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Author Topic:   YHWSHUA
TheWAYne

Posts: 202
Registered: May 2000

posted 06-10-2000 02:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TheWAYne     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Shalom

You may need Hebrew fronts to read this and they are at : http://www.scroll.to/Yahshua http://www.dtcc.edu/~berlin/font/hebrew.htm

YAHSHUA or YHWSHUA(YAHOWSHUA/YAHWESHUA)

Hi, I have a question about The Name Of The Messiah. I hope there is someone out there that can help as it is in my and all our best interests to resolve this problem with the correct spelling and pronounciation Of The Messiah. I feel that by posting this that we all as fellow seekers for The Truth can come to an agreement or at least hear what each other think on this issue.

During my studies while learning Hebrew I have noticed that Yahshua actually has a >W< missing! am I reading it wrong or right?

well this is how it is,(excuse my Grammar as I am learning)

YHWSO (O=AYIN/Omega) is what i see in this Paleo Hebrew writting of The Messiah (right to left)
oswhyy
(Y) h(H) w(W) s(S) o(O)
lets have a look at strongs as well,

Joshua [03091],
Y@howshuwa` {yeh-ho-shoo'-ah} or Y@howshu`a {yeh-ho-shoo'-ah} oswhy

I can understand there may and will be some bias answers to my question as to what organization you may Assembly/Congregate/meet with but If I am misleading anyone by proclaiming Yahshua when I should be using YHWshua(YAHOWshua/YAHWEshua) that is on my shoulders and I want to proclaim My Saviours Name In Truth, not to tickle mans ears with words that are made up but to Please Father YHWH through Yahshua/YHWshua Messiah in Truth and deed.

well maybe I might have you thinking now as well.
but please for the benifit of Myself Yourself and Everyone else I think this is a descusion that needs to be talked about because there are so many different pronounciations of The Messiah Yahshua/YHWshua

Untill then,

May The Peace Of YHWH that excels all thought guard your hearts and your minds by means Of Yahshua/YHWshua Messiah
HalleluYHWH

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TheWAYne

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Registered: May 2000

posted 06-10-2000 02:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TheWAYne     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
it seems Paleo and modern Hebrew did not transfer onto this page for some reason. My apologies!
also

oswhyy<<<<<<<OSWHY

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ThePhysicist

Posts: 428
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posted 06-10-2000 06:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ThePhysicist     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Shalom TheWAYne

I have dealt with this subject rather extensively on the "Definitions" thread in a reply to DeAnna. My statements are not based on Strongs, but from a direct reading of the Hebrew Tanakh.

ThePhysicist

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TheWAYne

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posted 06-11-2000 03:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TheWAYne     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Shalom ThePhysicist

sorry Im quite new to this Post and do not understand what you ment by "thread"

quote:
>>>>>>>I have dealt with this subject rather extensively on the "Definitions" thread in a reply to DeAnna.<<<<<<<<<
unquote.

please excuse me for my misunderstanding..
and I hope to hear from you again..

Thank you for your reply and I look forward to reading this Thread you mentioned..

Blessings to you always..
WAYne

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OldShepherd

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posted 06-11-2000 05:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for OldShepherd   Click Here to Email OldShepherd     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
TheWAYne,

         Here is a link to the "thread" ThePhysicist was referring to. "Thread" refers to the "thread" of the conversation/discussion on a particular topic. This e.g. is the "YHWSHUA" thread.

http://www.eliyah.com/forum2/Forum1/HTML/002081.html

         Also here are some brief quotes from other links that address the topic of the Messiah's name.

The Messiah's Hebrew Name: "Yeshua" or "Yahshua"? By Dr. Daniel Botkin.
         "The Messiah's Hebrew name is usually transliterated as either Yeshua or Yahshua. Under normal circumstances I would not bother to write an article about something as trivial as the difference between the vowel sounds "e" and "ah." There is a need to address this subject, though, because some people who use the Yahshua form say untrue things about those who use the Yeshua form.
         The opponents of the Yeshua form claim that this pronunciation is the result of a Jewish conspiracy to hide the Saviour's true name. Those who call the Messiah Yeshua are accused of perpetuating a Jewish conspiracy and "denying His name" or "degrading Him" by their use of the Yeshua form. If you have never read or heard these outlandish accusations, you probably will eventually. From time to time I receive printed articles and personal letters to this effect. * * *
         You don't have to just take my word for it, though. Dr. Danny Ben-Gigi says of the Yahshua form that "there is no such name in Hebrew" and that "people invented it to fit their theology."1 Dr. Ben-Gigi is an Israeli and former head of Hebrew programs at Arizona State University. He is the author of the book First Steps in Hebrew Prayers, and he designed and produced the "Living Israeli Hebrew" language learning course. Dr. David Bivin, a Christian, says that the Yahshua pronunciation "is rooted in misunderstanding."2 Dr. Bivin is a renowned Hebrew scholar and teacher and author of Fluent Biblical Hebrew. * * *
         The English form Jesus is derived from the New Testament Greek name Iesous pronounced "Yaysous." According to Strong's, Yaysous (#2424) is "of Hebrew origin" and can be traced back to Joshua's Hebrew name, Yehoshua (#3091) * * * There is no "sh" sound in Greek, which accounts for the middle "s" sound in Yaysous. The "s" at the end of the Greek name is a grammatical necessity, to make the word declinable.* * *
         In Neh. 8:17, Joshua's name is 100% identical to the name which today's Messianic Jews use for the Messiah, Yeshua. Strong's confirms this pronunciation, and tells us that there were ten Israelites in the Bible who bore this name (#3442). Therefore shortening Yehoshua to Yeshua predates the Christian era by at least 500 years, and cannot be the result of a Jewish conspiracy to hide the Savior's true name.4 The form Yeshua existed for several hundred years before the Messiah was even born. Even in the pre-Christian Septuagint, we see the Greek form (Iesous) in the title of the Book of Joshua. (This is also proof that Iesous has no connection to the pagan god Zeus.)

http://www.tribnews.net/bibanswers/apologetics/hebname.html

"JERUSALEM, Israel - As new archaeological discoveries emerge and past ones are studied again, scholars are becoming more and more intrigued by the extent and size of the first century Christian Church in Jerusalem. Moreover, historians are surprised to discover dedications to "Jesus" appearing in Hebrew and Greek in numerous ancient catacombs (burial caves) which apparently belonged to the very first Christians."
         Here is archaeological evidence of the name Iesous, in Greek, and Yeshua, in Hebrew being found in the same tomb, dating to 41 AD, in Jerusalem. The families of believers who died within 7-8 years of the Messiah, in the same Jewish city where He was crucified, certainly would not be referring to a pagan deity or "degrading His name", when they made dedications to, "Iesous who ascended," on the tombs of their loved ones. See URL below, click on past issues, Volume 9 Issues 2 and 6, and several others.

http://www.christian.edu/

Zaqunra’ahyahuw
Lo'Qor 'Azar Yadah

[This message has been edited by OldShepherd (edited 06-12-2000).]

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TheWAYne

Posts: 202
Registered: May 2000

posted 06-14-2000 01:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TheWAYne     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Shalom OldShepherd

Thanks for the reply and information


I just don`t understand how one can get Yeshua out of YHWshua!
How does YHW become ~YE~. I mean i look at ~Yahshua~and notice a ~W~ missing
now i look at ~Yeshua~ and notice ~HW~ missing.
it just dont add up to me !

and why is YAH, in lots of Names like:
EliYAH.... ZephaniYAH....ZechariYAH....JeremiYAH...IsaiYAH(or YAHU<< ~U~ on the end) ect,ect,.......
yet when it comes to The Sons Name Who came In The Name of The Father has "YE"?....
Should not once we look at all those other examples lead us to the conclusion that The Sons Name also have YHW/YAHW .. like YAH_... as in YAHW...YAHU... YAHO... and iff its not a ~W~ that is there and its a ~U~ or a ~O~ then why do we use a ~W~ in regards to YHWH and change it to a ~U~ or a ~O~ or even a ~V~ or leave it out completely when its writtin as YHWSO ?

I mean we iff we look at the following Names in Hebrew (goto the links next to the Names to see) They all Have YHW in them!
I mean even YAHW(O)HANAN Has The Trtragrammaton in The First 4 letter ..YHWHanan.
Yet none of these are translated ~YE~!
they are all YHW(O)

YAHO(W)ZABAD....http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/strongs/960958912.html
YAHO(W)ZADAK...http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/strongs/960959103.html
YAHO(W)AHAZ...http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/strongs/960959230.html
YAHO(W)ASH...http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/strongs/960959317.html
YAHO(W)HANAN...http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/strongs/960959463.html
ect,ect....................

How does ~YE~ give credit to The Short term YAH or YHW ?
do we say HalleluYAH or HalleluYE ? we`ll i ve never heard of HalleluYE myself.
it just doesn`t seem to add up to me!
please help me to see how one can change YHW to ~YE~ once we look at all these other Names it just don`t make any sense to me why ?!

I am not meaning to pick on the abreviation(YE) that people/Assemblies/Congregations ect use, please don`t look at it that way
If I`m missiing something here please fill me in or iff I`m not and anyone can see where I`m comming from, I`d apreciate a reply to give a deaper understanding of this.

Blessings Always
WAYne
http://www.dtcc.edu/~berlin/font/hebrew.htm http://www.biblestudytools.net/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=03091&version=kjv http://qumran.com/holeyboard/_holeydisc/00000067.htm

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ThePhysicist

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posted 06-14-2000 09:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ThePhysicist     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Shalom

Yeshua is the shortened form of the name from yod-shin-vav-ayin. Y'hoshua is the longer form from yod-hei-vav-shin-(vav)-ayin. There is no mystery here. People who can read and speak Hebrew have no problem here. The name of haMashiakh can be written and pronounced as either Y'hoshua or Yeshua. There is no "Yahshua" in Hebrew.

If you are not convinced, I would suggest buying a good Biblical Hebrew text or a book on the alef-bet for adults. There are a number of good choices available from sources as Amazon.com.

B'rakhot

ThePhysicist

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TheWAYne

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Registered: May 2000

posted 06-15-2000 04:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TheWAYne     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Shalom All,
Shalom Physicist,


Thankyou for the reply

..........................................
quote (Physicist)
"The name of haMashiakh can be written and pronounced as either Y'hoshua or Yeshua. There is no "Yahshua" in Hebrew".
unquote.
..........................................


In otherwords All who Use and teach That The Sons Name Is Yahshua are misguided by the false Scribes(Jeremiah 8:8) by what you are saying/quoting(well not you personally of course), iff it is not the correct spelling/pronounciation then its a lie, or in a more subtle way of putting it >misguided<

I am truely suprised that no one who calls on The Name Yahshua has not made a comment on this!

Iff You call on The Name Of Yahshua(those reading this post), please post on here why You think it is correct and I`ll be happy to listen.

I see You mentioned The Name Y`hoshua< now thats closer then Yeshua as to the Way I read YHWshua.
but would it be aceptable to use Yahoshua or Yahushua?

I look forward to any replies on The Sons Name and the help on this matter is much apreciated
thank you

Blessings always
WAYne

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ThePhysicist

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posted 06-15-2000 08:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ThePhysicist     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Shalom TheWATne

I posted this on the "Trinty" thread in response to a question from Follower Sar Shalom, but it is really out of place there so I'm reposting it here.

Perhaps I can go directly to the heart of all pronunciation questions. If all we have is an ancient text we can say nothing about the pronunciation. We have to have information from some source as to how sounds are connected to the symbols. The best source is a continuous tradition of the spoken language. For Hebrew, the closest thing to that is the Masoretic pointing and the tradition of pronunciation in the synagogue. Remember, the Torah is read through in the synagogue on a yearly basis and with the Torah portion there is also a corresponding Haftorah portion. We also have Rabbinic commentaries written in Hebrew that add to our knowledge.

Knowledge of pronunciation can also come from the transliteration of names and terms into another language. A common example here, is "Iesous" which is how "Yeshua" was transliterated into Greek. Such transliterations give information about the correspondence of sound in the two languages. Of course, the method is not without difficulties. It has frequently been mentioned here that Greek has no "h" or "sh" sound so the Hebrew "shin" is tranliterated into Greek as "sigma". Finally pronunciation of an ancient language can be studied by comparing related words in either similar or geographically close (for "loan" words) languages.

People need to remember that the pronunciations that are found in Strongs or BDB come from the traditional sources. They are not an independent source of information. Also, the pronunciation of the consonants themselves come from the tradition. If you rejection tradition, you have practically no knowledge of the pronunciation at all.

Now with regard to the name Y'hoshua, the spelling is yod-hei-vav-shin-ayin or less frequently yod-hei-vav-shin-vav-ayin. The "vav" between the "hei" and "shin" has to be pronounced. The only question is whether it is pronounced as a consonant "v" or it is an indicator of an "o" or "u" (this is called a mother of reading). Tradition says that the "vav" is pronounced as "o". This is indicated by a "kholam" pointing on the "vav". If one rejects the tradition one still has to pronounce the "vav" some way. the conclusion is that there is no way that yod-hei-vav-shin-(vav)-ayin can be pronounced "Yahshua". The shortened form (attested to in scripture) drops out the whole syllable hei-vav leaving yod-shin-vav-ayin. Now there is no "hei" between the "yod" and "shin" so there is no source of the "h" sound. That leaves us with the choice of "Y'hoshua" or "Yeshua". "Yeshua" is the later Hebrew and Aramaic form.

Finally with regard to pronunciation, just because yod-hei is pronounced as "Yah" when it stands alone or appears at the end of a word is no indication that it is pronounced that way at the beginning of a word. It is a feature of Hebrew to shorten vowels at the beginning of a word and lengthen vowels at the end. Consisider the common word "melekh" (king), which has the accent on the 1st syllable. The plural is "m'lakhim" with the accent on the last syllable. With the accent shift, the first vowel is shortened to nothing more than a transition sound (sh'va) between the "m" and "l" and the second vowel switched from "e" to "a". Also in unpointed text "melekh" (king), "malakh" (he ruled), and "Molekh" (pagan idol) are spelled exactly the same, mem-lamed-khaf. One has to know the rules of grammar in order to know how to pronounce them correctly. These are things that become "second nature" when one speaks the language (or tries to), but are not so obvious to someome who only looks up words in Strongs or BDB.

I truly believe that if scribes intended to hide a pronunciation, they could have. And if they hid the pronunciation, no 20th century English speaking American is going to figure out the true pronunciation by comparing words in Strongs. That's just my opinion.

If I understand correctly, the reason people use the name "Yahshua" is because they want the name "Yah" included in shem haMashiakh. Now "Yah" is the transliteration of the Hebrew yod-hei. The "a" included in that transliteration itself comes from the "tradition" that is questioned when it supports a pronunciation like "Y'hoshua" or "Yeshua". I don't see how this is consistent.

The names "Yahushua" or "Yahoshua" can be supported by the consonantal text although the vowels are not traditional. I can only try to make this philosophical point that Hebrew is a language that is much different from English. It is a Semitic language, which is an entirely different branch of languages from the Indo-European branch of which English is a part. Thus, what seems right or wrong, correct or incorrect to an American English speaker is not necessarily so to a Hebrew speaker. I would submit that the vowel changes (in for example, Y'hoshua) are natural to a Hebrew speaker.

B'rakhot b'shem Yeshua

ThePhysicist

[This message has been edited by ThePhysicist (edited 06-15-2000).]

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ThePhysicist

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posted 06-15-2000 05:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ThePhysicist     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Shalom

The following is part of a reply on 04-08-00 from the "Questions and Translation" thread. I thought it might have some relevance as backgroud material.

Hebrew was originally written with consonants only. The reader had to supply the consonants based on the context (Note that is is physically impossible to pronounce a string of ONLY consonants, you have to supply vowels to pronounce it.). Supplying vowels in Hebrew is not as difficult as English analogies might lead one to believe. In English, it is frequently pointed out that the consonants "bt" could correspond to either: "bat", "bit", "bet", "but", or "boat". But in Hebrew the consonants GENERALLY (you always need to allow for exceptions!) indicate the general meaning and the vowels indicate the grammatical use. For example the consonants mem-lamed-khaf can either represent "melekh" (king) or "malakh" (he ruled). The two meanings are related and context can usually indicate which is intended.

Because of the difficulty of reading a purely consonantal text, the scribes BEFORE the time of Yeshua started to use certain consonants to indicate the presence of a long vowel. This was an additional use for these consonants, they still had their previous use as constants too. The scribes chose vav to represent the "o" or "u" sounds and the yod to represent long "a","e", and "i" sounds. These vavs and yods are called "the mothers of reading". For reasons I don't currently understand, the use of the yod became a "standard fixture" and the presence or absence slightly changes the pronunciation of the vowel. But the use of the vav is optional and does not affect the pronunciation. There are occurrences in the Tanakh where the same word is spelled with and without the vav. In cases like this, it is possible that a dictionary might list only one of the spellings. I think (?) if you read the full entry in BDB you will find all the spellings. One word I know for sure is spelled two ways is Y'hoshu'a (Joshua). It is spelled either yod-hei-vav-shin-ayin or yod-hei-vav-shin-vav-ayin. In the latter spelling, the second vav represents the "u" sound.

In the 9th or 10th century C.E., after Hebrew ceased to be a spoken language the vowels points were added so that readers could properly read the text. The "official" or "Kosher" Torah scrolls don't have points but "study scrolls" do. The points were added above, below, and in the consonants so as not to alter the consonants themselves, which are considered sacred.

Added note on 04-12-00
The latin and hence scholarly term that you may see in some books for "mothers of reading" is "matres lectionis" (singular, mater lectionis).

One example of where the yod is optional is in the Biblical spelling of "Y'rushalayim". The common spelling is yod-reish-vav-shin-lamed-mem but there are a few (5 I believe) occurrences of yod-reish-vav-shin-lamed-yod-mem. The first spelling creates an interesting twist in the pointed text. The mem receives a vowel point which is pronounced BEFORE the mem. In ordinary text the only time that a vowel is pronounced before its consonant is in the case of a final hei, khet or ayin. The modern Hebrew spelling is with the yod-mem ending.

I included the above material because it deals with the use of certain letters as indicators of vowels, which I believe causes confusion for some people. There is another letter that is frequently used as a matre and that is the final hei, which frequently indicates a stressed final "a" or "e" sound. In this case the hei is silent. This is frequently used for the feminine form of nouns.

For example:

dod (dalet-vav-dalet) = uncle
dodah (dalet-vav-dalet-hei) = aunt

The letters alef and ayin are usually said to be silent or to be "stops". To avoid confusion for English speakers, they probably should be thought of as "place holders" where a vowel can be inserted if the grammar requires.

With all of that said, why is the vav between the hei and shin in yod-hei-vav-shin-(vav)-ayin not pronounced by some people? My answer is, "There is no good reason." They are apparently using the fact that there are some silent letters in Hebrew to avoid pronouncing the vav. As to how to pronounce the vav, I believe that can only be known from the tradition as reflected in the vowel points.

B'rakhot

ThePhysicist

[This message has been edited by ThePhysicist (edited 06-15-2000).]

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TheWAYne

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posted 06-15-2000 10:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TheWAYne     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Shalom All


Shalom ThePhysicist,
Thank you once again for your reply and valued information on The Name Of The Messiah.

I just found a syte that talks on how The Name ~YAHSHUA~ was first introduced into The English/American Language,
Here is a quote from the page
.............................
Quote:
But in my discussion with Wm. (Bill) Bishop, Paul Penn a Jewish believer) and John Briggs, it seems that John Briggs and Paul Penn were the FIRST to pronounce and use the Name Yahshua, later Bill Bishop and Squire LaRue Cessna used it. But according to Bill Bishop and Paul Penn, John Briggs was considered FOUNDER of the Name Yahshua, especially. My information shows that John Briggs and Paul Penn met at A. B. Traina's in New Jersey in 1936 and John Briggs told Paul Penn that he privately prayed in the NAME "YAHSHUA". And in December of the same year Bill Bishop accepted the Name "Yahshua" from John Briggs, also in the same year and month Bill Bishop rented a church for 3 months so they could preach THE NAME.
It seems that Bill Bishop was really the FIRST to go out and evangelize in the NAME Yahshua and that John Briggs really started or continued on in earnest to preach THE NAME, Feb. 13, 1937.

Honor to whom honor is due. From the information I could gather, I feel John Briggs and Paul Penn should be given the honor of having started people to thinking on the Name, YAHSHUA. Elder Wm. (Bill) Bishop FIRST, together with John Briggs and Paul Penn, later joined by Squire LaRue Cessna, should be given the honor of being the FIRST to EVANGELIZE in the NAME "YAHSHUA" in the USA.
unquote
............................
Ps...to read this page in full you can find it at: http://qumran.com/sacrednames/snhist.htm


WOW!
This is very interesting and a real eye opener to someone like myself who has in past proclaimed The Name ~Yahshua~
I just wonder how many others out there who proclaim The Name ~Yahshua~ actual are aware of how The Name originated !

You see while I have been proclaiming The Name Yahshua as The Name Of The Messiah a thought came to my mind every time i read any writtings by people associated with The Messianic Jews or Hebrew Speaking Jews ect,
~the thought was~,`Why would they be wrong in proclaming Y`hoshua or Yeshua, iff anyone would know the correct spelling sureley it would be the people whome actualy speak that language, it just seems the most commonsence aproach to varifting the correct Name/spelling/pronounciation of The Son

So this is why i started this topic for Iam truely at a crossroad at the moment and eager for TRUTH, Through Time Prayer and study I hope to fully be convinced as to The correct Spelling/pronounciation Of The Sons Name

This is a most interesting journey for myself and one i must take, and humbling to say the least, and I thank You Physicist and OldShepherd for your help on this issue

O just one more thing while I remeber is YAHOSHUA or YAHUSHUA ok to use according to Hebrew Grammer or only Y`hoshua ~A~?


Blessing Always
WAYne

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simpleman

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posted 06-15-2000 10:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for simpleman   Click Here to Email simpleman     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Shalom Wayne,

I posted this on the true faith forum but I thought you might be interested over here too.


I saw this on a web site (totheends.com) and thought it might add to the conversation.
I did not change the words/names at all because I didn't write this and I figured I shouldn't change it. I hope nobody is offended.

_____________________________________________

Yeshua is the hidden name of the Messiah that appears in many crucial Messianic prophecies. For example: Exo. 14:13 says, "Stand strong and see the yeshuah of the LORD" (shortly before the Angel of God appears, a pre-incarnation appearance of Jesus in vs. 19); the Messianic prophey of Isa. 52:7 says, "How lovely on the mountains are the feet of him who brings good news…who announces yeshuah." The Messianic theme continues in Isa. 52:10, which says, "The LORD has bared his holy arm in the sight of all the Gentiles, that all the ends of the earth may see the yeshuah of our God." The Messianic prophecy of Isa. 49:6 says, "And I have made you a light to the nations, to be my yeshuah to the end of the earth." Isaiah 12 is another section: "God is my yeshuah, I will trust and not be afraid, for the YAH [short for YAVH] of YAVH is my strength and song, and he has become my yeshuah."
_____________________________________________


Blessings,
Simpleman

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TheWAYne

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posted 06-16-2000 09:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TheWAYne     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Shalom All

Shalom Simpleman,
Thanks for the information on The Sons Name,
and thankyou ThePhysicist and OldShepherd for the information/help on this Issue thus far.

heres a syte declairing The Sons Name, It sounds similar to the Way that it has been posted on here at present

____________________________________________
Quote:
The Name which is above every other name! At this Name every knee shall bow, of those in heaven, those on the earth and those under the earth and every tongue shall confess that YEHOSHUA Messiah is Master.
Phil 2:9-10
The Name consists of Y H W Sh (silent consonant). The name is pronounced as YEHOSHUA or the shortened form YESHUA. The shortened form YESHUA is a common noun meaning deliverance or salvation. Scholars are uncertain whether the disguising of the name also applied here. Remember that the vowel system was only invented 500 years after Christ.
JOH 17:11-12 According to these verses one would expect to see the Father's Name or at least the abbreviated form in the Messiah's Name.
According to OHOL YAOHUSHUA the correct and accurate Name of the Messiah is: YAOHUSHUA (pronounced: "yao-hoo-shua" - accented on the second syllable, with the vowel of the first syllable sounding like the vowel in the English word "how"). The Name "Yaohushua" means YAOHU'S POWER TO SAVE!.
The name JESUS is derived from the Greek word IESOUS.

Why was this done?
The only explanation for this is that this substitution was done to make the Gospel more acceptable to the gentile nations who spoke mainly Greek at that time. Remember that these original names are Jewish and that the Jews have always been a despised nation.

The restoration of the Name is promised and has not been fulfilled:-
ZEPH 3:9
ZECH 13:9
ISA 52:6
JOEL 2:26
EZE 39:7
HOS 2:16-17
JER 16:21
JOH 17:26
JOH 12:28

We see therefore that in the end time the Father will restore His Name as he prepares the Bride and is therefore part of the final reformation in the church.

The prophecies as to the revelation of His Name must be fulfilled. Apart from the shortened forms YAH or YAHU the Heavenly Father has only one full memorial name or covenant Name. His Name cannot have many forms for ZECH 14:9 says that His Name will be one.

unquote. ____________________________________________

I`ll be interested to see what You all think of this
the complete writtings can be found at: http://www.cw.co.za/explore/exname.htm


I have not seen any one comment in support of The Name ~YAHSHUA~ so far! why is this?
If You belive it is truely The Sons Name, I`d like to see why and iff it is not well I can understand why you would`t post on here.

I dont mean to stir the pot so to speak I am really interested to see both sides.
I notice other Forms of The Sons Name such as Y`shua,Yaohoshua,Yahweshua, ect ect
If you have any information as to why you call on any other Names not mentioned or that has been and like to support another i`d love to hear from you.

Also I thought Yeshua ment ~Salvation~
Doesn`t The Sons Name Proclaim That ~YHWH Is Salvation~?
this is why Ive been a little stuck on the Name YAHshua,YAHUshua,YAHOshua,YHWshua ect ..
because Ive been under the impression That The Son Has The Fathers Name in it as like when I read The Letters(Joshua/Johoshua) In Hebrew to read YHWshua..

well i must get back to study and prayer on This Issue.

Your comments on this are most welcome And Iam still rereading and searching into this,
thankyou for your time and patience.


Blessings Always
WAYne
http://bucknell.edu/~rbeard/diction3.html


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EliYah

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posted 06-17-2000 12:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for EliYah   Click Here to Email EliYah     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
TheWAYne and others,

I believe "Yahshua" is an english contraction of "Yahushua". It is true that in Hebrew, this contraction does not exist. However, the shortening of "Yahu" to "Yah" is very common in Hebrew (although admittedly, not in prefixes).

Here are some scriptures that show the "Branch" to be the future Messiah

Jeremiah 33:15-AV In those days, and at that time, will I cause the BRANCH of righteousness to grow up to David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.
16-AV In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell in safety: and this [is the name] by which she shall be called, Yahweh our righteousness.
Isaiah 11:1-AV And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a BRANCH shall grow out of his roots:
2-AV And the spirit of Yahweh shall rest upon him, (see John 1:32) the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel andmight, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Yahweh;
3-AV And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of Yahweh: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4-AV But with righteousness shall he judge the poor,and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5-AV And righteousness shall be the belt of his loins,and faithfulness the belt of his reins.
Jeremiah 23:2-AV Therefore thus saith Yahweh Elohim of Israel against the shepherds that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith Yahweh.
3-AV And I will gather the remnant of my flock from all countries where I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.
4-AV And I will set shepherds over them who shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith Yahweh.
5-AV Behold, the days come, saith Yahweh, that I will raise to David a righteous BRANCH, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice upon theearth.
6-AV In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israelshall dwell in safety: and this [is] his name by which he shall be called, YAHWEH OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
7-AV Therefore, behold, the days come, saith Yahweh, that they shall no more say, Yahweh liveth, who brough tthe children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
8-AV But, Yahweh liveth, who brought and who led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries where I have driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.
Zechariah 3:8-AV Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they [are] men wondered at:for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.

Here is Yahushua's name prophesied
Zechariah 6:9-AV And the word of Yahweh came to me, saying, 10-AV Take of [them of] the captivity, [even] ofHeldai, of Tobijah, and of Jedaiah, who are come from Babylon, and come thou the same day, and go into the house of Josiah the son of Zephaniah; 11-AV Then take silver and gold, and make crowns, and set [them] upon the head of Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest;

Joshua is pronounced Yahushua in the original Hebrew and in this text we have the letters , that is Yod, He, Waw, Shin, Ayin in Hebrew. This is the same way it is found 194 times in the Hebrew Masoretic text all throughout scripture. This is important to know because there is a key thing said about this name in the next verse:
Zechariah 6:12-AV And speak to him, saying, Thus speaketh Yahweh of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of Yahweh:

So the Scripture is saying: "Behold (or look) the man (Yahushua) whose NAME () is the BRANCH"

Therefore the current High Priest of Judah in the days of Zechariah Joshua (Yahshua) has the name of the "BRANCH" or the coming Messiah.

Therefore the current High Priest of Judah in the days of Zechariah Joshua (Yahshua) has the name of the "BRANCH" or the coming Messiah.
Concerning this name being shortened to "Yeshua" in the book of Ezra (in Aramaic), we find many other names that also were changed, perhaps to reflect the Aramaic dialect. In Aramaic, the accent is often placed on the last syllable, the first vowel disappearing. For instance, the Father of Yahushua the High Priest in Zechariah 6 is changed from Yod, Heh, Waw, Tzadik, Dalet, Qof (Pronounced Yahutsadak) to Yod, Waw, Tzadik, Dalet, Qof (Said to be pronounced Yotsadak) in Nehemiah 12:26. In both cases, the name of the Father is altered. The same is true of other transliterations. The greek "Iesous" does not accurately convey the name of the Father (or even the Son for that matter). All lexicons and most scholars that I am aware of say this is derived from "Yahushua" (3091), not "Yeshua"(3442). Both the Aramaic and Greek are derived from the Hebrew original.


The following is evidence for the Messiah's name being "Yahushua", or the same name as the Son of Nun:

* This high priest's name in Zechariah 6.

* When the children of Israel were baptized into the red sea, they would say "YAH..has become my salvation" (Ex. 15:2) and centuries later the Messiah would be named "Yahushua", meaning "Yahweh, He is salvation" and would save them upon baptism.

* Moshe renamed Hoshea (similar to Yeshua in meaning), Son of Nun to "Yahushua" and it was "Yahushua" who led the children of Israel into the promised land just as our Messiah will lead us into the eternal promised land.

* Yahushua said "I come in my Father's name" and the Father's name happens to be within "Yahushua".

* John the Baptist's relatives were expecting the parents to name him after HIS father (a rare custom). Could it be because Yahushua would be named after His Father?

* The Messiah said to baptize "in the name of the Father..." and they all baptized in a version of the Son's name "Yahushua" which contains the name of the Father.

* "Yahweh" is the commanded name for salvation (Joel 2:32) and we also find the Father's name in "Yahushua" which can be also called upon for salvation (Acts 4:12).

------------------
With love in His service,

EliYah

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TheWAYne

Posts: 202
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posted 06-20-2000 10:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TheWAYne     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Shalom All

Shalom EliYah, Thanks for the reply regarding The Sons Name.

________________________________________________________________________________
Quote.(EliYah)
Yod, He, Waw, Shin, Ayin in Hebrew. This is the same way it is found 194 times in the Hebrew Masoretic text all throughout scripture. This is important to know because there is a key thing said about this name in the next verse:
Zechariah 6:12-AV And speak to him, saying, Thus speaketh Yahweh of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of Yahweh

Unquote_______________________________________________________

I understand That The Sons Name is The Same as Joshua/Jahoshua Son of Nun as The new Testiment Interlinear Translation reveal this especialy in Acts 7:45.....

YHWshua/ Yod, He, Waw, Shin, Ayin

why do people turn The ~W~ into a ~U~or an ~O~?
YAHO(W)ZABAD....http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/strongs/960958912.html
YAHO(W)ZADAK...http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/strongs/960959103.html
YAHO(W)AHAZ...http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/strongs/960959230.html
YAHO(W)ASH...http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/strongs/960959317.html
YAHO(W)HANAN...http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/strongs/960959463.html

yet when The Fathers Name YHWH
Is spelt it stays as a ~W~(some a ~V~ some a ~U~)!

And why do some use the short version YAHshua and Miss out The ~W~ compleatly?


I do understant The Son comming In The Name Of The Father yet when I look into fo The Name YAHshua I see it was only made up/ written as That Name since the 1930`s as I have quoted already in a previous reply>
___________________________________________________________________Quote
it seems that John Briggs and Paul Penn were the FIRST to pronounce and use the Name Yahshua, later Bill Bishop and Squire LaRue Cessna used it. But according to Bill Bishop and Paul Penn, John Briggs was considered FOUNDER of the Name Yahshua, especially. My information shows that John Briggs and Paul Penn met at A. B. Traina's in New Jersey in 1936 and John Briggs told Paul Penn that he privately prayed in the NAME "YAHSHUA". And in December of the same year Bill Bishop accepted the Name "Yahshua" from John Briggs, also in the same year and month Bill Bishop rented a church for 3 months so they could preach THE NAME.
It seems that Bill Bishop was really the FIRST to go out and evangelize in the NAME Yahshua and that John Briggs really started or continued on in earnest to preach THE NAME, Feb. 13, 1937.
Honor to whom honor is due. From the information I could gather, I feel John Briggs and Paul Penn should be given the honor of having started people to thinking on the Name, YAHSHUA.
Unquote
___________________________________________________________________


We are told that This Is The Name(YAHshua) people used to call upon The Messiah
during The Time The Son walked the earth and is The Name we are to Use today!
how can this be iff it only originated in The 1930`s ?

Are all The Hebrew Speaking people wrong by proclaiming Yeshua or Y`hoshua. ?
seems there is even confusion there as Ive heard some say its Y`shua,Yeshu, and the above

The same applies To Yahushua, Yahshua, Yahoshua,Yaohoshuah ect ect

Why all these Names?
When The Scriptures proclaim in Acts 4:12 "Furthermore, There is no Salvation in anyone else, For there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."(nwtc)

I look forward to any replies on This,


Blessings Always
Shalom
WAYne

John 17:3
http://bucknell.edu/~rbeard/diction3.html http://www.homestead.com/learnhebrew/dict.html

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