posted 08-17-2002 11:19 AM         

well check back later
Shabbat Shalom Daniel

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posted 08-17-2002 02:07 PM         

I have a question for you. How and when do you, your spouse, your children, your servants or the stranger who does all the "roasting, cooking, and even baking" rest on the commanded day of rest?

Exodus 20 (8) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. (9) Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: (10) But the seventh day is the Sabbath of YAHWEH thy Elohim: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: (11) For in six days YAHWEH made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore YAHWEH blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The only way that you, your spouse, your children, your servants or the stranger who does all the "roasting, cooking, and even baking" could honor the fourth commandment is to do the "roasting, cooking, and even baking" on the preparation day which is on day six and not on YAHWEH'S holy Sabbath. Have you never read and learned the lesson of this scripture?

Exodus 16 (4) Then said YAHWEH unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in MY law, or no. (5) And it shall come to pass, that on the sixth day they shall prepare that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily. … (28) And YAHWEH said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep MY Commandments and MY Laws? (29) See, for that YAHWEH hath given you the Sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

posted 08-17-2002 02:55 PM         

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Originally posted by Arkie:
Shabbat shalom William.

I have a question for you. How and when do you, your spouse, your children, your servants or the stranger who does all the "roasting, cooking, and even baking" rest on the commanded day of rest?

Exodus 20 (8) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. (9) Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: (10) But the seventh day is the Sabbath of YAHWEH thy Elohim: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: (11) For in six days YAHWEH made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore YAHWEH blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The only way that you, your spouse, your children, your servants or the stranger who does all the "roasting, cooking, and even baking" could honor the fourth commandment is to do the "roasting, cooking, and even baking" on the preparation day which is on day six and not on YAHWEH'S holy Sabbath. Have you never read and learned the lesson of this scripture?

Exodus 16 (4) Then said YAHWEH unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in MY law, or no. (5) And it shall come to pass, that on the sixth day they shall prepare that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily. ? (28) And YAHWEH said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep MY Commandments and MY Laws? (29) See, for that YAHWEH hath given you the Sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

Shalom,
Arkie

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Cool! That's it!!

Shalom
Daron

posted 08-17-2002 03:15 PM         

Daniel 12:3

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posted 08-17-2002 03:17 PM         

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posted 08-17-2002 03:19 PM         

That gentlemen is the question

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posted 08-17-2002 03:26 PM         

Daniel 12:3

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posted 08-17-2002 06:15 PM         

I like the verse you put up of Ecc 7:16. I myself am not above making a sandwich on Shabbat. When a person works through the week days, I have not always had a chance to prepare much for Shabbat in advance.

When the disciples were walking through a cornfield on Shabbat, they plucked ears of corn and ate. They had to pull the husks off first before they could eat. (Throwing some things on a slice of bread is not more work than this.) They were accused by the Pharisees of breaking the Sabbath law, (even today orthodox will not unwrap something in plastic) but this is where Yahshuah reminded them that Messiah is Master of the Sabbath. (Mark's account says "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath)

posted 08-17-2002 06:58 PM         

Duplicate Post

I hate when that happens

[This message has been edited by Daniel 12:3 (edited 08-17-2002).]

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posted 08-17-2002 07:06 PM         

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posted 08-17-2002 07:40 PM         

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Originally posted by Daniel 12:3:
Also some people can put some unrealistic rules or burdens on others,like not unwrapping something in plastic(where did the idea for this come from?)I've seen a lot of (legalistic,Pharisaical) burdens or extra commands just put into things.Thats why i put the verse up from Ecclesiastes, i think some people get way out of balance trying to be (OverRighteous,or Self Righteous).Just like the Pharisees who were the Religous experts of their day but their hearts were not correct.

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Just as a side note, not all P'rushim (Pharisees) have been in line with some of the halakhot (traditions) that certain P'rushim and some Rabbis came up with. The thing to remember is that "certain" P'rushim began making halakhot, initially well intentioned, but some of it seems to have gotten out of hand with "certain" P'ruhim. It is no different than today when Orthodox Judaism was seen to have been outdated in certain practices, then certain Rabbis taught Reform Judaism as a certain direction. Yet, then "certain" Rabbis fealt that the Reform movement had gone too far in the its rejection of traditional observance.

All this just to say that problems are based not on the halalkhot (traditions), but in some people interpretation that a halakhot is equal to Torah. So for example if Y'hudim from lest just say Germany have a tradition not to unwrap anything on Shabbat, they don't have the right to force Y'hudim from lets say Yemen to follow their halakhah (tradition). If for example a Y'hudi from the BaLemba in South Africa follows halakhot (customs) that developed in his particular region then he has no right to force that on lets say a B'nei M'nashsheh from India.

Unfornately, this is what was happening before/during/and still the time Mashee'akh was on earth. There were "CERTAIN" P'rushim who went to far in making halakhot that they began to equate as equal to Torah. Of course not all P'rushim (Pharisees) agreed with this, and certainly the Tz'dukim (Sadduces) didn't agree with it. Even today the Karaim, who descended in a sense from Tz'dukim don't agree with much of Rabbinical, in a sense descended from P'rushim, halakhot.

I personally see nothing wrong with following halakhot (traditions), no matter how extreme they seem if that is a "PERSONAL" choice. The problem is when people start forcing their personal halakhot on people.

So for example, it is a custom I follow not to eat diary and meat together even though the Torah only deals with cooking a young goat in its mother's milk. Yet, because not eating diary and meat together is a custom of only certain Y'hudim I wouldn't force it on anyone, including my children. At the same time I don't go as far as some who have seperate plates, and some who have seperate refrigerators. At the same time if that is the halakhot that a person follows, I can't and won't judge them on it just as I won't be judge on mine. As long as a halakhot doesn't build up a fence that makes the Torah hidden, there is no problem. The problem has always been that some people started creating halakhot to make a fence around the Torah, and then they kept building fences, where "SOME" people don't even know what the original command was, they may only know what the tradition is.

Just a side not. Some times the word Pharisee is used as a blanket, statement for all P'rushim. Not saying that anyone here has been making that, just a personal thing when I hear the word Pharisee. (smile) Normally, the community you live in and the Synagogue you attend would set the mood of the spiritual life of a community to a minor extant. The D'Mar HaBeit or Ruler of the House normally the father of the family would set the the spiritual tone and halakhot of the family along with his wife. Hope that helps.

posted 08-18-2002 12:25 AM         

I just wanted to say,, "Todah Rabah" for that excelent post.

posted 08-18-2002 03:13 AM         

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Originally posted by RICHARD7:
Shalom Ahab; B"H!

I just wanted to say,, "Todah Rabah" for that excelent post.

In His Love and Truth
Shalom u'vracha
Richard

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Shalom Richard akhi,

Mah sh'lomkha?

V'gam l'kha 'awmarti todah rabah kee shell'kha d'varim sugim:

L'hitra'ot,

posted 08-19-2002 02:11 AM         

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Originally posted by Ahab EliYah-El'Askeni:
Shalom Richard akhi,

Mah sh'lomkha?

[b]V'gam l'kha 'awmarti todah rabah kee shell'kha d'varim sugim:

L'hitra'ot,

[/B]

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Tov meod' todah!

Bevakasha sliha' ani lo medaber et ivrit tov meod

But I am learning