quote:

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Originally posted by wannabe:
This hebrew verb meaning many of things all compared to or equal with 'to become' He is the one who is.

Many People who say "I am that I am", is this not just an
"english translation/confusion" as to what SHOULD be written?

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Who else would really care and listen and have an understanding other than the people coming to this forum?

This is another situation where it is better to deffer to a Hebrew Lexicion.

Hay-Yod-Hay or "hayah" is a Lamed"Hay verb 3rd singular person past tense qal meaning "he was." Aleph-Hay-Yod-Hay or "Ehyeh" is the 1st person singular future tense Qal of Hay-Yod-Hay. "Ehyeh" means "I will be." Thus "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh" or as it could be rendered in Yemenite dialect "Ahyah Ashar Ahyah" means "I will be that/who I will be." This can also be rendered in a present tense "I exist as I exist" or something similar. There are several ways this can be translated. The equivalent Atid (Future Tense) statement of "hayah" is "He will be" from Hay-Waw-Hay is "yihyeh."

The Hebrew text of the Tanahh doesn't use present tense in the way that modern Hebrew has it now, so this is why future tense, in an imperfect form is used, and when translated can be translated as present and future because the action can be continuous.

The only reason that as you mentioned, "things are not adding up," is because you need to deffer to a Hebrew text of the Tanahh and a Hebrew Lexicion. This is basics of verb conjigations as I mentioned in the other thread. A Hebrew verb's meaning, structure and vowels all can change dramatically with a different verb conjigation. It can also be in the perfect or imperfect state. These are all grammer issues. Just like the Name of Elohim, blessed is He, is based off of verb conjigation of Hay-Waw-Hay. These things are best studied and understood in Hebrew rather than English.

As to a translation, translators in most cases, do the best they can with the audiance they have. Hebrew grammer has been explained many times on this site, and most often it confuses many people and goes over their head because they haven't studied Hebrew. So imagine what a translator would have to do to get a person to see what a person knowledgeable of Hebrew sees. That would be literally impossible (Especially when one gets in the 2nd person "you" since Hebrew has no it things are masculine or feminane). No translation, with the exception of the translation from Hebrew to Aramaic, can give you what you are searching for. Your best bet is to begin to study the Hebrew language with a Hebrew text. Otherwise these things will be hidden from you.

If you acquire a book on Biblical Hebrew and Grammer, and a Hebrew Lexicion you will be able to not be confused. Look at the forum where I listed at least 5 or six books that can help you. You will also not have to rely on a translator other than yourself. May Elohim bless.

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Eloah immakhem,

Shimson bar-Tzadoq

Wannabe, Brother get out of that church! Find brethren that keep
Sabbath first of all. Then if they are not keeping Torah, keep it
yourself. If they are not keeping Sabbath and are calling themselves
brethren, show them that you do keep Sabbath.

If you are not at this point yet, I wonder why?

Welcome back!
And it is good to see some respect shown to “Elohym”.
“Name of Elohim, blessed is He”
If only the rest of the group could show some repect to “His” NAME!
For HIS Name is Holy.

quote:

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Originally posted by AHAVAH:
Shimson bar-Tzadoq

Welcome back!
And it is good to see some respect shown to “Elohym”.
“Name of Elohim, blessed is He”
If only the rest of the group could show some repect to “His” NAME!
For HIS Name is Holy.

,

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Shalom Ahavah,

Thank you for your kind words, and may Elohim, blessed is He, be praised. I can't really say I am back per say. I at this point feel that by responding to grammer issues and issues concerning my fellow Jews only I am kind of closing loose ends for the moment.

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Eloah immakhem,

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quote:

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Originally posted by Shimson bar-Tzadoq:
Hay-Yod-Hay or "hayah" is a Lamed"Hay verb 3rd singular person past tense qal meaning "he was." Aleph-Hay-Yod-Hay or "Ehyeh" is the 1st person singular future tense Qal of Hay-Yod-Hay. "Ehyeh" means "I will be." Thus "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh" or as it could be rendered in Yemenite dialect "Ahyah Ashar Ahyah" means "I will be that/who I will be." This can also be rendered in a present tense "I exist as I exist" or something similar. There are several ways this can be translated. The equivalent Atid (Future Tense) statement of "hayah" is "He will be" from Hay-Waw-Hay is "yihyeh."

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..Unger's Bible Dictionary, Merrill F. Unger, 1957, Moody Press, Chicago, pp. 1177, says:

Yahweh(ya'we). The Hebrew tetragrammaton (YHWH) traditionally pronounced Jehovah (q. v.) is now known to be correctly vocalized yahwe. New inscriptional evidence from the second and first millennia B. C. point toward this fact. The old view of Le Clerc, modernly propounded by Paul Haupt and developed by W. F. Albright, has commended itself in the light of the phonetic development and grammatical evidence of increased knowledge of Northwest Semitic and kindred tongues. This thesis holds Yahwe to be originally a finite causative verb from the Northwest Semitic root hwy "to be, to come into being," so that the divine name would mean "he causes to be, or exist," i. e., "he creates." Amorite personal names after 2,000 B. C. lend support to the Haupt Albright view, demonstrating that the employment of the causative stem yahwe "he creates" was in vogue in the linguistic background of early Hebrew.

......................BTW i enjoyed your listing of Hebraic & Aramaic reference materials. I heartily concur with your assessment. Reading it in Hebrew , offers insights that do not translate well into english.

To you list of reference books , may I add :

The Hebraic Tongue Restored by Fabre D'Olivet
The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament by Kittel and Bromily
Hebrew Syntax by A,B, Davidson (1912)
The Tittled Bible , compiled by Mosheh Gaster

Shalom !~
Lavi Chagyah

quote:

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Originally posted by ThreshingFloor:

I can't talk about these important issues at a "church", I would be lauhged at right out the door.

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Wannabe, Brother get out of that church! Find brethren that keep
Sabbath first of all. Then if they are not keeping Torah, keep it
yourself. If they are not keeping Sabbath and are calling themselves
brethren, show them that you do keep Sabbath.

If you are not at this point yet, I wonder why?

[/B][/QUOTE]

Greetings Threshing, what I meant was if I tried to sit at a church and try to discuss things of this nature, I don't think "church people" would really care.
I do not go to church.

Ahavah, you talk about showing respect to the Almighty's name, and yet you continue to show whether out of "ignorance" or "self satisfaction" to continue misrepresenting the proper vocalized "oo" (W)by removing it and putting the
" Modern Germanic V" in its place. This is one of the MAJOR stumbling blocks that confuses people. They do not know the "V" symbol you use is actually the Geek Vowel, and I'm not sure if you know that either.

Shlomoh,
We elle Shemoth 3:14 "God" said to Moshe, I am who He is'. 'This is what you are to say to the Israelites,...

Later on He tells Moshe to say that He is YHWH and He is to be INVOKED for all generations to come.

Shlomoh, my question would be what did He REALLY say before it was altered into an "Enlish meaning" with "I am who He is"? because this is not making sense and people think this English meaning is His name.

That would be like saying "since Moshe means to draw out, we'll remove 'Moshe' and use "to draw out" to call on Moshe"!
Shlomoh, are you following what I am saying?
Thanks for your help.

quote:

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Originally posted by wannabe:

Shlomoh,
We elle Shemoth 3:14 "God" said to Moshe, I am who He is'. 'This is what you are to say to the Israelites,...

Later on He tells Moshe to say that He is YHWH and He is to be INVOKED for all generations to come.

Shlomoh, my question would be what did He REALLY say before it was altered into an "Enlish meaning" with "I am who He is"? because this is not making sense and people think this English meaning is His name.

That would be like saying "since Moshe means to draw out, we'll remove 'Moshe' and use "to draw out" to call on Moshe"!
Shlomoh, are you following what I am saying?
Thanks for your help.

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I am not sure if you meant this question for Slomoh or me, but if you go to the following link you will see in Hebrew what it says.

http://bible.ort.org/books/torahd5.asp?action=displaypage&book=2&chapter=3&verse=14&portion=13

In the Masorite Text what was said in Shemoth 3:14 was "Waiyomer koh tomar livnei Yisrael, Ehyeh Shelahhni aleikhem.." This of course would have a different pronounciation in Yemenite Jewish pronunciation and in Samaritan, but only slightly. As far as altering into Enlgish, Ehyeh means "I will be" for the reasons I mentioned above.

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Eloah immakhem,

"....Ahavah, you talk about showing respect to the Almighty's name, and yet you continue to show whether out of "ignorance" or "self satisfaction" to continue misrepresenting the proper vocalized "oo" (W)by removing it and putting the
" Modern Germanic V" in its place. This is one of the MAJOR stumbling blocks that confuses people. They do not know the "V" symbol you use is actually the Geek Vowel, and I'm not sure if you know that either".

quote:

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Originally posted by Roy_G_Biv:
Ummm...do you really have to bicker over 'v' or 'w'? I know it wasn't malicious, but it seems a little, how do you say, trivial?

Sorry for butting in...

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Roy, people make big issues over things that are meaningless.

The beginning of all knowledge is understanding and knowing what His name is.

As we try to get closer to the proper "vocalization" of His name, there are going to be people that simply "don't care".

And His name is the most important issue in the entire "Bible"!