posted 12-12-2001 01:44 PM            

Isaiah chapter 1 talks about being willing and obedient. So many are not willing little alone obedient. Righteousness does come form Yahueh. Many claim and recieve the baptism of the Holy Spirit but are not willing to walk in obedience to what the Holy Spirit writes on their hearts and in their minds. Truely righteous people are willing to be obedient. Yahushua the Messiah is the fulfillment of the animal sacrificial system. We do not need to sacrifice animals to observe any part of the Torah today that has to do with blood letting. My problem with IDMR and most Christian churches is that they go far beyond this in telling us we no longer need to do these things written in the Law of Yahueh given through Moshe, re-enforced by the teachings of the Prophets and Yahushua the Messiah as well as the Nazir/Apostles. Let us do what Yahushua and the Apostles never specifically spelled out as being done away with and let us add no more.

In the name of our Adonai Yahushua the Messiah,

posted 12-12-2001 03:03 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by david_ben_ yacob:
My problem with IDMR and most Christian churches is that they go far beyond this in telling us we no longer need to do these things written in the Law of Yahueh given through Moshe, re-enforced by the teachings of the Prophets and Yahushua the Messiah as well as the Nazir/Apostles. Let us do what Yahushua and the Apostles never specifically spelled out as being done away with and let us add no more.

---

Indeed David you are saying what I've been telling people. That is, one must acknowledge that the law exists and strive to live it (by and through the Spirit and not of our own selves).

When Christian or other groups say "the law was done away with" or words to that effect, they have admitted their "LAWLESSNESS". Therein lies the "Mystery of Iniquity" or better translated "Secret of Lawlessness".

To acknowledge the law and try to live it, yet not be successful in keeping it is NOT living in lawlessness. It is when you say that you haven't a law to keep that you are living in lawlessness, and that is not a good state to be in according to the Scriptures (See II Thess 2), but thank YHWH He does still call on them as He did me! It took me many years to hear the calling but He just kept at it until I finally listened!!

Shalom in Yahshua!

posted 12-12-2001 07:16 PM            

I never have been able to fully understand why people who claim to love Yahweh (regardless of the name they use) have so much trouble yielding themselves to His standards of righteousness. I discuss these things with people of many different denominations on several boards, and there has been no end to the number of excuses I hear for not keeping the law. I think one of the funniest is when people basically say, "since we cannot keep the law perfectly, we won't bother to keep it all".

DeAnna mentioned several points that I've heard before, all of which can be propped up by a few isolated sentences in Scripture, and all of which are completely false. The statement, for instance, that since the New Covenant is revealed in Scripture as not being like the Covenant made at Sinai, that means the law is no longer physical, but spiritual. Indeed, the Covenant is not at all the same. But, dear DeAnna, the Covenant is not the law of Yahweh. A covenant is an agreement, or contract between two parties. It reveals who is bound by the covenant, what each party is expected to do, the benefits for performing those obligations, and the penalties for not performing them.

Under the Covenant made at Sinai, Israel promised to keep Yahweh's Torah, walk in His ways, and keep His statutes and judgments. Yahweh agreed to be their Elohiym, and to bless them with long life, land, prosperity and safety. Israel, however, broke this covenant, and thus we have seen the "death of our husband" (the first covenant), so that we are made free to "marry another" (enter into another covenant).

But Yahweh declared that under this New Covenant, He would write His Torah in the hearts of His people. Same Torah, same Elohiym doing the writing, different surface being written on. If we are, in fact, among Yahweh's people, then His Torah is written on our hearts and our spirits. It has become our very nature to live as He wishes, following His standard. If we love Him, we will keep His commandments, and His commandments are not grievous. They are not a burden to us, or something to be shunned. They are a source of joy to our spirits.

I've also frequently heard the suggestion that since the sacrifices have obviously been done away with, the rest of the law has as well. Nothing could be further from the truth. Neither the sacrifices nor the regulations of the priesthood have ever been a part of Yahweh's standard of righteousness. They were regulations for the "mediation of the first covenant", and that is all. But we have a new priesthood, and a new and better sacrifice. A change in that priesthood made a change in those priestly laws necessary. A New Covenant has new regulations for the mediation (working/ministry) of that covenant. We now have the statutes for baptism and the Master's supper, for example. But the laws of Yahweh - His standard of what is right and what is wrong - will never change, for He is the same yesterday, today and forever.

So yes, there are many things under the First Covenant that are no longer necessary - such as the sacrifices as part of the observance of the Feast Days. But Scripture in it's entirety is clear that Yahweh expects His people to abide by His law. Are we perfect in keeping His law? Certainly not, but when we fail, we can come boldly before the throne of grace and receive mercy. That, my friends, IS the New Covenant in Yahshua's blood. Through faith in Yahshua's atoning sacrifice, we agree to keep Yahweh's Torah - in spirit and in body, to walk in His ways, and to keep the statutes and judgments of the New Covenant, as revealed by Yahshua and His apostles. Yahweh agrees to not only be our Elohiym, but our Father in heaven, and to forgive our trespasses when we come before Him through His only begotten Son. If we keep this covenant, the reward is adoption, and everlasting life in His Kingdom. If we break this covenant (or never enter into it), the penalty is everlasting condemnation.

posted 12-13-2001 02:29 AM            

I realize there are many good hearted people that mean to say; "try to keep the Law of Moses"... But to say; "KEEP Torah", if they themselves do NOT keep "every letter of torah", then how dare they tell another too!

Shalom again DeAnna,

I noticed this comment when you wrote it, but did not have the time to respond at the time.

Many who speak about not being able to "keep" all the Torah do not understand that the PRACTICE of the Torah in its entirety at this particular time (living in the land of the enemy), cannot be adequately accomplished-- that the Torah is not invalid, or done away with, but merely temporarily in abeyance until the time of the Millenium, when it can again be fully practiced under the rulership of Yahushua, Messiah.

Does this mean that we should throw up our hands and forget Torah, and wallow in lawlessness? In the interim, we are responsible for performing what we are physically and mentally able to perform.

YHWH is certainly aware of the difficulties of the times in which His people must live until Yahushua's return. After all, it is mankind's disobedience that has placed it in the predicament of living in a lawless society, and thereby in awkwardness and the inability to embrace the Torah as it should. It is absolute nonsense to use that very disobedience as an excuse to continue in lawlessness. Actually more than nonsence; it is satanically inspired !

May YHWH continue to open our spiritual eyes to His Truth.

Blessings,

Riyah

posted 12-13-2001 12:46 PM            

Job 4:17 Shall mortal man be more just than YAH? shall a man be more pure than his maker?

Psalm 95:6 O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before Yah our maker.

Bow down what? our body? Is that really what Yah wants? is our "fleshly bodies" > bowing down? Or kneeling?

I tell you true, When one truly "bows down" or "kneels" before the Father, all that they are, and all they ever will be, is put,and is, completely in His Hands.

Proverbs 14:31 He that oppresseth the poor reproacheth his Maker: but he that honoureth him hath mercy on the poor.

Poor in what? Money? Does Yah call "money" riches? treasures? No... Poor in Spirit. Poor in strength, faith, hope, laughter, rest, peace, Word. The lack of THESE things makes us poor!

And "why" does one have a lack of them? Why are we poor?
Because we haven't "Turned to the Father, and "bowed", and said, all that I am, and all that I shall be is in thine hands O' Yah... I pray thee for mercy. I depend on thy mercy, Grant me thy law graciously. Write thy laws upon my heart.

Then, Will Yah begin to "create" this man "new". And his "re birth" does begin.

Proverbs 17:5 Whoso mocketh the poor reproacheth his Maker: and he that is glad at calamities shall not be unpunished.

Proverbs 22:2 The rich and poor meet together: Yah is the maker of them all.

Isaiah 22:11 Ye made also a ditch between the two walls for the water of the old pool: but ye have not looked unto the maker thereof, neither had respect unto him that fashioned it long ago.

I beleive these two walls are the old and new testements. And we "dig ourself a ditch" between them. For the "water" or the "Word" of the "old pool"(old. cov.)BUT... YE have NOT > LOOKED unto the MAKER thereof, neither had respect unto HIM that "fashioned it long ago".

One cannot "fulfill the Law of Yah"! It doesn't mean we do not want to... nor should not want too... it means ONLY YAH CAN. And HE WILL "In us", if we give Him ourselves entirely. ACKNOWLEDGE that we are "but dust". And that it is HIS hand that does fashion us. Ask Him for a "new heart" and we will get a
new heart! Only HE can "do it".

But we "lead" people to the law! We say to them do that which YOU cannot do! But live your life "trying" to do it! NO! Live your life asking YAH to do it, and TRUSTING YAH > to do it. We must 'TURN TO THE FATHER" Not Turn to the "law". Turn to the Law, and you make a covenant with death. Turn to the Father, and HE will write HIS Law Upon Your Heart, and now you have a
covenant with LIFE, because the Father IS Life.

People get so upset with me and say; "DeAnna, Yah is not going to tell us to do something that we cannot do"!
I tell you true, Yah will not tell you to "do" anything that HE is not Willing to Give You. And IF People WERE DOING WHAT YAH TELLS THEM TO DO... such as; >

Isaiah 45:11 Thus saith YAH, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker(Israels maker), Ask me of things to come concerning my SONS, and concerning the WORK OF MY HANDS command ye me.

Isaiah 43:26 Put me in remembrance: let us plead together: declare thou, that thou mayest be justified.

Zechariah 1:3 Therefore say thou unto them, Thus saith YAH of hosts; Turn ye unto me, saith YAH of hosts, and I will turn unto you, saith YAH of hosts.

Understand, it is our "religous leaders" that "rule over us".

Isaiah 52:5 Now therefore, what have I here, saith Yah, that my people is taken away for nought? they that "rule over them" make them to howl, saith YAH; and my name(Power/Authority) continually every day is blasphemed.(disrespected)

Isaiah 17:7 At that day shall a man look to his Maker, and his eyes shall have respect to the Holy One of Israel.

Look, the "Law of Moses" was to "baptise us unto death" or "blood" or "guilt" or "iniquity". For we first must "know" we are guilty before we may seek forgiveness and "change". Moses means; "To draw". And that is EXACTLY
what the "law" does... is it "draws us". And we cry and offer up lamentation for the condemnation we feel. We "drown in our own blood" so to speak. This is the FIRST "baptism".

1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

And we "all" must receive of this baptism. And we all have. Then we are lead to the baptism of John. For after one "feels" the condemnation, the one is "lead' to repent.
After THIS baptism, comes the "baptism" in the Holy Spirit.
or "Spirit of Truth". So...

If one is just now getting the "spirit of truth" AFTER Johns baptism (repentance/confession of sins)... then it is safe to say, up to this point, they did NOT have the "Truth". or any understanding of it.
If so... why would one need the spirit of truth?

And what is that truth? Yahshua(Yahs salvation) says; "I am the way, the light, and the truth".
He also says; "IT is not I that "doeth the works", it is the FATHER IN ME, HE DOETH THE WORKS."

But people just want to IGNORE that , and tell eachother that 'THEY' best do it anyway.... And IF "they" make the right choices, then Yah will have mercy on them. Well, what does one that makes the right choices need mercy for?
I'll tell ya another thing people Ignore... is YAHs Word that HE shall "perform His will". HE shall make us white as snow. HE shall "cleanse us", HE shall CAUSE us to WALK UPRIGHT. HE Shall "straighted the crooked paths".
HE shall bring it to pass. HE stretched forth the heavens and the earth, and HE formeth the spirit in a man! But we just IGNORE all of THESE words.

Yahshua said we must LIVE by EVERY Word out of the mouth of Yah.
YES, you want to come out of Adultery. YES, you want to NOT be a thief. YES you want an honest heart. YES, you want to "keep the feasts". YES you want Yahs laws written on your heart. YES you want to be faithful to YAH. Yes, to all of these things... BUT... one CANNOT "do" any of it. Until one TRUSTS Yah to
"create it" > IN THEM.
And putting the "keeping of the Law" in someones "own" hand, or power, or authority is NOT "leading them to the Father"... it is "leading them to THEMSELVES".

But Yahshua said HE was here to "lead us to the Father". And THAT is exactly what 'YAHSHUA IS, AND DOES'.
>> Yah is salvation. Yahs salvation. Salvation is Yahs. < however you want to put it.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Do you really think the above scripture is calling out a phonetic sound?

"Name" means; POWER/ AUTHORITY. Does no one see this?

Acts 4:7 And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, By what POWER, OR by what NAME, have ye done this?

when Yahshua said; "Father I have MANIFESTED THY NAME Unto them."
Yahshua was saying; I have manifested thy POWER/ AUTHORITY unto them.

Not the "power or the authority" of the Fathers Law" but the power authority of the FATHER. The "creator", the "maker" of the Law and the "enforcer" of it!

One can "call on a phonetic sound" all they like, but if they are not thinking that they speak to the ONE AND ONLY AUTHORITY OF ALL THAT EXISTS... they have NOT "called" on HIS NAME (power/authority), and CANNOT be saved!

No matter how hard they try to keep the law in the flesh.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the PROPHETS: I am NOT come to DESTROY, but to FULFILL.

I feel like thats what I'm saying... I've not come to "destroy the "law". OR the Prophets... but to "fulfill"... or show forth that YAHSHUA in "us" fulfills them.
Not us, but HIM. For NOTHING is "made" that isn't made BY HIM. For ALL things proceed forth From YAH. It is HIS Word that "brings all things about".
If Yah says it will be, IT WILL BE. if He says it wont'. IT WON'T. But what Yah DOES show us, is that "we" can change his mind toward us by TALKING TO HIM. "declaring ourselves unto him". "turning to HIM and HIS Authority and Power. NOT our own! We DON'T HAVE ANY. And if you truly believe you do, you havn't died... but "we die daily"... so it doesn't mean you "aren't".

"I" die daily. It is a constant battle not to "take things into my own hand". but I just say, over and over; "Yah is my shepherd, I shall not want".

Or I sing His Prayer; Now "look" at these WORDS. really LOOK at what they are saying;

Our Father, who art in heaven. (Spirit)
Hallowed (separate) be thy Name (Power/ authority)
THY KINGDOM COME (If it is HIS kingdom, HE "rules". HE IS law)
THY WILL (Force, desire, heart) BE DONE!
"IN" Earth (US), as it is in Heaven (SPIRIT).
Give us this day, our daily bread (WORD/Law/ understanding)
And forgive us for our tresspasses

(Every time we forget that it is YOU that is in control here; for that is the only reason we would be mad at another.)

AS WE "Forgive Others"! (So we ASK HIM to "forgive us" as we "forgive"!)Lead us NOT into Temptation.

(Well, then this must mean He CAN, if we are asking him not to!)

But DELIVER US from evil.

(Not, I'll overcome, and you give me life. no! Only HE is our deliverer! we are not "our" deliverer. We CANNOT "deliver ourselves from sin! And to teach one that they can, is causing them to make a covenant, a "deal" with death!)

for THINE > IS > The Kingdom (It all belongs to thee)
And the POWER (The force that brings all things into being)
AND THE GLORY (The RIGHTEOUSNESS)Forever and ever. So be it.

Please pray about it. don't be stubborn and insist we can do things on our own. We can't! Anyone deep down surely knows this. But HE can, and HE will if we can just get eachother to talk to him about the "making of us".

Isaiah 45:11 Thus saith Yah, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.

This really is the "key of David". David turned his whole heart, his whole existance, all of his "over coming" over to Yah. Yah was his covering, his sheild, his strength. He never claimed any of his own. David Knew Yah was his maker.
And David too went through the affliction, or the cup of fury. And David would litterally cry, and beg for mercy and say; "O' Yah, forsake not the works of thine own hands".

"He who has the key of David, openeth and no man shutteth.
And shutteth and no man openeth."

For no one, NO ONE can tell you, you do not have a maker!
This is a door that no man can shut.

No one can tell you that Yah is not an answerer of prayers.

No one can tell you that in order to have salvation it REQUIRES Yah to pour out HIS righteousness upon us.

These are doors that no man can shut.

When one turns to Yah their MAKER and trusts Him to GRANT them a "new heart"... Yah starts SHUTTING DOORS that NO MAN CAN OPEN.

To tell people, that deep down knows they are not righteous, to "keep" a righteous thing, by the power of their own hand, or own choices or own self dicipline... locks them in a box, or puts them in prison, or digs them a pit.

But to tell people to TURN TO YAH and ASK that HE write His laws on their heart, and SHOW them in scripture WHY they can BELEIVE that HE is WILLING to DO THESE THINGS.. to create in them a new heart. etc.
THIS leads people to the FATHER. And the Father gives the "increase".The FATHER will make NO ONE ashamed that "turns to Him".

Yahshua does not say; "come unto the law of Moses, and I will give you rest unto your souls." I'm sorry, but he doesn't!
He says "come unto ME... and learn of ME..." not learn of you, what you can do and not do, learn of ME and what I CAN DO! Why could he?
Because He knew the Father was "in HIM" doing the "work". Or "working a work in him". and I tell you true, the same is true to anyone and everyone that believes in the works of HIS hands.

Zechariah 4:6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, THIS is the word of YAH unto Zerubbabel(sown in babylon # 2216), saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith YAH of hosts.

Zerubbabel MEANS "sown in babylon". "Babylon" means; "confusion". THIS is The WORD that is "sown in confusion".

"Not by might" (strength)"Nor by power" , but by MY SPIRIT, saith Yah.

We are the "earth" that the "word" is sown in. We are in "darkness" and dwell in "confusion". And "confusion" is the "cup of fury". ALL must drink of the "cup of babylon". But "The Word" > sown < into us IS;

"Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit saith Yah of hosts".

And "who ever was able to RECEIVE this Word, to them gave He the POWER to BECOME SONS of Yah". (John1

"Ask me of my SONS, the works of MY HANDS command ye me"!

it is US that "kills the prophets". We preach the law, we preach the cross, but the prophets that shows forth the true "guts" of the matter... we leave off.

These are not just a "Few" isolated scriptures. And yet, I could quote so many, many more, showing forth just who it is that is in control here. And who it is we must "worship" or "bow down our entire selves too". And it's not us.
We don't die to us, or the desires of our heart. Yah GIVES US THE DESIRES OF OUR HEART. And He "creates us" according TO the desires of our heart. If your asking Him for money, He is giving you money. If you are asking Him for a pure heart, He is giving you a pure heart.

We are to learn of Him. His law is learning of Him. so are ALL the stories from beginning to end... telling us something about Him. What He likes, what He doesn't... If He is good, and kind or mean and hateful. The more we "learn of Him"... the more the Spirit gives us "utterance" and we better know what to "ask
for". This is our shepherd, our guide. Leading us to the Father.

What we must "overcome" is the belief system that we are in control.This is why we "die daily". People ask Yah for rent, but do not know to ask to be created a new creature.
This is the evil, we must turn from. This is the evil way. to believe you are your own maker. And accuse others that they are too, and they best do a better job. This is why the "accuser" was 'cast down' who "accuseth the angels before their El, day and night."

No one can tell me that if a soul is looking to their creator, and in their heart beleive in HIS authority, and power to create them a new... that if they are not pronouncing a phonetic sound correctly, that they are not being HEARD, and LOVED, and CARED FOR every BIT as much as another. I know Yah too well,
to go back to that lie ever again. Yah is JUST, and Perfect.
And He is willing to make us perfect, if we just turn to Him and ask Him and BELEIVE that He is GOOD, AND MERCIFUL, NOT up above the moon sun and stars with His finger pointing down at you. That is NOT YAHSHUA.
Yahshua said; "I do NOT accuse you to the Father".
But Satan does! (rev. 12) How? by using the carnal law, against the carnal flesh.
Well, the carnal flesh may ONLY be "quickened" by YAH!

And if YAH Quickens someone, it is no longer THEM that did it, but YAH THAT DID IT.

Therefore no man can boast, and no man can point the finger.

This is what Yahshua said to the teachers of the law, that accused his diciples and him of breaking the law of the Sabbath. >

Matthew 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

One can keep the physical "Sabbath" and not work, buy, sell, or light a fire in their habitation and ONLY have an "Holy convocation" unto Yah. By assemblying togeather and reading the bible.
BUT >

If one does not come into the understanding that "they" cannot "work their way unto YAHS REST, nor "buy their way, nor sell their way", not even PURGE THEIR WAY... unto Salvation which IS the 'rest" that Yahshua speaks of when He says; "come unto me all ye who are heavy laiden with burden" these are
those that have been baptised in blood/law/moses/red sea/ guilt/ death... and ARE "heavy laiden and burdened". Yahshua says; (( I )) will give you REST unto your SOULS. > "learn of ME".

First thing we LEARN OF HIM, is that He is MEEK AND LOWLY In heart. and HIS BURDEN is "light". Yah is NOT the "accuser". He "uses" the accuser to bring you unto Him, but He is not "accusing you" in the end. He is just making a point. WE NEED HIM. IT'S HIM, or NOTHING. HIS Power/authority/name/will or NOTHING. nor yours, mine, there is NO OTHER.

I realize this is real long, i'm sorry. I know, I do go on and on...

It's just that since I have come to understand what the prophets have been saying all along, well.. it just opened up this whole new world, this whole new life to me... I know with all of my heart, that Yah gave me understanding, because I asked for understanding, not because I'm smart, or good, or wonderful
or deserved... goodness knows! but because I asked. And everysince I became a mom a "parent", and to know the continous love though my son drives me nuts, but I don't think I could love something that drove me crazy so much until I became a parent.

I could not stop stealing for nothing. I cried, I tried, I begged, I pleaded, I was so sorry... but when I ASKED Yah to "take my thieving hand away", and continously "worked my faith" toward His Willingness.. thought it took SEVEN YEARS... I tell you true, it came to pass. and THAT was Seven years ago!
I "see" now that Yah just "answered" my prayers! "I didn't do it", Yah did it. But he first showed me that I COULDN'T and made me DEPEND ON HIM to "do it"... grant it, establish it, bring it about... create it. and Then, it came to pass.
Not because of "Me", but because I beleived that He was a "good" and "Kind' and wonderful creator, and If I could give good gifts to my son, THOUGH I AM EVIL... How much MORE is HE willing to give GOOD GIFTS to those that ASK HIM.

Okay... i'm done. (smile)

May Yah truly bless you, truly, truly bless you and Reveal Himself to you. (not that He isn't, or hasn't, but I just desire it for you, I desire it for all.)

posted 12-13-2001 02:57 PM            

I'm sorry, but much of this simply is not true. Yahshua came and performed the law in the flesh, to show us that the law CAN be performed in the flesh. Not man's regulations or opinions of the law, but Yahweh's intent of the law. The first covenant was not a covenant with death. In fact, it was ordained to be life. Yahweh's promise for those who kept His law was life. It was sin - transgressing that law - which brought death.

-----People get so upset with me and say; "DeAnna, Yah is not
going to tell us to do something that we cannot do"! -----

Indeed, He will not, and those who say it is not possible to keep His law in the flesh are those who do not wish to keep His law in the flesh.

-----Look, the "Law of Moses" was to "baptise us unto death"
or "blood" or "guilt" or "iniquity". For we first must "know" we
are guilty before we may seek forgiveness and "change". Moses
means; "To draw". And that is EXACTLY what the "law" does... is
it "draws us". And we cry and offer up lamentation for the
condemnation we feel. We "drown in our own blood" so to speak.
This is the FIRST "baptism". -----

No, the "Law of Moses" was to mediate the first covenant and enable the Israelites to atone for their trespasses of Yahweh's law. Yahweh's commandments are there to show us what sin is. If we do something that one of those commandments tells us not to do, we have sinned. The law is only relevent to those who break it. Those who live the law by their very nature (as a result of the law being written on their hearts) have no need of the law. One who does no murder has no need to be told not to murder. One who never profanes the Sabbath needs not to be told not to profane the Sabbath.

-----After THIS baptism, comes the "baptism" in the Holy Spirit.
or "Spirit of Truth". So...

If one is just now getting the "spirit of truth" AFTER Johns
baptism (repentance/confession of sins)... then it is safe to
say, up to this point, they did NOT have the "Truth". or any
understanding of it.

If so... why would one need the spirit of truth? -----

The only place Scripture refers to the Holy Spirit as the Spirit of Truth is in the Gospel of John. This is a promise that Yahshua made to us - that He would send the Comforter, the Spirit of Truth. But there is a condition on this promise that you seem to be neglecting altogether:

John 14:15) If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16) And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17) [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

-----He also says; "IT is not I that "doeth the works", it is
the FATHER IN ME, HE DOETH THE WORKS."

But people just want to IGNORE that , and tell eachother
that 'THEY' best do it anyway.... And IF "they" make the right
choices, then Yah will have mercy on them. Well, what does one
that makes the right choices need mercy for?-----

Actually, what seems to be being ignored here is the repeated instruction for US to keep the commandments of Yahweh. We are not told to allow Yahweh to keep the commandments for us, or to ask Him to keep them for us, or in us. IF we love Him, we willo keep His commandments. IF we love Him, His commandments will NOT be grievous for us, they will NOT be a burden or something difficult to do.

-----I'll tell ya another thing people Ignore... is YAHs Word
that HE shall "perform His will". HE shall make us white as
snow. HE shall "cleanse us", HE shall CAUSE us to WALK UPRIGHT.
HE Shall "straighted the crooked paths".

HE shall bring it to pass. HE stretched forth the heavens and
the earth, and HE formeth the spirit in a man! But we just
IGNORE all of THESE words. -----

It seems that you are ignoring the "cause us to walk upright" part. He does not walk upright for us or in us, He causes US to walk upright. That means that WE do it, through His strength and His righteousness. No one ever needs to question whether or not Yahweh will walk uprightly. We all know He can do it, don't we? The question is, do we love Him enough to do it?

-----"Name" means; POWER/ AUTHORITY. Does no one see this? -----

Yes, I'm fairly certain most of us here do see this. But this has nothing to do with whether or not Yahweh expects us to keep His law through faith in His Son, by the power of His Name.

-----One can "call on a phonetic sound" all they like, but if
they are not thinking that they speak to the ONE AND ONLY
AUTHORITY OF ALL THAT EXISTS... they have NOT "called" on HIS
NAME (power/authority), and CANNOT be saved! -----

Think for a moment what it means for Yahweh to be the one and only authority of all that exists. How does one acknowledge His authority? Do we do this by "thinking" He is the only authority, or by "realizing" it? No, we acknowledge Him as the only authority IF we do what He has commanded. If we refuse to do as He has spoken, then we are rejecting His authority. If a person "realizes" He is the authority, and expects Him to keep His commandments in them, yet they are not willing to subject themselves to His authority, and do as He commands themselves, then they do not know Him, and certainly do not love Him.

-----Or I sing His Prayer; Now "look" at these WORDS. really
LOOK at what they are saying;
Our Father, who art in heaven. (Spirit)
Hallowed (separate) be thy Name (Power/ authority)
THY KINGDOM COME (If it is HIS kingdom, HE "rules". HE IS law)
THY WILL (Force, desire, heart) BE DONE!
"IN" Earth (US), as it is in Heaven (SPIRIT).
Give us this day, our daily bread (WORD/Law/ understanding)
And forgive us for our tresspasses
(Every time we forget that it is YOU that is in control here; for that is the only reason we would be mad at another.)
AS WE "Forgive Others"! (So we ASK HIM to "forgive us" as we "forgive"!)Lead us NOT into Temptation.
(Well, then this must mean He CAN, if we are asking him not to!)
But DELIVER US from evil.
(Not, I'll overcome, and you give me life. no! Only HE is our deliverer! we are not "our" deliverer. We CANNOT "deliver ourselves from sin! And to teach one that they can, is causing them to make a covenant, a "deal" with death!)
for THINE > IS > The Kingdom (It all belongs to thee)
And the POWER (The force that brings all things into being)
AND THE GLORY (The RIGHTEOUSNESS)Forever and ever. So be it. ----

This is an inaccurate translation of Yahshua's words, and therefore an inaccurate exegesis. Here is a more accurate translation:

Our Father, who is in Heaven,
May your name be Hallowed (separated as holy);
May your Kingdom come;
May your will be done in earth as it is in heaven.
Give us each day our daily bread,
And forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those
who trespass against us.
Lead us out of temptation, and deliver us from the Evil One,
For the Kingdom, and the Power, and the Glory belong to you,
For ever and ever. So let it be.

-----To tell people, that deep down knows they are not
righteous, to "keep" a righteous thing, by the power of their
own hand, or own choices or own self dicipline... locks them in
a box, or puts them in prison, or digs them a pit.

But to tell people to TURN TO YAH and ASK that HE write His laws
on their heart, and SHOW them in scripture WHY they can BELEIVE
that HE is WILLING to DO THESE THINGS.. to create in them a new
heart. etc.-----

And the result of Yahweh giving us a new heart, and writing His law on our new heart, is that we perform/fulfill/keep His law as a matter of course. When we have truly entered into the New Covenant, keeping Yahweh's law is no more foreign to us than eating our favorite food, or drinking a cool glass of water on a hot day. The law must be kept through faith - that's complete trust in the righteousness, power and authority of Yahweh - rather than by our own will in an effort to "be righteous". But the fact remains that the law must be kept. This is the message of Romans 9:30-33. The "righteousness of the law" cannot be attained through our own works, only through faith. That is because faith is the very beginning - the first step - in righteousness. Israel did not attain the "righteousness of the law" because they did not seek it through faith. Their faith was in their own ability to keep the law, rather than in the one who gave the law.

This is actually a very simple principle, but for some reason people seem to have trouble comprehending it. With Abraham as the example, we are told that it is faith that is counted as righteousness. Not just any faith, of course, but faith in Yahweh as Creator of all things. Faith means complete, unquestioning trust. Abraham believed (unquestioning trust) that what Yahweh had promised, He was able to perform. So even though Abraham had only one son, he knew that since Yahweh had promised him descendants as the sands of the sea, this would somehow be accomplished even if he did sacrifice his only son. It is that faith - the complete, unquestioning, unshakeable trust - that is counted as righteousness.

So what happens if we have this faith in Yahweh? We trust, and believe, and know in our hearts and minds and spirits that everything Yahweh has said is truth - complete truth. We do not doubt Him, we do not question Him. If we have this trust, we look at a commandment from Yahweh as complete truth. So if Yahweh says to do no murder, why would we want to do a murder? We do not turn around and say "Why shouldn't I murder that guy?" We know that the "why?" is already answered - because Yahweh said it. That level of faith results in a true desire - almost a compulsion - to keep Yahweh's law. Not because it is "righteous", not because we're "supposed to", but simply because Yahweh said it.

If we truly come to know Yahweh, we will love Him, we cannot help or prevent that. If we actually know and love Him, the result is that true faith in Him. That first step in righteousness - having faith in Him - leads to "walking uprightly". Anyone who does not see the validity of Yahweh's commands for their flesh, as well as their spirits, simply does not know Him - yet.

-----These are not just a "Few" isolated scriptures. And yet, I could quote so many, many more, showing forth just who it is that is in control here. And who it is we must "worship" or "bow down our entire selves too". And it's not us.-----

Well, yes, they are a few isolated Scriptures, pulled out and used to give an impression that Scripture as a whole does not give. What does it mean to "bow down" to Yahweh? It does not mean to just bow, as though we were addressing royalty. It means to subject ourselves to Him and acknowledge Him as our Creator, our Master, our Elohiym. If we take your instruction, and "bow down our entire selves" to Yahweh, this MUST include the flesh. If we do not subject our flesh to Him, then there is a part of ourselves that we are keeping back and refusing to allow Him control over.

The instruction to keep our bodies free from sin is very Scriptural:

Romans 6:19) I speak after the manner of men because of the
infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members
servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so
now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

Romans 12:1) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies
of YHWH, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy,
acceptable unto YHWH, [which is] your reasonable service.
2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by
the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that
good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of YHWH.

Romans 13:14) But put ye on the Master, Yahshua haMoshiach, and
make not provision for the flesh, to [fulfil] the lusts
[thereof].

1 Corinthians 9:26) I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so
fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27) But I keep under
my body, and bring [it] into subjection: lest that by any means,
when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

2 Corinthians 7:1) Having therefore these promises, dearly
beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the
flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the reverence of YHWH.

I'm sorry this one got so long, but there was a lot to address.

posted 12-13-2001 07:15 PM            

Yah be with you.

I think what I am trying to say is being misunderstood.
You say > "It is absolute nonsense to use that very disobedience as an excuse to continue in lawlessness. Actually more than nonsence; it is satanically inspired !" <<

I am not using "disobediance" as an excuse NOT to obey Torah... I am trying to show forth the fact that ONLY Yah can "cause" you to keep Torah. YOU cannot "cause you to keep Torah" YOU or anyone else cannot "cause" me to keep Torah. Only Yah can. And He SAYS "He Will". And I testify that HE DOES!

Male says that Yahshua came to "show us WE could keep them"... is that what you believe RiYah? Is that why He came?
To say; "Look, I can keep them... why not you?"

Futher more... people automatically 'think' because one doesn't "preach" The Law of Moses, that they are "lawless".
And YET:

Zechariah 7:9 Thus speaketh YAH of hosts, saying, Execute true judgment, and shew mercy and compassions every man to his brother:10 And oppress not the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor; and let none of you magine evil against his brother in your heart.11 But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear.
12 Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should >> "HEAR THE LAW", and the words which the Yah of hosts hath sent in HIS spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from the YAH of hosts.

Now if one preaches the above, and not preach the "Law of Moses", one says that they are "Lawless", But according to Yah it is the ONE THAT DO NOT DO THESE THINGS that are called "lawless". Understand?

I tell you true, I have heard more "evil imaginings" come out of peoples mouths here at this forum toward others to know that 'THOUGH' this is a 'law preaching site"... it is these people that are Lawless.

People act like; "Love eachother", forgive that ye may be forgiven, JUDGE NOT lest ye be judged, turn the cheek, etc. are "not laws". But they ARE LAWS, they are 'commandments'.

Yahshua said; if you love me you will keep my commands. Then on down he says This is my commandment; "Love eachother". This is "law"!This is not "lawlessness"!

Matthew 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

Now please go read Mat. 12 in context. The pharasees were not talking about an animal sacrifice, they were talking about Yahshua and the diciples breaking the "law of the sabbath". This being RIGHT AFTER Yahshua said; "come unto me... I will GIVE YOU REST unto your souls..."
after you fulfill the Law of Moses?

I would very much like to know what all of you think these scriptures mean. If you would please, give me understanding as to what perspective you have them in.

"I do not accuse you to the Father, there is one that accuseth you, Moses in whom you trust".

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Yahshua Messiah.

John 6:32 Then Yahshua said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you NOT that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

Isaiah 30:1 Woe to the rebellious children, saith Yah, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but NOT of MY SPIRIT, that they may add sin to sin:
2 That walk to go down into Egypt, and have not asked at my mouth; to strengthen themselves in the strength of Pharaoh, and to trust in the shadow of Egypt!

Last question;
How much "credit" should we "give unto our maker" for the Making of us?

posted 12-13-2001 08:50 PM            

People act like; "Love eachother", forgive that ye may be forgiven, JUDGE NOT lest ye be judged, turn the cheek, etc. are "not laws". But they ARE LAWS, they are 'commandments'.

Yahshua said; if you love me you will keep my commands. Then on down he says This is my commandment; "Love eachother". This is "law"!This is not "lawlessness"!

------Well DeAnna, I guess that is what happens when the persons teaching talk the talk, but do not appear to be walking the walk. Sadly, the price is often paid by the one supposedly being taught.

Although no one is perfect (a statement in which I put myself first), the feeling you have expressed here, is EXACTLY what I have been anticipating for the years that I have been writing to this forum. While there are loving brethren here, the fighting and the bickering by some that you so rightfully speak of is all too real, and I feel is taking its toll. I must painfully admit that I feel that there is a loss of credibility on this forum because of it. I have quoted I Cor. 13 over and over, on this site because of my personal suffering, and the anticipation of someone observing and expressing what you have expressed.

What can I say? When Peter told Yahushua that He was the Son of YHWH, Yahushua told him that flesh and blood had not revealed the awesome truth to Peter, but that His Father in heaven had. And so, DeAnna, with that Scripture in mind, I for one, believe what we are discussing here, (Torah observance) is a spiritually discerned matter, which must be given by the Quodesh Spirit. And that said, this is where I get off , unless YHWH tells me to get back on.

YHWH, in His love will give us all the knowledge we need, without our browbeating one another.

Blessings,

Riyah

posted 12-13-2001 11:36 PM            

May the Shalom of Yahweh be with us.... for without Yahweh's shalom and HIS love there is no life...

i have been following this thread from the beginning and i did want to post earlier however due to not having enough time was unable to do so.

i know DeAnna personally and i know that she loves Yahweh and Yahshua. i know that she has been a blessing to me and many others. i praise Yahweh and thank HIM for putting DeAnna in my life for Yahweh did use her in my life many times. Yes, there are some things that DeAnna and i don't see eye to eye but one thing we both know is that all credit for what is happenning in our lives go to Yahweh. DeAnna and i have a very similar past that was very dark and not pleasant to speak of, and i hope that DeAnna will not mind me mentioning this. Only because of Yahweh we are where we are.

Riyah, i too have been turned off by SN believers and if it was not for Yahweh's love towards me and because of the experience that HE gave me i would have been gone. But praise Yah, HE kept me close to HIM

What i would like to share with you tonight is the verses that are coming to me over and over again.... verses that give me hope for a better fellowship with brothers and sisters. The first one is from Isaiah 52;7 "How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him who brings good news, who proclaims peace who brings glad tidings of good things, who proclaims salvation, who says to Zion "Your El reigns". How many of us are bringing good news and are proclaiming salvation. Many of us are bringing judgments, where judgment belongs to Yahweh. Yes, when we see that our brother/sister is sinning we are to point them back to Yahweh with love and compassion. Why, when somone is pointing a finger at us we don't like it, but yet, we like pointing the finger at somebody else. Only because of Yahweh, i am here today. It is not me who carried myself or it is not my brother/sister who did it. it is Yahweh HIMSELF. i am still learning about the Torah. Yes, i was hurt by some Torah keepers but praise Yah HE set me free and today i can worship with them and praise our Heavenly Father. It is not only the sacred name movement that has disagreements. Many churches denominations fight and disagree. BUt how many come together to seek the face of the Father. We think we know it all..... yet, what Yahweh says is "if my people who are called by my name "Yahweh" will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land" 2Chronicles 7;14. Why do we strife to teach our brother and sisters? Why don't we leave it up to Yahweh to do it. HE IS very capable of doing it for i am a living example of that. When it came to the message of Sacred Names i was very oposed. After all i was saved by the name of Jesus. It was Jesus who i prayed to and who heard me when i was crying. Well, Yahweh, my Heavenly Father reminded me something very important. When we came to Canada i wanted to make sure that everybody calls me by my polish name not english name. i did not like my english translation and besides, i am dorota not dorothy. so, one night as i am praying, Yahweh comes to me and says.... "do you remember how you wanted everyone to know you by your real name? what about me?....." yes, at that time i knew that it does not matter what the whole world will think, what mattered was that i listen to HIM, ALONE. So, praise Yahweh that i heard HIS voice.

When it comes to Torah, no i do not keep the entire Torah, but i will not tell anyone not to either. i am in a process of learning and i would hope and pray that you, as my brothers and sisters can appreciate that.

Another verse that comes to my mind is Yahshua saying "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. But go and learn what this means: I desire mercy and not sacrifice. For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance" Matt 9;12-13. Today, when people see my family, me... they can not believe that i was evil.... well, HalleluYah, Prase HIM.... for HE IS WORTHY... What DeAnna is doing and saying is sharing the power of Yah, the only Power that can save. Yahshua again says "Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side" Luke 9;50. DeAnna is not against Yahweh or any of HIS children. DeAnna wants to bring glory to her Heavenly Father Yahweh who has brought her a long way, just like HE did with me.
i am praying for DeAnna to receive Yahweh's will in her life. i am praying for myself for the same and for all the children of Yah.... to do what pleases Yahweh.
And finally, Yahshua said "When the Son of Man comes in His glory and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him and He will separate them one from another as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on His right hand, Come, you blessed of My Fahter, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food: I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in I was naked and you clothed Me I was sick and you visited Me: I was in prison and you came to Me. Then the RIGHTEOUS will answer HIM saying, "Master, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in or naked and clothe You. Or when did we see you sick, or in prison, and come to You. And the King will answer and say to them "assuredly I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brether, you did it to Me" Matt. 25;31-40.... This verse especially is coming back to me lately a lot..... do i open my door to a stranger, do i feed and give a drink to those that need it.... now, one might see DeAnna or me as the one in need of drink or food... are you feeding us or are you refusing to feed us?.... pray about it....

Well, may Yahweh keep us as we all journey to the New Jerusalem, the city of joy.

posted 12-14-2001 12:31 AM            

I agree we need more true love to be manifested among those that use the name of Yahueh and Yahushua.The mushy kind of love that smiles in your face but doesn't really love you enough to call out your name in prayer is not real love. I think love for the heavenly Father is parimount, then after that to love your neighbor as yourself. If you are an employer and do not give your employees off the sabbath to rest and assemble with other believers you are not practicing real love. Your love will be measured by the LAW OF YAHUEH on judgement day ! It is the love of Yahueh to warn you of this and other consequences of not allowing or being willing to allow Yahueh to empower you to keep His commandments.

I wonder if He is as offended as I am when people call His Torah/instructions/law the "law of Moses" instead of the law of YAHUEH ! The law of Yahueh given through Moshe yes but not "the law of Moses" ! The Talmud is called the law of Moses by the Rabbis. It is confusing when we refer to the first five books of the Bible as the "law of Moses" instead of the law of Yahueh as is stated by Yahueh and recorded by Moses. Deanna as a brother in the faith your terminology is very offensive to me and I believe it is also to Yahueh.

Dorota how is your family doing ? Have you been to Eaton Rapids or Grand Ledge, MI lately ? How is everything in general going for the group in Toronto ? Has Robert and family kept in touch. You can write me privately at david_ben_yacob@hotmail.com

In the name of our Lord Yahushua the Messiah,

posted 12-14-2001 11:44 AM            

Shalom !
Lavi Chagyah

posted 12-14-2001 11:52 AM            

My we all find rest unto our souls. May our love not wax cold in these end times. As we are all in the same boat, and all do earnestly desire to be free from the bondage of sin and death. May we put Yah before all things, and all others before ourselves.

Dearest Riyah, I do understand what you say about the Spirit revealing. And you are absolutely right. As Paul says; "we know in part". maybe all of our "parts" togeather some how make the whole... Only Yah knows. But as you encourage, Yah shall reveal in His time. Please mention my name in prayer as David encourages. As I will mention all of yours.

May Yah bless you and all whom you touch.

Shalom my Siostra Dorota,

I can't tell you what a blessing it was to read your post. I was really feeling misunderstood, and had been praying for my "flesh" to be taken out of the way... (smile). At least we "all know" that Yah is good. And we may all praise Him accordingly.

You commented on the "name" issue. Just as Yah dealt with you, He also dealt with me in my heart and mind. I had prayed about "what do you want me to call you" for about 3 days. I had really fretted over it. The 3rd. morning I woke up before my "eyes opened", and immediately was thinking of the "name issue". Then my thoughts said; "If the diciples called Him Yahshua, it certainly can't be wrong!" And from then on, Yahshua was the name I grew to love more then I ever dreamed. I am a FIRM beleiver that Yah will deal with each individual in similar manners. I was never "pushed" to use the Sacred Names. The IDMR were very patient about that. I would say Jesus, they would say Yahshua, but no mention to me about saying "Jesus". But they did make refrence once, when I said; I just can't get used to the name Yahshua... I had no problem with Yahweh, but "Jesus" would slip out before "Yahshua". The dean of the class said; Don't worry about it, Yahweh will deal with it.
And so He did!
And I guess because that's "how" I came to know and love the Blessed "sound" (smile) Yahshua... and I do so love it. To me it even "sounds" like "salvation". (grin). That I beleive we need not condemn another in any way. For I believe that Yah will reveal to every seeking heart; "within".
As Riyah pointed out. It does happen "within".

I love you siostra, Yah bless you and all of yours.

Dear David ben Yacob,

You say; > I wonder if He is as offended as I am when people call His Torah/instructions/law the "law of Moses" instead of the law of YAHUEH ! The law of Yahueh given through Moshe yes but not "the law of Moses" ! The Talmud is called the law of Moses by the Rabbis. It is confusing when we refer to the first five books of the Bible as the "law of Moses" instead of the law of Yahueh as is stated by Yahueh and recorded by Moses. Deanna as a brother in the faith your terminology is very offensive to me and I believe it is also to Yahueh. <<

David, I do apologise for offending you. Truly, it was not in my heart to do so. I often say "The Law of Moses", because the bible says it so often. I just "quote" the bible David. Honestly.

Luke 2:22 And when the days of her purification according to the >> "law of Moses" were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to Yah;

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the "law of Moses", and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

John 7:23 If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the "law of Moses" should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

Acts 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the "law of Moses".

Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the "law of Moses".

1 Corinthians 9:9 For it is written in the "law of Moses", Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

And then there is;
John 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

I am not saying that "thou shalt not steal, bare false witness, etc. are not the laws of Yah. Or the "feasts", or all of them... except the laws on "Incest" I do have a problem with due to Abraham and Sarah, Moses' dad and mom, etc. but thats just a strange thing to me that I realize may have not been revealed to me yet... but anyway...

My point is, that "we" cannot "fulfill" them. But Yah in us can, and does. And I do know that it is a "process". and a "growth". But I do know that it is not of "our hand" that does bring righteousness about, but Yahs. I do not say it is impossible for Yahs law to be kept. I say it is impossible for "man" or for "flesh". For the law as a "lantern" may only give light when given "oil". (spirit).

So why do we say to another "Keep the law of Moses/Yah"?
Why do we not direct eachother to ASK Yah to "grant them His laws graciously" as King David did?

Many people have probably already "asked" Yah to write His laws on their heart. To keep a lying tongue far from them, a thieving hand far from, to keep the feasts etc. And if So, then YAH IS... even if it is not "evident" right a way... He still is answering their prayer! And when Yah "manifests" the "son of man" or the 'word/prayer of man' in this person...
Are they then to say; "I am strong, and an overcomer"?
Or are they to bow themselves completely unto Yah and say; "thou art good, and praise HIS "overcoming", HIS "salvation" toward them... His "answering of prayers".

This below is about "Jerusalems Victory". Do you agree that "Yarushalom" means "teaching of Peace" (# 3389) or "City of Truth"? (Zech. 8:3)
Keeping that in mind...
This is what the "victory of Jerusalem" contains:

Zechariah 12:8 In that day shall YAH defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of Yah before them.
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations(peoples) that come against Jerusalem. (teaching of peace/city of truth)10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Zechariah 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith Yah of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.

I beleive this time is now... And many are "returning unto the House of David". And many are starting to receive the "key of David". Which is knowing you have a maker, and asking Him to "make you" according to His Word.

Now reading the rest of the chapter, it tells that "after this", the nations or the peoples of the world will come and "over throw" Jerushalom (teaching of peace/ city of truth) ... and when that happens... Then Yah Himself comes and fights and defends all of his people. So before we get too comfortable being overcomers... Yah says even "after the key of David", after we have all turn our hearts to Yah and put "ourselves" in "his hands", in His working.
We are still going to be overcome. But then He shall defend all those that put their TRUST in Him. I beleive this "trust" is believing that HE "really will" "clean you up, make you new, create in you a new creature/heart".

And as David, we declare the Works of Yahs hands. Not mans.

But I never meant to offend you David. I only meant to cause people to be aware of "who" it really is that causes us to walk upright. And I do not beleive it is man. or "ourselves". But that all things are possible, and only possible... with Yah.

may Yah bless you, now and forever.

posted 12-14-2001 12:01 PM            

As I read the last few messages, I truly believe Yahweh was speaking to me and revealing some things to me. Yeah, I know what you're thinking - I always think the same thing whenever someone says something like that. "Uh-oh, another self-proclaimed prophet". Well, that's not what I mean. I just mean that I think Yahweh showed me some things, and I'd like to share them with you. This method of communicating with each other is a tremendous blessing in some ways, but it does have it's disadvantages. First among these is the lack of personal feeling. We cannot look into each other's eyes and see intent, all we can see is words. Because of that lack of personal feeling, sometimes we miss what is being said in love and take it as accusation or judgment. And sometimes we completely misunderstand what someone was actually trying to say because we could not see the intent behind their words. We end up thinking they were promoting a certain doctrine or belief when they weren't.

Scripture tells us, of course, to love "the brethren" - our brothers and sisters in Yahshua. How often do we remember that we are, in fact, a family? By adoption, yes, but a family nonetheless. Anyone who has brothers and sisters of the flesh knows that we always speak to members of the family differently than we do to "outsiders". We can be much more abrupt, and down-right callous with family members. Why? Because we know we can say what is on our minds without the other thinking we have stopped loving them. Have you ever been really, really mad at your brother or sister in the flesh for doing something you thought was wrong, or just stupid, and yelled at them? I'm sure you have - I know I have. Does that mean we don't love them, or that we are not truly concerned with their well being? Certainly not. The love and concern are still there, and as strong as ever, it just isn't revealed by the "mushy" kind of words at that time. I don't know about you, but I rarely ever use the mushy words with my sister or brother, and neither do they. But we still know the love is there, and that each of us would lay down our life for the other.

I think as brothers and sisters in Yahshua, we often talk to each other in the same way when we see something we perceive as error. There is a familiarity that is never present when talking with "unbelievers". When we talk to unbelievers, we have to try not to offend them, so we guard our words and try to show the love of Yahweh with tenderness and compassion. This is when we proclaim the good news, the promise of salvation and justification. When we talk to each other, though, I think we often expect our brother or sister to realize - because they are our brother or sister, and have already received the good news - that if we speak sternly, it is not because there is a lack of love, but because there is much love, and because we are more comfortable with them than with outsiders. When we speak to them, we drop our guard, and speak directly, in ways that we never do with unbelievers.

My dear sister DeAnna, if my comments were seen as judgment, condemnation, or accusation, I am truly sorry. Please know that all was said in love and concern for what I perceived as error in what you were saying. I have come to have that feeling of familiarity with some here, whom I truly believe to be brothers and sisters. I suppose this particular topic brings out some negative things in me. You see, I have been associated with both ends of the spectrum. I have been condemned by the legalists for not abiding by every tidbit of the law, and condemned by the "free in Jesus" crowd for abiding by too much of the law. In the past 20 years or so of searching for Yahweh's truth, I have seen legalists who exclude love, and "lovers" who exclude the law. Rarely have I found those who truly understood that the result of love IS the keeping of the law, while the result of keeping the law is - nothing.

To the legalists, Scripture says, "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of Torah; justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." (Matt. 23:23). But to the "love fulfills the law" crowd, Scripture says, "By this we know that we love the children of YHWH, when we love YHWH, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of YHWH, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." (1 John 5:2-3)

So often I have noticed people promoting doctrines that pit one portion of Scripture against another, or one portion of the law against another. They will use a quote of some verse to "prove" that another verse doesn't apply, or is no longer relevent, or isn't as important. Or they will declare that what they have quoted is "truth" to the exclusion of other Scriptures. This, brothers and sisters, is a grave error, for are we not told to live by EVERY word that proceeds from the mouth of Yahweh? We are told that the greatest commandment is to love Yahweh with all our heart (spirit), soul (mind) and strength (body). But Yahweh declares, "If you love me, keep my commandments". We know that the second greatest commandment is to love our neighbors as we love ourselves. But Scripture says we know that we love the children of Yahweh when we keep His commandments. The result of love - love for Yahweh and love for our neighbor - is the keeping of Yahweh's commandments.

We cannot love instead of keeping the commandments, and we cannot keep the commandments instead of loving. We must not omit the weightier matters of Torah - justice, mercy and faith. But we must not leave the rest undone either. If we truly love Yahweh, we will not make His name void, nor will we worship idols, nor bow down to images, nor profane His Sabbath day. If we truly love our neighbors, we will do no murder, we will not commit adultery, we will not bear false witness, etc. In this, the statement is true: "Love fulfills (performs) the law".

DeAnna, all that you have quoted from Scripture is, indeed, truth. We certainly must worship the Father in spirit. When we do this, He comes and dwells in us, and it is no longer us, but the Father in us. But there are other Scriptures that are just as true. We also are told to keep the commandments, to be free of sin, not to use grace as an excuse for our bodies to sin. We are not told to obey in spirit INSTEAD of obeying in the flesh, we are told to obey in spirit AND in the flesh. So while you are certainly correct that obedience comes from the spirit, you are also incorrect if you believe this eliminates the command for physical obedience as well.

The hour is coming, and indeed now is, when the true worshippers must worship the Father in spirit and in truth. This most certainly is truth. We must worship the Father in spirit. It is our spirit that has faith or does not, that loves Yahweh or does not, that obeys Him or does not. When we enter into the New Covenant in Yahshua's blood, the Spirit of Yahweh comes and dwells within us, with our spirits. We, then, become the Temple. The Temple of Yahweh and the Temple of Yahshua. So we are told to keep our bodies - these Temples - undefiled and free from the filth of sin, and present them as a living sacrifice to Yahweh. But what does it mean to present our bodies as living sacrifices? When we sacrifice something to Yahweh, we give it to Him. It is then His to control, His to command - it is no longer ours. If we have given our bodies to Yahweh, how then can we also give them to sin? For we are servants of whomever we choose to obey. What communion does light have with darkness, righteousness with transgression? Will we join Yahshua to a harlot - join His righteousness to sinful flesh? I beseech you in love, brothers and sisters, do not defile the Temple of the Holy One of Israel. As Yahshua has given over the members of His body to Yahweh, so should we also give over the members of our bodies to Him.

May Yahweh strengthen us all, and enable each of us to walk uprightly, and so be a witness to the world of His righteousness.

posted 12-15-2001 12:50 AM            

HalleluYAH! HalleluYAH!

I thought I would not have much more to say on the matter of the Torah. However, in reading your recent messages regarding YHWH's Torah (which includes love towards YHWH and towards one another), my soul is blessed in seeing the different levels of understanding YHWH, in His Great Will has chosen to give to each of us at this time !

Sometimes we are so eager to get to the truth of a matter that we miss enjoying the journey! The journey can be ever so sweet when we allow the Qodesh Spirit to lead, realizing that of ourselves, we can do nothing, which is what I think dear DeAnna has been saying. Your latest messages display the love and acknwledgement of the journey to truth, which for us all will take a lifetime, for no matter how well we think we understand a subject, the Scripture informs us that we will only understand and prophecy in part (I Cor. 13:9).

I pray we will continue to listen, edify, and correct one another in love, respecting the level of understanding YHWH has given each of us-- that we will no longer prematurally judge one another's faith because of his/her level of understanding at a given time. Brethren, let us continue to pray and depend on the qodesh Spirit for understanding so that we will continually be able to stand against personalities without bodies-- spiritual wickedness in high places (Eph. 6), for it is YHWH's power and might (not our own) that will ultimately give us all the victory, if we do not become weary, but continue to wait on Him !

The above being said, I wish to clarify a statement I have made several times on this forum regarding practicing the Torah in this era. I had made the statment that because we are now living in the sinful world that we have brought upon ourselves, we are not able to practice all the laws of the Torah successfully. This is not to say that the Torah is no longer valid, for we are responsible for observing as much as humanly possible until the return of Messiah, at which time the Torah will again be fully practiced (Zech. 14: 16-21).

My reason for saying this is because of the scriptures I see throughout the Torah, such as those in Lev. Chapter 15 and others, and the law about putting children to death for cursing their parents (Ex. 21:17; Matt. 15:4), for example. Under the present laws, in the world in which we live, such laws cannot be literally practiced, nonetheless, they are not invalid, for they are written in YHWH's Torah. Therefore, when I hear claims that there are those who keep all "613 laws" of the torah in this dispensation, such in my opinion, cannot be so. To "keep" YHWH's Torah is to respect it as being valid, and obey it to the fullest of one's understanding and ability, realizing that the acceptance of Messiah as Saviour is not an excuse to ignor/disobey the Torah, but the very reason to obey it-- realizing that its fullness is held in abeyance until Messiah's return.

This is my understanding at the moment. Any thoughts?

Blessings,

Riyah