Transcript of Sabbath Meeting - 12/10/99


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BrBC - welcome
BrTom - Almighty Father Yahweh
BrTom - We come before you in the name of your son Yahshua
BrTom - and ask that you forgive our sin and uncleanness for the sake oif his sacrifice.
BrTom - and hear our prayer and our praise
BrTom - Father, we wish you good Sabbath,
BrTom - may you see your children all over the earth in shalom and love.
BrTom - Father Yahweh, we praise you for your love,
BrTom - for you power
BrTom - for your righteousness!
BrTom - Father please send your spirit to be with us at this meeting and to be within us as well.
BrTom - Guide all that is said.
BrTom - Teach us your ways and give us strength to follow in them.
BrTom - Thank you for sending Yahshua to be our example,
BrTom - Thank you for sending him, your beloved son, to die for us.
BrTom - Father, being with you is such a great gift! Thank you for making it possible!
BrTom - We praise you and ask your blessing in Yahshua's name.
BrTom - HalleluYAH!

EliYah's message:

HalleluYah!

Tonight I would like to share a study on the 14th chapter of Romans

This chapter is often quoted by the teachers of torahlessness to support their Anti-torah understanding of scripture. There are many views out there on the meaning of this chapter.

Romans 14:1 - Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

Here we are told to receive one who is weak in the faith.

For centuries, mainstream christianity has taught that this weak person is one who is still hanging onto so called "ceremonial" commandments in the law of Yahweh such as Sabbath observance and refraining from eating unclean animals as outlined in the 15th chapter of Leviticus.

If this were the case, we would need to classify Peter (Kepha) as one who is 'weak in faith'!

When Yahweh gave him a vision in Acts chapter 10, Kepha said "I have never eaten anything common or unclean."

This was many years after Yahshua's resurrection.

So was Kepha weak in faith? I think not. Look at Kepha here:

Acts 3:6 - Then Kepha said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Yahushua the Messiah of Nazareth rise up and walk.

Acts 3:7 - And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ancle bones received strength.

Hardly a man lacking faith!

It was through faith that this man was healed. (see verse 16).

Consider also Paul himself would have to be classified as 'weak in faith' if this were the proper interpretation

For his custom was to observe the Sabbath:

Acts 17:2 - And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

It can be shown that the disciples all kept the Sabbath 83 times in the New Testament. Were they all weak in faith also? I think not

For this reason among many, I am convinced that what is being talked about in Romans 14 could not about the eating of pork and other unclean foods.

I believe that the situation in Rome has to do with meat offered to idols.

However, this is not evident just by looking at the first few verses of Romans. We must read through the whole chapter before we really get an understanding of what is being talked about here.

So please have an open mind through this study and toward the end I think you will begin to see why this is evident.

But before we get any furthur into Romans, let us examine the situation in Corinth as a backdrop to our study:

1Corinthians 10:25 - Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:

1Corinthians 10:26 - For the earth is YAHWEH's, and the fulness thereof.

Note verse 26...

The earth is Yahweh's and all its fullness

The reasoning for Paul's stance is that all animals belong to Yahweh. Truly the earth and all the animals that dwell therein does belong to Yahweh.

If we with a pure heart are eating an animal that Yahweh has not forbidden us to eat then surely there is no sin in that.

The problem was that the believers in Corinth and also in Rome were surrounded by paganism.

1Corinthians 10:27 - If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.

This phrase 'eat what is set before you' is not a new one. Yahshua used it when sending out the seventy:

Luke 10:8 - And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:

Luke 10:9 - And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of YAHWEH is come nigh unto you.

Continuing in 1 Corinthians

1Corinthians 10:27 - If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.

1Corinthians 10:28 - But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is YAHWEH's, and the fulness thereof:

1Corinthians 10:29 - Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?

How can this scripture ('the earth is Yahweh's and all its fullness') be quoted to support both of these views?

Consider that you were eating and one were to tell you that this meat is from an animal sacrificed unto a false idol. By continuing to eat it the person who told you this may think that you don't acknowledge that the earth is Yahweh's and all its fullness.

Rather they may think that you believe the earth was not created by Yahweh.

Knowing that all things were created by Yahweh is the key to proving that all the idols are worthless because Yahweh truly has made all things.

1Corinthians 10:30 - For if I by favor be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?

If we are giving thanks to Yahweh for our food, which He has created, we are acknowledging it was He who has given us these things.

and not an idol

1Corinthians 10:31 - Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of YAHWEH.

This is the whole point of what is being said to those in Corinth. Even though they do not recognize that an idol is anything, we do not want to eat anything that might cause Yahweh to be looked upon with a lesser degree of glory.

For truly the earth is Yahweh's! Let's look at another place in 1 Corinthians where Paul originally introduced the subject:

1Corinthians 8:1 - Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but love edifieth.

1Corinthians 8:2 - And if any man think that he knoweth anything, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

1Corinthians 8:3 - But if any man love YAHWEH, the same is known of him.

1Corinthians 8:4 - As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other Elohim but one.

1Corinthians 8:5 - For though there be that are called mighty ones, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be mighty ones many, and masters many,)

1Corinthians 8:6 - But to us there is but one Elohim, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Master Yahushua the Messiah, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1Corinthians 8:7 - Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

So here is an example of a weak brother. This particular weak brother can not help but to think of the idol as he eats the meat that might have been sacrificed to an idol.

He even eats it as a thing offered to an idol.

Other believers, who have attained more knowledge and faith, understand that an idol is nothing. They eat with the knowledge that Yahweh has created this food which He is receiving.

1Corinthians 8:8 - But food commendeth us not to YAHWEH: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.

1Corinthians 8:9 - But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.

1Corinthians 8:10 - For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;

1Corinthians 8:11 - And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom the Messiah died?

Apparently there were some who were so bold about it, they would even go into an idol's temple and eat the meat. This is flatly condemned here.

1Corinthians 8:12 - But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against the Messiah.

Yahshua said that what we do to the least of the brethren we do unto Him.

1Corinthians 8:13 - Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

So here we see an example of a weaker brother in the city of Corinth.

I am convinced that we have a similar situation in the city of Rome. However, the believers in Rome are more knowledgable about Yahweh than those in Corinth

It is very obvious that those in Corinth had some major sin to deal with.

1Corinthians 15:34 - Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of Elohim: I speak this to your shame.

But those in Rome Paul said:

Romans 15:14 - And I myself also am persuaded of you, my brethren, that ye also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another.

By this, we could conclude that what we see in Rome is a more advanced situation than the one in Corinth.

Now lets get back to the situation in Romans. Here is verse 1 again:

Romans 14:1 - Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

So again here in Romans we are dealing with a weak brother.

This is much like the situation in 1 Corinthians chapter 8. So we can see that in both the Corinthian and Roman assemblies the common thread was dealing with those who are weak.

Let us now read through the whole chapter before concluding anything.

Part of the problem is that we are dealing with something that both Paul and the Roman assembly are aware of but we are left to figure out what it is.

It is much like listening to one side of a phone conversation.

But keep in mind that this is among the 'doubtful things', so it must not be an issue of whether or not to obey a commandment of Yahweh.

So let's read on:

Romans 14:2 - For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

Here is a very key verse. Clearly it is talking about vegetarianism

The weak person is the one eating vegetables. The question is why is this person considered weak??

Well, remember that we saw a similar situation with a 'weak' brother in the Corinthian assembly. This persons faith was hindered by his temptation to follow an idol.

But this is a more advanced situation in Rome.We find that brothers have taken more of a stance on both sides of the issue.

Romans 14:3 - Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for YAHWEH hath received him.

Romans 14:4 - Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for YAHWEH is able to make him stand.

Based on context of this chapter, I believe that what we see here is that some would not eat meat at all for fear that it might have been offered to an idol.

Others believed that since an idol was nothing, they would not ask any questions when buying meat.

Keep in mind that in Rome there were over 1 million people and 400 pagan temples in that city!

This is not unlike the Corinth with its many pagan temples and about a half million people. So it seems that what is being said here is that they should not judge one another based on this issue.

The Roman assembly apparently had a division on this.

Those who did not ask questions when eating the meat were condemned by those who refused to eat anything (for fear it might have been offered to an idol.) This passage refers to the latter as the 'one who is weak'. This is exactly like what we saw in 1 corinthians.

Romans 14:5 - One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Romans 14:6 - He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto YAHWEH; and he that regardeth not the day, to YAHWEH he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to YAHWEH, for he giveth YAHWEH thanks; and he that eateth not, to YAHWEH he eateth not, and giveth YAHWEH thanks.

There are various theories on this these 2 verses.

One theory states that this is talking about the Sabbath. There are several reasons why I believe that this is not so

They are:

* This stance does not agree with other scriptures that uphold the Sabbath.

* There is no mention of the Sabbath in this chapter.

* It isn't man who makes the Sabbath day above all other days. It is Yahweh who sanctified and blessed the 7th day at creation. We are just commanded to keep holy what Yahweh has sanctified.

* This chapter is about 'doubtful things'. Commandments of Yahweh are not doubtful things, especially when Yahweh writes them with His own finger.

I believe that this passage is talking about which day that one should fast. This does have support in the text because the scripture says:

Romans 14:6 - He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto YAHWEH; and he that regardeth not the day, to YAHWEH he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to YAHWEH, for he giveth YAHWEH thanks; and he that eateth not, to YAHWEH he eateth not, and giveth YAHWEH thanks.

One of the traditions of the Pharisees in that day was to fast twice a week:

Luke 18:11 - The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, Elohim, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

Luke 18:12 - I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

Also Yahshua expected that His disciples would fast:

Luke 5:34 - And he said unto them, Can ye make the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them?

Luke 5:35 - But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.

So the context of this whole chapter proves out one common thred. The whole chapter is talking about FOOD. Continuing on....

I would submit that it might also be possible it is referring to a certain day that meat was not eaten

This may have been based on the idea that certain days pagan sacrifices were made and the meat sold

However, I cannot prove it

Whether it is a complete fast or a vegetarian fast, it is unclear

Continuing in Romans:

Romans 14:7 - For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

Romans 14:8 - For whether we live, we live unto YAHWEH; and whether we die, we die unto YAHWEH: whether we live therefore, or die, we are YAHWEH's.

Romans 14:9 - For to this end the Messiah both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Sovereign both of the dead and living.

Romans 14:10 - But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of the Messiah.

Romans 14:11 - For it is written, As I live, saith YAHWEH, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to YAHWEH.

Romans 14:12 - So then every one of us shall give account of himself to YAHWEH.

Romans 14:13 - Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

So Paul did not condemn those who would not eat the meat.

He never condemned them in 1 Corinthians either. If he had, it might have caused that brother to stumble because those who had a consciousness of the idol would eat it "as a thing offered to an idol" and their conscience, being weak, would be defiled.

Paul wanted those in Rome keep this in mind. What was condemned here was the attitude of the stronger brother toward the weaker one.

Romans 14:14 - I know, and am persuaded by the Saviour Yahushua , that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Romans 14:15 - But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom the Messiah died.

How selfish for a person to trouble another just because He knows that an idol is nothing! But is food offered to an idol unclean?

From what I understand, the common teaching of the Jews in that day was a resounding 'yes'

According to the Encyclopaedia Judaica under the heading "Purity" it says:

"In the case of idolatrous offerings the law is even stricter [than the impurity of the idol itself] and Judah b. Bava says that it conveys impurity by overshadowing, as does a corpse"

The teachings on purity that were handed down to the Jews of this generation went FAR beyond what the word of Yahweh ever taught.

For an example of this, let's look at a situation that Yahshua ran into:

Luke 11:37 - And as he spake, a certain Pharisee besought him to dine with him: and he went in, and sat down to meat.

Luke 11:38 - And when the Pharisee saw it, he marvelled that he had not first washed before dinner.

Luke 11:39 - And Yahushua said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness.

Luke 11:40 - Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also?

Yahshua did not adhere to the teachings handed down from that one must wash their hands before eating dinner.

There is no such commandment in the word of Yahweh.

But to the Pharisees, the hand washings were seemingly of utmost importance.

They were quite particular not only in when to wash their hands, but even how. There were ordinances that you had to wash up to the third joint of the finger with a certain measure of water, etc etc etc.

They focused so much on what might cause them to be impure, they forgot that Yahweh would rather have them focus on what IS pure.

Yahshua told them to 'give alms of such things as you have; then indeed all things are clean to you.' In other words, let your hearts and lives be full of compassion, and it will make you clean. Purity comes from within! And so the scripture says:

Titus 1:15 - Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

and again:

James 1:27 - Pure and undefiled religion before YAHWEH the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

and again:

Philippians 4:8 - Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

So in the eyes of one who has a pure heart before Yahweh, there is no such thing as another deity.

We all know that Yahweh is the only Mighty One.

We all know that Yahweh has sanctified in His word the animals that we can eat and does not forbid us to eat them.

If one wants to offer them to an idol, that is their business but we will give thanks to Yahweh for providing food for us to eat!

However, if what we do eat would not bring honor to Yahweh but we would find out that it was surely offered to an idol..then we would harm our brother who is weak in faith then surely that is not the will of Yahweh.

Romans 14:16 - Let not then your good be evil spoken of:

Romans 14:17 - For the kingdom of YAHWEH is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Romans 14:18 - For he that in these things serveth the Messiah is acceptable to YAHWEH, and approved of men.

Romans 14:19 - Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

Romans 14:20 - For meat destroy not the work of YAHWEH. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

Again the meat itself is pure whether it was offered to an idol it is not common or unclean. From the days of Noah up until now, Yahweh has made man to know the difference between the clean and the unclean. If the scripture states that the animal was clean, then it was clean!

Romans 14:21 - It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

Now here is a very important verse. This is where Paul actually clarifies that he is talking about meat offered to idols. It is hidden from our eyes by translation but it is nonetheless there! Let's look at the greek word that is translated "meat" here...

Actually translated "flesh", not "meat"

BDB/Thayers # 2907 2907 kreas {kreh'-as} perhaps a primary word;; n n AV - flesh 2; 2 1) (the) flesh (of a sacrificed animal)

In fact it is this same word that is used in

1Corinthians 8:13 - Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

This is the only 2 places in the New Testament that it is used. In both cases the context was concerning meat offered to idols

Notice that even though it was obvious from reading the first and second verses of this chapter that he was talking about meat, this is the first time that the food that is spoken of here in Romans is classified as 'meat'. So this certainly clarifies things.

Romans 14:22 - Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before YAHWEH. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

Romans 14:23 - And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

If you have any doubts about the earth being Yahweh's and the fullness therein...and are tempted by the idol, then this person is condemned if he eats what he is unsure about

This is exactly what was taught in 1 Corinthians 8 and 10. Therefore it seems very obvious to me that there are alot of parallels between what is said in Romans 14 and what is said in 1 Corinthians.

Based on these things I believe it is very safe to conclude that in both cases Paul is talking about food offered to idols. Paul at no time during this chapter considers 'liberty' a license to sin. Sin is transgression of the law.

If we eat things that Yahweh has commanded not to be eaten, we are not keeping the commandment of Yahweh.

Therefore we are transgressing the law and are sinning. We should know what sin is! Therefore it is sin to eat things that Yahweh has commanded us not to eat!

We can't throw out the whole of scripture that teaches against sin because of a one sided conversation in Romans!

It can not be proven that this chapter is speaking of unclean meats. But it can be proven that it does not.

There are many other passages that teach we should keep the commandments. Here is one example in scripture that shows Yahweh's concern for people who eat unclean animals:

Isaiah 66:17 - They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith YAHWEH.

Please examine the context of this chapter. It is speaking of the end times...this has not occured yet.

So yes, Yahweh is still concerned that we do not eat things that are abominations to Him.

There are a few things in Yahweh's word that He considers to be an abomination. Eating the flesh of animals that He did not create us to eat is one of them.

And with that I will close, may Yahweh bless you all!

End


Miles - Thank you EliYah for your faithful message! Hallelu Yah!
Jay_Emm - \o/\o/\o/\o/\o/ HalleluYah !!! \o/\o/\o/\o/\o/
BrBob - ================ PRAISE YAHWEH!! ================
Daria - ================ PRAISE YAHWEH!! ================
vertygirl - Praise Yahweh!!!!!!!!!
Loving_Je - Hello my fellow brothers and sisters! What exactly do you all believe is essential for salvation?
BrBob - \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ - HALLELUYAH - \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/
BrBill_Angel - HalleluYah!
BrBob - Faith!
Kepha - Thank you Brother EliYah
Bosassyah - HalleluYah!!!! Should one eat only "Kosher" or "Hellel" flesh, that is meat that is killed a certain by draining out the blood??
EliYah - Loving_Je: Obedience to Yahweh and faith in Yahushua if we fail
Jozef_lyd - \o/\o/\o/\o/HalleluY
Dee - pr4aise
EliYah - yes, I believe we should not eat the blood BosassYah
Dee - Yahweh be praise
JamesTrim - EMUNA ("trusting-faithfulness")
TheWay - well put together brother
Bosassyah - Excellent sermon!
BrBob - yes, it was
TheWay - thank you :)
EliYah - Leviticus 17:13 - And whatsoever man there be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, which hunteth and catcheth any beast or fowl that may be eaten; he shall even pour out the blood thereof, and cover it with dust.
EliYah - Leviticus 17:14 - For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.
JamesTrim - ken, drash tov
TheWay - HalleluYAH
Jozef_lyd - What about the "fat" of clean animals? Like using lard ?
EliYah - lard is pig fat
BrBob - That will clog your arteries
EliYah - and is always unkosher
JamesTrim - which is a pig no-no
Dee - what about liver
Jozef_lyd - LOL
Bosassyah - so, meat that is bought in a regular store, probabably has not had the blood drained properly, and therefore we should ear "Kosher" meat??
char - I have question
BrBill_Angel - no puerco, no,no!
Jozef_lyd - What about liverpate
Miles - liver is an organ, not meat.
BrBC - hello tessy
Dee - but it pumps bnlood corect
JamesTrim - meat that you buy in the store is ussually slaughtered using a sledge hammer
BrBob - Let's not get too picky.......this would be better for chat later, methinks.
BrBC - sometimes a pnematic
BrBC - air hammer
EliYah - I don't eat any organs and I avoid eating plain fat. As I understand it, they were to be offered to Yahweh
Miles - We had a neighbor that thought that chapter said you could worship
JamesTrim - poultry is ussually electricuted
Miles - on any day OTHER than the sabbath!
BrBill_Angel - products made with liver from beef are akay if kosher
drexel - agree EliYah
Loving_J1 - What do you all believe is essesential for salvation??? Do you believe in the baptism of the Holyghost with the evidence of Speaking in Tongues, as Acts teaches
Loving_J1 - ??
BrBC - my granny did not electricute any chickens
BrBob - Not me Loving
JamesTrim - Essential for salvation: EMUNA (trusting faithfulness)
Jozef_lyd - If meat bought in a supermarket and is clean to me, and none of you guys are not at my table, and have a clear concious? Am I wrong?
drexel - me neither...I buther and drain those birds
BrBob - hehe.....BC
Loving_J1 - Is this a seventh day adventist chat??
char - what was Yahshua saying and what did he mean when he said what goes in to man does not defile him but what comes out of him is defiled
BrBC - only on the 6th day
JamesTrim - wrong you are refering to meat offered to idols
BrBob - Words
EliYah - At issue in Romans and Corinthians is not clean/unclean animals
BrBob - What the man says
EliYah - but whether or not meat is offered to an idol
BrBC - did i tell you Bob that i could yodle
JamesTrim - the Torah REQURES meat to beslaughtered in the proper way... that is NOT a concsience issue
BrBob - no
BrBC - lol
EliYah - True, James
LouieLoui - NO Loving_J1 it is not...as far as I know.
BrBC - words sang
EliYah - We are all non-denominational believers in Yahushua the Messiah (commonly called Jesus)
BrBC - Tessy are you here my sister
Dee - and speaking in tounges issss not esential
Tessy - yes
Jozef_lyd - What if Kosher meat is not available in the area?
Loving_J1 - Well, I say the name Jesus, thats the same as yashau isn't it?
EliYah - Time to start farming :)
BrBC - ok just wanted to see if you were reading
Tessy - im here. im trying to get my friend to tell me what size her daughter s coat is.
Kepha - Is tofu available
Bosassyah - I think your are right, James Trim, not a conscience issue, bu the Law. And I don't think one is "picky" when trying to understand the Law.
Miles - tofu, yuck!
EliYah - Loving: Yahushua was His name originally, "Jesus" is a later alteration
JamesTrim - you really have to wory about cheese
LouieLoui - Absolutely not Loving J
Tessy - Hi Miles
Tessy - Hi Miles
EliYah - Tell us about Cheese, achi
Miles - Hi Tessy
Loving_J1 - you mean a later translation???
JamesTrim - unless the cheese is Kosher it was almost certainly made using pork
Dee - what chese is kosher Eliyah?
EliYah - Kraft says their USA cheese contains no pork products
Jozef_lyd - What about buying meat from a Muslem butcher?
Bosassyah - Sometimes, cheese has gelatin added to it, which is from the hog
JamesTrim - Kosher cheese is hard to find... you usually have to find a place that carries Kosher meats and such
Tessy - cheese?
Israelite - Hi Bosassyah
Tessy - i thought cheese was made of milk
lory - what is the ingredient called?
EliYah - It's amazing what unclean ingredients you'll find
Dee - heard kraft is kossssher
EliYah - In Cheese, it's rennet and enzymes
JamesTrim - they add things to that milk to get the right kind of bacteria to grow
Tessy - ill be back. i have to go to the store.
Bosassyah - Yes, milk, and sometimes a little gelatin from the hog
Dee - and hellua good is suppose to be too
Tessy - Travis wants a snack
JamesTrim - rennet and enzyms from Mr. Pig
Jozef_lyd - Hello ...Muslem butcher!?
JamesTrim - unless it is Kosher Cheese
drexel - LOL
EliYah - hehe
EliYah - Muslims don't eat pork :)
char - good night all
Tessy - yuck. u be here BC?
drexel - Jozef...ask butcher if he is kosher
Miles - i bet they eat shrimp!
TheWay - night Char
Dee - hahahah
LouieLoui - Good night Char
BrBC - yes
Dee - no they dont
JamesTrim - bottom line is that you do not know what is really in something. If it does not have a kosher symbol on it do not buy it
Tessy - okay illbe 20 min tops
BrBill_Angel - porks stinck, stinck a lot around here, Amish grow them a lot!
Miles - good for them!
Bosassyah - The Muslems, I understand, are aware of the pork problem, and they do slaughter their meats CORRECTLY
Jozef_lyd - Yes they slaughter the Hallel way.
drexel - some kosher marks are not kosher I heard
JamesTrim - Some Kosher marks carry more weight than others
Dee - like jusssssst the K by itself is not
Miles - You mean the Amish are in Isaiah?
Bosassyah - Right, watch the "K" mark on Jello, it is suspect.
drexel - isn't there a kosher chicken and meat placeon the internet...you can order from??
Jozef_lyd - Mushlems don't fall under any BEth din.
JamesTrim - circle k just means that a local Rabbi certified it as Kosher;
JamesTrim - circle U means the Union of orthodox Rabbis certify that it is kosher
Dee - kraft and helluagood cheese i kosher
lory - circle u
JamesTrim - and there are others...hoof K etc.
JamesTrim - kraft cheese is NOT Kosher
EliYah - Not certified
Loving_Je - What is a kosher??
Dee - Yermia called kraft and was told it was
Bosassyah - I guess to be sure one has to go to a Kosher, or Hallel store
drexel - loving...
BrBob - Shalom tingrin !
Miles - a pickle right?
choosenam - hard cheeses from kraft are supposed to be good but not the soft ones
Tessy - im back. i dont have to go..too late! LOL
Kepha - How about Soy cheese?
tingrin - Shalom
Dee - coorect the hard chessseese
BrPoet - and those litle burgers hehehehe
LouieLoui - Shalom
drexel - kosher means "clean" foods....from the clean and unclean food laws.
JamesTrim - to be kosher the cheese would have to contain animal matter from a propeerly slaughtered animal
Bosassyah - or resort to fish:) Soy cheese is OK as far as I know
EliYah - For those of you who are interested, send an email to clean@eliyah.com and you will get a list of unkosher ingredients as well as other kosher information
JamesTrim - moreover if Kraft cheese was kosher they would get the Kosher symbol so they could reach the kosher market
Loving_Je - Yes Jesus loves me, for theBible tells me so!!! Hallelujah!!!
Bosassyah - "Jesus"?
EliYah - I have heard that no cheese made by Gentiles can be certified kosher
Loving_Je - Isn't this a christian chat????
Miles - dont think so EliYah.
Jozef_lyd - Oooops there goes my Gouda.
Dee - Yerminia wouldnt eat anything unclean for sure on that
Tessy - exactly how cheese are made..my mind thinks of pioneer days..curd and all.
tingrin - why does it have to be kosher? Cheese is cheese
choosenam - what is the last part in Halleluyah? Loving?
JamesTrim - this is true of all food. If a person is not Torah observant then they cannot be trusted to care about the process the food goes thru
drexel - LOL...Loving...this is a chatroom....we call the messiah Yahshua ( his Hebrew name),,,not jesus
JamesTrim - since it does not matter to them we cannot expect them to be careful
Loving_Je - what chooseman??don't understand
Bosassyah - Hellaula-YAH, not Hellalu-Je....
EliYah - Ultimately, I think Yahweh would rather us grow our own food and raise our own meat
TheWay - true
JamesTrim - and slaugher it properly
Dee - true on that brother
lory - agree with that too
Tessy - slaughter it properly, meaning?
drexel - Loving.....the fathers hebrew name is YAHWEH...not god...that is a title.
Miles - MOOOOOOOOOOO!
Dee - but most peole live where you cant grow you owwn aniamals
Kepha - And grow our own vegees
drexel - and HalleluYAH means....praise ye Yah
JamesTrim - +Deut 12 21
Loving_Je - I know God is not his name...
drexel - right
choosenam - now do you understand , Loving, that the last part of HalleluYah , is using Yahweh's name?
Loving_Je - Jah??
drexel - we use his hebrew name in this chatroom
lory - no J in Hebrew
TheWay - praise YAHWEH
EliYah - yes, pronounced "Yah"
Dee - jesus is also apagan name
Loving_Je - Why? Donesn't the name Jesus save us still?
Tessy - how do u slaughter an animal?
lory - I would rather use his real name
Loving_Je - Where does that info come from???
Miles - Faith saves, not any Name.
BrBC - i tried to tell her him
Bosassyah - No, Jesus is a Hellenized, false name
Loving_Je - Where does that info come from???
TheWay - mat 1 .21
JamesTrim - The name "Jesus" did not exist until the 1600's did everyonmego to Hell till then?
TheWay - his name
Miles - +acts 2 21
drexel - Loving...read the preface of most bibles...it will tell you there...
Miles - thats a clue...
drexel - or go to a dictionary....look up Yahweh
drexel - Miles...right on
Bosassyah - There is only one name given among men, whereby we must be saved, and it is certainly not "Jesus."
lory - HallelYah
Loving_Je - Yeah, that translation of scripture is not what i have
Tessy - i have in in KJV.
drexel - hmm....
drexel - Loving....
JamesTrim - forget translations... the name "Jesus" is not in the Hebrew, ARamaic or Greek
lory - try a good greek englinsh interlinear New Testament
TheWay - acts 4:12
Miles - EASY PEOPLE!
Bosassyah - The prefaces of some JW bibles will tell you Yahweh is the name!
drexel - read EliYah's page...he can give this info to you...and references to it too
Dee - and you can look up the name Yahweh and get inforemation in the net
TheWay - no other name
believer - +Acts4 12
choosenam - Satan sure does not want people to know the name under which comes salvation
Dee - her one the indian war song
BrBob - Jesus is bogus
EliYah - I believe that if one doesn't know His original name and they call upon the Messiah of the bible for salvation..Yahweh honors that
Bosassyah - Love Ya, anyway!:)
Miles - +acts 4 12
Dee - they knew no englissh
BrBob - EliYah, I know you are right
EliYah - But all are commanded to seek the truth and repent
JamesTrim - and they certainly did not call upon the name of Je-Zeus
Dee - hiyahyah is a word they said all the time
EliYah - If we don't seek
BrBob - Yes they are
EliYah - and don't repent
EliYah - Then we are in trouble
Miles - James, thats not fair!
drexel - AGREED EliYAh
Dee - true
Tessy - I AM THAT I AM
lory - It is hard for many at first to let go of saying "Jesus"
EliYah - and Yahweh IS
Miles - +acts 17 30
BrBill_Angel - men are only responsible for what they know!
Dee - I thought it was neat that they knew Yah was the creator
drexel - we all were at the point of not knowing Yahweh's name once....or should I say some of us ....and we all came into the knowledge at different times
Miles - +acts 17 30
BrBC - what about women
lory - exactly drexel
BrBill_Angel - women also!
Dee - but wad dwarfed by witchery
Miles - Women dont have to repent BC, the KJV says so!
JamesTrim - I have several pictures of Jesus by the way.
Bosassyah - "Men", meaning "Mankind"
drexel - that puts the parable of the workers into prospective
Miles - and they are all different!
JamesTrim - Seems he had blue eyes, blond hair , french-goti beard and wore roman dress
vertygirl - where did you get pictures of jesus?
Tessy - uh uh Miles
Tessy - look at John 3 16
JamesTrim - he was a Torah-violater who did not wear tzitzi...
Tessy - it didnt say just men only.
Miles - +john 3 16
choosenam - What about the shroud of Turin?
BrBill_Angel - the true hebrew Savior had not blue eyes that is an idol
Tessy - +John 3 16
Miles - Good message Eliyah!
choosenam - do any have any thoughts on the shroud of Turin?
Israelite - Eyes like flames of fire
BrBill_Angel - that picture belongs to Zeus
Miles - I have a neighbor that thinks that Romans 14 says that you should worship on any day OTHER than the sabbath, read it in his Daily Bread!!!!
Jozef_lyd - It has been proven scientifically to be a fraud.
Bosassyah - And besides, we should not make pictures of Messiah, anyway, should we?
drexel - he never asked us too did he??
lory - I don't think the early believers did
drexel - just like he didn't ask us to keep his birthday.
Tessy - hmm Thou shall have no graven images before ME
BrBill_Angel - the true one had rugged hebrew features with a real jewish nose a big one!
Miles - just His deathday.......
JamesTrim - we were already keeping his birthday (Sukkot)
drexel - I suppose if he wanted us to do these things....and they were important...he would have told us
Tessy - does anyone actually know when he was born?
Israelite - he was hard to distinguish in a crowd
drexel - exactly miles
Bosassyah - Right. Everyone wants to think that Messiah looked like them...tee hee
lory - in Roman catacombs he was represented as the "Good Shepard"
choosenam - considering the truth is known about the shroud among the people here, what or why has this surfaced?
drexel - he certainally did not have western features.....

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