posted 01-08-2002 02:39 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ashur:
If you are or ever have been a House of Yahweh member please post a message. I recently left the organization due to corruption and a load of lies and liars. Yes they had some truths, like any group, but the lies have overshadowed any truth they exspoused to the serious harm of others.

If you are still a member you must stop lying to yourself and covering up for the elders ignorance, hate, and lies. Don't let the so called House of Yahweh ruin your life and freedom. All they are interested in is making everyone a slave of one sort or another. You aren't even allowed to think for yourself.

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posted 01-08-2002 07:48 PM            

I understand your feeling and can sympathise as I also [ many years ago] got caught up in a cult religion.
Yahweh gracefully brought us out of it, and we have never been a member of any religious organization since.

Yes there are some ex-members of the HOY that have been regular participators on this forum, and occasionally they bring up the hurt they have experienced in the past.

From a positive point of view, and I speak of my own experience as well as having corresponded with some ex-HOY people, is that you have not totally waisted all your time.
It might very well be the case that Yahweh brought you trough all this to be a wiser and more experienced person, able to help others who have gone or are going through the same trauma. And also in the mean time you have been exposed to HIS word regardless.

Nothing is a waist, and Yahweh NEVER makes mistakes.
People do.
Rest assured that there is a better way, and it is not in any organization or group, but in following Him as truly only the Holy Spirit can lead you.
You can still gather together, even via the internet if that is would be the only way for you at present [ as it is for us ], and get spiritually fed and nourished. Yahweh does not stipulate we have to gather in a house, church or Synagogue as a rule for our salvation! Nor does it say you have to belong to a church, congregation or assembly as a pre-requisite. But sometimes, and for some it is a help. To be alone is no problem, as Yahweh is very capable to look after your needs in the broadest sense,
Even Elijah was fed by ravens 1 Kings 17:6 [ a symbolises reference to miraculous spiritual nourishment], and at one time cried out: " There is NO one left in Israel who does what is right" Yet Yahweh told him in no uncertain terms that He had 'reserved' 7000 men, obviously in hiding, who knees had not bowed to Baal [Lord] either. 1Kings 19:18.
He, Elijah, did not know about any of these men, but was comforted by the thought that he was not alone, and took it in faith.

Some groups believe that 'They' are the only ones that have salvation, and that there is no one else outside their establishment that Yahweh is interested in. Ever worse, they might say that anyone outside will be destroyed.
This is arrogance going to seed. An absolute lie. And at the same time very sad to observe.
But, HalleluYah, Yahweh has and is capable to show HIS light, regardless our creed, level of spirituality, ethnicity, or language, or even in what country you live. He is Just and Fair, and is bigger than the HOY or any other religion or cult.

I am sure many here can testify to that.
I extend a warm and a heartily welcome to you here on this forum as well as in EliYah's chatroom, and to any one else who have been hurt or butchered in a previous spiritual relationship, and pray that you find a place of rest and refreshment as HE directs you by His 'Still small voice" [1King 19:12]

Yahweh be with you and bless you through His son Yahushua ha Messiah, His Word.

posted 01-08-2002 07:55 PM            

You probably will find some HOY members trying to intimidate you by entering into this forum.
They have done that before and it is a sure sign of their 'HOLD' on people.
Trust in Yahweh not in the intimidation of people.

In the archieve of this forum, are many letters of poisonous pens, of members of this 'cult' who have gone nasty.

It would be wise for all, not to go into the pettiness and mud-slinging these people are accustomed to.

Any cult hates to see their members exposing them. Yet the truth needs NO DEFENDING.

Jozef

posted 01-08-2002 09:47 PM            

You stated:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>I am sure many here can testify to that.
I extend a warm and a heartily welcome to you here on this forum as well as in EliYah's chatroom, and to any one else who have been hurt or butchered in a previous spiritual relationship, and pray that you find a place of rest and refreshment as HE directs you by His 'Still small voice" [1King 19:12]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Thank you Jozef. I am in this forum for the exact same reason. I was not a member of HOY but I was apart of a very cultic camp hiding themselves under the name of Yahweh.

I did learn alot and I praise Yahweh for taking me through that path. Though it was very painful and I was quite deceived, I learned alot. Man will make mistakes; however, it doesn't take long to see when Satan has inhabited the body of one to deceive many. I was terribly, terribly hurt and I pray often that Yahweh will heal the pain. Hurt is always painful but there is no hurt like "church hurt".

Praise Yahweh for his forever guidance to those who diligently seek his truth and Thank You to all who has welcomed me here.

"As I live, saith Yahweh, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock; Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of Yahweh, Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them,” Ezekiel 34:8-10.

posted 01-10-2002 01:23 PM            

I could go on long and hard about their abuses, hypocrisy, lies, and scandals. And I will.

I just got another one of their prophetic word newsletters. That is one thing that has always bothered me. The irrelevance of their publications. The cover causes you to expect one thing, like that you'll get an answer. But inside it is just a load of unconnected blithering. There is no flow or sense to their publications. They just stuff it with a bunch of jumbled thoughts and ideas and clippings. Oh the clippings.

The long post that didn't show up (my fault) I started off by exposing their SCANDAL at the Third Global Conference on Peace. This was such a deceitful scam, but it will give you insight into the way that Yisrael Hawkins and his house of smellders operate.

What they did was create dozens of phoney organizations in order to stack the deck so to speak, to gain as many seats at the conference as possible. They even changed all their names so that no one outside of the HOY would suspect. Overnight the House of Yahweh became dozens of charitable organizations by all kinds of stupid names like;

Tanah Sheets (an elder's wife) "B.A.D. Mothers"
[non-existant, could you pick a more stupid name?]
Michayl Sheets (her arrogant husband) "Louisiana State"
[that's original - there's two seats and that is just from one couple!]
Thawn Zapao - "Republic of India" [a total farce, he is Filipino]
Nana Ashong - "Republic of Ghana" [actually an illegal immigrant from Canada]
Stephen Richard - "Crime Watch News" [non-existant, yeah he watches t.v. woohoo!]
Kepha Arcemont - "Peacekeepers" [non-existant, lame name]
Qeuntin James - "Citizens For Unity" [non-existant]
Jeffrey Heimerman - "Rebels for Peace" [non-existant, oh please!]
Roseline Guobadia - "Nigerian Women For Peace" [non-existant, LAME LAME LAME]

The list is too long to list all of them here but you get the idea. What a shame on them. I wonder if the few ACTUAL co-conveners uncovered this conspiracy to dominate the conference with nothing but shameless plug after plug for people to buy Yisrael Hawkins latest overpriced, poor quality books.

I like how Yisrayl told everyone not to use Hawkins as their last name - hmm, the shame would have been too great. They were also told not to wear any of their holy garments in the sanctuary!! Incredible since before you would be kicked out if you did not wear them because it was supposed to be a dishonor to Yahweh. Well this conference was a great dihonor to Yahweh.

Another time, on a holy sabbath, during a feast, Yisrael Hawkins had a muli-level marketer, who was not even from the HOY enter the sanctuary and preach about great riches of marketing his snake oils. He also went on giving glory to "GOD" right from the pulpit!! Apparently Yisrael can make these exceptions for COLD HARD CASH! They handed out a form to sign up to this company and they all had YISRAEL HAWKINS filled in as the sole benefactor of all the commissions you were going to generate!!! INCREDIBLE. Anyone else would have been shot for attempting to do this. But the water just rolls off Hawkins back. (I suppose it did that too when he was baptised).

There is plenty wrong with Hawkins. He admitted that he was an alcoholic during the time he was supposed to have been writing some of the most important books he published. I wonder what influence that had. But as we know, he doesn't actually write much of those books, dozens of others actually contribute and he STEALS the credit. The first couple of books went out of their way to thank all the people that helped write and research. But that changed.

The one thing that really bothers me about his autobiography, if you can really call it that. Well for one it is mostly not there. Two there is no point in his life when he has a spiritual awakening, conversion, turn about, repentence, etc. It is just one long flow of scandals. His own family calls him a liar. He is a liar, and that is obvious by listening to any of his sermons in which he claims he invented or discovered something before anyone else.

His family origin is also very doubtful. No one can or is willing to verify it. You know the apostle Shaul talks about who is dedicated to the work of Yahweh. He says a married man has his interests divided, and that is absolutely true, not evil, but true. So how dedicated is a man who has 12 wives and concubines? I'd say he is either totally undedicated to Yahweh's work (and that does show) or he is the world's worst most inattentive husband (except for quick sex).

He runs the House of Yahweh like a plantation, full of actual slaves. Their freedom is not on his mind, nor is it a shared goal.

Well there is volumes more to say. Your turn.

posted 01-11-2002 12:59 AM            

Praise Yahweh! Thank you, Josef, for the beauty of the truth that you gave to all in your first post. Satan's not overly worried about us who don't know Yahshua, for their sinful natures keep them imprisoned to sin and death. When an individual begins to hear the Spirit of Yahweh speaking to him/her, that one begins to get interested in the whys? of life, and then begins to ask questions that weren't asked before.

Although s/he doesn't know it, the Spirit will lead that one until, if s/he has continued to listen, the Scriptures become the desire of that one's heart. This gets Hasatan's attention, for the last thing he wants is another believer living in the world that's under his control (1 John 5: 19). From the time that one gets into the Word, satan tries to bring him/her back to the ways of the world. If that one does go back to the world quickly and doesn't return to Scripture after having fallen back there, then that one has become the HEARER who received seed that "fell by the way side, and the fowls came, and devoured them up" [the word was torn from the heart, mind] (Matthew 13: 4). That one loses his/her salvation, because the evil one takes the little that s/he has learned, and negates it (see verse 19 of Matthew 13).

Always remember, unless you are that one who has "the word of the kingdom" taken away because you've allowed the Word to be taken from you and you haven't spent time trying to understand it, then you COULD be one of the OTHER TWO types of people who allow the Word to be negated by sin. The ONLY way you can lose your eternal life, is if you allow "the lusts of the flesh, and the lusts of the eyes, and the pride of life" to get the better of you, and you refuse to believe that Yahweh, in Yahshua Messiah, HAS, and CONTINUES TO save you. So long as we are allowing Yahweh to lead us, He will ensure that although we may take a very circuitous route [like Israel in the desert], we will eventually arrive at the True Promised Land. Our faith must hold on, unto the end, [Revelation 2: 10b]; this, is what Yahweh requires of us. Most of us have come through much tribulation of one sort or another [cults, divorces, prison], yet, so long as we hold unto the truth of the gospel that leads us all into repentance and obedience, Yahweh will hold unto us!

I am so very happy, along with Josef, to rejoice that you have come forth from a gigantic lie, into fellowship with people who love Yah, and are led of His Spirit to walk in the truth as it is in Messiah Yahshua. I cannot add any more to Josef's words, saving in saying with all, "HalleluYah! Yahweh is so good!"

posted 01-11-2002 03:48 AM         

I read your comments with interest, but feel bad because you have confirmed my worst suspicions about Hoy. A year or two ago, I had a very dear friend who used to post quite a bit under the name of "Soy." I tried my best to get her to take a better look at Hoy but she went there anyway. Not long after, she quit writing altogether. I felt really bad about it and still do, she was a great friend. I can only pray that someday she will come to see Hawkins for what he is.

posted 01-11-2002 09:14 AM            

But I know why she has not posted. This is because most likely she was forbidden to use the internet and post to boards. She was basically only allowed to repeat the "party line". No free thought expression, that is totally discouraged.

I don't believe any physical harm would ever come to her, just spiritual and mental harm. Some time, Hawkins will either die or basically the organization will fall apart.

There was a large split within the HOY over a year ago, about 8 or more elders left, hundreds of laypersons left as well. They may have gone in different directions, but the reasons they left for were all the same. They confronted, or wanted to confront Yisrael over teachings and practices that were contrary to the Torah. Before a hearing could be had the elders were tossed out permenantly. Communication with them was forbidden. Lies and rumors were spread behind their backs.

posted 01-12-2002 05:33 PM            

While I have never had contact with hoy, I do have a copy of their scriptures. This is what I don't agree with that I've been able to glean from only the publication:

Their teaching on Tithing
Their teaching on Authority or leaders
Satan being a female (interesting though)
Some scriptures here and there that seem to contradict

Otherwise I really like the "Book of Yahweh". I always study the KJV and combine it with their translation (along with Strong's of course). For example the subject of Melchizedec in Hebrews, I believe he got that exactly right.

Can you give me your opinion on that and the book in general?

posted 01-12-2002 07:03 PM            

I believe that their basic teaching on tithing (that there are 3 separate tithes) is correct. It is found right there in any bible, it is inescapable.

Satan is a female. This is also inescapable. In fact the HoY condemned such teaching until someone forced them to examine the facts. Eventually they adopted it, but not without alot of battles. This understanding is not unique to them. Satan's name is Asherah, and Yahweh's other Name is Asher as He said in Exodus 3:14. The Jews themselves were called Ashurai before they were called Yahdai. The bible does say they were married, (and separated) and that was a long standing belief for thousands of years. I don't have a problem with that.

And yes there are some scriptures in the Book of Yahweh that contradict. However the translation does make some wonderful corrections, and it is a major step in the right direction. But it could still be much better.

My main contention is that there are commentaries in the main text that would be better left in the side column. Also they did restore the Name of Yahweh where it should be, but went far beyond and inserted in many places where it is not in the original. Some places where the Greek was twisted into verses that appear to be against the Law, they did a good job of restoring them. But then again they repaired some scriptures that just didn't need repairing.

One example is 1 Timothy 4:1-5. It really is talking about food, not "instruction". It could be a little clearer, but they missed on that one. Another is the qualifications of an elder in 1 Timothy 3. They falsely translated it to appear that it did not say an Elder should have only one wife. Shaul taught that having even one wife divided one's attention to the work of Yahweh, surely having more than one would diminish someone's attention so much that they would not make a suitable leader, they would be tied up with marital affairs. This is the only thing that makes sense. But Yisrael wanted sex and lots of it, so they had to alter the scriptures. A real shame.

The way it works there is that David Verner, the translator, will do earnest work, but then sometimes Yisrael comes in and says, I think something should be translated like this - arbitrarily - or "Hey I need you to find something to justify such and such" and David fills the order. So you get some really good stuff, and you get some total garbage.

I'm working on my own translation to keep things straight. I'm going to post it as a website soon. It will definitely help. Meanwhile I still use the BoY quite a bit, and other translations.

Otherwise I really like the "Book of Yahweh". I always study the KJV and combine it with their translation (along with Strong's of course). For example the subject of Melchizedec in Hebrews, I believe he got that exactly right.

posted 01-12-2002 08:48 PM            

Thanks again for your answer. It is probable by the things that you didn't mention, that we agree on many things.

1. Not one yod or tittle of the law is "done away with".
2. That there is one Yahweh only and that Messiah wasn't pre-existant.
3. That there is no such thing as the Trinity
4. That Messiah could not change the law in any way, but did magnify the intent of the lawmaker.
5. That the apostles couldn't add or change the law.

As far as tithing goes, I don't have a problem with anyone on how they tithe. There is a tithe for saving to go to the feasts. There is a tithe for the widows and orphans. And there is a tithe for the levites. From my study though, there is no place in scripture where they are numbered first, second and third. To me scripture plainly states that those are all out of the 10% of our firstfruits. (deut 14) In other words there is 10% (tithe)required not 30% on the third year.

Explanation:
1. Assume a man makes $10,000 a year.
2. 360 days minus 52 sabbaths equals $29.25 a day earnings after the tithe of 10%.
3. The tithe, which amounts to $1000 is equal to 34 days earnings.
4. When we go to the feasts, it should take the equivalent of 8 to 10 days earnings to enjoy the feast which leaves 24-26 days earnings to give to the levite of which every third year a portion is given to the widows.
5. Take 24 days earnings and multiply it by the hundreds of thousands families that were in Israel at the beginning and there is more than enough for the levites.