07/26/2002 Sabbath Meeting Transcript


"Philosophies & Doctrines of Men"


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Germeyah - Though I now believe total indifference to it is very much bad (Thinks about his Christian brothers)
Germeyah - Is Lillith in the Torah?
donnee - Shabbat shalom Michael
Jozef_Lydia - Heavenly Father YAHWEH, King of All Universes, we Extoll you and magnify your Holy Name. the only name by which people can be saved.
Jozef_Lydia - We thank you Abba [Father] for this YOUR day, Your Shabbat, and we ask humbly for Your Shalom [peace] upon us, and within us, on every one in this room.
Jozef_Lydia - We humbely bow before , and we ask forgiveness for all our sin and tresspasses the know and unknown ones, we all have our short-comings in this life.
Jozef_Lydia - But please cleanse us that somehow we may be found worthy to come into Your presence.
Jozef_Lydia - Life is not always a path over rose pebbles, and there are many times we struggle and stumble, are tempted or are wronged.
Jozef_Lydia - We were longing for Your presence here today, in this chatroom, and we pray for Your HOLY SPIRIT to be upon, and ~~ IN ~~ each one gathered here tonight/today.
Jozef_Lydia - That we may be tuned into ONE-ness in Spirit with You.
Jozef_Lydia - To forget if only for a moment the worldly "things" and the problems and cares that have so easaly beset us. .
Jozef_Lydia - It is a blessing to commune with your people, and other seekers for thruth, that You have brought together, to discuss Your Word, and to share Your promises, our hopes.
Jozef_Lydia - We thank You that You have provided for our daily needs and YOUR outpour of heavenly provisions, for all our sustenance in a Spiritual, Physical way.
Jozef_Lydia - Help us all to go , through the process of 'repentance' or 'turning around' from all our past sin and all our dead works, and to be delivered from any worldly temptation that we are confronted with each day.
Jozef_Lydia - We are truly thankfull for the spiritual table that is set before us today, and pray Your blessing upon the speaker and the words he is about to share.
Jozef_Lydia - We humbly petition this in the name of our advocate 'Yahushua' who makes intercessions before You on our behalf, O Yahweh, and thank You again for everything.
Jozef_Lydia - Omeyn, So be it, HalleluYah

EliYah's message:

HalleluYah!!

Tonight I would like to talk about the dangers of philosophies and doctrines of men.

Let's begin by examining a common philosophy that is stated in many books and sermons. It goes something like this..

This is very common philosophy states that we are sinners. What sin might be really is decided by what standard of righteousness the denomination you ascribe yourself to might have.

This philosophy often states that we need to be saved from our sins and from having to keep the law.

The philosophy states that once a person accepts the Messiah, they don't have to obey Yahweh's law anymore because the Messiah died to 'set us free' from the law.

Therefore anyone trying to keep Yahweh's commandments are 'estranged from the Messiah' and 'under a curse' according to their philosophy

But I have found this philosophy to be a philosophy and tradition of men

To begin with...why would Yahweh create a standard of righteousness that He expects all mankind to follow, only to dismantle the standard at a later time?

Is Yahweh a respector of persons? Why would Yahweh require a person in Yahushua to walk in a different standard than the unbelievers?

Does Yahweh indeed have a 'double standard'? One standard for unbelievers, who must heed to all of the law and another standard for believers who only need observe certain selected portions?

I think not.

Yahushua came to this earth to save us from our sins, this is true and nearly all agree on that.

But what is sin?

1John 3:4 - Whoever commits sin trangresses also the law, for sin is the transgression of the law.

Therefore, if one were to transgress Yahweh's law, they would be sinning

The philosophy of men says that is not so

But the word of Yahweh is truth. If one denies this, then they deny the word of Yahweh.

So what are the true glad tidings?

It begins with the fact that we are sinners. And that we need to be forgiven for our sins. ALL man has sinned. Not a single man has ever lived a life without sinning (transgressing Yahweh's law)

1John 1:10 - If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

All have sinned..except ONE

Hebrews 4:15 - For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

That one is Yahushua the Messiah. Yahushua lived a perfect life and He came to this earth knowing what He would endure

Luke 9:22 - Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.

When He was on this earth as a man He said many astonishing things

Luke 4:32 - And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power.

He is the only begotten Son of Yahweh

John 1:18 - No man hath seen the Father at any time; the only begotten Son, which was in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

The prophets in the Old Testament had foretold of this.. but the people of his day rejected him

And most still do

Isaiah 53:5 - But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Yahushua endured this willingly... Because He loves His Father so much and He loves us so much.

He was willing to do whatever His Father asked of Him.

But why was it necessary for Him to die?

Did He die so that the law of Yahweh could be abolished, thereby making us free from our disobedience?

Sadly, this is what the philosophy of men teaches

The truth is, Yahushua came and died because we broke that law in the first place.

How dare we return to the condition that caused Yahushua's death?

Once we have humbled ourselves

and acknowledged and confessed our sins..and repented

Does Yahushua care what we do from there?

Is Yahushua at all concerned about our works?

To the seven assemblies He said:

Revelation 2:2 - "I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars;

Revelation 2:9 - "I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

Revelation 2:13 - "I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan's throne [is]. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.

Revelation 2:19 - "I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first.

Revelation 3:1 - "And to the angel of the assembly in Sardis write, `These things says He who has the seven Spirits of YAHWEH and the seven stars: "I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.

Revelation 3:8 - "I know your works. See, I have set before you an open door, and no one can shut it; for you have a little strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name.

Revelation 3:15 - "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot.

In all 7 assemblies, Yahushua was concerned with their works. He warned many of them that unless they repent, they would be in a heap of trouble

Now who would rebuke the Messiah of Yahweh for focusing too much on works?

You see, when we REPENT and get baptized in the name of Yahushua the Messiah, we demonstrate our acceptance of Him and His love.

Shouldn't repentance alone indicate a change taking place?

If Yahushua had to die so that we could be forgiven, should we now break His law regularly so that grace may abound?

Romans 6:1 - What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that favor may abound?

Romans 6:2 - By no means!! How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

So we are not to live in sin (transgression of the law) any longer

As a natural response to His love..we do not want to go back to our old ways

2Peter 2:22 - But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire."

Oh let us flee from and expose that wretched wicked doctrine that says we can return to the vomit!

If we love HIM, we should want to show our love for Him by walking in obedience to His law.

John 14:15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 14:16 - And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 - Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

His word and His example shows us how to love Him and to love one another. We will naturally have a desire to do what pleases Him..

Therefore, we are warned in scripture not to follow after these empty philosophies that tell us to stray from the law of Yahweh.

What we have in this age is MUCH tradition that we have inherited from our fathers!

I believe we must diligently question these traditions in light of scripture.

Let's now examine a text often used to uphold their false tradition..

Colossians 2:8 - Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after the Messiah.

From what I have read, this is what the remaining section of Colossians chapter 2 is all about.

This theme remains constant throughout but men have tried to say the traditions are Yahweh's commandments rather than the commandments and traditions of men.

There are traditions that we have inherited such as the expectation that we observe Sunday worship, Christmas, Easter, Lent, etc as well as calling our Creator and the Messiah by false names.

This is what we need to "BEWARE" of, not the law of Yahweh!

We are expected to live by "every word" that proceeds out of His mouth..not just "new testament" words

Matthew 4:4 - But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of YAHWEH.

continuing in Colossians..

Colossians 2:9 - For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the might in bodily form.

Colossians 2:10 - And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

So we need other doctrines because we are complete in Yahushua who is the head of all. We are complete in Him. We don't need anything that men might invent.

Colossians 2:11 - In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of the Messiah:

In Yahushua, we are circumcised in the heart by His blood covering our sins thereby seperating us from our sins.

Colossians 2:12 - Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of YAHWEH, who hath raised him from the dead.

We buried the old man and we are now a new creation so we shouldn't be going back to any old traditions and philosophies. This is primarily Paul speaking to the Colossians who were previously in pagan worship

But were not many of us also involved in such worship before we knew better?

Colossians 2:13 - And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Colossians 2:14 - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

When we are forgiven of our sins, those old traditions, doctrines and ordinances of men which are AGAINST us are taken out of the way.

They have no power over us any longer if we are in Yahushua. Do these ordinances have power over men who are without Yahushua? Yes they do! They enslave men to sin.

Romans 6:16 - Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Romans 6:17 - But YAHWEH be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

The true doctrine delivers us from the false

Romans 6:18 - Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Colossians 1:13 - Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Therefore, the power that these doctrines of men had over men were nailed to the tree along with our sins for when we are forgiven for our sins, we are also set free from their hold on us.

Anyone who has repented and accepted Yahushua after a lifetime of sin can attest to this fact

But now the question is asked: "What ordinances of men is Paul specifically speaking of?"

Paul will expand on this in verses 18 and 21--but for now....lets go to the next verse..

Colossians 2:15 - And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

He overcame and disarmed the spirits of darkness, the evil angels. He triumphed over the author of these things, Satan and all his powers.

He Put them to an open shame by triumphing over them in his resurrection and ascension.

My question to mainstream christianity is, "If verse 14 was speaking of blotting out Yahweh's commandments then why in the next verse is it talking about disarming Satan?"

Yahweh is the author of the true commandments. Satan is the author of the Pagan doctrines/ordinances that Paul speaks of.

Colossians 2:16 - Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Colossians 2:17 - Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body of the Messiah.

These 2 verses are a favorite among those who hold to a torahless tradition

But please notice that the scripture says these things ARE a shadow of things to come.

Not WERE a shadow but ARE (present day) a shadow.

It is true that we will be keeping these things in Yahweh's kingdom and the keeping of them will be enforced upon all (See Zech. 14, Isa 66)

Lets examine this text in the King James Version

In verse 17

Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Messiah

In this verse I believe the translator did not understand or had a biased opinion about what the greek text meant.

Remove the [is] from the text and you will get..

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, drink, etc (which are a shadow of things to come) BUT THE BODY OF MESSIAH.

So let only the body of Messiah judge us in these matters, not the pagans and philosophers

Some modern translations choose not to translate this greek word as 'Body'

Some choose words like "substance" or "reality"

The New American Standard, the New King James Version, the New Revised Standard and others have "Substance"

The New International Version, the New American Bible and others have "Reality"

Of all the modern translations, only a few such as the King James Version translate the word "Body" in verse 17 correctly. The NIV totally butchers this verse.

The word "body" in verse 17 does mean "body". It is Strong's #4983. Look it up and see for yourself. In the King James Version this word is translated "Body" 144 out of 146 times

The other two instances are "Bodily" and "Slave"

The "Slave" instance in Revelation 18:13 could just as easily be translated "Body"

Revelation 18:13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

"slaves"

Other translations consistently translate this word "Body" except in Colossians 2:17

Why the change?

Yahweh knows.. but we must beware of these philosophies that do away with the word of Yahweh

Now to further prove that He was talking about the body of believers..let us continue to the next verse where this SAME word is translated "body" once again..this time accurately in most translations:

Colossians 2:18 - Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

Colossians 2:19 - And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of Elohim.

Is this not more consistent with the meaning "Body of Messiah" in verse 17? Yes!

So we should let only the body of the Messiah judge us! Can we as brethren in Messiah judge each other? Certainly!

1Corinthians 5:11 - But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

1Corinthians 5:12 - For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

1Corinthians 5:13 - But them that are without YAHWEH judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Does a man not have to pass some judgement on his brother when he sees his brother in sin? Of course! But when this is the case, we must restore this man in gentleness:

Galatians 6:1 - Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted.

So we should not let the promoters of vain philosophy and deceit judge us in keeping Yahweh's law!

This indicates that the Gentiles in Colosse were keeping Yahweh's commandments as they should. Please consult any greek new testament to verify that what I am saying is true!

"Body of Messiah" !

Colossians 2:10 - And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Colossians 2:18 - Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

Colossians 2:19 - And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of Elohim.

See how the theme remains constant throughout?

Yahweh's commandments verses the commandments and doctrines of men

We must hold to the Head of the Body..Yahushua. He kept all the commandmnets

He is our great example..He is the one who KEPT Yahweh's law.

Therefore, these verses are good summary: Stand fast in Yahweh's commandments and shun the commandments and doctrines of men. What commandments/ordinances of men was Paul referring to specifically? Let's see

continuing..

Colossians 2:20 - Wherefore if ye be dead with the Messiah from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

Remember back in verse 14 when we asked, "What ordinances of men?" These are among the 'ordinances' that were blotted out:

That rudiments of the world?

What rudiments of the world?

Colossians 2:21 - (Touch not; taste not; handle not;

Colossians 2:22 - Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

commandments and doctrines of MEN

Again, these are the ordinances of men that were blotted out. Taken out of the way..They are all commandments and doctrines of men. NOT Yahweh's commandments.

To further prove this point, let us look at the greek words that are translated "ordinances" in this verse and in the earlier "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances" verse

Colossians 2:14 - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

In verse 14 the greek word that is translated "ordinances" is the greek word "Dogma" which means "ordinances"

Colossians 2:20 - Wherefore if ye be dead with the Messiah from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

In verse 20 the greek word that is translated "be subject to ordinances" is "Dogmatizo" which means "be subject to ordinances"!

Thus, we see again that the theme of Colossians 2 remains consistent throughout

continuing..

Colossians 2:23 - Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

These ordinances live on today in the form of asceticisms and such that are found in Hinduism and other religions

Colossians 3:1 - If ye then be risen with the Messiah, seek those things which are above, where the Messiah sitteth on the right hand of YAHWEH.

Colossians 3:2 - Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

Colossians 3:3 - For ye are dead, and your life is hid with the Messiah in YAHWEH.

So in conclusion, Paul is saying that we should beware lest any man spoil us through these commandments, philosophies and doctrines of men. For Yahushua took them out of the way and nailed them to the tree thereby forgiving us for accepting them.

Because of this we should let no man judge us for keeping Yahweh's commandments unless they are a part of the body of the Messiah. Therefore we should hold fast to the Head of that body, namely Yahushua from whom we are nourished and do not subject ourselves to pagan ordinances

For even though these have an appearance of wisdom, they are of no value. So we should set our minds on things above, not on the things of the world.

So we should not let any man judge us for keeping His Holy days and Sabbaths.

For the rewards from Yahweh are not in being disobedient..but obedient.

So let's be wise therefore and not subject ourselves to the pagan philosophies

nor the pagan ordinances that the fathers have adopted and handed down

But let us walk in the law of Yahweh.. and delight in His ways!

Psalms 119:1 - Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of YAHWEH.

And we will be blessed!!

Psalms 119:2 - Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.

I do not believe these verses are lies!

It is the doctrines of men that are lies

Therefore, let us seek Yahweh!

Jeremiah 29:13 - And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

Let us truly live by "Every word" .. not gauging ourselves by what others do.. but by what Messiah has done, knowing that we should walk in His steps

Yahushua kept the Torah/law fully. Therefore, let's always examine our walk in light of His law, His Son..not forgetting what manner of men we are.. but being lovers of Yahweh..followers of Yahushua ...

and doers of the WORD.

May Yahweh bless you and may He have mercy on us all!

End


donnee - \o/\o/\o/\o/\o/ HalluleYah Eloah my Elohim \o/\o/\o/\o/\o/
Yahuwthah - peace and happy shabboth in Yahweh Yahuwshu`a
Jozef_Lydia - Praise Yahweh for righteousness and fairness, His mercy endures forever. May He indeed guide us through Yahushua's [ His Word, our head, and light on our path] HalleluYah \o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/
dbent777 - HalleluYAH
rockywhy - HalleluYah, I say HalleluYah, I say HalleluYah. All the Glory, I say all the Glory, I say all the Glory to Him. Thank you for the Word Father and Son. Thank you EliYah for such a meaningfull word. May Yahweh bless you for sharing.
downlo - HalleluYAH!!
Yahuwthah - halleluw Yahu
Kefa - Yes we will be blessed if we keep his Torah. Praise Yehweh for this teaching!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
donnee - Shabbat shalom Hupernika
BroMac - HalleluYAH
bpenwell - Praise YahWeh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hupernika - thank you donnee and shabbat shalom to all!
donnee - Shabbat shalom VictoryYAH
Jozef_Lydia - ((((((((((((((((((((((( VictoryYah ))))))))))))))))))))))))))
haborul - Hallul Yah thank you for the good teaching
Jozef_Lydia - Shabbat shalom Hupernika
VictoryYAH - Shabbat Shalom Yahweh's family :-)
Jozef_Lydia - Shabbat shalom Jamie
donnee - {{{{{{{{{{{{VictoryYAH}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
dbent777 - Praise YAHUEH and his Son YAHUSHUA
BroMac - Shabbat Shalom to all
Kefa - Shabbat shalom VictoryYah
EliYah - Shabbat Shalom newcomers
vgmc - I'm not so sure I should be searching for a wife among those who "say" they are believers
haborul - shabbos shalom to all
Kefa - Shabbat Shalom BroMac
dbent777 - SHABBOT SHALOM AND GOODNIGHT ALL
Jozef_Lydia - Shabbat shalom dbent777
Germeyah - What are the verses about the Sabboth?
downlo - +psa 105 3
Germeyah - Sabbath
Kefa - Shabbat Shalom dbent
lourens - Shabbat Shalom
EliYah - GermeYah, see http://www.eliyah.com/sabbath.html
Germeyah - Thank you sir
Kefa - Shabbat Shalom lourens how are you?
Germeyah - NIV does butcher verses by the way
Germeyah - Psalm 8:8
Kefa - long time no see
Germeyah - +psa 8:8
vgmc - Marriage within the "faith" seems to be only among established families in the Body that were families before their conversion(s)
Germeyah - odd
Jozef_Lydia - ((((((((((((((((((((((( Angel )))))))))))))))))))))
BrBill_Angel - EliYah, what is the address for the wavs>
EliYah - eliyah.com/wavs
Yahuwthah - we need to be aware that if we bind ourselves with the old covenant fleshly ordinances, we are tying on a yoke that our fathers could not bear. And if we err in His name, and continue with the wine and beer of Bavel's fornication, our religion will become do this, do that, a little from this line, a little from that line, so we will be ensnared, fall, and perish, as Isaiah made clear.
BrBill_Angel - thank you EliYah
vgmc - I am not part of an established physical family in the Body
Elyakim - Praise YAHWEH!!!!!!!! The spirit of truth truly hath spoken you Eliyah!
Yahuwthah - happy shabboth
donnee - Agreed thank you EliYah
EliYah - The yoke our fathers could not bear was the idea of keeping the law to be saved. We are saved through Yahweh's righteousness
haborul - which ones are the old covenant fleshly commandments are fathers couldnt bare?
BrBill_Angel - shalom Yahuwthah!
Yahuwthah - peace
haborul - what is bavels fornication?
donnee - through His Life
Pamela - Shalom Daniel
daniel - shalom
Pamela - Shalom surrender
donnee - Shabbat shalom surrender, daniel
vgmc - 11 years after baptism has taught me that they have no intention of me being their "in-law" in any case
Yahuwthah - the baggage many of us still carry, false information from our old religions which were acquired from paganism incorporated by the whore
surrender - shalom
Dan_95670 - Shalom daniel
haborul - oh
downlo - Shabbat Delight All :) goodnight
downlo - +phile 1 3
Pamela - shalom downlo
daniel - does www.6001.com get new programs monthly Dan?
BrBill_Angel - !rs
Yahuwthah - this is the wine of Catholicisms assimilation of pagan religions, which is the filth of its spiritual fornication
vgmc - These same people try to get me to compromise on the Word of Yahweh. Case in point...
Elyakim - shalom dowmlo

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