posted 04-16-2002 08:53 AM            

Please don't be offended if I critique what you said. The edges of the beard are the part that you cut off when you trim it thus marring the corners, like when you cut the edges of the field to harvest it. I will look like whatever Yahueh wants me to look like. Of course I will wash and keep clean so I don't look like a homeless person. Reason by the Ruach and not by societies standards and you will do a better job of interpreting the words of Yahueh.By the way Long hair refers to the hair on the top of your head if you would just study it a little further.

T4T,

I have never beat my wife, nor have I beaten up on you regardless of what you say and acuse me of. You by cutting off your beard completely show your rebellion against the things of Yahueh including the clear command of Yahueh even if man tries to obscure it's meaning with their translations. I struggled with this too when I saw that I needed to grow a beard and side locks from researching the word of Yahueh for which I found two stone witnesses in archeology. The Ruach of Yahueh in me said to me " Satan's servants the rock stars have their wierd hairdos, so why are you afraid to do what I ask of you" I said "Yes Yahueh not my will but thine be done."

I don't understand why obeying the word of Yahueh is so hard only when we submit to man's standards and not the will of Yahueh do we have this problem.

I know men that have severe cowlick in thier beard and do not grow it for this reason. I don't presume to judge someone which because of a medical or disfigurement decides to shave but Yahueh tells us too not mar our beards period by telling us not to cut the edges of it under normal conditions not dealing with all the exceptions.

posted 04-16-2002 09:28 AM         

quote:

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Originally posted by david_ben_yacob:
I have never beat my wife, nor have I beaten up on you regardless of what you say and acuse me of.

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And I haven't used "convoluted reasoning".

You have called me names and made accusations. The record is clearly there. As I have indicated I will turn the cheek because I do believe that you are a brother.

But as to what you are saying about beards... I don't understand you.

quote:

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Yahueh tells us too not mar our beards period by telling us not to cut the edges of it under normal conditions not dealing with all the exceptions.

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Under normal conditions? Not dealing with all the exceptions? Where is THAT in the scripture?

You see, this is what is so confusing. Both you and servant holy-man claim you only go by the scriptures and the Ruach, yet you both make conflicting statements. YHWH nor His Ruach are authors of confusion. Do you really think the Ruach would tell the holy-man one thing and tell you another?

Amazingly, servant holy-man agrees with me on the beard issue. He said:

quote:

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I have continued to teach that Scripture instructs how a beard is to be grown if you grow a beard.

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He says HE has the Ruach and the scriptures, and says the scripture instructs how a beard is to be grown IF YOU GROW A BEARD. I'm in agreement with this but you aren't.

You say YOU have the Ruach and the scriptures, and say that if I don't grow a beard I am in rebellion (there was another accusation by the way). You must certainly now believe that if I am in rebellion for not wearing a beard, servant holy-man is likewise in rebellion for teaching this principle. You must admit that much, no?

So which one of you truly has the guidance of the Ruach?

Furthermore you confuse me because you do a flip flop and say that the scriptures have exceptions for abnormal conditions.

I just can't take much more of these "convoluted reasonings"!

posted 04-16-2002 11:17 AM            

You can do whatever you want, David. It is not my place to condemn anyone for anything, let alone cross-dressing.

And then David said, "We are to live by every word of Yahueh properly divided and interpreted according to the Ruach Kadosh. There is no wall anymor between Gentiles and Israel according to Ephesians 2 and Romans 9-11. Quit ressurecting it and distorting the Word of Yahueh."
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Yes, and the "properly divided and interpreted" seems to be the tricky part for most. The "wall" between Jews and Gentiles was precisely the "law of Moses" (including the regulations of beards, wearing tassles, and many other things). It separated these two peoples because the Jews judged the Gentiles as "inferior" for not keeping the law, and the Gentiles resented the Jews because they DID keep the law.

That wall of separation has been torn down, but apparently it is you who wishes to resurrect it by insisting that it must be obeyed. Are you trying to be like the "certain men of Jerusalem" who attempted to force Gentiles to obey the law of Moses? All of the "law of commandments contained in ordinances" has been abolished. In so doing, Messiah has made of two groups "one new man". Thus, there is neither Jew nor Greek, but all are one in Messiah. So neither Jew nor Gentile must abide by the "law of commandments contained in ordinances". All believers are to obey Yahweh's Ten Commandments, the Two Great Commandments, and the commandments and ordinances of the New Covenant.

Under these ordinances of the New Covenant, we are clearly told that no man who is "effeminate" is acceptable in the ecclesia, nor is a woman who tries to behave as a man. So it doesn't matter when the statute against cross-dressing came in for the Old Covenant. It is a regulation of the New Covenant, and therefore must be obeyed by New Covenant believers.

posted 04-16-2002 11:33 AM            

LOL! I guess this just wooshed right over the heads of some. The classic self-incrimination question. If you answer "yes" you are supposedly admitting to have been guilty at some time in the past, if you answer "no", you are admitting to still being guilty of it. As I said in another post, humor and sarcasm are wasted on some people.

posted 04-16-2002 05:11 PM            

The law of Moshe commonly refered to by Yahueh as the Law of Yahueh is not the wall seperating Israel from other nations. It is the record of our sins and the death warrent sworn out against Israel and the other nations that violate this law. This is what has seperated us from Yahueh and each other. The tassels, beards and the whole practical instruction of Yahueh does not belong to Israel or to any of the nations but to Yahueh. If you are born again you become Israel or a prince or princess of El. You become Yahudah or praisers of Yahueh too !!!
It is not a fleshly/carnel thing of being born as a human in a certain nation but the spiritual regeneration that takes place when one is born of the water and the Spirit. Over the process of time when one is born of the Spirit they grow up and mature. No a babe doesn't always do all the instructions just as a child doesn't but in the maturing process to full adulthood we should all learn all the instructions of our Father and what it takes to live in His house, therefore when we pick and choose we are just showing we are not mature enough to understand that we need to want to learn and do all that Our Father would like for us to do. Some develop rebellion like Satan's and want to become legalist only doing what they think is required instead of lovingly trying to please the Father in all ways not being nitpicky and choosing to live on the edge of being kick out all the time. This is the root of the problem with those which divide the instructions into section for only Israel and only for the nations. If the righteous scarcely be saved where shall the sinner and the unrighteous appear?

posted 04-17-2002 09:35 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Male':
T4T said, "Did you stop beating your wife?"
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LOL! I guess this just wooshed right over the heads of some. The classic self-incrimination question. If you answer "yes" you are supposedly admitting to have been guilty at some time in the past, if you answer "no", you are admitting to still being guilty of it. As I said in another post, humor and sarcasm are wasted on some people.

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Be ye therefore followers of Elohim, as dear children; And walk in love, as Mashiach also hath loved us, and hath given Himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to Elohim for a sweetsmelling savour. BUT fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; NEITHER filthiness, NOR foolish talking, NOR jesting, which are not convenient ...

Interesting company that foolish talkers and jesters are found in ...

quote:

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Thus saith YahShua:
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

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posted 04-17-2002 11:02 AM            

You seem to be mixing up your Scriptural references. The "record of our sins and the death warrant sworn out against Israel" is referred to in Colossians 2:14, where Paul states that Yahshua blotted out this record by nailing it to the pole. The "middle wall of partition", however, is described in Ephesians 2. This is the wall that separated Jew from Gentile. This wall - the source of enmity between the two - is specifically stated by Paul to be "the law of commandments contained in ordinances" (vs 15). This has been abolished by Yahshua, so that there is no longer a wall of separation between the two peoples, but "one new man".

Then David said, "It is not a fleshly/carnel thing of being born as a human in a certain nation but the spiritual regeneration that takes place when one is born of the water and the Spirit. Over the process of time when one is born of the Spirit they grow up and mature. No a babe doesn't always do all the instructions just as a child doesn't but in the maturing process to full adulthood we should all learn all the instructions of our Father and what it takes to live in His house, therefore when we pick and choose we are just showing we are not mature enough to understand that we need to want to learn and do all that Our Father would like for us to do. Some develop rebellion like Satan's and want to become legalist only doing what they think is required instead of lovingly trying to please the Father in all ways not being nitpicky and choosing to live on the edge of being kick out all the time. This is the root of the problem with those which divide the instructions into section for only Israel and only for the nations. If the righteous scarcely be saved where shall the sinner and the unrighteous appear?"
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I imagine the same type of reasoning was used by many of the early Jewish believers in trying to convince Gentiles to adhere to the law of Moses. The Scriptural answer, however, is very clear. There are four points of the law of Moses that must be obeyed. The Ruach and the apostles AGREED that there is no further burden placed on the Gentiles. Apparently you choose to disagree. Of course, those who disagreed on this issue were never spoken of very highly in Scripture. From "those of the circumcision" who contended with Peter for preaching the Gospel to Cornelius, to the "certain of the sect of the Pharisees" that insisted Gentiles be circumcised and adhere to the law of Moses, to the Jewish believers who pressured Peter into withdrawing from the Gentiles, this doctrine has been going around for a long time. But it has been disputed by the truth of Scripture for just as long.

posted 04-17-2002 11:21 AM            

Be ye therefore followers of Elohim, as dear children; And walk in love, as Mashiach also hath loved us, and hath given Himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to Elohim for a sweetsmelling savour. BUT fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; NEITHER filthiness, NOR foolish talking, NOR jesting, which are not convenient ...

Interesting company that foolish talkers and jesters are found in ...
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Wow, I sure wish I could be as righteous as you so I could cast judgment and condemnation on people. It must be wonderful to be so absolutely perfect. By the way, this passage admonishes against jesting that isn't convenient. But the jesting here was extremely convenient - some of you folks make it so easy! And if you're going to apply this to telling any kind of a joke, or jesting of any kind, then you must be one of the most boring, miserable and cantankerous people on the face of the earth. Of course, this would go a long way in explaining the attitude you display here.

What is interesting to me is that you are so eager to spit out condemnation that you don't even bother to see if it is appropriate, or to see if you are quoting something in context or not. The word translated as "jesting" here is eutrapelia. It means scurrilty, base humor, low jesting. In other words, telling foul jokes and using base elements for humor.

Yes, believe it or not, Yahweh's children are allowed to laugh, to tell jokes, to be amused.

posted 04-17-2002 04:41 PM            

You guys that love to negate the law of Yahueh for those of us that are grafted into Israel always seem to forget Acts 15:21 where the Gentile converts are able to go to Israel's synagogues and learn the Torah no objections from the Apostles. Eventually the Rabbis kicked out all followers of the Nazarenes so where are we to learn about Torah today ? From the Ruach Ha Kadosh as it leads us into all truth ! Remember the Psalmist said the Torah was truth !

You keep building the wall between Israel and the other nations while I get busy about my Father's business :>)

posted 04-18-2002 12:21 AM            

Jokes on someone that is sincerely trying to share the truth with you are not funny or amusing to Yahueh. Jokes only at the Adversaries expence are the only ones allowed. When you knock the truth then the Truth will have the last laugfh when your calamity comes upon you.

Laughter is a good thing like medicine if the joke is natural and not at the expence of others.

posted 04-18-2002 09:21 AM            

"You guys"? Golly, I finally made it - I'm "one of the guys". You seem to really enjoy jumping to conclusions. You see a single statement in Acts 15 saying "For Mosheh of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day", and you jump to the conclusion that Gentiles SHOULD go to the synagogies to learn the law of Moses and then obey it. Of course, this completely ignores the reason the apostles were called upon to make a decision in the first place. The answer to whether or not Gentiles had to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses (as was being taught by believers of the Pharisee sect) was "No, only these four points".

From David: "You keep building the wall between Israel and the other nations while I get busy about my Father's business :>)"
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Hmmmm. This is interesting. Scripture specifically states that the wall separating Jew from Gentile was "the law of commandments contained in ordinances", and that Yahshua abolished these laws through His sacrifice. He abolished these laws, you insist that these laws be kept. It is you who is trying to rebuild that wall after Yahshua has torn it down.

posted 04-18-2002 09:24 AM            

Wow, where can I find this fascinating information in Scripture? Believers are only allowed to make jokes at the expense of the adversary? Well, let's see, you have accused T4T and I of blasphemy, rejecting truth, being "of the devil" and "of the liar", and a host of other charges. Scripture tells me that the accuser of the brethren is the Adversary. So I guess T4T's joke was acceptable even by your unscriptural standards. By the way, I'm still waiting to see you share truth from Scripture rather than your own opinion on what Scripture means.

posted 04-18-2002 10:56 AM            

What have you been accusitory of me ? I have only been telling it like I see it from your post. When you deny the clear witness of Scripture and want to divide the anointed Body of Messiah then I do think you are being used by the adversary.

Acts 15 doesn't deal with a host of issues like sabbath , feast, murder, etc.... so I guess it is acceptable to voilate the mikvot/commands of Yahueh on these issues?!?! The early church was dealing with the Pharisee Hillel branch that said converts must shed their own blood for redemption through circumcision. The issue was circumsision in the flesh versus circumcision in the heart and mind and what the Jews today call the "oral torah" or Yahushua called the traditions of men, "law of Moshe". To be a Jew one had to follow these things in the land of Israel which the Pharisees politically controled with the Shemai branch along with the priest craft which was mostly Saducees. The Shemai Pharisee or the Saducees did not believe in converting into Judaism while the Hillel school of Phariseeism did. The Apostle pretty much followed the Hillel school as Gamaliel was a Hillel Pharisee who taught Paul before the Ruach Kadosh started to correct him in His teachings by the Spirit. They wanted the Apostles to make Nazarene Judaism under thier judgements while the Shemai sect and the Saducees openly opposed them. The point was what requirements will we use to accept converts in the very beginning and to make a statement that the blood of the Messiah alone was sufficient for cleansing from sin. The four things are drawn from the written Torah requirements of a stanger that sojourned among the Israeli in the land. Gentlies had to be clean in these four ways to join the Body of Messiah but this doesn't mean that after a while they would not be inclined to want to obey the written Torah on it's own merit. They were not to be pushed into it, but as the Ruach Kadosh writes it on thier heart Jeremiah 31:27-34.

This is what is happening here a brother is studying Torah and the rest of the Scriptures to see what will please Yahueh and has ask for clarifying on the issue of whether to trim his bread or not according to Scriptural guidelines.

You introduce the concept of only doing the least that is required and making it in by the skin of your teeth. You won't make it like that because if the righteous scarcly be saved then where shall the sinner and unrighteous appear ? In other words the one that is following that still small voice of the Ruach Kadosh and the one which argues with that voice and tries to reason away what they are seeing in Scripture being legalist shouting "I only have to do this much" will surely be lost like the servant that hid his talent was cast into outer darkness, while the other two/2 that added to their talents was given more and a place in the kingdom of Yahueh.

You are a contentious woman and have chosen to take up a fight with a servant of the Most High . You are fighting with the Most High and rejecting His counsel even though you think you do Yahueh a service. I would repent if I were you. I am nothing but He is your salvation. Time to quit arguing with Him and obey or perish.