posted 07-26-2001 02:34 PM            

John 10

14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

The first part of verse 16 intrigued me. In my cross referencing I came across this passage:

Bibliography Information
Henry, Matthew. "Commentary on John 10". "Matthew Henry Complete Commentary
on the Whole Bible".

First, As the ground of that intimate acquaintance and relation which subsist between Christ and believers. The covenant of grace, which is the bond of this relation, is founded in the covenant of redemption between the Father and the Son, which, we may be sure, stands firm; for the Father and the Son understood one another perfectly well in that matter, and there could be no mistake, which might leave the matter at any uncertainty, or bring it into any hazard. The Lord Jesus knows whom he hath chosen, and is sure of them (ch. 13:18), and they also know whom they have trusted, and are sure of him (2 Tim. 1:12), and the ground of both is the perfect knowledge which the Father and the Son had of one another’s mind, when the counsel of peace was between them both. Or, Secondly, As an apt similitude, illustrating the intimacy that is between Christ and believers. It may be connected with the foregoing words, thus: I know my sheep, and am known of mine, even as the Father knows me, and I know the Father; compare ch. 17:21. 1. As the Father knew the Son, and loved him, and owned him in his sufferings, when he was led as a sheep to the slaughter, so Christ knows his sheep, and has a watchful tender eye upon them, will be with them when they are left alone, as his Father was with him. 2. As the Son knew the Father, loved and obeyed him, and always did those things that pleased him, confiding in him as his God even when he seemed to forsake him, so believers know Christ with an obediential fiducial regard. ( b. ) He is acquainted with those that are hereafter to be of this flock (v. 16): Other sheep I have, have a right to and an interest in, which are not of this fold, [u]of the Jewish church[/u]; them also I must bring. Observe, [ a. ] The eye that Christ had to the poor Gentiles. He had sometimes intimated his special concern for the lost sheep of the house of Israel; [u]to them indeed his personal ministry was confined; but, saith he, I have other sheep. Those who in process of time should believe in Christ, and be brought into obedience to him from among the Gentiles, are here called sheep, and he is said to have them, though as yet they were uncalled, and many of them unborn, because they were chosen of God, and given to Christ in the counsels of divine love from eternity.[/u]

Help me out, folks, as I am not always on point.

1. Is he perpetuating Replacement Theology or am I reading this wrong?

2. The called, are they not everybody, including the lost sheep of Israel who are in the outer court but are known as "the multitude".

3. The Chosen, those of us AM YHWH who are known to by Messiah Yahushua and stand in the inner court.

I am confused about this "other sheep".

Can somebody help me out.

Have a Peachy Day!

posted 07-26-2001 04:38 PM         

There is not even a hint of replacement theology in this comment. The "sheep" in general are the elect (Rom 8:29,30). "This fold" is Israel and the "other sheep" are gentiles. The "one fold" would be the "ekklesia" or "Body of Messiash", Jew and gentile together.

B'rakhot

posted 07-26-2001 04:49 PM            

(v. 16): Other sheep I have, have a right to and an interest in, which are not of this fold, of the Jewish church; them also I must bring

When I look at this, I draw this conclusion from what he is stating:

1. The other sheep are the "Jewish church"

2. His sheep are the ones who believe on him first, and those would not be Israel first.

I agree with what you're saying, but we must prove all things, and it would seem that He is saying the opposite of what you're saying and what we both believe.

I just had to run this by somebody.

Have a Peachy Day!

posted 07-26-2001 05:27 PM         

The problem with Matthew Henry here is not one of replacement, but of a failure to make a distinction between Israel and the ekklesia. He follows covenant theology, which means he sees a "continuing covenant community" which he calls the "church". Thus, you have his expression the "Jewish Church" by which he means Israel. I don't know, but suspect he spiritualizes everything regarding the kingdom, and says that the promises of a kingdom are being fulfilled in the church. It's not that the church has replaced Israel, but that in his mind they are one and the same thing. When anyone believes they become part of Israel. I, of course, disagree with this point of view.

B'rakhot

posted 07-26-2001 05:30 PM            

Thanks for clearing that up. Makes sense to me.

posted 07-26-2001 05:50 PM            

I asked the question concerning John 10 you have raised here about 10 years ago of a prominant pastor of the "Worldwide Church of G-d." He literally became upset and trembled, stating he would get back to me with an answer after running the question by "Headquarters." I did not understand why such a simple, straight-forward question bothered him so much. He never got back to me, and because I saw the question had made him uncomfortable, I never asked again. BTW, I am no longer a member of any religious organization.

The scripture you have quoted has always intrigued me. After reading your question, I thought I'd do a quick mini-study on the subject. I think if you read Isa. Chapters 42 through 45; Isa. 56:8; Ps. 147:2; Rom. Chapter 11 and Gal. 3:28-29, you might be able to put into perspective the great Plan and the love YHWH has for ALL of His creation, specifically for the restoration of ALL Israel, not just the Jews, which are only one tribe of Israel).

Yah has not turned His back forever on Israel, but has purposely blinded them so that the gentiles may be brought in, and that we may ALL be of one fold or one Body in Messiah-- the "door," to life eternal.

I would take the time to type out all the scriptures, but since the computer crashes at times, I think it better to list them, rather than lose my entire posting.

Of course, there is so much more to such a magnifient subject you have brought up here, but the above scriptures will give us a start.

I hope this helps.

Riyah

posted 07-27-2001 12:19 AM            

"As Yahshua was walking along, he saw a man who had been blind from birth. "Teacher," his disciples asked him, "why was this man born blind? Was it a result of his own sins or those of his parents?"

"It was not because of his sins or his parents sins," Yahshua answered. "He was born blind so the power of G-d could be seen in him. All of us must quickly carry out the tasks assigned to us by the one who sent me, because there is little time left before the night falls and all work comes to an end. But while I am still here in the world, I am the light of the world." Then he spit on the ground, made mud with the saliva, and smoothed the mud over the blind man's eyes. He told him, "Go and wash in the pool of Siloam" (Siloam means Sent).

"So the man went and washed and came back seeing . . .Then they took the man to the Pharisees. Now as it had happened, Yahshua had healed the man on a Sabbath. The Pharisees asked the man all about it . . .Some of the Pharisees said, "This man Yahshua is not from G-d, for he is working on the Sabbath." Others said, "But how could an ordinary sinner do such signs?" So there was a deep division of opinion among them . . .When Yahshua heard what had happened, he found the man and said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?" The man answered, "Who is he, sir, because I would like to?" "You have seen him," Yahshua said, "and he is speaking to you!"

"Yes, Master," the man said, "I believe!" And he worshipped Yahshua.

Then Yahshua told him, "I have come TO JUDGE THE WORLD. I have come TO GIVE SIGHT TO THE BLIND, and to show THOSE WHO THINK THEY SEE THAT THEY ARE BLIND."

The Pharisees who were standing there heard him and asked,"Are you saying WE ARE BLIND?" "IF YOU WERE BLIND, YOU WOULDN'T BE GUILTY," Yahshua replied. "But you remain GUILTY, BECAUSE YOU CLAIM YOU CAN SEE" (John 9: 1-41, the New Living Translation, emphasis mine).

This is the crux of the matter! We go into John 10, having already delineated beforehand what's going to be cleared up by Yahshua's words. Yahshua's statement in 9: 41 is saying: Listen up! There are people in this world who are blind [spiritually ignorant to the things of Yahweh], and because they are blind, they have no sin. Now, you on the other hand, have been given all of the tools necessary to bring you into line with the truth those others who are not guilty have not known; yet, the truth is that having all that's needed to ensure your ability to see, you are more blind than those who have no spiritual knowledge. Therefore, your being blind is truly sin; and, great sin!

Those who are His sheep in this case, are those who know spiritual truth, and also know Him. In other words, the only Jews who are his sheep are those who have the truth and because of that, know also that Yahshua is He that has been sent from the Father as the Messiah. As we look back upon the workings of the earthly sanctuary, it's mighty hard for us to say those who had such knowledge could not see the Messiah in Yahshua, UNTIL we understand that these leaders were completely out of harmony with the spirit of the truth; i.e., their knowledge WAS NOT SPIRITUAL but carnal, for they were still in their sins.

Abraham's understanding of truth, and the Kingdom of Yahweh, was such that he wouldn't even put down a foundation on this earth; but, lived in tents, "For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is G-d" (Hebrews 11: 10).

Clearly then, what Yahshua is saying here is that there are others which are not of this fold [those who know the truth and it has led them to know the Messiah] that are other sheep [they have not a knowledge of the truth, but, they will learn the truth and they will follow me even as the Jews who know the truth and who follow Me]. After all, in Isaiah 42: 6: "I, Yahweh have called you in righteousness, and will hold your hand, and will keep you and will give you for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles."

This is another clear Scriptural passage that predicts that the Messiah would be a Light to the Gentiles! Yahshua then says, ". . .and there shall be one fold,
[literally, one "flock," for it is widely held that Jerome, who translated Greek: aule; (fold), and Greek: poimne; (flock), by the Latin: ovile; (fold). Jerome's reading accords with Roman Catholic assumption that that church is the one true fold. Some Protestant denominations say there are many folds in which the one flock is housed; but, there is not a hint of this erroneous view in this verse]
and one sheppard" (John 16: 10c).

Quite obviously here, Yahshua speaks to those of the Gentiles, who would hear the truth by the preaching of the everlasting gospel beginning when Paul went unto the Gentiles under the unction of the Spirit of Yahweh, to bring the truth to a nation having the fruits thereof:

"AND THEY CAUGHT HIM, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, AND WILL LET OUT HIS VINEYARD UNTO OTHER HUSBANDMEN, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. Yahshua saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Master's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? Therefore say I unto you, THE KINGDOM OF G-D SHALL BE TAKEN FROM YOU, AND GIVEN TO A NATION BRINGING FORTH THE FRUITS THEREOF. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them" (Matthew 21: 39-45).

That a period of probation was given unto the whole world [6 days, each day equals one millennium] and there will be a Seventh Millennium, wherein the earth will keep her Sabbath for 1,000 years while the righteous rule in the third heaven with Yahshua, is a well known truth. That those who went deadly astray were given only 120 years before the flood is a well known truth. that there was a time of probation given to Israel in Daniel 9: 24-27 is readily seen.

Yahweh's plan from the beginning is set up in Ephesians:

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Yahshua Messiah to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

"HAVING MADE KNOWN UNTO US THE MYSTERY OF HIS WILL, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times HE MIGHT GATHER TOGETHER IN ONE ALL THINGS IN MESSIAH, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth [do notice here that "which are on earth" is a corporate oneness; for Jew and Gentile are all of one as in one FLOCK] even in him:

"In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Messiah. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory" (Ephesians 1: 4-14).

Heaven and earth will come together, and we learn from the last few chapters of Revelation that the City, the New Jerusalem, shall descend to the earth from the third heaven at the end of the seventh millennium, and this will be the second resurrection, the time of the wicked to come forth from their graves, to reap what they have sown. Upon surrounding the City to take it from the righteous inside ["Gog and Magog . . .went up on the breadth of the earth and compassed the camp of the saints (as if to steal it from us with a great fight) and FIRE CAME DOWN FROM G-D OUT OF HEAVEN, and devoured them"
(Rev. 20: 8, 9). Thus, that fire that destroys the wicked eternally shall also purify the earth, making it BRAND NEW! Then we will become the center of the universe, and this earth the home of all that is in the third heaven, and all the righteous who have believed and obeyed, as did Yahshua, will be the home of Yahweh, and of Yahshua, for they shall rule from the Earth made New.

Imagine: a time will begin wherein there is no unrighteousness, no sin, and all our tears will be wiped away, those tears that Israelites who have loved the truth by obedience as it is in Yahshua, and Gentiles who have loved the truth by obedience as it is in Yahshua, will live forever with Him Who is our Father, not of different children; but, of every son and every daughter, in the very image of Yahshua in character forever. It is my grandest prayer and aspiration that each one of us will be able to hold hands on that sea of glass, and sing the praises of Yahweh, who has brought together sinners who are so no longer, clothed in the righteous robe of Yahshua, to be all of His family, always, Amen.

posted 07-29-2001 08:42 PM            

Yahweh chose a people, and He promised this people's father that from his [Abraham's] seed would come forth a great nation, and, within the center of that nation, would come the Savior of the human race. Some would think this not to be the case; but, in that Yahweh is the same forever, His initial promise to Adam and Eve wasn't nullified in His promise to Abraham; it was simply further clarified, for Abraham, who was at the time of his call from out of Ur, the most righteous among the people of the earth, possessing the faith to leave house and home, and allow Yahweh to have full sway in his life, was an obvious pick for Yahweh. Abraham knew how to have his house follow after his orders, and, his orders were according to truth.

Israel was NEVER commanded to keep this message of a coming Savior to themselves. As can be seen in the reign of Solomon before his backslidings, this kingdom was looking like the very one Yahweh always wanted, for men and women, great and small, were hearing of the wisdom of the King, whose G-d was the Creator of the world. There was nothing Yahweh did not give Solomon, so that His glory would be known through the whole world. Had Solomon's backslidings [really, his near full fall into unbelief] NOT occured, probably the whole world would have been lighted with the glory of Yahweh, and all of the conditional [if you obey, then I will do this] promises would have been actualized worldwide; but, we all know the story - this didn't happen - rather, gross apostasy held sway until Yahweh's leaders put His Son on a cross, to signify what they thought about Yahweh's Kingdom. Worldly greatness had been the one desire on the minds and hearts of the Sanhedrin, and unless they'd found a savior whose heart was even as theirs, they would not obey Yahweh! The truth is, they had hearts of stone, and not hearts of flesh.

We look back into the history of Yahweh's people, and truly there is nothing we are able to bring away from it that we can be proud of, saving in the history of the fathers; now, there were men after Yahweh's own heart - although none was perfect, saving, maybe Enoch, the seventh from Adam. That which is taught throughout TaNak that CAN BE a source of great pride for us is that we who walk by faith and obedience have a most glorious and resplendant G-d, for the beauty of the mercy of Yahweh toward a stiff-necked people such as we have been, is without a parallel through the history of time!

Today, many of us still want to count ourselves special; not like those Gentiles of this world; why, we're better than they are; our national pride proves we are a blessed people - intellectually heads above the rest! And, one day: we WILL be in the top spot of the hierarchy of this world's governments!

Today, by the grace of the Spirit of Yahweh, I would have all listen to what the Spirit says to the churches: The nation of Israel came forward in the form of a rich young man, and he, having been tormented for quite awhile with the lack in his bones, came forth to Yahshua, and, with a little self doubt, said, "Good Master, what shall I do in order to inherit eternal life? And Yahshua said to him, "Why do you call ME good? there is none good but one, that is, G-d." [This question was Yahshua's way to ascertain if this young man understood that Yahweh was standing there right before him; thus, Yahshua was asking, "Calling me Good Master, is this because you know I am (ego eimi)?"

The man failed to answer that question [he might have simply been unsure]. Yahshua continues, "You know the commandments: Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not,Honor your father and your mother" [Yahshua simply told the man, perfect obedience to these commandments of the moral law is what is required of all who would enter heaven].

"And [the man] answered and said unto him, "All these have I observed from my youth" [and, he smiled, knowing this was indeed the truth]. "Then Yahshua, beholding him loved him [and thought, would not this man be one of my most trusted followers] and said unto him, "You do lack but one thing" [and the eyes of the young man opened wide, for seeing that glint of love in Yahshua's eyes, he felt finally, he would know what this void in his life really was]

"Go thy way, sell whatever you have, giving and sharing it with the poor, and from that time forward, you will be storing true treasures in the kingdom in heaven: and, come forth, take my cross that has been ever before me, and begin to help me carry it right now to the place of sacrifice"!

"And Israel, that sad young man, wanted not to receive this as the answer to the reason for the void in his life. And so walking away more grieved than ever, for he knew the words of Yahshua were true, he tried to take solace from his pain in his great possessions, for he knew he had much to allow him take the truth off his mind"!