posted 12-06-2001 12:56 AM            

James 4:6 => "But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: "God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble."

Gnosticism is an old heresy with demonic origins, and much on the beliefs made by IDMR and the Sacred Name movement are based on superstitions, unsubstantiated conjecture, fallacy, and truism, not on objective biblical truth.

Here are the links of research that proof my points:

http://home.regent.edu/hilthar/Ministry/Proof%20IDMR%20is%20a%20Cult%20and%20Dangerous.htm

http://www.crosswinds.net/~thename/JesusZeus.htm

I love people and I desire to see them in heaven. Thank you for your time.

In Christ Jesus,

posted 12-06-2001 09:16 AM         

Shalom,
Servant

posted 12-06-2001 10:38 AM            

You can believe the lies the Jews tell you about how the name can not be pronounced if you like. The early Church Fathers tell us and the Jewish Encyclopedia confirms that they knew how to pronounce the name. Josephus a Jew said it was four vowels; in the Greek IAUE as the Church Father agree. You can also believe that Jesus is not an erroneous transliteration just as Jehovah is if you want.

All I ask is that you don't spread lies about the people which prefer to use the name of Yahueh and Yahushua today. We don't believe that Jesus is a transliteration of Zues. Anyone proposing such a thing is not knowledgable on the topic. I know this is an error that has been passed around in sacred name circles for years but is not true as anyone which does a study of the Strong's Concordance and a few lexicons can ascertain.

Finally I am not anyones' judge or able to condemn to the lake of fire. It is just my most basic instinct that I would want my name as correctly as possible pronounced in all languages.

As far as the IDMR goes most of us do not support them as they teach that the law of Yahueh our God has no bearing on a righteous standard of behavior.

Christianity with it's many sects is not perfect and does not have a strangle hold on the truth. Yahushua said that many would come in His name and decieve many. Just because this was and is happening does not mean all people that use the name of Yahueh and Yahushua are wrong, just as users of the name Jehovah and Jesus are not all wrong, (just don't know how to transliterate from Hebrew into English very well.)

As far as the New Testament goes being originally in Greek there is about as much proof for this as there is for them being originally in Aramaic or Hebrew. Both sides present some valid points. In my mind those like James Trimm, Herb Jahn, and Victor Alexander, win the arguement and present the most valid arguements for it being written in at least Aramaic first. Matthew has tons of evidence that it was written first in Hebrew, from the witness of church fathers to the Shem Tob and DuTillet manuscripts preserved by the Jewish Community in their attempts to refute Yahushua and His claim to Messiahship.

I am sorry that some one has offended you and you have to go on the attack. Have you read the responce to Gary Mink that was posted by James Trimm on this forum in the past ? If not then it might be helpful in taking a more balanced approach.

I worship with people which prefer the transliteration Jesus and Yahweh but are tolerant and accepting of those which use the transliterations Jehovah and Yahushua. I know it seems inconsistent but the pastor prefers yes you read it correctly Yahweh and Jesus. I don't judge them of condemn just seek to remain open and desire to allow the Holy Spirit which I recieved at age 9 with the evidence of speaking in languages as the Spirt gave the utterance to lead and guide all of us into more truth. It does not help anyone to go into the attack mode and put others down but we need to correct the radicals in love on both sides of this arguement and tell them both when they are speading lies and mis-information about their brothers and sisters.

Ephesians chapter 4:25 tells us to put away lying, speak every man truth to his neighbor: for we are members one of another. Some of the information on the web sites you recommend is not the whole truth but facts presented in isoation to other facts in a deceptive way out of anger and malice to influence one part of the Body of the Messiah against another part. It does not have the Unity of the Spirit in the bonds of peace speaking the truth in love in it but is as reactionary as those it seeks to correct.

The body of Messiah in many parts is guilty of adultery in the most serious fashion with the celebration of idolatrous holidays and pagan customs that effect our teachings and witness to the world in many areas. This is a problem we should all be keenly aware of and quit attacking one another but attack the error no matter where it is at or what faction it is among. Let us unite against obvious error then let us join our hands to eradicate small errors remembering what the Apostle Paul told the Corinthians that there must be heresies among us for those which are approved to become evident.

In the name of our Lord Yahushua the Messiah/Christ,

posted 12-06-2001 11:07 AM         

I understand your perspective. I walked that path once before. But, I believe in truth. {Joshua 24:14, Proverbs 14:22}. I always have even when I was being brain washed by the 'christian faith' all my life. I knew something wasn't right but I couldn't put a finger on it. It couldn't be that the creator doesn't exist that's a foolish notion. Then what was it. What was I missing.

Due to my desire for the true knowledge of the almighty and HIS plan for mankind, Yahweh never allowed me to fully comply with 'christian' dogma. It was like I was being sheltered from the damage it would do to my soul - He was preserving me. {Psalms 139:3-5, Proverbs 2:8}

Yahweh had a different course for me even in the midst of the 'christian' chaos:
I grew up in a strict 'christian' home. When I was about 14 My parents owned a 'christian' book store and it was my job to distribute tracks and sell comic books in the neighbourhood. I began reading the comic books and thats how I learned of the great deceiption. I found out about who and what babylon was: economic - USA, Europe etc., political - 'the free world' and spiritual - Papal Rome - the world system. And as babylon I know better than to follow her. {Proverbs 1:15, 4:14, Revelation 18:4}

I did much research since then and began realizing just how brain washed the whole world is. I started understanding the truth about the 10 commandments and the Sabbath {Psalms 119:35, Exodus 20:8}. I began to study and research with several SDA friends. But something was missing still, this wasn't enough.

Then one day while surfing the net, I came across what some call the Sacred Name Movement. I learned the truth about the matchless name of the almighty. {Exodus 20:7, 23:13, Deut 6:13, 10:20, Matthew 6:19}. I must admit that at the same time I learned that this 'movement' is almost as divided as your 'christian' church. But I didn't let that stop me. You see you will never learn the truth if you don't seek and press on regardless of the obstacles. The true path to the almighty is just that - a path, a journey. {Proverbs 4:18}

This path has a beginning; the beginning is the almighty Yahweh. {Proverbs 8:22}. Before anything was HE was. And he had a name then too. HIS name was and is Yahweh as we spell it in English. But the spelling is what doesn't matter not the name. Once you spell it so that you say it right, then you are on the right track. It sounds like this - ee aa oo ay - when you say it fluently its Yahweh. If you spell it YHWH or YHVH and it makes you say - ee aa oo ay - then good for you. But we are not to change it to God or Jehovah. That is ridiculous. You are deceived and will burn if you do not repent.

But I love you even though I don't know you and I must be patient with you in this regard and for HIM.

The conspirators - babylon - Papal Rome - know that God and Jesus are charlatans. They probably laugh at their followers whenever they call on those names. But you must remember they are not doing the work of the heavenly Father Yahweh. So do not even learn their ways. {Jeremiah 10:2}.

Research some more but consider this while you do: if the truth of Yahweh and HIS Son Yahushua Messiah came out to the masses wouldn't satan try to confuse the issue? Well, he will deceive the masses but I will not conform to lies... I will seek truth.

posted 12-06-2001 03:34 PM            

Meso when you wrote of Father Yah preserving your soul against the antinomian dogma of christianity, I almost cried. That is MY STORY EXACTLY.

Yahweh bless, Yahweh bless, Yahweh bless all of you, including Hilltop.

posted 12-06-2001 05:12 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by hiltop:
The God of the Bible has not changed, and will greatly bring down the man's arrogance of puffed-up, pseudo-knowledge about Him. Prov. 15:25, Prov. 16:5, Prov 6:17, Prov. 21:4, Prov. 21:24, Prov. 16:18, 1Tim 3:6, Luke 1:51, 1Tim 6:4,

I love people and I desire to see them in heaven. Thank you for your time.

In Christ Jesus,

Raphael M.

---

You should read about your own religion and remove the beam first.
http://www.snake-oil.net/

In Yahshua HaMashiach,

Daron

posted 12-07-2001 04:46 AM            

James 4:6 => "But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: "God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble."

My sarcasam and unimpressed grammar should portray that baseless arguments arguing that arguments are baseless have found their place in the "overused" basket. To warrant an intelligent response, please post a detailed study of your arguments that they may no longer be called baseless.

posted 12-07-2001 07:30 AM            

There is NO ONE on the face of this earth that knows it all, for as I Cor. 13 tells us, we "know in part and prophesy in part." HaSatan has deceived the "whole world," and that encludes you Raphael. Everyone YHWH is leading, and even those who do not profess knowing the name of YHWH has some truth.

We must all seek to remove the beam from our own eyes before trying to point the finger at others.

There is no assembly on earth that is perfect. As the saying goes, "Show me an assembly that is perfect, and when I enter, it will become imperfect."

We must humble ourselves, and not be so anxious to judge others, realizing that we all are on different levels of understanding.

Incidentally, Raphael, not everyone that has studied and accepts the name of YHWH and Yahushua belong to the Sacred Name Movement(SNM). To think, or say so is gross ignorance on anyone's part. I have accepted the "Sacred Name" for many years, and yet have never belonged to nor seek to belong to the SNM, nor have I ever heard of IDMR until your post. The problem with such thinking that you have introduced on this forum is that it is indicative of the world at large, which seeks to categorize a group people into a little neat box for its convenience; IE, all Blacks are unlearned, all Whites are prejudice, etc.

We are in the last days, and just about anything will be coming out of the woodworks to discourage YHWH's elect, and those who are striving to come out of the traditional religions of this sick world. However, Scripture warns those who are YHWH's to "hold on to that which is good," and promises that the elect will not be deceived. Those who are YHWH's hear only HIS voice, and no other. This does not mean that we are perfect, for no human is.

I suggest prayer, fasting and more study Raphael. Your judging here is not good.

Blessings,

Riyah

posted 12-07-2001 09:52 PM         

Goodyman, thank you for your response it encourages me to continue expressing what the Father has laid on my heart.

Riyah, you perplex me as do many who take the stand that you do. Yet in a good sense :-). You see since I have come to learn the FOUNDATION of truth (who the Father really is) I have been very angry. I cant believe I've been deceived all my life (35 years). It really gets to me. Anyway I've noticed two modes of believers since I've been here: those who are sympathetic with people like Raphael and those who are not. I've always sided with the non sympathetic attitude. But after reading your post I somehow have come to a new level of understanding. You see how truth works, it is LIGHT not darkness.

Nevertheless, don't forget that this is war (spiritually). Never be too soft with the enemy. We must love them, but don't forget there is also tough love, and it is very effective. Thats how I came to the truth. If I had only read posts like yours when I first came to this sight I would never have believed. Sometimes the best way to deal with brain washing is to 'slap' the individual to their senses. And for your sake Riyah I do say sometimes... :-)

May Yahweh continue to bless us all who diligently seek after HIM in truth, in the name of Yahushua Messiah.

The Mesobaite {1Chronicles 11:47}
...and I shall be mighty for HIM...

[This message has been edited by Mesobaite (edited 12-07-2001).]

posted 12-08-2001 12:33 AM            

Yah be with you.

I would like to first say; I came into an "IDMR" Class in Louisville Ky, in 1988. It was there and through the teachings of Dr. H.C. Kinley, that I learned the "Gospel accordin to the scriptures. and "The Tabernacle". Since then I have been to these classes all over the United States. I "know" them very well. Like "all" human beings, they are not "fool proof". They will often tell you that "class" is not the "ark of Noah".

NO One, outside of "Spying and Imahebrew" have I ever witnessed to be able to "run the scriptures" like these people. If one ever looks in their phone book for "IDMR" (Insitute of Divine Metaphysical Research) The first thing you may notice is they often hold their classes in the "poorest" section of the town/city. Also, you will never see them "pass a plate", never ask you to "pay" anything but "attention". The deans of the classes foot the bill for the building or they hold classes in their homes. and FEED many many people afterwards.

They are of the finest people (all over the US)that I have ever had the pleasure of fellowshipping with. THey are among the most gentle and patient to all who has questions, and they always answer "with scripture". ALWAYS!

So... after 14 years being in and visiting many classes, I can testify they are of the most "Scriptured" people I have ever met. They would put most any preacher to shame.

I don't know where you are getting your info from, but I have always found it is best to "attend" yourself. and I don't think "once or twice" is suffecient to have a "truthful" opinion of them.

First time I went to class, I had MANY Questions. It was rare that they came across someone that knew the scriptures as well, as they are used to the very poor people. I arrived at 11:00 am, class lasted about 2 hours, afterward we all ate and sat around "talking" scripture. I askd question after question, there were about 5 of them. NOT ONE lost patience with me, with each question they said; "Good question, turn to..."
This went on until 10 pm. at night I have had preachers get upset with me and end up saying, Well, DeAnna, you just gotta have faith. Not everything can be explained. But not these people. Not the least bit attitude or grumpyness from any of them.

I have seen them pull togeather and pay peoples rent, send them to conventions, get them jobs, etc. These are truly GOOD people, as far as "people go" if we can say some are "good". but you know what I mean.

As far as the "NAME" goes... any one interested in the TRUTH, about the matter; here it is;

"YHWH" means; THE EXISTING ONE (# 3068)
The WORD > "NAME" in Hebrew is "shem".

Shem: #7760 swm {soom}¤ a primitive root 1) to put, place, set, appoint, make, (Qal) to put, set, lay, put or lay upon, lay (violent) hands on, to set, direct, direct toward, to extend (compassion) (fig) to set, ordain, establish, found,
appoint, constitute, make, determine, fix to set, station, put, set in place, plant, fix, to make, make for, transform into, constitute, fashion, work, bring to pass, appoint, give (Hiphil) to set or make for a sign 1c) (Hophal) to be set

If one studies "AYAH ASHER AYAH" (I am that I am) will also come to find, it basically means HE is the AUTHORITY of ALL THAT EXISTS!

Scripture IT-SELF will show forth that "coming in the Name" or "blessed is he who comes in the Name", or when Yahshua said;
"I have manifested thy NAME unto them" What it means by "NAME" is POWER or AUTHORITY. When one walks, comes, blesses, prays in the NAME of the Father, they are walkin, coming, blessing,praying, healing etc. in the POWER or AUTHORITY of the Heavenly Father.

When one reads about Moses, and Moses was afraid, and said; "when I go to the children of Israel, and say to them; "AYAH ASHER AYAH" (authority of all that exists) has appeared unto me, they will not beleive me.

Yah then says to Moses; "What is in thy hand?" Moses says a rod.
Yah says; "Cast it down", Moses does, and it turns into a snake.
Same with the hand in the bosom. The point being,is that YAH is the AUTHORITY or the POWER OF ALL THAT EXISTS!

In acts 4th. chapt. The High priests ask Peter, "by what NAME OR BY WHAT "POWER" have ye done this?"

Again, showing forth that 'name' and 'power' or authority is one and the SAME.

I love the name Yahshua, as I know WHAT IT MEANS; >
"Yahs SALVATION". Most people can't come to know this through the "name" (phonetic) of Jesus. For Yahshua Came in the Fathers POWER/NAME/AUHORITY.

SO... if one saying a physical name; "Jesus, Yahshua, Allah" etc.
And BELIEVE that their HEAVENLY FATHER, Their MAKER!!! is the AUTHORITY of ALL... they "come in the name/power/authority of their Father (maker).

Yah is SPIRIT people, and we are so hung up on the "physical", we can hardly realize who it is that is our 'MAKER'.

I lean toward YAH because this is what King David called him in the hebrew scriptures approx. 40 times. And through studying David, I came to do the same. But I do know that YAHSHUA does NOT "JUDGE" by the "flesh". and a phonetic "sound" is physical!

People can say the "sacred" names all thy want, but unless they come to the understanding that they have a 'MAKER', who is willing to "re make" you according to HIS Word, and HE and ONLY HE has the POWER AND THE AUTHORITY to do so, (not ourselves)
Their phonetics simply does not compare to knowing what;
"Blessed is he who comes in the name" is really all about.

I hope I don't come across to gruff, I typed fast as I am needed elsewhere. It's just that Yah has done soooo much for me, and has delivered me out of old ways that I never thought I could ever come out of. But once I started ASKING Him as DAVID Asked him... to "Make me" according to his word, (which IDMR Taught me by the way) my life has truly, truly changed. And it was NOT by my "own" strength, or self dicipline, it was truly believing that Yah was willing to create in me a pure heart and answer my prayers,of how I desired to "be".

And He will for anyone that truly turns their heart to Him; regardless what phonetic physical name one is speaking) and ASKS Him "O' Yah, grant me thy laws graciously" / O' Yah, take from me a lying tongue,/ O' Yah, enlarge my heart that I may follow after thy commands... o'Yah, "forsake not the works of thine own hands.

Yah granted David these things, and scripture says that DAvid was PUT HERE TO BE A WITNESS UNTO US.

This is the "key of DAvid". And Yah y(our) "maker" is willing for ALL who "turn unto Him".

May Yah be magnified, May we, his bride seek His companionship.
For this is why we were created, to be His companion. And He desires to be y(our) champion. For He is our potter, we are the clay... And by HIS molding, making, creating, shall a thing come about. Beleive in HIS authority/power... not our own.

posted 12-08-2001 06:55 AM            

Riyah, you perplex me as do many who take the stand that you do. Yet in a good sense :-). You see since I have come to learn the FOUNDATION of truth (who the Father really is) I have been very angry. I cant believe I've been deceived all my life (35 years). It really gets to me. Anyway I've noticed two modes of believers since I've been here: those who are sympathetic with people like Raphael and those who are not. I've always sided with the non sympathetic attitude. But after reading your post I somehow have come to a new level of understanding. You see how truth works, it is LIGHT not darkness.

Nevertheless, don't forget that this is war (spiritually). Never be too soft with the enemy. We must love them, but don't forget there is also tough love, and it is very effective. Thats how I came to the truth. If I had only read posts like yours when I first came to this sight I would never have believed. Sometimes the best way to deal with brain washing is to 'slap' the individual to their senses. And for your sake Riyah I do say sometimes... :-)"

Shalom Mesobaite,

Now I can say that you perlex me also. That makes two of us. Please be SPECIFIC by quoting to me the areas of my post to Raphael where you have ascertained I was too "soft" in my response. Perhaps such information will help me in my future postings.

I am aware, as you seem to be Mesobaite, that we are in a war "spiritually."

As you have stated, you came to "the truth" by being slapped. Whether or not the slapping one receives is good, depends on one's definition of "the truth."

Riyah

posted 12-08-2001 07:50 AM            

I have just read your post about IDMR's knowledge of Scripture, all the good they do for many people, and your opinion on Yah's name.

Firstly, let me say that you letters to this forum show forth much love, which without, no one no matter how much "truth" they possess or claim to possess will not enter into the Kingdom.

It is this lack of love that I personally miss and struggle with daily from those who claim to possess "the truth," and knowledge of YHWH's great Name, and yet become so puffed up with "knowledge," agitated and impatient with their fellow man or the brethren. It appears that much of the time when persons claim to know YHWH's name, they are speaking PHONETICALLY, since to really KNOW YHWH's name is to know and live its characteristics.

While reading your post about the great knowledge of Scripture that IDMR possesses, it struck me that the Evil One knows more scripture than all of us. After all, who was there at the beginning? Therefore, knowledge of Scripture does not prove righteousness in and of itself. Just as many people believe that the miracle of healing proves righteousness, when the Scriptures warn of the "lying wonders" that HaSatan is well capable of, and will be performing in the end time. You are most likely aware of how Scripture tells us that in the end, there will be those who come to Messiah spouting off about the miracles they had performed in His Name, and how Messiah will say, "I never knew you." So please do not be so impressed just because someone can spurt off scriptures. Remember, so can HaSatan, even more so than IDMR. And as far as all the "good" IDMR does for people. What better way than to impress and gather people for one's cause, especially those in the poor neighborhoods who are so desparately in physical need. Isn't this the same tactic used of the Christian missionaries that go into the countries of the hungry and helpless to gather converts? So what else is new?

Well as far as YHWH's name is concerned, I believe it is YHWH's Spirit that will teach and convict, since as I have stated before, many who think they know the name, may only know the phonetics. You speak of the hebrew word "shem," meaning "Name." Wouldn't you prefer to be called "DeAnna" instead of "Name." All the more so, don't you think YHWH loves His great name, and likes to be addressed by it?

Blessings,

Riyah

posted 12-08-2001 12:24 PM         

Thank you for your response. All input is beneficial to me good and bad, positive and negative. I take it all in and process it thoroughly. What comes out makes me better or worse. I think you have succeeded in improving my more positive attitude toward these things. May Yahweh continue to bless you.

DeAnna,

Riyah's last point is what matters most about this issue. It does matter to Yahweh what we call HIM. Its the third commandment you know {Exodus 20:7}. Do you believe in the 10 commandments? I hope you do. They are very, very simple and we are to follow them to the letter...no doubt. The commandments are the foundation of all truth. They express to us who Yahweh is. They are called HIS testiment. If we do not follow them then we cannot build on truth because they are the foundation of truth. Without a foundation you cannot build a house...right?

In following the commandments we are told that if we break one we break all. Well, if one were to break the 3 rd commandment and refer to Yahweh as God or Jehovah then they are breaking all and to HIM they are as guilty as a liar or murderer for that matter. Its that simple.

Even moreso don't you think its insulting to HIM if we can't even get HIS name right. I think so and I also think its why the issue of HIS name was addressed in the 3rd commandment as apposed to the 8th or 10th for that matter. This is so simple. We try to complicate it by saying things like 'its only phonetics'. Don't you know that words are spirit containers. They have the ability to break down and build up. Phonetics is one of the more powerful subjects in this world. You can conjure up evil from certain utterances as well as repair evil with good. I think we should make sure when we are trying to utter the name of the almighty Father we are not doing anything else but that. Don't you.

What you need to study is why people refer to the creator as God or whatever else they "TRY" to call HIM. That's the issue here. The fact is that the deceiver - satan - has brain washed the whole world.

Even me, a creation, when some one calls me the wrong name I promptly correct them. I love my name, as Yahweh does HIS, and I don't want anyone changing it either mistakedly or purposely.

Anyway, you seem yourself to have come to the realization of the importance of the name Yahweh. I hope you also encourage others to do the same. That is a part of our duty. God and Jehovah are not the creator Yahweh!

May Yahweh contionue to bless us all in our walk in the light of HIS truth, in the name of HIS son Yahushua Messiah.

the Mesobaite {1Chronicles 11:47}
...and I shall be mighty for HIM...

posted 12-08-2001 02:34 PM            

"Thank you for your response. All input is beneficial to me good and bad, positive and negative. I take it all in and process it thoroughly. What comes out makes me better or worse. I think you have succeeded in improving my more positive attitude toward these things. May Yahweh continue to bless you."

You are welcome Mesobaite, and may YHWH continue to bless you also.

Riyah

posted 12-09-2001 10:13 AM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by hiltop:
IDMR and the Sacred Names Movement are based on Biblical errors and false doctrines. The Gospel is simple and powerful, it is not complicated. These are some important links. There is nothing wrong with using Yahweh or YAHSHUA in addressing the Lord, but neither is saying Jesus. The God of the Bible has not changed, and will greatly bring down the man's arrogance of puffed-up, pseudo-knowledge about Him.
Prov. 15:25, Prov. 16:5, Prov 6:17, Prov. 21:4, Prov. 21:24, Prov. 16:18, 1Tim 3:6, Luke 1:51, 1Tim 6:4,

James 4:6 => "But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: "God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble."

Gnosticism is an old heresy with demonic origins, and much on the beliefs made by IDMR and the Sacred Name movement are based on superstitions, unsubstantiated conjecture, fallacy, and truism, not on objective biblical truth.

Here are the links of research that proof my points:

http://home.regent.edu/hilthar/Ministry/Proof%20IDMR%20is%20a%20Cult%20and%20Dangero us.htm

http://www.crosswinds.net/~thename/JesusZeus.htm

I love people and I desire to see them in heaven. Thank you for your time.

In Christ Jesus,

Raphael M.

---