The link you posted contains a lot of truths I had not known before. It made me reconsider my beliefs that were built on many years of scriptural study. Indeed, I too thought that YAHWEH was the definite transliteration.

Here's another interesting article on the same site:
http://www.biblestudy.org/maturart/two-jehovahs-psalms.pdf

Unless we know for a fact HOW the Sacred Name was pronounced in Paleo-Hebrew we cannot for 100% know how it really should be pronounced. Remember that modern Ivrit hebrew is not like the old language.

The closest we can get to know about this, as far as I know, would be *YAHWEH*. If there is some other facts, evidences that are proven more close to the original, then we should use it.

We can, I guess, however know pretty well how it was, and should be written, and what letters it included. Otherwise we have to, as sister Ana said, distrust the Bible.

But one should also stress that the Name is not just four letters, the Name represents the Father and all that He is, a crucial fact often overlooked in certain circles...

To have a relationship with the four letters of His Name in it's written form is one thing, to have a relationship with this Name A N D what it represents is another...

Shalom,

http://www.yaih.com/tet.htm

Greetings to you!

I've been there and done that with the pronuncaition of YHWH. But here is something we must consider: in the ancient pantheon of Semetic deities, Yah, Yahu or El was the father of the gods. He was always a shadowy figure, in the background, while other gods (particularly the mother or son) were in the forefront. This is how error works. There is no way pagans could deny the existence of YHWH so they got people to think of their dead heros and myths and to eventually forget YHWH or remake Him into another deity. This does not mean that Yah, El, Adon, YHWH or other words are actually names of pagan deities. They belonged to YHWH long before the pagans corrupted them.

As to the pronounciation, the Encyclopedia Judaica tells us that the pronounciation of YHWH was never lost and recomends Yahweh. The early Christian writers spelled the name IAOUE which would come out as Yahuweh or Yahweh. The difference would be based on the linguistic abilites of the speakers. We can see this in Judges 12 where the test of being an Ephriamite was whether one could pronounce the 'sh' sound (shibboleth instead of sibboleth). The same goes for Yahweh vs Yahveh. We are in the ball park with these pronounciations. Yehowah comes from mixing the letters YHWH with the altered vowels of adonai, a mistake of mideaval Christian writers.

In His Service,

I hate to burst people's bubble, but I've had prayers answered in 'Jesus's Name; Christ, Yahshua, Y'shua, etc...'
The Name is not a magic wand and those who use 'Lord' and 'God' and 'Jesus' are having their prayers answered too. Oops! From small to miraculous, they're being heard and done.
That doesn't mean I don't think His Name is important or that you can call Him whatever floats your boat, but it still doesn't make it a magic tool no matter how you slice it. If those are the intents of some, then that is sad. Time for a reality check there.

I write> Everyone has the right to their own opinions, but in my personal opinion, the pronunciation is 100 percent attainable without much difficulty, that is, if someone truly wishes to seek it out. See Chapter 9 of this link: http://yahweh.org/PDF_index1.html

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jamie:

I hate to burst people's bubble, but I've had prayers answered in 'Jesus's Name; Christ, Yahshua, Y'shua, etc...'

Jamie

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Hi Jamie

May I ask, How do you know your prayers were answered because of the name Jesus?

Shalom
Daron

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here's another interesting article on the same site:
http://www.biblestudy.org/maturart/two-jehovahs-psalms.pdf

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

..........for your consideration :

..Joseph Bryant Rotherham, in The Emphasized Bible; A New Translation, Cincinnati, Ohio, The Standard Publishing Co., 1902, Introduction, The Incommunicable Name, says:

.." And first as to age. 'The pronunciation Jehovah was unknown until 1520, when it was introduced by Galatinus; but was contested by Le Mercier, J. Drusius, and L. Capellus, as against grammatical and historical propriety.' (Oxford Gesenius, P. 218.) Next, as to formation. 'Erroneously written and pronounced Jehovah, which is merely a combination of the sacred Tetragrammaton and the vowels in the Hebrew for Lord, substituted by the Jews (Yahdaim) for JHVH (YHWH), because they shrank from pronouncing The Name, owing to an old misconception of the two passages (Exodus xx. 7 and Leviticus xxiv. 16)...To give the name JHVH the vowels of the word for Lord (Heb. Adonai) and pronounce it Jehovah, is about as hybrid a combination as it would be to spell the name Germany with the vowels in the name Portugal--viz., Gormuna...-Jehovah is not older than about 1520 c.e.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

Shalom !
Lavi Chagyah

I write>> I'm not trying to sound rude, but you're asking what does the proper name of the creator of the heavens & earth really matter? His name is in the OT nearly 7,000 times. This is a strange question coming from a person who studies the Scriptures. Have you searched out all the various places in his word to see what he has to say about his name? Ask the Scriptures, they will tell you if you earnstly seek this out. Yahweh commanded mankind to call upon his name--yes, and shem means a mark or memorial of individuality which also implies character, authority and honor. The word "shem" also means an appellation, which means the act of calling by a name; an identifying name or title: designation. There is only one name for salvation--which is YAHWEH.

Has scripture not proven that the everlastig has been known by many
names?

I write>> That's not what the Scriptures say. Yahweh never once says he has "many names." Perhaps you're confusing various titles and generic names???

We as men seek knowledge and wisdom in vain. Can the everlasting spirit be named or do we find game in discussing this matter. Each of us chooses the name that we believe is the truth and constantly strives to prove our point.

I write>> Why do you say we seek knowledge and wisdom in vain?

Prov. 15:14, The heart of the understanding SEEKS knowledge.
Prov. 18:15, The heart of the understanding OBTAINS knowledge and the ear of the wise SEEKS knowledge.
Prov. 8:17, I (wisdom) love them that love me, and those that SEEK ME EARNESTLY shall find me.

There are tons of Scriptures about seeking knowledge, wisdom and understanding. But what we are to seek is Yahweh's knowledge, wisdom and understanding, not the wisdom and understanding of the world. 1 Cor. 1:17-24.

This is to those who are saying that the true and correct pronunciation of Yahweh's name cannot be obtained. It is Yahweh that commanded mankind to call upon his name (3rd commandment). Why would he give a commandment to call upon his name and allow his name to be somehow lost? It's the same thing with the sabbath. Why would Yahweh give a commandment to mankind to keep his sabbath, then somehow allow the correct day to be lost?

What one may need to start with is this, in Matt. 7:7-8 & Luke 11:9-11, Yahushua states:

Ask, and it shall be given to you; seek, and you shall find; knock and
the door shall be opened to you. For everyone that asks receives and he that seeks finds and to him that knocks it shall be opened.

Shalom
Daron

Shalom Daron. They weren't answered because I used the magical name 'Jesus'. That's my whole point. My prayers were answered because I was in ignorance of Names and titles and I did my best to please my Father in Heaven. It was something He obviously winked at until I was shown a thing or two.
I know this upsets people who believe Christians call on demons when they use 'Jesus and God' and I'm sorry people so hate those names that they get downright ugly about it (not talking to you Daron, this is in general).
Fact remains, He hears those people too. Using 'Yahweh' and 'Y'shua' doesn't get you on Yah's A list nor does it give anyone snobbery rights because 'they think they know His Name.'
His Name is precious, but it's arleady been posted here, there's no conclusive evidence one way or another. Just when you think you've got it right, then something else comes along to stir your ideas back up again.
We all need to watch what we say and do because in the end, we aren't going to be tested on what the Father's Name is, no, that will be given, what we'll be tested on is our fruits.....love, peace, joy, etc...
Let's not let our fruits rot while we study and research the Names.

Peace,
Jamie

You nailed it!

Who among us can say they didn't have some different belief in the past from what they have now, including the name issue, sabbath, clean foods, feasts or what have you?

And is it not a miracle that each of us (who maybe at one time used to worship to other names or violate sabbath unwittingly, etc.) are even alive to post here? Is that not some awesome sign of mercy and grace? Who are we to then to judge others who are maybe where we were years or months ago, who just haven't caught up with us yet?

Maybe some of them (those presently still caught up in false names/sabbaths, anti-torah, etc.) will one day awaken. What if one day these surpass us (you and me) in this search for truth. So we must be careful what we say to them today! YHWH may use this same person to testify to you about something serious ten years from now! Think about that for a minute.

Maybe someone here has absolute proof of the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, right here and right now. Until then, a little understanding and empathy will be appropriate when dealing with thy neighbor. He may save your butt someday!

Who among us can say they didn't have some different belief in the past from what they have now, including the name issue, sabbath, clean foods, feasts or what have you?

probably not too many, that'd be my guess, but I wouldn't want to say for sure. I've been so guilty of this in the past...once learning these certain truths and then finding myself up on a pedestal and wondering what in the world I was doing, as I was then and am still now, dust of the earth with very limited knowledge and what I do have comes from above, not from man

And is it not a miracle that each of us (who maybe at one time used to worship to other names or violate sabbath unwittingly, etc.) are even alive to post here? Is that not some awesome sign of mercy and grace? Who are we to then to judge others who are maybe where we were years or months ago, who just haven't caught up with us yet?

It is a sign of mercy and grace that is just very hard to comprehend, it is amazing how much our Father actually puts up with (ignorance). I've had to learn painfully and slowly not to judge those who are still in other denominations who think they're doing their utmost for His Highest. It breaks my heart when I think of these people because they are so sincere and the intent of their heart in worship is so astounding. However, I'm of no use up on my pedestal looking down on them. We may not be able to do the actual convicting, that is of the Ruach Ha Quodesh, but it's much easier to plant seeds than to pitch them from above and hope they land where they should

Maybe some of them (those presently still caught up in false names/sabbaths, anti-torah, etc.) will one day awaken. What if one day these surpass us (you and me) in this search for truth. So we must be careful what we say to them today! YHWH may use this same person to testify to you about something serious ten years from now! Think about that for a minute.

Yep, that is a huge possibility there and definitely something to keep in mind

Maybe someone here has absolute proof of the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, right here and right now. Until then, a little understanding and empathy will be appropriate when dealing with thy neighbor. He may save your butt someday!

I certainly wish I had the above, but I do not. Three cheers for empathy and understanding! Cuz on certain forums, I'm certainly not receiving them from some when voicing my concerns and doubts...and that reeks of man-made religionism (is that a word? lol). Anyway, some will write you off if you don't agree with everything they say and believe...but then they're over here harrasing Christians, Muslims, etc...to come out of 'their sins' and question THEIR pastors. Double standard there. If we want to show other believers some things like Sabbath, they will have to question and doubt their pastor, bishop, priest, etc on things. See what I'm saying? Those very things that they themselves won't allow in their own congregations. Ah, the humanity.

I pray D'MarYah has mercy on us all, cuz we're all going to need it.

Shalom,
Jamie J.

[This message has been edited by Jamie (edited 12-04-2002).]