posted 04-23-2001 09:51 PM            

The only question I'm asking in this post is: "What language did the Apostle Paul write his epistles in"?

That's it. One short question.

Regards

posted 04-24-2001 12:41 AM            

I see another post that has traveled down a different path from which it started.
I had to respond again Marlin....not regarding the name of Yahshua (Jesus), but regarding scripture...Matthew 13:24

I am not a professed learner of HIS Word, but, I have found that we need to read ALL of HIS Word, and be careful of selecting for our own points (personal beliefs).

Starting with Matthew 13:1-52....
I truely believe it is not related to false names and scriptures, but on a greater SPIRITUAL level.

"The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world , and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil..." Matthew 13:37-39

We as Yahshua's children are the sons of the kingdom. We have been sowed by Yahshua...into this world... to be the light...

Oh...this could be a great topic...to go on and truely explore what the Kingdom of heaven is like...it would convict us I think!

(Not an arguement Marlin, just from my heart.)

posted 04-24-2001 11:46 AM            

1. Jesus -

There are two reasons for eliminating the name "Jesus" from the list of possible names for the Messiah. The first one is, the letter "J" has been in use for less than 500 years (in the English alphabet). I used a simple mathematical equation to make this determination.

The letter "J" came into use (approx.)---------1500 a.d.
Birth of the Messiah (approx.)------------------- 0001 a.d
Discrepancy (approx.)-------------------------------1499 years

Conclusion: WOW! A 1499% margin of error.

Seriously though, Encarta97's encyclopedia puts the date of universal use (of the letter J ) in the mid 1600's.

J, tenth letter and seventh consonant in the English alphabet. It is the latest addition to English script and has been inserted in the alphabet after I, from which it was developed. J appeared first in Roman times, when it was used sometimes to indicate the long i vowel sound, but often was used interchangeably with I. In the Middle Ages the elongated form (J) was used as an ornamental device, most often initially and in numeral series. Not until the middle of the 17th century did the use of j as an initial become universal in English books. Long after the invention of printing, j thus became more than a mere calligraphic variation of i (which in Latin could be either vowel or semivowel), and was restricted to a consonantal function at any position in a word.
Copyright (C) Microsoft

Some people have said, well, Jesus originated from the Greek name Iesous; and the "Ie" pronounced (ee-ay) is merely a softer sounding "J.". And, in the process of time, it evolved into the letter "J."
That may be so, but that still doesn't add one iota of credibility to the name Jesus, or Iesous.
Why?
Reason #2 - The name Iesous is of Greek origin, and the Messiah was a Hebrew. The name given to the Messiah was delivered to Mary by an angel who was sent directly by YAOHU.
Do you honestly believe that YAOHU gave His Son the Greek name "Jesus?"

If your still skeptical of these simple facts, take a look at how the bible scholars try to back paddle on the name Iesous, and create some sort of link to the original Hebrew name.

Strong's definitions:

2424 Iesous (ee-ay-sooce'); of Hebrew origin [3091]; Jesus (i.e. Jehoshua), the name of our Lord and two (three) other Israelites:

....of Hebrew origin, see #3091;

3091 Lot (lote); of Hebrew origin [3876]; Lot, a patriarch:

.... Lot? See 3876;

3876 Lowt (lote); the same as 3875; Lot, Abraham's nephew:

....again, Lot? Am I missing something? How can you transliterate the name "Lot" into "Iesous?"
________________________________________________________

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words)
JESUS
iesous ^2424^ is a transliteration of the Heb. "Joshua," meaning "Jehovah is salvation," i. e., "is the Savior," "a common name among the Jews, e. g.,
(Copyright (C) 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers}

According to Vine's, "Iesous" is a transliteration of the Hebrew "Joshua." Strong's translation for the Hebrew word "Joshua" is;

3091 Yehowshuwa` (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah);<~~~~~~[we're getting closer]
or Yehowshu` a (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah); from 3068 and 3467; Jehovah-saved; Jehoshua (i.e. Joshua), the Jewish leader:

The encyclopedia seems to agree with Vine's

The name Jesus is derived from a Greek rendering of the Hebrew name Joshua, or in full Yehoshuah (Jehovah is deliverance). Encarta97

The problem with a Greek rendering of the Hebrew is:

IT'S NOT THE ORIGINAL NAME !
________________________________________________________

Here is the definition of the name Jesus from Matthew Henry's Commentary;

Jesus is the same name with Joshua, the termination only being changed, for the sake of conforming it to the Greek.

The termination (or end ) only being changed to conform it to the Greek? You mean the ending "shua" (shoo-ah) was changed to "sus" (sooce), and that's no big deal? Just to conform it to the Greek? [ Keep back paddling Mr. Henry]
_______________________________________________________

Before we can take a look at the REAL reason for changing "shua" into "sooce." we'll have to digress somewhat and look at a short summary of world history, from the time immediately following the birth of the Messiah.

All of the modern biblical names that begin with a "J," are incorrect based soley on the fact that the letter "J" did not exist at the time of the Messiah's birth. The name Iesous is incorrect because the Messiah was not Greek, so why would His name be given in Greek. The message of Yaohushua was delivered first to the Yaohudim (Jews), then to the gentiles. He was born of Hebrew parents, who were counted as righteous by YAOHU because they obeyed His word. And when they were told to name Him Yaohushua, they did it. This testimony of them is given in the scriptures.

To Continue [CLICK HERE]

http://yaohushua.hypermart.net/evenmore.htm

posted 04-24-2001 05:25 PM         

If you wished to transliterate the Hebrew names yod-hei-waw-shin-ayin and yod-shin-waw-ayin into Greek, how would you do it? We know how the translators of the LXX working 150-250 years before the birth of Yeshua did it. They used iota-eta-sigma-omicron-upsilon-sigma. If you think this is wrong what would you use?

B'rakhot

ThePhysicist

Added note concerning the prevvious post. The author says:

1. Jesus -

There are two reasons for eliminating the name "Jesus" from the list of possible names for the Messiah. The first one is, the letter "J" has been in use for less than 500 years (in the English alphabet). I used a simple mathematical equation to make this determination.

The letter "J" came into use (approx.)---------1500 a.d.
Birth of the Messiah (approx.)------------------- 0001 a.d
Discrepancy (approx.)-------------------------------1499 years

Conclusion: WOW! A 1499% margin of error.

The argument is totally bogus, but beyond that the author can not even do correct 4th grade arithmetic! By the author's own method the error is 149900%. What reason do we have for believing he exercises any more care with his Hebrew?

posted 04-24-2001 06:46 PM            

Just in case the question was missed - A quick reminder - The question is this:

"What language did the Apostle Paul write his epistles in"?

If you could just post a brief answer (it only really needs one word), then you and I can continue to discuss this.

Glenn

posted 04-25-2001 12:00 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Theonomy:
MN Marlin

Just in case the question was missed - A quick reminder - The question is this:

"What language did the Apostle Paul write his epistles in"?

If you could just post a brief answer (it only really needs one word), then you and I can continue to discuss this.

Glenn

[This message has been edited by Theonomy (edited 04-24-2001).]

---

__________________

Glen,

"What language did the Apostle Paul write his epistles in"?

Its immaterial what language Paul used, one can be sure that he used our SAVIOR'S given -----> HEBREW name, and Paul did not manufacture some Greek name for him. And for certain NOT one
that means ---> the/PIG.

BTW Glen, my posts are not to try and convince you or anyone else, they are more as a witness for the truth. MN Marlin;

"For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear
with their ears, Lest they should understand
with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.'

posted 04-25-2001 08:04 AM         

If Paul wrote in Greek what GREEK letters did he use to write the Messiah's name. That's a simple question that should have a simple answer.

B'rakhot

posted 04-26-2001 11:49 PM            

My SECOND QUESTION is this - when Paul wrote in Greek, how did he write the saviour's name? Answering this question is easy, just refer to any Greek text of the New Testament.

I'll make the answer really easy, just fill in the blank int his sentence:

When Paul, while writing his epistles in Greek (e.g. Romans, 1 Corinthians etc) referred to the Son of God by name, he wrote down the name _________ with Greek letters.

What word correctly fits in the blank?

posted 04-27-2001 12:12 AM            

Acts 4:12

Salvation is found in no one else, for there is

------------> [no other name] (YAHHUSHUA)

under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

Jer.17:9,(KJV)

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked:
who can know it?

Jer.17:9, (RSV)

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately corrupt;
who can understand it?

Here are your Strong's Search Results E-Mail us!
More Search Tools!! Lexicon for Strong's Number 07854 Go to Job 1:12

07854 satan {saw-tawn'}

from 07853; TWOT - 2252a; n m

AV - Satan 19, adversary 7, withstand 1; 27

1) adversary, one who withstands
1a) adversary (in general - personal or national)
2) superhuman adversary
2a) Satan (as noun pr)

07854 -----------> "satan" ----------------> {saw-tawn'} (Hebrew)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Strong's Search Results E-Mail us!
More Search Tools!! Lexicon for Strong's Number 4567 Go to Rev 12:9

4567 Satanas {sat-an-as'}

of Aramaic origin corresponding to 4566 (with the definite
affix); TDNT - 7:151,1007; n pr m

AV - Satan 36; 36

1) adversary (one who opposes another in purpose or act), the
name given to
1a) the prince of evil spirits, the inveterate adversary of

God and Christ

4567 ------------> Satanas ---------------> {sat-an-as'} (Greek)

As we can see ---> [satan's name] came acros the language
barrier without hardly a change.

07854 -----------> "satan" ----------------> {saw-tawn'} (Hebrew)

4567 ------------> Satanas ---------------> {sat-an-as'} (Greek)

But when the SAVIOR'S NAME (YAHHUSHUA) crossed over you have a diffrent story, it became completely changed.

YAHHUSHUA became je/sus (the/PIG)

Why?... because its the only.....----> " N A M E " .

"Salvation is found in no one else, for there is

---------------> [no other name] (YAHHUSHUA)

under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

Jer.17:9, (RSV)

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately corrupt; who can understand it?

Mat.24:
24
For there shall arise ------------> [false Christs], and
----------> [false prophets], and shall
shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible,

they shall ----------> [deceive the very elect].

Its because the Je-sus people are totally deceived that they celebrate their counterfeit passover "easter" by feasting on (easter..HAM/PIG meat) their savior je-SUS ---> THE/PIG.

<> MN Marlin

posted 04-27-2001 08:30 AM         

My question is easier than than Glenn's because it allows you some "wiggle room". If the commonly used transliteration of Messiah's name into Greek is wrong, then what is the correct transliteration? The answer is just a string of GREEK letters. What are those letters? Please, no sermons!

You say:

YAHHUSHUA became je/sus (the/PIG)

You've shown a reference that "sus" neans "pig" in Latin. Now I ask you in what language does "je" mean "the"? Futhermore, if the sound "sus" ALWAYS means "pig", how can "sus", samekh-waw-samekh mean "horse" in Hebrew?

B'rakhot

posted 04-28-2001 03:29 PM            

You asked:

"You've shown a reference that "sus" neans "pig" in Latin.
Now I ask you in what language does "je" mean "the"? Futhermore,
if the sound "sus" ALWAYS means "pig", how can "sus",
samekh-waw-samekh mean "horse" in Hebrew?"

Main Entry: i.e.
Function: abbreviation
Etymology: Latin id est
that is

"IESOUS"

IE/SOUS <----> JE/SUS

ie = "that is".

ie = that is ----> sous (sus/pig)

je = that is --> sus/pig, or in other words ---> "the/pig"

Its because the "Je-sus people" are --> [totally deceived] (Rev.12:9) that
they celebrate their counterfeit passover (easter) by feasting on
(ham/pig/swine flesh) which symbolicly corresponds to their savior
je-SUS ---> ie/je = "that is", or ---> THE/PIG.

More Search Tools!! Lexicon for Strong's Number 2424 Go to Mat 1:1
2424 Iesous {ee-ay-sooce'}

of >>>>------------> [Hebrew origin 03091]; TDNT - 3:284,360; n pr m

AV - Jesus 972, Jesus ---> (Joshua) 2, Jesus (Justus) 1; 975

Jesus = "Jehovah is salvation"
1) Jesus, the Son of God, the Saviour of mankind, God incarnate
2) Jesus Barabbas was the captive robber whom the Jews begged Pilate
to release instead of Christ

3) Joshua was the famous captain of the Israelites, Moses' successor
(Ac. 7:45, Heb. 4:8)

4) Jesus, son of Eliezer, one of the ancestors of Christ (Lu. 3:29)
5) Jesus, surnamed Justus, a Jewish Christian, an associate with
Paul in the preaching of the gospel (Col. 4:11)

Heb.4:8 (KJV)
For if ---> [Jesus] had given them rest, then would he not afterward have
spoken of another day.

Heb.4:8 (RSV)
For if --> [Joshua] had given them rest, YAHHU would not speak later of another day.

Acts 7:45 (KJV)

Which also our fathers that came after brought in with ---> [Jesus]
into the possession of the Gentiles, whom YAHHU drave out before the face
of our fathers, unto the days of David.

Acts 7:45, (NKJV)

Which our fathers, having received it in turn, also brought
with ----> [Joshua] into the land possessed by the Gentiles,
whom YAHHU drove out before the face of our fathers until
the days of David,

Strongs ----> AV - Jesus 972, Jesus <=====> (Joshua)

Joshua [03091] (Hebrew) --> Y@howshuwa`

Joshua [????] (Greek) --> ?_________

________________
You write:

"My question is easier than than Glenn's because it allows you
some "wiggle room".
If the commonly used transliteration of --->[Messiah's name]
into Greek is wrong,
then what is the correct -----> transliteration?
The answer is just a string of GREEK letters.
What are those letters? Please, no sermons!

Since Strong's does not have a listing for
---> [Joshua/Yahhushua] (Messiah's name) in Greek,
I am unable to answer your question Neal.

If anyone reading this would know what [Joshua] is in Greek please post it.

Neal, even if all of what has been covered in this topic is mute, we still face the hard cold fact that there are people out there that celebrate their easter feast,
feasting on ---> [easter HAM] PIG/SWINE meat, BTW, this [ham]does not come from horses. <> MN Marlin

posted 04-29-2001 02:02 AM            

Your post was a statement of your position. But at no time did you answer my question. So I'll just repost it and hope you answer this time:

My SECOND QUESTION is this - when Paul wrote in Greek, how did he write the saviour's name? Answering this question is easy, just refer to any Greek text of the New Testament.

I'll make the answer really easy, just fill in the blank int his sentence:

When Paul, while writing his epistles in Greek (e.g. Romans, 1 Corinthians etc) referred to the Son of God by name, he wrote down the name _________ with Greek letters.

What word correctly fits in the blank?

Glenn

posted 04-30-2001 05:37 AM            

You ask:
_________________
How can one be sure that Paul actually wrote in Greek?
_________________

Well, there are things that can make us sure that Paul wrote in Greek.

1.) All the oldest copies of Paul's writing is in Greek.

2.) Paul's audience invariably lived in a Greek speaking area.

3.) Whenever Paul quotes from the Tanakh ("Old Testament"), he clearly quotes from the Spetuagint, that is, the Greek version of the Old Testament. This can be seen not only because he quotes it in Greek, but also because of the wording that is distinctive of the Septuagint.

Hope these points help!

Glenn