our own understanding. With our "sword" we begin to swing wildly and choose to "help" YHWH out. Cutting off any branches we feel don't measure up to our knowledge of Who YHWH is, what HIS desire is, and we even attempt to drag them to the burning pit, and cast them off! What is the drive for all this knowledge of good and evil? How does it bring us to YHWH? It appears to bring YHWH to us instead. We put HIM in boxes of our own definition, and anyone who does not line up, is a heretic and no longer our brother. The book of Ya'acob is clear on wisdom.

Jam 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of YHWH, and he shall lift you up.
Jam 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
Jam 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

Jam 3:13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
Jam 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
Jam 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
Jam 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
Jam 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
Jam 3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

My sister, may YHWH grant you and your husband, the kind of wisdom that is pure and peaceable, gentle and easy to be intreated, may you show YHWH's mercy and good fruits! May you be used of YHWH to sow peace.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven!

I plead with all my brethren to unite in faith with all their brethren, to speedily forgive even as we are forgiven, to love even as we are loved, to test out what it is, to put away pride that separates, and attempt laying down life for the brethren. Yes, thats putting ourselves LAST and them first, and be willing to defend them to our death! Fight the good fight of faith, let our fight not be against flesh and blood, put put our focus where it should be, against the powers of darkness which are working very hard to detroy YHWH's people.

You said,

""""Was the behaviour of the people attending intimidating? Were they vehemently and agressively attacking your claims? If so then you experience what I experience everytime I try to explain that I do not know any God or Lord but I know Yahweh.

This is spiritual warfare and I think we (including myself at times) tend to forget the nature of spiritual things. When we have these discussions about this topic we are attacking the very nature of the enemies faith: and that is that they love God/Lord over Yahweh. Both in simple terms: by not accepting the word Yahweh; and in complex terms: by not accepting the spirit of Yahweh.""" Unquote..

That is exactly the point, we fight against spiritual wickedness in high places,and anytime the Advasary and his false faith of nature is attacked or threatened he is going to fight all his might with deception, because he does not want us in unity, for when we are all united against his main deception that he has tricked and deceived "" THE WHOLE WORLD"( Rev.12:9) into Idolatry by the practice of "" SYNCRETISIM "" the entirety of this age for to worship him( See and read--Rev.9:20-21; Rev.13:3-4, and verse 8) very carefully and medatate on those scriptures.

( Rev.9:20-21)""""20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues YET REPENTED NOT of the works of their hands, that they should not WORSHIP DEMONS( Devils), and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts."""""

Pause here, now look at ALL THESE THINGS that people are doing, even AFTER these PLAQUES are poured out on them, and LOOK AT WHAT OR WHOM THEY ARE WORSHIPPING, it is DEMONS.

Now I realize that many of these things are of the world and is going on in the world this very day, and if people cannot see and recognize this, then, they are evidently blinded by deception to the truth of these scriptures.

Queation; Why did NONE( including the demon worshippers)of these people NOT REPENT even AFTER these PLAQUES were poured out on them ?

Because they were complacent in their belief, thinking, and teachings, that they were convinced in their minds that they were OK and in right standing in their WORSHIP.

This above reminds me of ( Matt.7:22) and you know what Messiah said in this verse.

There can be no other way for satan to """"""" And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.( Rev.12:9)

( Rev.13:3-4)--3. and all the world wondered after the beast.

4. And they WORSHIPPED THE DRAGON( satan the devil see( Rev.12:9)above) which gave power unto the beast: and they WORSHIPPED THE BEAST( Government Kingdom, for beast is synonomous with Kings and their Kingdoms, See Dan.7:23; Rev.17:10-12).

( Rev.13:8)"""""8 And ALL( not a few) THAT DWELL UPON THE EARTH SHALL WORSHIP HIM( satan the devil and the beast government kingdom), whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9. If any man have an ear, let him hear.( Rev.13:8-9).

And Sojourners,

Please, I do not say this in harshness, and I do not want you to mis-understand me, however, I love Yahweh's people, and if we do not judge what is right and what is wrong by using the Torah or law, and even among ourselves now, as Paul says in ( 1 Cor.6:2-4)then are we really obeying the scriptures?

We all know to NOT JUDGE each others hearts or minds, and them that are without of the Assembly( 1 Cor.5:12) that is true, and we are not to judge the Torah or Law istself that is true too, however, we must judge what is truth or true and what is right from wrong or error by using the law and the entirety of the scriptures among the Assembly.

That is one of the very purposes of the scriptures( 2 Timothy 3:16-17; Jude 3).

As concerning spiritual wickedness, I will also make a statement made by Brother Matthew Janzen that He said on a CD that I heard, when he said ....

"""" We are to pray for our personal enemies that is true, however, we are NOT to pray for YAHWEH'S enemies."""" Unquote.

And satan the devil is not only YAHWEH'S enemy, however, he is also our enemy too.

And whether some want to admit it or not, satan the devil does not mostly work to deceive only governments and the world outside, however, he mostly comes among the Assembly as an angel of LIGHT or TRUTH, but he also has HIS MINISTERS( whether deceived or not deceived) who ARE TRANSFORMED( and appears and have changed themselves) AS THE MINISTERS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, whose end shall be according to their works.( 2 Cor.11:14-15).

I too as Brother Mesobaite, will NEVER recognize any TITLE/ NAME in substitute that has deceived the people into NOT knowing His TRUE NAME, other than YHWH- YAHWEH- YAH( Exod.3:13-15; Exod.15:2; Psalms 68:4)

All I can say is as the scriptures;If any man have an ear, let him hear.

However, who has an ear to hear, concerning all the people's that dwell on the earth worshipping satan and the beast kingdom in the LAST DAYS( Rev.9:20; Rev.12:9; Rev.13:3-4, and verse 8) through his deception though ?

Elyahc==Eljah C.

quote:

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Originally posted by Sojourners:
Shalom sister Katy,

Are you in Missouri as well? We are getting settled somewhat It saddened my heart to read your posts in this thread. I did not know if when that "hymnal" was put together if there was an accidental omission in forgetting to remove "titles" or if the "hymnal" was made deliberately inserting those "titles" My hopes were that it was an error in copying. I know I have quoted Scriptures and inadvertantly forgot to re-insert YHWH's Name.
I always feel horrible when I do!

I wonder if anyone is noticing what I have been witnessing all the more increased as of late. YHWH wishes His people to unite in Spirit and truth, to come to the unity of faith. The enemy has a job, and he seems to be doing it well. He came to kill, steal and destroy, but our Messiah came that we might have life, and have it more abundantly. As the time approaches where YHWH's people are to be gathering, (strength in numbers) against the forces of the wicked one, he is very cunning and crafty at finding ways in which we as believers have left a door open for attack. We so easily get offended and angry and forget totally what forgiving seventy times seven is all about, forget totally what laying down OUR live for our brethren is about, and we begin listening to his evil whiperss and it is WE who begin laying down the lives of our brethren, and holding unforgiveness and anger in us. The body of Ha Moshiach is under a massive attack. Divisive division is NOT of YHWH! Our struggles are NOT against flesh and blood, so why are we permitting ourselves to be part of such struggles? Where is the love for one another? Scriptures teach us that any man who says that he loves YHWH, and loves not his brother is a liar, and the truth is not in him. It's past high time of the body of believers to gather, to rally against this attack, to stop these attacks. Assemblies are rising up one against the other, slandering one another, gossiping against one another...but on which Word of YHWH do they stand? From whence comes striving? From whence comes hatred? From whence comes division? The enemy wishes us to pick apart one another, rather than focus on YHWH who lives in us, we are being taught to find the "dead man" within one another, and bring life to it. This is not of move of YHWH, for only the enemy seeks YHWH's people to be scattered, so he can move in for the kill so to speak as YHWH's sheep are scattered all over. The Word of YHWH says woe to that man who scatters His sheep. Are we really so filled with knowledge that we have lost the ability to love one another? Are we so hurt that we cannot love others in the body? If anyone of us would smash our elbow, we would stop what we are doing, and grab ahold of that arm, and tenderly hold on until that pain passed. The body has so many aching parts right now! We need to all stop and refocus. What I am about to share, some may not like to hear. In the beginning, YHWH put a tree of knowledge of good and evil. Today, many are eating from this tree. Pride within us, drives us to study harder, longer, find more and more resources to "back" our teachings...and we all turn into little teachers. We crave more and more wisdom and knowledge, so we can explain just who YHWH is, and what HE wants from HIS people. We begin to recreate HIM in our understanding and in our passion and zeal for more knowledge something else happens. We begin to be wise in our own understanding. With our "sword" we begin to swing wildly and choose to "help" YHWH out. Cutting off any branches we feel don't measure up to our knowledge of Who YHWH is, what HIS desire is, and we even attempt to drag them to the burning pit, and cast them off! What is the drive for all this knowledge of good and evil? How does it bring us to YHWH? It appears to bring YHWH to us instead. We put HIM in boxes of our own definition, and anyone who does not line up, is a heretic and no longer our brother. The book of Ya'acob is clear on wisdom.

Jam 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of YHWH, and he shall lift you up.
Jam 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
Jam 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

Jam 3:13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
Jam 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
Jam 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
Jam 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
Jam 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
Jam 3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

My sister, may YHWH grant you and your husband, the kind of wisdom that is pure and peaceable, gentle and easy to be intreated, may you show YHWH's mercy and good fruits! May you be used of YHWH to sow peace.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven!

I plead with all my brethren to unite in faith with all their brethren, to speedily forgive even as we are forgiven, to love even as we are loved, to test out what it is, to put away pride that separates, and attempt laying down life for the brethren. Yes, thats putting ourselves LAST and them first, and be willing to defend them to our death! Fight the good fight of faith, let our fight not be against flesh and blood, put put our focus where it should be, against the powers of darkness which are working very hard to detroy YHWH's people.

In the love of YHWH,
Tamar

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Wise words as always. YHWH bless you sister.

your bro,

Kel

Well said.

Too many of us are striving to "prove" our position. We recently heard a sermon via tape ministry teaching how to "counsel" others. It seems to me that there are way too many counsellors and too few counselled.

As a verbose individual...it has been convicting to read the scripture of Proverbs 10:19 When words are many, Transgression is not absent, But he who restrains his lips is wise.

"""Elyahc, how are you doing? I remember you in my prayers. I have no idea how you ruptured your discs and pinched your nerves, but I know you must be in extreme pain. May Yahweh heal you and restore you to perfect health.

I appreciate all the research you shared. I hadn't done much research into the name/title "Bog," so I found that and the other information very interesting."""

The pain is the worst arround my waist, low back, and legs when I awake from sleep, that is why I dread to even lay down to sleep, I've lifted heavy weights all my life and I have degenerative( dying discs)in my back, and when the discs are black ( while normal discs are white) and break apart by lifting heavy weights( 200-300 ) pounds for 12 years, then the bones come pinching or crushes the nerves that is wrapped arround the spinal column( as this is what caused the Neurosurgen to cut into my spinal column causing spinal fluid leakage), and this is what causes the sever pain to the hips and legs, then inturn causes severe pain to the lower parts below the crushed discs and pinched nerves, as this is the study that i've done on it says, and it is certainly true too.

I REPENT now for even going, however, I have tried to tolerate this pain for now 6 years, My wife and I have prayed and prayed to the Father Yahweh for healing in Messiah's Name, and restoration for even to receive from Him new discs( For I truely do believe that He can, and I know His word says that it is His will for us to prosper and be in the BEST OF HEALTH) for my back or either remove the pain.

It seems that Yahweh hears and answers my prayers for others, but not for myself, why is that I sometimes wonder?

However, I really do need everyone's prayers for a miracle from YHWH, or else I will become cripled and still be in severe pain.

The first surgery was for the discs which was crushed and pinching 3 nerves, and the last two surgeries were to stop the spinal fluid leakage which caused severe headaches and can cause menengitis, however, the last two surgeries did me more dammage, as now my right low back and left leg is now in pain.

I started out with the first surgery on the 10th of Oct., I come out of the hospital within 4 to 5 days, then everything was ok for the first 3 days, no pain in the left hip or leg or foot( boy was that a relief for those few days), but the the 2 inch cut in my back began to leak a clear liquid, and my wife had to change the bandages 10 times a day for 2 days to absorb the spinal fluid, then I returned to Lexington Ky.

Then they did another surgery which I stayed for two 3 week in the hospital that time, they sent me home again, but the headaches were so severe I had to contact the hospital again and go back again, bit this time they cut a hold through my right upper side and taped into my spinal column with a valve to take the pressure off the fluid from off the original cutting damage in my spinal cord which I had to stay in the hospital another 3 weeks, and I had a tube that ran to the outside into a plastic bag to catch the spinal fluid leakage which my wife had to measure and empty each day and I had to drink double the ammount of water or 7 up that I was leaking in spinal fluid to keep my spinal cord producing more spinal fluid, then I had to waite 4 weeks for the original cut to try and heal itself together, now they have removed the valve and tube and bag, but it was all in vain, however now there is dammage to my right low back from the last( 3rd) surgery.

I started with a 2 inch cut up my back the first surgery, then another added 2 inch cut the second surgery, the another 2 in cut the 3rd surgery, and now I have a cut from the bottom of my low back that is 6 inces long, besides the hole they cut into my side for the tube and valve.

The cut is almost completely healed up, however, my low back on BOTH let and right sides are now in severe pain, from my waist down ito my hips and legs a left foot.

I was ok for the first week after the last surgery with no pain at all hardly except from the cuts themselves, but then I felt a "" snap like in my low back "" and I have been in severe pain from my waist down ever since.

I go back to the hospital "" TOMORROW "" for them to do another "" M.R.I. scan on my mid and lower back to see if the discs have moved back onto the nerves again, however, I know they have, because my hips and legs and left foot is in severe pain that is getting unbearable.

Except this time my the right side of my low back and right leg is in severe pain, but before these surgeries, it was only the left low back, hip, leg, and foot that was in severe pain, but now it is BOTH sides now that is in severe pain.

I REPENT for even going there now in the first place, however, I'm going to see what this M.R.I. shows anyway to see if they have dammaged the discs on my right side, because my right side never was in pain untill this last surgery.

Brother Matthew and His Family even drove all the way from Georgia to where I live here in the wilderness Mountains of Ky. which he can tell you it is a long drive to get here.

I live very deep in the mountains of Ky.

I love Brother Matthew and his family, he is a fine young man, and he has a loving wife and and children too, I really do appreciate Him comimg this far, to me he is a fine teacher of the scriptures, the best of the best.

You aso said, """"I appreciate all the research you shared. I hadn't done much research into the name/title "Bog," so I found that and the other information very interesting."""" Unquote.

Your vey welcome my Brother, we are of the same thinking concerning this matter of honaring the Father YAHWEH with only the best as we can discern from scriptures and living by them, for He is the only BEST and JUST there is, and ever will be forevermore, blessed be the MIGHTY YAH of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob Israel forever, AH-MEIN!!

I, like you, am seeking to "" rid myself "" of anything and everthing including idol titles/ names that are not scriptural in my life that to BETTER Honor and serve the true FATHER YAHWEH blessed be forever.

If I can ever be of assistance to You or anyone on the forum in any way my Brothers and Sisters just let me know.

I truely need a miracle from MY FATHER YAHWEH for healing, and I would appreciate everyone's prayers.

However, no matter what happens to me, I will never give up my faith in Yahweh and Messiah, their names will forever be in my mind and in my mouth.

With much love and respect Brother Larry and to everyone who seeks the truth of scriptures on this forum.

Shalom,

Elyahc = Eljah C.

Ps. you want to know how I got the stagh infection, it was because of the last 2 surgeries i had while staying so long in the hospital, I have a pic line about 2 feet long that goes in at my arm at the upper bend below my elbow that goes through the vein to the main artery of my heart to Administer the Vancomyiacin antibiotic which my wife administers to me every day, and i've been on it now for six weeks, which it too can cause liver and kidney dammage if taken too long, i'm praying this is the last week that i have to take it, because they told me it usually took six weeks to kill that infection, I pray so.

Our family's prayers go out to you. Dh was injured in an auto accident 8 years ago and has some of the same symtoms. He has the leaky spinal fluid and people look at us like we are crazy as if it doesn't happen. He opted not to have the surgery as it wouldn't improve much and would probably have to redo every so often. Well pray for you and keep the stress level low if you can as it seems to increase the pain.