posted 06-21-2002 01:16 AM            

Lately, while surfing the web I came across some sites that used Yahsha as the name of the messiah. I was amazed to know that SHUA referred to riches/wealth/crying. The author, goes on to prove that Yahsha is the correct name of the messiah.

For reference purposes allow me to quote portion of the article.

Website: http://www.angelfire.com/zine/matt1078/Articles/ MessiahsNameMadeSimple.pdf
Author: Carroll L. Page

"ISAIAH'S TRUE NAME IS THE KEY TO UNDERSTANDING
I used Isaiah's real name as an example above and I did that on purpose for it holds the keys to understanding the Messiah's name just as Judah's real name does for the name of the Great Heavenly Father. The English rendition masks a very unusual connection to our Savior. It is spelled in Hebrew:

..Yohd....sheen....ahyin....Yohd.......hay....."wahv"

It is transliterated: ....ee.........sh..........ah..........ee........ah..........oo .....I..........sh..........ah...........y.........ah............u (here I/Y = ee, long e)

The Messiah's name is spelled: ..Yode......hay...."wahv"..sheen.....ayin

Compare the spelling of the two names!
Yohd....sheen......ahyin....Yohd.....hay.......wahv (IshaYAHU/Isaiah) ..........................................
------------------------------->Yohd.....hay.......wahv.......sheen....ahyin

Notice (above)the last three letters of Isaiah equal the first three letters of Messiah's name and the first three letters of "Isaiah" minus the Yohd equal the last two letters of messiah's name! ............................
Also notice below: .............................Yohd....sheen.....ahyin.....Yohd......hay....."wahv" .Yohd......hay........wahv.....sheen....ahyin

Notice above: The names Isaiah and "the messiah's name" are derived from the same two Hebrew words "Yahuah" and "Savior". Their positions are only reversed! Isaiah = eeshah + Yahu. And means --------->Savior + Yahu Messiah's name = Yahu + sha (Yohd dropped). And means --------> Yahu + savior If Isaiah is properly vocalized as Isha-Yahu then must not the Messiah's name be Yahu-sha?!!!

Appendix 1 -SHA OR -SHUA? Hebrew Lexicon definition of Joshua 03091 Y@howshuwa {yeh-ho-shoo'-ah} or Y@howshu a {yeh-ho-shoo'-ah} from 03068 and 03467; AV - Joshua 218; 218 n pr m 1)Joshua or Jehoshua = "Jehovah is salvation" The pronunciation given in the word definition 03091 above is about as valid as that of Jehovah which is a rock solid zero. Also note the word salvation which their own text says is false as it lists 03467 as the root word, which is not "Salvation" but "Saves as in savior not salvation. Falsehood on falsehood on top of falsehood, When you start lying how do you stop? The word Joshua is listed in the Hebrew lexicon as being derived from the Hebrew words 3068 (the great heavenly fathers name) and 3467 Yasha meaning save. 03467 yasha {yaw-shah'} a primitive root; TWOT - 929; v AV - save 149, saviour 15, deliver 13, help 12, preserved 5, salvation 3, avenging 2, at all 1, avenged 1, defend 1, rescue 1, safe 1, victory 1; 205 1) to save, be saved, be delivered Notice the other form of the word. 03468 yesha {yeh'-shah} or yesha {yay'-shah} from 03467; TWOT - 929a; n m AV - salvation 32, safety 3, saving 1; 36 1) deliverance, salvation, rescue, safety, welfare THERE IS NO >> SHUA << HERE!! The shua "oo" sound is missing, shouldn't that tell you something!! Think about it. The only way you can get the "oo" sound in the name Yahusha is by adding a Qubbus, a vowel point which is not in the original Hebrew text!!! Folks pay attention and look at the above closely. It is ya SHA and ye SHA NOT yaSHUA or yeSHUA and it carries the thought of saving or savior. Over 200 occurrences of these words (3467 & 3468) all with the Sha ending and they maintain the thought of freeing, saving or savior. Our Saviors name is derived from yasha Strong's Hebrew word 3467. It is NOT FROM 7769 shua. 07769 shuwa {shoo'-ah} from 07768; TWOT - 2348a; n m AV - cry 1, riches 1; 2 1) cry, cry for help, cry out 2) opulence 2a) meaning dubious In the definition of the name Elisha, they admit it means El is salvation but then try to cover up its derivation, from 410 and 3467" By saying it is a contraction of 474 [see below]. 0477 'Eliysha {el-ee-shaw'} --> contracted for 0474;; n pr m AV - Elisha 58; 58 Elisha = "El is salvation" 0474 'Eliyshuwa {el-ee-shoo'-ah} from 0410 and 07769;; n pr m AV - Elishua 2; 2 Elishua = "my El is wealth" or "El is salvation" The primary meaning of "shua" is "my god is wealth". As an after thought they tack on the "El is salvation" bit, and is plain garbage. Brothers be very careful, you are being sold a phony bill of goods. Oh yes "Shua" occurs in the Scriptures and it means crying [as if for help]. I guess, that if the Messiah was helpless or a cry baby instead of a mighty savior, the term might be appropriate. The five forms this one Hebrew word has been rendered by the variation of the vowel points (But remember the vowel points are not inspired) are as follows: 07768 shava {shaw-vah'} a primitive root; TWOT - 2348; v AV - cried 17, cry out 2, aloud 1, shout 1; 21 1) (Piel) to cry out (for help), shout 07769 shuwa {shoo'-ah} from 07768; TWOT - 2348a; n m AV - cry 1, riches 1; 2

1) cry, cry for help, cry out 2) opulence 2a) meaning dubious These are inappropriate for He is sha - savior (one giving help) not shua One crying for help. 07770 Shuwa {shoo'-ah} the same as 07769;; n pr m AV - Shuah 2; 2 Shuah = "wealth" 1) father of Judah's wife Jacob's son Yahudah married a canaanite girl called in scripture Daughter of shua, or Bathshua. Shua is therefore a canaanite name! Gen. 38:2 "And Judah saw there a daughter of a certain Canaanite, whose name was Shuah;" The only conclusion I can draw from the forms Yahshua and Y'shua is that they are trying to indicate our savior is either a wimp crying out for help or that he is a canaanite.!?! 07771 showa {sho'-ah} from 07768 in the original sense of freedom; TWOT - 929c,2348b - AV - rich 1, crying 1, bountiful 1; 3 adj 1) independent, noble, free, rich, generous n m 2) cry 2a) perhaps war-cry, cry for help 07772 Showa {sho'-ah} the same as 07771;; n pr m AV - Shoa 1; 1 Shoa = "rich" 1) a tribe of nomads of Mesopotamia The shoa or without the vowel pointing SHUA were a people that came against and were enemies of Israel. Ezekiel 23:23 So what is meant by YahSHUA? Note! that with most groups and people "SHUA" is emphasized! What do they mean? Yahshua - Yah crying out for help? Or Yahshua - Yah the Canaanite? Or Yahshua - Yah the rich one?? The only way you can get the oo sound in the name Yahushua is by adding a Qubbus, a vowel point which is not in the original Hebrew text!!! Is he not Yahusha or "Yahuah is savior"? ! !

Appendix 2 The Hebrew Vowel Pointing The vowel points were added by Hebrew religious authorities that refused to use the Great Name and that in no way would acknowledge the messiah. They are not of a heavenly origin. There is no way to get shua as an ending to Savior's name without these added vowel points! Could it be that the modern experts on the Hebrew and the uninspired vowel points (finalized about 1000 AD) act as a dynamic duo to cover up the only name under heaven by which you must be saved."

Here are a few question I would like to ask:
1. If "SHUA" (in the name Yahshua) means salvation, why is it that in strong's concordance all occurence of the word SHUA referred to crying, riches, wealth? ( see: #7769, #7774 and so forth).

2. In the article above she claimed that Joshua is the Canaanite corruption and English misspelling of Hoshea.

Thus to say, the name is not Joshua but something like Yosha -- without the WAW. In this manner the name Yahsha could be arrived.

My concern is, could the WAW in Joshua's name be found in the oldest hebrew manuscripts and the dead sea scroll? If you find one please show them.

3. I also noticed in the derivation of names in Hebrew that whenever SHA is used as part of the part it always refer to salvation, Example: Elisha, Y'sha'yah, Hoshea. On the other hand when SHUA is used as part of the name like: Abishua, Melchishua, Bathshua, Elishua, etc. they alway refer to wealth, riches, crying. Why is this so? If indeed the savior's name should carry the word salvation why use SHUA (#7769)as the prefix, why not SHA (#3467)?

4. Also, #7769 SHUA has the same spelling and sound as that of the SHUA in the name Yahshua. If then, the name Yahshua can be rooted to #7769 and to #7768. Where then is our salvation in such roots?

5. Furthermore, rulings in Hebrew indicate that "ah" is a feminine ending. Example: Rebekah, Leah, Zilpah, Bilhah, Deborah, Sarah, etc. There are however exemption like: Jonah which means “dove” and the dove is always assigned feminine gender (Strong’s #3124). Micah in Hebrew, is “Mika-yehu”; meaning “Who is like Yah?” (Strong’s #4321) and Noah is “Noach” (hard “k” sound); meaning, “rest” (Strong’s #1546).

Yahshua (Yahushua) has an "ah" ending, thus making it a feminine name.

Is it right then to give the messiah a girls name?

The name Yahsha comes from #3467 YASHA - a masculine word. So, can be said that Yahsha is the correct and proper name of our messiah?

I would like to ask any concern sacred name believer who read this to please reply. I would greatly appreaciate it if in replying you write down the references/author/page/chapter!

Thank you very much.

posted 06-23-2002 08:37 PM         

By general information and influence I began to call Him Yahshua and have done so for 3 years now. During this time I have heard many variations of this name such as Yahushua, Yeshua, Yahshua, Yahwehshua, Yahwshua, and Yahoshua. All these seemed fine to me. But after thinking this through I began to think about Joshua son of Nun in the Old Testament Scriptures. He was a type and shadow of our coming Messiah [Son of Yahweh]. His name was exact, and His mission represented the Son of Yahweh's mission. I then thought if I could find out what Joshua's name is in Hebrew and how it was pronounced in it's most accurate form then I could be more confident of the Savior's name.

As I begin to share with you the information that I have put together I want to tell you now my conclusion, I have found His name to be most accurate as ‘YAHOSHUA' (Yah-ho-shu'-wa).

OT:3091
Yahowshuwa` (yah-ho-shoo'-ah); or Yahowshu` a (yah-ho-shoo'-ah); from OT:3068 and OT:3467; Jehovah-saved; Jahoshua (i.e. Joshua), the Jewish leader: -Jehoshua, Jehoshuah, Joshua. Compare OT:1954, OT:3442.
NT:2424
Iesous (ee-ay-sooce'); of Hebrew origin [OT:3091]; Jesus (i.e. Jehoshua), the name of our Lord and two (three) other Israelites:
(Strong's Concordance)

Num 11:28
28 And Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of Moses, one of his young men, answered and said, My lord Moses, forbid them.
Num 11:28
28 Waya`an Yªhowshua` bin- Nuwn mªshaareet Mosheh mibchuraayw wayo'mar 'Adoniy Mosheh kªlaa'eem
(Transliterated Version of the Scriptures show Yahoshua as the Hebrew form of Joshua)

The same verse here transliterated from Hebrew to English clearly shows Joshua's name as Yahoshua. I know that the Son of Yahweh shared the same name because of how translators tampered with the name in Acts 7:45 and in Hebrews chapter 4 where it reads ‘Jesus' and it should have been ‘Joshua' there because they carried the same name but translators assumed he was talking about the Messiah Son of El.

There are those who say His name had to be completely different than any other person because of the importance of His name, but it is the meaning, the definition of His name and who He was. I have no problem with that, seeing that Moses himself changed Joshua's name from ‘Hoshua' [(Hoshea) OT:1954 Howshea` (ho-shay'-ah); from OT:3467; deliverer; Hoshea, the name of five Israelites:] which means Salvation, to Yahoshua, which now means Yah's Salvation.
It is important that we pronounce it properly, especially in Hebrew the very alteration of a syllable can change the entire meaning of a word.

JESUS
iesous NT:2424 is a transliteration of the Heb. "Joshua," meaning "Jehovah[Yahweh] is salvation," i. e., "is the Savior," "a common name among the Jews, e. g., Ex 17:9; Luke 3:29 (RV); Col 4:11. It was given to the Son of God in Incarnation as His personal name, in obedience to the command of an angel to Joseph, the husband of His Mother, Mary, shortly before He was born, Matt 1:21. By it He is spoken of throughout the Gospel narratives generally, but not without exception, as in Mark 16:19,20; Luke 7:13, and a dozen other places in that Gospel, and a few in John.
(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright (c)1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers)

JOSHUA
(josh'-u-a) ( (a) yehoshua`, (b) yehoshua`, "Yahweh is deliverance" or "opulence"; compare JESHUA; Iesous):
(from International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Electronic Database Copyright (c)1996 by Biblesoft)

posted 06-24-2002 03:41 AM            

So, it would be much easier to prove the Joshua to be written as Yahushua (Yahshua). My concern now is, where can we find proofs that for the name Joshua a WAW (for the SHUA part) really exist. Can we find them in the dead sea scroll or oldest herew manuscripts?

posted 07-06-2002 10:40 AM            

In you final statement you say the following:

“The name Yahsha comes from #3467 YASHA - a masculine word. So, can be said that Yahsha is the correct and proper name of our messiah?”

From the evidence presented why don’t you believe that the Savior’s Name is YASHA instead of Yahsha. Strong’s #3467 clearly indicates that YASHA means Savior ie. the person, as in Yashayah (Isaiah) 62:11 and Zakaryah (Zechariah) 9:9 under Salvation.

When the Angel said “You shall call Him ________ because he shall SAVE His people from their sins.” The Angel gave the Name that means SAVIOR not Salvation or Deliverance. The only Hebrew word that means SAVIOR is YASHA, #3467. There are other names that mean Salvation, Deliverance etc. but only YASHA includes the meaning of the person of the Savior.

You also said the following:

“I also believed that the name of our messiah was the same with the son of Nun. Most scholors & various evidences proved it.”

What evidence do you have that “proves” that the Messiah’s name was the same as the son of Nun? The fact that most “scholars” agree is no proof.

I believe you are correct in your beliefe that the Messiah was not called Yahshua, but I also believe your reasoning falls short of the facts. You are much closer to the truth by calling Him “YAHsha” as the pronunciation of Yahsha and Yasha are the same. My problem is with the origin of the name Yahsha.

Remember one thing, His Name was to be above all others and special. If he had the same name as other Israelite’s at the time it doesn’t seam so special to me. (Philippines 2:9)

In Yasha’s Service
Yashron

posted 07-13-2002 03:54 PM            

Isn't it ironic there is a book explaining the name of Yasha.

If Yahweh, Yahshua, and Yahushua are modern Hebrew sounds, wouldn't this contradict this being the original names of el since these modern sounds did not exist in the original Hebrew Bible?

Since men in the Old Testament were named Yeshuwah and Yehoshuwa (Joshua/Joveshua)also known in the new modern Hebrew languages as Yahshua or Yahveshua (Joshua / Joveshua), then how can any of these sounds, old or new Hebrew, be the Saviour's name.

Therefore, the Savour's name is above every name, even men which already carried the name Yeshuwa (Joshua) and Yehoshuwa in the Old Testament, whereas, the salvation name was not revealed until Mashiyach's birth and not in the Old Testament.

In order to find the original Hebrew name for the Saviour, you need to follow the scripture in Philippians 2:9, where it says el gave Him a name above every name. Therefore you must identify where all the other substitute Hebrew names came from and when you find that Hebrew name, you will see that this sound is above every name because those substitute names came from that original sound. A clue can be found in #3467 in the Hebrew Dictionary of the Strong's Concordance where the other names came from #3467.

The authors of the book called "The Hebrew Name that the Original Apostles used to work Miracles", which happens to be the group that discovered and have restored the name of Yasha as the true name. Please contact them at 815-933-4963.

posted 07-13-2002 07:06 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by JayAr:
I also believed that the name of our messiah was the same with the son of Nun. Most scholors & various evidences proved it.

So, it would be much easier to prove the Joshua to be written as Yahushua (Yahshua). My concern now is, where can we find proofs that for the name Joshua a WAW (for the SHUA part) really exist. Can we find them in the dead sea scroll or oldest herew manuscripts?

So I would like to ask you ALL, please provide references (name of book/pages/chapters) to counter such as allegation, and I could then say this subject could be put to silence forever.

---

You can look in the Peshitta Aramaic Ktava' Daqyama' Khadta' (New Covanent Writings). This includes both the Peshitta Aramaic version and the Hebrew translation. This was not translated from Greek. It is claimed to have been given to a congregation in Syria by one of of the Taught Ones of Mashee'akh named Yokhanan. Within this congregation are some men called Nestorians who are descended from certain Yahudim Natz'rim who believed in Mashee'akh and fled Rome the persecutions from Christians began. In the Peshitta the Name of the Mashee'akh is spelled with Yod (Tsere) - Sheen - Waw (Shuruq) - Ayin (Pathakh). The Waw (Shuruq) produces a long "oo" sound.

You can acquire a version of this Peshitta under the name "The New Covenant Aramaic Peshitta Text with Hebrew Translation" from two sources. One source is the Aramaic Scriptures Research Society in Israel. The other is to find a Bible Society near where you live, and they can order it from Jerusalem. I went direct and got mine from Israel. This form of Aramaic is similar to Modern Hebrew. This book comes with Modern Hebrew on the left pages, and Aramaic on the right.

You can also get one from the Syrian congregation themselves by way of the Assyrian Market at http://gallery.bcentral.com/Gallery/ProductDetails.aspx?GID=4390053&PID=2232 65&page=1&sortOrder=0.

You can also acquire their Neo Assyrian New Covanent Scripture at http://gallery.bcentral.com/Gallery/ProductDetails.aspx?GID=4390053&PID=3210 73&page=1&sortOrder=0. These books are in Peshitta Aramaic, but you can find books on Amazon to assist in translating. An example of Peshitta Aramiac from the eastern part of Syria is this .

Personally, I believe that the following represent some of the best possibilities of the Name Mashee'akh had on earth, or even what His Name may be based on the change mentioned in Revelations. Yet, I am always open to the idea that I could be wrong. So may the day comes when Mashee'akh makes us all right and on one accord.

I hope this helps.

------------------
Ahab EliYah-El'Askeni
Sight Beyond Sight http://3n1promo.com/sight/

posted 07-20-2002 09:43 AM            

But I have noticed in Jewish newspapers and kosher food packaging the transliterations of English terms into Hebrew and vice versa. Particularly interesting are the slight variations in the sounds of each Hebrew character from word to word. Consider the city of Washington Heights, NY...the word "Heights" is spelled with TWO Yods in Hebrew (even though I detect only one long-I sound in the word) for reasons defying explantion.

I also had the rare opportunity to visit a Hebrew cemetery in Alpena, Michigan. Whilst there, I noticed how the names on the gravestones were written in Hebrew vs. English. In particular was how the name "Jacob Alpern" appeared on one gravestone. "Alpern" was written with an Ayin apparently representing the letter E. One would not think offhand that Ayin represented the "schwa" sound, but apparently (at least in the spelling of that name) it does.

I also was able to record two Israeli movies--"The Summer of Aviya" (apparently unavailable in the U.S.) and its sequel, "Under the Domim Tree" (available on VHS)--via a Canadian TV service in Windsor, also reaching metro Detroit (where I was staying at the time). The spelling of the names in the credits (Hebrew vs. English) further conviced me that what we think is the "ONE AND ONLY!" sound of a Hebrew character is not always the case. Waw can represent a (soft) V or O or OO depending on the word; Pe can be a P or F, Shin can be S or SH, Beth can be a B or (hard) V, Aleph can be an EY or EE, He can be AH or EH, Ayin can be U or UA, and so on and so forth.

I also have a Jewish TV music special "To God's Ear" on tape. Certain words pop up on the screen occasionally during the programme. I noticed that, again, some Hebrew character sounds are inexplicably variant in different words vs. their English counterparts.

As I am not a Hebrew scholar I have not studied vowel "points" so they are useless to me. In fact, in print the vowel points are sometimes not even used. I believe that a word would retain its proper pronunciation either way. Some Hebrew words begin with, contain, or end with "silent" letters for no apparent logical reason at all!

I have also seen the pronunciation SHUA(H) spelled several different ways in Strong's Concordance. Which one of those is correct, hmm? ELOHIM starts with an Aleph; how do you explain that? (I thought Aleph didn't have an short-E sound!) Do we need to explain it? Are we even supposed to?

I'll stick with "YAHWEH" and "YAH(U)SHUA" for now. However, I am open to change if someone can verify beyond a reasonable doubt that I, and the various Hebrew/English documents I've seen, am/are wrong in my/their treatment of Hebrew spelling and/or pronunciation.