Transcript of Sabbath Meeting - 08/28/98

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Berean - Our Father in Heaven, Allmighty Creator

Berean - Thank you for this Sabbath that you have given us

Berean - Thank you for the fellowship, and the blessings we enjoy from following you

Berean - Father, we ask you to guide the message in Truth tonight, and to open our ears to Your word

Berean - We pray, that in all things we do, that we have your guidance, and that your will be done

Berean - above all else

Berean - .

Berean - Father we ask this in your Son, our Saviour Yahshua's Name

Berean - HalleluYah!!

EliYah's message:

HalleluYah!
Tonite I would like to share a message that I have shared once before about 8 months ago..but I felt lead to share it again tonite
Some would like to believe that the only thing Yahweh requires of us are Ten Commandments
But let's examine Yahshua's words in the following scripture..

Matthew 4:3 - And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of Elohim, command that these stones be made bread.

Matthew 4:4 - But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of YAHWEH.

According to Yahshua, we should live by EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of Father Yahweh
Surely the word of Yahweh is more than just Ten commandments !
Yahshua was actually quoting from the Law of Yahweh here..

Deuteronomy 8:3 - And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of YAHWEH doth man live.

Yahshua was quite familiar with the word. (In fact He IS the word!)
Now, the devil could quote scripture too

Matthew 4:6 - And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of Elohim, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

But Yahshua was not deceived

Matthew 4:7 - Yahushua said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt YAHWEH thy Elohim.

Where is Yahshua getting this information?

Deuteronomy 6:16 - Ye shall not tempt YAHWEH your Elohim, as ye tempted him in Massah.

From the law of Yahweh
His word
Not the Ten Commandments..but others
Paul also believed in obeying every word that proceeded out of the mouth of Yahweh, not just the Ten Commandments:

Acts 23:4 - And they that stood by said, Revilest thou Elohim's high priest?

Acts 23:5 - Then said Paul, I wist not, brethren, that he was the high priest: for it is written, Thou shalt not speak evil of the ruler of thy people.

And where was he getting this commandment? It certainly wasn't one of the Ten!

Exodus 22:28 - Thou shalt not revile Elohim, nor curse the ruler of thy people.

In fact, if we read the New Testament...it gets its authority and doctrine from Yahshua's words and all of the Law and the Prophets, not just the Ten Commandments.

Romans 9:14 - What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with YAHWEH? By no means.

Romans 9:15 - For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Quoting from..

Exodus 33:19 - And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of YAHWEH before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.

So Paul is backing up a statement by a quote in Yahweh's law
Isn't it interesting that all of these are from the law? (ie the first five books..the Torah)
Here is a great example...

1Cor 5:11 (NKJV) But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person.

now this translation accurately says that we shouldn't "keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral,"
But what defines sexually immoral?
From where does Paul get the information on what is moral and what is immoral?
Is incest, bestiality or homosexuality sexually immoral? OF COURSE! But we surely would have to look further than the Ten Commandments to find this!

Leviticus 18:22 - Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Leviticus 18:23 - Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

Leviticus 18:24 - Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:

Leviticus 18:6 - None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am YAHWEH.

Now let's look at the verse in Corinthians again..

1Cor 5:11 (NKJV) But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person.

Now where in the Ten Commandments does it forbid railing or reviling?
Revile means to regard as vile, to speak evil of or defame another.
David knew this was evil:

Psalms 101:5 - Whoso privily slandereth his neighbour, him will I cut off: him that hath an high look and a proud heart will not I suffer.

Yahweh's law forbid's it, but not in the Ten Commandments

Leviticus 19:16 - Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am YAHWEH.

Continuing in 1cor 5:

1Corinthians 5:12 - For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

1Corinthians 5:13 - But them that are without YAHWEH judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Paul was quoting the Law again here..
But where in the Ten Commandments does it say to "put away from yourselves the evil person"?
Nowhere...
But there are many instances in the law of Yahweh

Deuteronomy 24:7 - If a man be found stealing any of his brethren of the children of Israel, and maketh merchandise of him, or selleth him; then that thief shall die; and thou shalt put evil away from among you.

Now let's examine another scripture..

Romans 10:6 - But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring the Messiah down from above:)

Romans 10:7 - Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up the Messiah again from the dead.)

Romans 10:8 - But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

"The word is near you"
Or kjv.. Nigh thee
Here is yet another scripture quoted from the law that Paul is expecting people to walk in. What is the "word" that is spoken of in this scripture?
Let's look at what is being quoted from..

Deuteronomy 30:11 - For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.

Deuteronomy 30:12 - It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

Deuteronomy 30:13 - Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

Deuteronomy 30:14 - But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Contrary to popular opinion...the law of Yahweh was to be IN THE HEART of the children of Israel!
Some today like to say that it used to be the 'old letter' that was followed, etc
And that today..His law is in our heart
But the same held true in those days also!
continuing..

Deuteronomy 30:15 - See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

Deuteronomy 30:16 - In that I command thee this day to love YAHWEH thy Elohim, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and YAHWEH thy Elohim shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

So what "word" is the scripture speaking of here?? Clearly it is all of Yahweh's commandments, His statutes, and His judgments.
Yahshua is the word..
And He obeyed all of it...every word..
Not just the Ten!
Yahshua kept it perfectly and showed us what righteousness really is!
He is near us..even in our hearts
Thus ALL of His commandments should be also
Let's examine another scripture..

1Corinthians 9:10 - Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

1Corinthians 9:11 - If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

1Corinthians 9:12 - If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the glad tidings of the Messiah.

There is more to this scripture but here we can see that His law is for "Our sakes".
It sure is! And not just the Ten Commandments, but ALL of Yahweh's law. He is not quoting from the Ten Commandments here either!

1Corinthians 9:9 - For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth YAHWEH take care for oxen?

Deuteronomy 25:4 - Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn.

What other scriptures can we find here? There are many

2Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?

2Corinthians 6:15 - Or what harmony has the Messiah with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?

2Corinthians 6:16 - Or what agreement has the temple of YAHWEH with idols? For we are the temple of the living Elohim; just as YAHWEH said, "I will dwell in them and walk among them; and I will be their Elohim, and they shall be My people.

2Corinthians 6:17 - "Therefore, come out from their midst and be separate," says YAHWEH. "And do not touch what is unclean; and I will welcome you.

This is a quote from Isaiah

2Corinthians 6:18 - "And I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me," says YAHWEH Almighty.

Now this is interesting. Where in scripture can we find definitions of what is clean and what is unclean?
Paul obviously assumes that the readers of this letter would know.
We need only look in Leviticus chapters 11 thru 15 to find out what is clean and what is unclean according to Yahweh
What is of significant importance is what unclean things we decide to put in our bodies that Yahweh has given us.
In fact, there are certain unclean things that Yahweh would not want us to touch..let alone eat!
Now some would say that this verse only refers to things that are "Spiritually" unclean and not things that are unclean according to the flesh.
But one need only read the next verse to see that this scripture speaks of what is unclean in spirit AND flesh!

2Corinthians 7:1 - Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of YAHWEH.

A terrible thing indeed...to start a new chapter with the word "Therefore"!
"Therefore" literally means.."Because of this"
So we should cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the FLESH AND SPIRIT. Clearly this is speaking of both.
Now some would like to accuse those who believe in keeping these commandments in Yahweh's law of "Walking in the oldness of the letter".
But what does this really mean?
Obeying the law of Yahweh is not something that is diammetrically opposed to walking in the Spirit:

Ezekiel 36:27 - And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

The works of the flesh are disobedience to the law of Yahweh whereas to walk in the Spirit and have the Spirit living in us is to be living in obedience to the law of Yahweh!
If we are walking in the Spirit then we will not obey the lusts of the flesh.
The Spirit of Yahweh is what helps us to keep His law.
When we are tempted to sin, we can call on Yahweh to help us to overcome by His Spirit.

Romans 7:1 - Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

Romans 7:2 - For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

Romans 7:3 - So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Romans 7:4 - Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of the Messiah; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto YAHWEH.

Those who are in Yahshua are 'dead to the law' that Yahweh gave which does condemn us.
Why? Because the death penalty imposed on us for breaking that law has already been paid by Yahshua the Messiah!
When we repent and are baptized in Yahshua, we have freedom from the death penalty that the law would bring.
We already died to the old man that was bound to keeping that law "PERFECTLY" and are raised up as a new man and walking a new life!
Those who aren't in Yahshua are still under the law of Yahweh. Therefore, they will be held by its penalty for not observing it.
This penalty is eternal death, for the wages of sin is death.
What I have just said is proved out by the following verses...

Romans 7:5 - For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

BEFORE we knew Yahshua, we were in the flesh
The law revealed our sin
Therefore our fruit was unto death

Romans 7:6 - But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

So what does it mean to be serving in the oldness of the letter?
Is it referring to those who have accepted the Messiah and are trying to keep the law of Yahweh?
Certainly not! According to the scriptures here the 'oldness of the letter' is referring to the time BEFORE we accepted the Messiah and we were in the flesh...in our sins!
Indeed...what is sin?

1John 3:4 - Whoever commits sin trangresses also the law, for sin is the transgression of the law.

So walking in the oldness of the letter is SINNING...breaking His law...living apart from the salvation that Yahshua brings!!
Not KEEPING THE LAW or being obedient to the commandments that Yahweh gave!!
In fact, the law is 'spiritual'!

Romans 7:14 - For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

The problem is...'we' are carnal
Again, the wages of sin (breaking the law of Yahweh/transgression of the law) is death
But now, in Yahshua we are freed from the penalty of death that he paid for us
Indeed, this is why the letter kills but the Spirit gives life.
But the law itself is innocent..the law itself is not sin. WE were the guilty party here!

Romans 7:7 - What shall we say then? Is the law sin? By no means. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

And as we have seen..there is more in His law than just the Ten Commandments!
And so now I ask, "will those who continue to walk in sin (breaking the law of Yahweh) after accepting and believing in Yahshua be walking according to the Spirit?"
How can they be??
Yahweh forbid! They are not walking in the Spirit, but are walking in the oldness of the letter by walking in the flesh....breaking His commandments
For the works of the flesh ARE breaking the commandments/sin:

Romans 8:5 - For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Romans 8:6 - For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Romans 8:7 - Because the carnal mind is enmity against YAHWEH: for it is not subject to the law of YAHWEH, neither indeed can be.

So walking according to the flesh is not referring to those who observe the law of Yahweh....but those who break it
For in the above scriptures, walking according to the flesh is the same as being carnally minded.
And being carnally minded is the same as not being subject to the law of Yahweh!
Those who are in Yahshua and are walking in the Spirit are those who believe in keeping the law of Yahweh.
For His word IS Spirit...and is life
If Yahshua is the word and has been the word..then in Him the law of Yahweh speaks

John 6:63 - It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

We can not continue to sin (break the law of Yahweh) so that grace may abound...

Romans 6:1 - What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that favor may abound?

Romans 6:2 - By no means. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Truly, this is insulting the spirit of grace!
Yet, if we do sin, we have an advocate with the Father if we are humble and confess our sins to Him.

1John 2:1 - My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Yahushua the Messiah the righteous.

1John 2:2 - And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

1John 2:3 - Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

Wow..By this we know that we are in Him???
Because the Spirit of Yahweh is in us...causing us to walk in His statutes...

Ezekiel 36:27 - And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

continuing in 1John..

1John 2:4 - He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Strong words my brethren!

1John 2:5 - But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of YAHWEH is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.

1John 2:6 - He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

How did Yahshua walk?
How did Yahshua walk??!?!??!?!?! This should settle everything!
We need to walk as He walked..
Walk as Yahshua walked!!!!!
He's the word, He's the answer here!!
You see, Yahshua fulfilled or "obeyed" the scripture that was speaking of Him.
He obeyed Yahweh's law....PERFECTLY <----- !!!
EVERY WORD

Matthew 4:4 - But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of YAHWEH.

So if Yahshua loved Yahweh with all His heart...
... if He kept the Sabbath, if He kept the feastdays, if He wore tassels, if He ate only clean foods, if He proclaimed the name of Yahweh, if He loved the brethren enough to give His life for them, if He obeyed the Torah/Law ofYahweh...which I KNOW HE DID!!
Then may Yahweh bless those who "walked as He walked" for it is certain that He did these things!!
Contrary to popular Christian doctrine, those who do not wish to do these things are not walking as He walked and are not walking according to the newness of Spirit, but perhaps ignorantly are carnally minded and wish to live in the oldness of letter!!!
The word of Yahweh is death to those who fail to keep it, but is life to those who trust in Yahshua and walk in it.!!
May we all be among those who live according to the Spirit....
those who live by every single word that proceeds out of the mouth of Yahweh..just as Yahshua did!
...not just the Ten Commandments!
May Yahweh bless you all! :)

End

DelaYah - HalleluYAH!!!!!!

buddya - \0/ \o/ \0/ \o/ \0/ halleluYAH \0/ \0/ \0/ \O/ \o/ \o/ praise YAHWEH

YermeYah - Praise YHWH!! :)

Berean - \O/\0/\o/\o/\o/\o/ Praise YHWH!!

Beverley - 0/ \0/ \0/ \0/\0/\0/\0/\0/HalleluYah\0/\0/ \0/

BrHoss - \o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\\o/\o/HALLELUYAH!!!!!!!!\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/

TrustInYHWH - This is not an easy thing to understand.

BrTom - HalleluYah!! \o/ \o/

Angel - Praise YAHWEH

DelaYah - \O/

Beverley - swept clean...then filled with all Torah!!!!

EliYah - I don't think that flesh and blood can reveal these things

DelaYah - {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ TrustInYHWH }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Berean - \o/

Saltire - Amen, and again I say, AMEN! And praise the LORD YHWH.

EliYah - Are there any questions or comments ?

John - Shalom Aleichem.

BrTom - Shalom John

TrustInYHWH - Are you saying that by keeping the Law, we believe that we can be righteous?

Ruth - ...very powerful...

Beverley - Eliyah, you connected the dots..very well.

BrTom - Dots nice!

EliYah - Keeping the law is walking in righteousness

Beverley - We can't be righteous without keeping Torah

EliYah - But we have not kept the law

DelaYah - James 1:23 - For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror;

DelaYah - James 1:24 - for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was.

DelaYah - James 1:25 - But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

EliYah - So we need a savior

Angel - Yahshua a Priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek who is Holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners and made higher than the heavens."He.9:17-26

yosefina - Are you going to post this one on the transcripts again?

Ruth - We should still think about what is unclean for sure! +Jude 1 23

EliYah - Yes yosefine

EliYah - a

TrustInYHWH - but keeping the Law does not justify us, correct?

Ruth - +Jude 1 23

Berean - correct TIY

BrTom - Shalom Elisheba!

yosefina - Thank you. I've never heard the expression of "the oldness of the letter" before. What does someone mean when it is used?

TrustInYHWH - so righteousness does not justify us.

Beverley - Yahusha justified us with His death.

EliYah - It was prophesied in Isaiah and elsewhere that YAHWEH would be our righteousness.. IN Yahshua we are made righteous

Berean - +is 53 11

EliYah - yosefina...many like to say that since we believe in keeping the law, that we are walking in the oldness of the letter

DelaYah - This boils down a matter of obedience and crucifying the flesh

EliYah - But scripture says just the opposite!

BrBob - phone

Beverley - die to sin and be obedient

BrBob - bbl

DelaYah - Yes beverly

DelaYah - HalleluYAH!

Angel - Yahshua being a High Priest neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by His own blood He entered in once into the Holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us:Heb 9:11-12

Beverley - a new sinless creature.

yosefina - I guess what I've heard people say is that we are bound by the law rather than living in grace

Berean - (Isa 53:11 KJV) He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

TrustInYHWH - Define living in grace.

EliYah - We are only bound by keeping the law perfectly if we don't accept Yahshua

DelaYah - John 5:14 - Afterward Yahushua findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

yosefina - I understood your message, and appreciated it! but that little phrase "the oldness of the letter" I don't really understand.

TrustInYHWH - So if we accept Yahshua we need not keep the law perfectly?

EliYah - The letter kills..the law condemned us

Beverley - grace = favor. How do we become favorable to YHWH --obedient to His Commands

EliYah - Not for salvation TIY

EliYah - Without Yahshua we would need to keep it perfectly to be saved

yosefina - TIY, when someone says they are living in grace or under grace, I think they are saying, we don't need to be obedient

Saltire - We are saved by YHWH's grace, i.e., He is gracious to extent salvation to us, right?

EliYah - From birth

Angel - How much more shall the blood of Yahshua, who through the Eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to the Most High, purge your conscience from death causing works to serve the living Elohim? " Heb.9:14

TrustInYHWH - |---------------------righteousness-----------------|----------grace----------| = salvation

BrTom - We are legally bound to obey the law (Torah) on pain of death! If we break the law we must die unless Yahweh accepts a sacrifice on our behalf. He has sent His son to be that sacrifice.

BrHoss - +rom 2 13

EliYah - Yes BrTom eternal death and damnation

BrTom - We must repent of our sins and accept that sacrifice.

TrustInYHWH - so if we do the law we are justified?

DelaYah - HalleluYAh BrTom

BrTom - Yes TIY

DelaYah - not quite TIY

EliYah - The glad tidings of Yahshua have been twisted by the philosphies and doctrines of men!

yosefina - I hear many friend saying they are living in a dispensation of grace, meaning they don't need to even learn what the "jewish" or "mosiac" law is, let alone pay attention to it. They fail to realize it is YHWH's law.. and He changes not!

BrTom - Ready??

Angel - And for this purpose Yahshua is the Mediator of the New testament, that by means of death for the redemption of transgresssions of the first testament those which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance." Heb.9:15

EliYah - Are there any other questions/comments?

DelaYah - Shabbat Shalom Joel! :)

Beverley - WE are justified by the blood of Yahusha. His death. He paid the price of sin

Joel - hello

Saltire - Praise YHWH I found this site. This is more to my understanding of what I read in the bible.

EliYah - HalleluYah !

Beverley - HalleluYah!!!!!!!!!

BrTom - Yes

Angel - HalleluYah!

DelaYah - HalleluYAH! Saltire

Saltire - EliYah, I was somewhat surprised to see you quote Paul.

BrTom - At the same time Yahweh sends his son so that it can be all right in case we do sin...

DelaYah - Paul is our Brother in the Faith

Saltire - I found Qumran.com by an accidental search which located someone's testimony...

EliYah - Paul is misunderstood

BrTom - He sends the Holy Spirit to write the law on our hearts so it is more nearly possible to keep them!! Praise Yahweh!!!

EliYah - And he's an easy target since his writings are so deep

Saltire - ...wherein the author said he found Paul's gospel different from Yeshuah's.

Beverley - BrTom, The soul that sins, that soul shall die. Good thing is we can obtain forgiveness

Ruth - He's easy to misunderstand, that Paul

BrTom - Amem Beverley

BrTom - Amen

DelaYah - HalleluYAH! Beverly!

Saltire - yes, he is, and maybe Pauls' gospel isn't wrong, but "mainstream" Christianity's understanding of it?

Berean - \o/

EliYah - Exactly, Saltire

Beverley - It is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgment

Berean - {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ Saltire }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

TrustInYHWH - Peter talked of the difficulty of understanding Paul.

Ruth - true Saltire!

Caleb - Eliyah can you tell me what you meant by we arent justified by works?

Beverley - Saltire that is a truthful saying!!!!

EliYah - Perhaps I can take this time to share what I believe is the glad tidings of Yahshua?

EliYah - Maybe it would clear it up

crash - please do!!

DelaYah - {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ Saltire }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Saltire - (sigh) I'm among kindred spirits here, then. HalleluYAH!!!!

Ruth - HalleluYah!!!

DelaYah - HalleluYAH!!

TrustInYHWH - +james 2:21

TrustInYHWH - +james 2:22

BrTom - {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Saltire}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

EliYah - It begins with the fact that we are sinners. And that we need to be forgiven for our sins. ALL man has sinned. Not a single man has ever lived a life without sinning (transgressing Yahweh's law)

Joel - work of trust

Berean - (Isa 53:11 KJV) He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be

Berean - satisfied: by His knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear

Joel - not work of flesh

Berean - their iniquities.

EliYah - follow so far?

Beverley - yes Eliyah

TrustInYHWH - +james 2:24

EliYah - 1John 1:10 - If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

Saltire - Rats. Now I'm to have to glue back all of Paul's letters and rethink the conclusion I was coming to.

EliYah - except ONE

TrustInYHWH - +james 2:25

Berean - :o) \o/

EliYah - Hebrews 4:15 - For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

Saltire - which one?

TrustInYHWH - +james 2:26

EliYah - Hebrews 4:15 - For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

EliYah - That one is Yahshua the Messiah. Yahshua lived a perfect life and He came to this earth

EliYah - knowing what He would endure.

BrHoss - +2peter 3 16

EliYah - The prophets in the Old Testament had foretold of this.. but the people of his day rejected him

EliYah - But did He die so that the law of Yahweh could be abolished, thereby making us free from disobedience??

TrustInYHWH - +james 3:2

EliYah - Did Yahshua die to take away the law so we wouldn't have to keep it anymore?

EliYah - That is what is taught today

BrHoss - + matt 5 17

TrustInYHWH - +matthew 15:18

Saltire - Yes, and that's what doesn't seem to fit in my mind.

EliYah - But Yahshua came and died because we broke that law in the first place!

Saltire - hard to convince others, though...

BrHoss - +matt 5 17

EliYah - Now what will our response be? This is the test/

BrHoss - +matt 5 18

EliYah - When we REPENT and get baptized in the name of Yahshua the Messiah, we demonstrate our acceptance of Him and His love.

BrHoss - +matt 5 19

Beverley - There is nothing wrong with the law!! The fault was in the people...

EliYah - Doesn't repentance alone indicate a change taking place?

EliYah - If Yahshua had to die so that we could be forgiven for breaking the law, do we now break His law regularly so that grace may abound?

DelaYah - Welcome peaceful :)

TrustInYHWH - there is one thing wrong with the law...

EliYah - Romans 6:1 - What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that favor may abound?

EliYah - Romans 6:2 - By no means. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

peaceful - Hi Delayah

DelaYah - Hi peaceful :)

DelaYah - How are you?

Ruth - what TIY?

EliYah - As a natural response to His love..do not want to go back to our old ways!

TrustInYHWH - only someone who can keep it perfectly can be justified by it

peaceful - Fantastic enjoying this fellowship

EliYah - Yes, TIY

BrHoss - +rom 7 12

DelaYah - HalleluYAH!EliYah

DelaYah - !

EliYah - There are 2 ways for man to be saved

BrTom - Yes

TrustInYHWH - Yahshua was justified by keeping the law

EliYah - One way is thru keeping the law perfectly all the days of his life

EliYah - This is what Yahshua did

BrHoss - + rom 2 13

EliYah - If we have ever failed, then we cannot be justified by the law

BrHoss - +rom 2 13

EliYah - Because it will only condemn us

EliYah - This is what Paul was trying to get across to all the Jews..

Saltire - Sisters and brothers, you've given me much to think about. I'm encouraged just to be here; I feel YHWH led me here. I need to dwell on what I've learned. But I'll be back. Until then, Shalom B'Yeshua!

peaceful - One of the things that has really helped me to view the idea of the law and sin etc. is that the Torah was not destroyed or altered in anyway in the rituals connected with the sanctuary.

Ruth - Shalom Saltire!

EliYah - that they..who thought they were saved by keeping the law (apart from Yahshua)..were instead condemned by it

BrTom - Shalom Saltire!

EliYah - Shabbat Shalom Saltire :)

Berean - ...L.....i.....e.....la... Saltire ...T.....o.....v.....!...

BrHoss - Happy Trails Saltire

crash - Laila Tov Saltire

Beverley - Sahlom Saltire Layla Tov

EliYah - Does that clear things up, Caleb?

TrustInYHWH - you are saying that when we try to live by the law and a fail, Yahshua is our mediator....

peaceful - The lamb was slain in the courtyard which represents our Messiah.

EliYah - Yes TIY

TrustInYHWH - but if we do not try to live by it, Yahshua cannot mediate

EliYah - When we sin, we have an advocate with the Father

Angel - Yahshua said that if a person wishes to break the commandments like lust, stealing or any others, just the thought of it is a transgression of the Law! He knew, that we are flesh and that is why we cannot keep it to perfection, only Yahshua could, that is why He came, so that He is our RIGHTEOUSNESS BEFORE YAHWEH!

BrTom - Thats true, TIY.

peaceful - But at that time in no case was the torah in the most holy altered or destroyed in any way.

EliYah - If we have no desire for obedience, how can the Spirit be in us which "causes us to walk in His statutes"

Berean - +2joh 1 6

DelaYah - John 16:7 - Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

DelaYah - John 16:8 - And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Caleb - i believe i understand what you mean but still it says that we are justified by works i James 2:24, doesn't that mean we are justified by obedience?

BrHoss - y

BrTom - And His commandments are not grievous.

DelaYah - And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Ruth - Kinda makes it crystal clear who is walking in the Spirit!

DelaYah - \O/

EliYah - James' point is that our faith must be a working faith to be TRUE faith

EliYah - Not just an empty acknowledgement

TrustInYHWH - if we do not live by the law, then we cannot sin and receive mediating through Yahshua

BrHoss - +james 2 22

yosefina - Shalom yall...it's late here

BrHoss - Happy Trails yosefina

EliYah - Shalom..we better get to our closing prayer

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