12/28/2007 Sabbath Meeting Transcript

In tonight's study we will discuss what the scriptures have to say about the true character of the Father, Yahweh; And His Son, the Messiah and our Savior, Yahushua.

Most of the Christian world has told us that we worship a "trinity."

In fact, most of the Christian world will tell you that unless you believe in the "Holy Trinity", you have no salvation and are part of a "cult."

Since they do place such great importance on this doctrine, it is certainly needful to be sure that the "Trinity" doctrine is indeed correct.

When I speak of the Trinity, I refer to the belief that the one we worship is one "God" (Elohim), manifested in three persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit), all of which are co-equal in greatness.

Whatever we believe, it must not contradict any scripture

But when going further into this subject with one who believes a trinity, they often like to explain away some of the contradictory scriptures with saying:

"It's just one of the great mysteries of the faith."

This belief is a mystery indeed. 3 is 1, yet 1 is all 3, yet the 3 are all 1 while 1 is still all 3?

Much of the basis of this belief concerns the use of the title "God" (from the Hebrew word "Elohim").

The word "God" is the most overused word in trying to prove the Trinity doctrine.

In fact, the word is a source of much confusion overall.

I have come to understand that this the "Elohim" (translated "God") has meanings other than 'the supreme being'

Here are some examples where the word "Elohim" or "El" is found in the Hebrew, but it is not translated "God"

Exodus 21:6 - Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

In the above verse, "Elohim" is translated "judges"

Jonah 3:3 - So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of YAHWEH. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey.

In the above verse, "Elohim" is translated "exceeding"

Proverbs 3:27 - Withhold not good from them to whom it is due, when it is in the power of thine hand to do it.

In this verse, "El" is translated "power"

Nehemiah 5:5 - Yet now our flesh is as the flesh of our brethren, our children as their children: and, lo, we bring into bondage our sons and our daughters to be servants, and some of our daughters are brought unto bondage already: neither is it in power of our hands; for other men have our lands and vineyards.

And in this verse, "El" is again translated "Power."

The context of these verses do not give support to the idea that "Elohim" means "God."

What this reveals is the the Hebrew word "Elohim" has a much broader use and meaning than the English word "God"

Therefore "God" isn't a particularly accurate translation of the Hebrew word "Elohim" and translating it as such can cause quite a bit of confusion.

However, we could see where the concept of "Mighty" or "Mighty ones" would fit well with each of these verses.

There may not be a fully accurate translation of "El" and "Elohim" into the English language, but I think that this may be the closest.

Nevertheless, I prefer to use "Elohim" rather than translating since I know I cannot go wrong with that.

Now when someone says "God" today, what generally comes to mind is "The Supreme being". But we can see that Hebrew "Elohim" has different shades of meaning

I know that some might say this is being 'too picky' but I do think it's important!

According to the data I have, this word (in various verbal forms) is found 2606 times in the Masoretic Hebrew text.

In fact, 32% of all verses in the book of Deuteronomy contain this word. With such a common word, is it not very important that we have an accurate understanding of what it means?

Certainly.

If "God" is not the best translation of "Elohim", this is probably the most mistranslated word in all of scripture.

What makes it even more significant is the affect of this mistranslation on doctrine.

Some say...

The Father is "God"

The Son is "God"

The Holy Spirit is "God"

There is only 1 "God"

Thus, we must have a 3 in 1 "God".

The logic continues that the Messiah could not be a lesser "god" or another "god", thus He must also be equal with the Father as being fully "God" and, in a sense, 1/3rd of "God."

They say that each member of the "Godhead" is "fully God"

Similar logistics are used in the "oneness" doctrine except they believe that the the Son of Yahweh is also the Father, and is not a distinct person.

To me, that's even more confusing since the Son is the Father, so the Father must also be the Son. The Son would be His own Father?

How could He then be the Son if He is the Father?

Those who promote this doctrine also misunderstand Hebrew words like "Elohim" and "Savior"

They believe that such words can only be applied to the "Supreme Being"

The truth is that "Elohim" and "Savior" are both titles that describe Yahweh and Yahushua just as the words "King" or "Master" are titles which describe Yahweh and Yahushua.

Neither "Elohim" nor the Hebrew word for "Savior" are exclusive words that can only be attributed to the Heavenly Father Yahweh

The title "Savior" is ascribed to men in Obadiah:

Obadiah 1:21 - And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be YAHWEH's.

And again in Isaiah:

Isaiah 19:20 - And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto YAHWEH of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto YAHWEH because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.

While it is true that Yahweh is the one doing the saving, He uses men to do so and they are rightly called "Saviors" because they took part in the saving, just as Yahushua did.

The word "El" or "Elohim" is also used to describe men, angels and yes, Yahushua also.

Way too much is made of who deserves the title "God"

Because in scripture, "Elohim" can refer to anyone of great might (usually with divine authority).

So what is the truth?

Scripturally, it is certain that the Heavenly Father Yahweh is supreme and above all things.

But all things, all power and authority have been "given" to Yahushua.

Father Yahweh is the giver of all life, the source of all things. From HIM ALL things flow.

All life...

All love..

All spirit...

Deuteronomy 6:4 - Hear, O Israel: YAHWEH is our Elohim, YAHWEH is one:

I believe in this scripture, Yahweh is definitely ONE. But was Yahweh making a doctrinal statement here? I believe too much is made of this verse as well.

What is the Hebraic meaning of "One" in this verse?

In Hebrew, it is the word "Echad".

Does it necessarily mean 1 (as in a number)?

Not at all.

It is also found in this verse:

Genesis 2:24 - Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

In this case, we see two becoming one.

It is a plural unity nonetheless.

Genesis 11:6 - And YAHWEH said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

Yahweh said that the people are "one" (Echad) even though there were many. And He said they had "one" language which was literally the number 1.

"Echad" is used in both instances.

So how should we interpret the "Sh'ma" (Deuteronomy 6:4)?

Does this mean that Yahweh Himself is a plurality?

Not necessarily. For the Hebrew word "Echad" can also mean "one" as in a number. The above verse illustrates this. It says that they had "one" speech

So from what I see in the use of this word "echad", Deuteronomy 6:4 cannot be used to prove the trinity, oneness or any other such doctrines.

But, as is often the case, we can receive the correct interpretation when we look to the words of Yahushua the Messiah:

John 17:20 - Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Here Yahushua was praying for us.

In this prayer, He desired that we would be "one"

John 17:21 - That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Notice carefully here.... Yahushua prays that we may be one as Yahweh and Yahushua are one.

And.. He also prays that we may be "one" in them!

If we believed in the trinity, we would need to believe that Yahushua was praying that we would all be part of the "Godhead"

And if we believed in "oneness" we would need to believe that we will become Yahweh one day

Brethren, our oneness with Yahweh is not one as in a 'number', but one in unity of thought and will and purpose.

Thus it is with Yahushua and Yahweh.

We can be one with each other in the way Yahushua and Yahweh are one, and we can be one with them.

When our way is Father Yahweh's way...we are one with Him. But this does not mean that we or Messiah are to be considered equal to Him.

Father Yahweh is above all!

There is no disunity within Yahweh, and there are no disagreements between Yahushua and Yahweh. They are one in purpose and in thought.

And we can share that oneness with them, when we are in submission to Yahweh just as Yahushua is even today. HalleluYah!

For even Yahushua expressed a personal will that was different from His Father's will... yet yielded to the Father's will when He prayed:

Luke 22:41 - And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,

Luke 22:42 - Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

Now the very essence of the word "Father" is one that describes a giver of life.

Yahushua referred to Yahweh as His "Father," as do we.

Yahweh the Father is truly the giver of life. The One who is the source of life must be, by nature, greater than the one who receives that life from Him.

The one who is the ultimate Giver of Life must be the Supreme Being who started it all!

Yahushua said:

John 17:3 - And this is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true Elohim, and Yahushua the Messiah, whom thou hast sent.

Yahushua called Him (Yahweh the Father) the only true Elohim.

In one sense this is true, for all "might/power" (the meaning of Elohim) proceeds from Him.

But others (who have might/power) can also be called "Elohim" as we have previously shown.

Now some might say that this scripture in John 17:3 doesn't apply anymore because Yahushua speaking "before He was glorified" and/or "He is only speaking from His earthly state."

But this is human reasoning, not found in scripture. We must beware of human reasoning and explaining away. There is no scripture stating that Yahushua was "just speaking from His earthly state."

They say that He only meant that for the time when He was on earth and that now Yahushua is a part of Elohim fully.

Beware of reasonings that disregard the words of our Master! What did Yahushua call His Father AFTER His resurrection and ascension? His co-equal?

Revelation 3:12 - "He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My Elohim, and he shall go out no more. And I will write on him the name of My Elohim and the name of the city of My Elohim, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My Elohim. And I will write on him My new name.

No, Father Yahweh is 4 times STILL Yahushua's Elohim.

Father Yahweh was and is very clearly the Elohim (Mighty One) of Yahushua.

Next time someone tells you that Yahushua is co-equal with Yahweh the Father, ask them who Yahushua's Elohim is.

Then watch them dance around when you quote this verse which clearly contradicts their doctrine.

What we believe about the nature of Yahweh and Yahushua must fall in line with all of scripture.

I don't put a name on what I believe. I just believe whatever the scriptures say about the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

And the scriptures clearly say that Father Yahweh is still the Elohim of Yahushua and therefore greater than He, just as Yahushua said.

John 14:28 - Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

The scriptures say they have separate wills and are distinct from one another. One is a Son, the other is a Father.

We can choose to ignore, explain away or believe what Yahushua says. Why not just believe Him?

What has took place after Yahushua's resurrection is that Yahweh exalted Yahushua above all. Yahushua said it so plain:

John 10:27 - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

John 10:29 - My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

All things are "given" to Yahushua by the Father and Yahweh is greater than all.

He who has the power to give them is by nature greater than the receiver.

The fact that it is Yahweh's to give shows that He is truly greater than all and He owns everything!

I do not take honor from Yahushua in saying this. Yahushua said it Himself.

Matthew 19:17 - And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, YAHWEH: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Even Yahushua had to recognize that any goodness He had came from the Father. Even His righteousness was not self-induced. His righteousness came from Yahweh the Father.

Therefore, I do not take honor from Yahushua in saying this.

In fact, Yahushua is worthy of praise, honor and yes.. "Worship".

I will elaborate on that later, but for now let's consider the position of Yahushua after all things are completed:

1Corinthians 15:20 - But now is the Messiah risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1Corinthians 15:21 - For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

1Corinthians 15:22 - For as in Adam all die, even so in the Messiah shall all be made alive.

1Corinthians 15:23 - But every man in his own order: the Messiah the firstfruits; afterward they that are the Messiah's at his coming.

1Corinthians 15:24 - Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to YAHWEH, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

1Corinthians 15:25 - For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

1Corinthians 15:26 - The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

1Corinthians 15:27 - For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

Who put all things under Yahushua? Who is this One who is "excepted"?

Who is excepted? The Father is excepted, who is greater than all. It is once again a clear picture then, that Yahweh the Father is the source of all things.

Father Yahweh is the one who put all things under Yahushua because He is greater than all. He is the only one who could!

Continuing..

1Corinthians 15:28 - And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that YAHWEH may be all in all.

So Yahushua will be subject to Father Yahweh in a future time..even as now. And this is the blessing of order.

1Corinthians 11:3 - But I would have you know, that the head of every man is the Messiah; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of the Messiah is YAHWEH.

Now let's look into this matter of worship.

Some assume that we can only worship the one supreme being.

But once again, we will look at this hebraically.

Please understand that in Hebrew the word "worship" simply means to "Bow down"

2Samuel 14:4 - And when the woman of Tekoah spake to the king, she fell on her face to the ground, and did obeisance, and said, Help, O king.

2Samuel 14:5 - And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, I am indeed a widow woman, and mine husband is dead.

The word translated "Obeisance" here is the same Hebrew word translated "worship" all throughout the scriptures.

The Hebrew word is "Shachah" (#7812) and is translated "Worship" 99 other times in the KJV.

Here is another place:

1Chronicles 29:20 - And David said to all the congregation, Now bless YAHWEH your Elohim. And all the congregation blessed YAHWEH Elohim of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped YAHWEH, and the king.

They worshipped Yahweh "AND THE KING"

Now, before anyone gasps.. read this:

Revelation 3:9 - "Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie--indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.

Interesting, yes?

We will reign with Messiah, and be kings and priests (if we are accounted worthy)/

We need to have a scriptural view of what worship is and what it really means. It is a sign of submission.

To bow before someone is to recognize that they are in a position of authority over you.

Yahushua refused to bow before satan, or before any idol, as should we all!

But, if you can believe the scriptures as written, being "Worshipped" (shachah) does not mean you are the Supreme Being!

Yahushua was worshipped:

Matthew 28:16 - Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Yahushua had appointed them.

Matthew 28:17 - And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

Matthew 28:18 - And Yahushua came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

We see here that the disciples worshipped Yahushua. At least 11 times it is recorded as such. Yahushua accepted their worship and did not forbid them. Why?

Matthew 28:18 - And Yahushua came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

All power is GIVEN to Yahushua in heaven and earth, HalleluYah! He who had the inherent authority and greatness to give it was the Father

Who gave it to the Father? Nobody, for He is SUPREME and above all

He had it from eternity.

But He gave all power to Yahushua the Messiah

Yahushua is WORTHY for He overcame the world and in Him there is LIFE and Salvation!

And we would do well not to place Him in a lower place in our hearts than we ought. After all, He has power and authority over all of us!

John 5:22 - For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

John 5:23 - That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

So.. the fact that Yahushua was worshiped, what does this prove?

Does it mean that He is the supreme being, equal to the Father?

Absolutely not.

Consider the psalm:

Psalms 45:6 - Thy throne, O Elohim, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

This is a psalm speaking of Yahushua the Messiah. It is quoted as such in the book of Hebrews:

Hebrews 1:8 - But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O Elohim, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.

Notice that the Son is called "Elohim" here.

Continuing...

Psalms 45:7 - Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore Elohim, thy Elohim, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Here again, even though the Messiah is called "Elohim"... Yahushua's Elohim is none other than Father Yahweh.

The verse clarifies the true Elohim. HIS (Yahushua's) Elohim: the Father.

But Yahushua is worthy of our adoration and praise and worship. He even shares the Father's omnipresence:

Matthew 18:20 - For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Yet He clearly is in subjection to the Father and the Father is clearly His Elohim, His strength and His source of life.

None of this means that we worship a trinity.

Philippians 2:9 - Wherefore YAHWEH also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Who is greater, one who has the authority to exalt or the one being exalted? How is it possible that the one who exalts is on equal plane with the one who needed to be exalted? How can it be that He who exalts is not greater than the one needing exalted?

Philippians 2:10 - That at the name of Yahushua every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Philippians 2:11 - And that every tongue should confess that Yahushua the Messiah is Master, to the glory of YAHWEH the Father.

If I read verse 11 correctly... If we lift up Yahushua, We are lifting up the Father...if we praise Yahushua , we are praising the Father..it is all to the glory of Yahweh the Father!

For the Father dwells in Him. Yahushua dwells in us, thus the Father's Spirit is also in us.

Now let's look at John 10:

John 10:31 - Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

John 10:32 - Yahushua answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

John 10:33 - The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself Elohim.

So here is the accusation.

This would have been the great opportunity for Yahushua to show them how he was co-equal to the Father.. a part of the trinity and "godhead" or show them that He actually is the Supreme Being Himself.

But He did no such thing

What did Yahushua do? He did the exact same thing I have done in this study. He downplays the greatness of even being called "Elohim" to begin with!

John 10:34 - Yahushua answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are elohim?

John 10:35 - If he called them elohim, unto whom the word of YAHWEH came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

John 10:36 - Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of Elohim?

This is what Yahushua pointed out to them, and so this is what I point out to others. Yahushua downplayed the 'exclusivity' of being called "Elohim" and so I choose to do the same.

Yahushua defended this claim with the scripture that refers to men as "elohim" in Psalm 82:6. This shows that they had a false concept of what it really means to be called "Elohim" means, just as do leaders of today.

How words are used in various scriptures demonstrate their meaning. The scripture cannot be broken, as Yahushua said!

Continuing in John 10:

John 10:37 - If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

He, being the Son, imitates the Father and walks in His Spirit.

He said that if He isn't doing His Father's works then don't believe He is the Son of Elohim.

John 10:38 - But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Now notice that He didn't say He was the Father, and He didn't say He was equal to the Father. He said that the Father is in Him and He is in the Father

We can also be one in them, remember?

The source of all life, Father YAHWEH...is IN Him. But Yahushua isn't equal to Him, neither then nor now. Yahushua has an Elohim just like we do. And it is Yahweh the Father.

John 8:13 - The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.

John 8:14 - Yahushua answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.

John 8:15 - Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

John 8:16 - And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

Yahushua said He wasn't alone. There is another who sent Him.

John 8:17 - It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

John 8:18 - I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

They aren't one 'person' (as is claimed by the "oneness" believers), else Yahushua would be playing a little trick on them and His defense would have been false.

John 8:19 - Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Yahushua answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

If we know Yahushua, we do know the Father because Yahushua walks in the image of His Father.

An image is an image. An image cannot be the original. If I look in a mirror, it's an image but it is not me.

We also were created in the image of Elohim, but we are not Him

So two bear witness. Now I ask, where is the Holy Spirit in all of this?

Shouldn't the Holy Spirit also bear witness if there are 3?

The Holy Spirit is simply the Spirit of Yahweh. It is His Spirit. The Spirit proceeds from Yahweh the Father.

John 15:26 - But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

The Spirit poured out on those in Acts 2 is simply the Spirit of Yahweh the Father.. Kepha/Peter said:

Acts 2:16 - But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

Acts 2:17 - And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith YAHWEH,I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

The Holy Spirit is that Spirit that proceeds from the Father, no wonder it is Holy! It is simply the Spirit of Yahweh the Father. It is not a separate being that one should pray to or speak to as if it was something distinct from the Father.

Nowhere in scripture have I found anyone praying to or speaking to the Holy Spirit as if it were another person, separate from the Father and Son.

The Spirit is that which proceeds from the Father.

Yahushua also comes from the Father.

But Yahushua is not equal in greatness to the Father

1Corinthians 8:5 - For though there be that are called mighty ones, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be mighty ones many, and masters many,)

1Corinthians 8:6 - But to us there is but one Elohim, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Master Yahushua the Messiah, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Is there not a distinction here of who the Father is compared to the Son? We have no separate testimony of the "Holy Spirit" here. Of course the Holy Spirit is "Elohim" because it is the Spirit of Elohim.

The Father is the source of all things and He does all things through Yahushua the Messiah by His Spirit.

His Spirit dwells in Yahushua the Messiah. Yahushua the Messiah dwells in us, therefore Yahweh's Holy Spirit is in us!

I'm not particularly fond of human analogies.. but consider this analogy for a moment...

In relation to us, the Father is like the "generator", the Holy Spirit is like the "Electricity" and the Son is the wires, the Way that we can receive the Spirit of the Father... that we might live forever with them.

The one who is inherently greater than all is the one who is the source of all things. The Father sends the power from Himself to all things.

The Son is the way that the Father has chosen for us to receive His Spirit

And we?

We are the light of the world in Him.

May Yahweh's Spirit dwell in us to reveal His ways and His truth.

And may Yahweh bless you and have mercy on us all!