06/24/2005 Sabbath Meeting Transcript

In tonight's study we will discuss what the scriptures have to say about the true character of the Father, Yahweh; And His Son, the Messiah and our Savior, Yahushua.

Most of the Christian world tells us that we worship a trinity.

In fact, most of the Christian world will tell you that unless you believe in the "Holy Trinity", you have no salvation and are part of a "cult"

Since they do place such great importance on this doctrine, it is certainly needful to be certain that it is corrects

(correct)

When I speak of the Trinity, I refer to the belief that the one we worship is one "God" (Elohim), manifested in three persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit), all of which are co-equal in greatness

Whatever we believe, it must not contradict any scripture

But when going further into this subject with one who believes a trinity, they often like to explain away some of the contradictory scriptures with saying:

"It's just one of the great mysteries of the faith"

This belief is a mystery indeed. 3 is 1 yet 1 is all three, yet the 3 are all 1 while 1 is still all 3?

Much of the basis of this belief concerns the use of the title "God" (from the Hebrew word "Elohim")

The word "God" is the most overused word in trying to prove the Trinity doctrine.

In fact, the word is a source of much confusion overall

I came to understand that this word "Elohim" (translated "God") has meanings other than 'the supreme being'

Here are some examples where the word "Elohim" or "El" is found in the Hebrew, but it is not translated "God"

Exodus 21:6 - Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

In the above verse, it is translated "judges"

Jonah 3:3 - So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of YAHWEH. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey.

In the above verse, it is translated "Exceeding"

Proverbs 3:27 - Withhold not good from them to whom it is due, when it is in the power of thine hand to do it.

In this verse, it is translated "power"

Nehemiah 5:5 - Yet now our flesh is as the flesh of our brethren, our children as their children: and, lo, we bring into bondage our sons and our daughters to be servants, and some of our daughters are brought unto bondage already: neither is it in power of our hands; for other men have our lands and vineyards.

And in this verse, it is also translated "Power"

The context of these verses do not give support to the idea that "Elohim" means "God"

What this reveals is the the Hebrew word "Elohim" has a much broader use and meaning than the English word "God"

Therefore "God" isn't a particularly accurate translation of the Hebrew word "Elohim" and translating it as such can cause quite a bit of confusion

We could see where the concept of "Mighty" or "Mighty ones" would fit well with each of these verses.

There may not be a fully accurate translation.. but I think that may be the closest. Nevertheless, I prefer to retain "Elohim" since I know I cannot go wrong with that

When someone says "God" today, what generally comes to mind is "The Supreme being". But we can see that Hebrew "Elohim" has different shades of meaning

Some might say this is being 'too picky'.

But it is important! According to the data I have, this word (in various verbal forms) is found 2606 times in the Masoretic Hebrew text

In fact, 32% of all verses in the book of Deuteronomy contain this word. With such a common word, is it not very important that what is chosen to translate it is as accurate as possible?

Certainly. If "God" then is not the best translation of "elohim" then this is probably the most mistranslated word in all of scripture.

Has this mistranslation had any affect on doctrine? My answer would be "yes". Consider the common logic of those who espouse the trinity doctrine:

The Father is "God"

The Son is "God"

The Holy Spirit is "God"

There is only 1 "God"

Thus, we must have a 3 in 1 "God".

The logic continues that the Messiah could not be a lesser "god" or another "god", thus He must also be equal with the Father as "God" and 1/3rd of "God".

Similar logistics are used in the "oneness" doctrine

The truth is that "Elohim" is a title that describes Yahweh just as the words "King" or "Master" are titles which describe Yahweh.

"Elohim" is not an exclusive word that can only be attributed to the Heavenly Father Yahweh

Or to the Messiah for that matter

The word "El" or "Elohim" is also used to describe men, angels and yes, Yahushua also.

Scripturally, it is certain that Father Yahweh is supreme and above all things. But all things, all power and authority have been "given" to Yahushua.

Father Yahweh is the giver of all life, the source of all things. From HIM all things flow. All life, all love, all Spirit

It is written ..

Deuteronomy 6:4 - Hear, O Israel: YAHWEH is our Elohim, YAHWEH is one:

I believe in this scripture, Yahweh is definitely ONE. But was Yahweh making a doctrinal statement here?

What is the meaning of "One" in this verse?

In Hebrew, it is the word "Echad".

It is also found in this verse:

Genesis 2:24 - Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

In this case, we see two becoming one

It is a plural unity nonetheless

This is true in a number of other scriptures:

Genesis 11:6 - And YAHWEH said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

Yahweh said that the people are "one" (Echad) even though there were many.

Does this mean that Yahweh Himself is a plurality?

Not necessarily. It can also mean one as in a number, as this verse illustrates. They had "one" speech

So from what I see in the use of this word "echad", Deuteronomy 6:4 cannot be used to prove the trinity, oneness or other such doctrines

I do believe that Yahushua shed light on it, however:

When He was praying in the garden...

John 17:20 - Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

(That's us!)

John 17:21 - That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Yahushua prays that we may be one as Yahweh and Yahushua are one.

He also prays that we may be "one" in them!

Can we be one as Yahweh and Yahushua are one?

Can we be one with them?

Yes

Does this mean we are all co-equal with the Father and His Messiah?

No, of course not

Father Yahweh is above all

This verse alone wipes out the trinity concept.

For if we can be one as Yahweh and Yahushua are one, and we can be one in them.. then the "three in one God" should include us as well!

Brethren, it is not one as in a 'number', but one in unity of thought and will and purpose.

When our way is Yahweh the Father's way...we are one with Him. But this does not mean that we or Messiah are to be considered equal to Him?

There is no disunity within Him. There are no disagreements between Yahushua and Yahweh. They are one in purpose and in thought

And we can share that oneness with them, when we are in submission to Yahweh as Yahushua is even today. HalleluYah!

Now the very essence of the word "Father" is one that describes a giver of life.

Yahushua referred to Father Yahweh as such, as do we.

Yahweh the Father is truly the giver of life. The Giver of Life must be, by nature, greater than the one who receives it

The one who is the ultimate Giver of Life must be the Supreme Being who started it all!

Yahushua said:

John 17:3 - And this is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true Elohim, and Yahushua the Messiah, whom thou hast sent.

Yahushua called Him (Yahweh the Father) the only true Elohim.

In one sense this is true, for all "might/power" (the meaning of Elohim) proceeds from Him.

But others (who have might/power) can also be called "Elohim" as we have previously shown

Some might say that this scripture doesn't apply anymore because Yahushua speaking "before He was glorified" and/or "He is only speaking from His earthly state."

But this is human reasoning, not found in scripture. We must beware of human reasoning and explaining away. There is no scripture stating that Yahushua was "just speaking from His earthly state"

They say that it was just for that time when He was on earth and that now Yahushua is a part of Elohim fully

O beware of reasonings that disregard the words of our Master! What did Yahushua call His Father AFTER His resurrection and ascension? His co-equal?

Revelation 3:12 - "He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My Elohim, and he shall go out no more. And I will write on him the name of My Elohim and the name of the city of My Elohim, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My Elohim. And I will write on him My new name.

No, Father Yahweh is 4 times STILL His Elohim.

Father Yahweh was and is very clearly the Elohim (Mighty One) of Yahushua

Next time someone tells you that Yahushua is co-equal with Yahweh the Father ask them who Yahushua's Elohim is

Then watch them dance around when you quote this verse which clearly contradicts their doctrine

Brethren, it has not changed; Father Yahweh is still the Elohim of Yahushua and therefore greater than He, just as Yahushua said.

John 14:28 - Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

We can choose to ignore, explain away or believe what Yahushua says. Why not just believe Him?

What has took place after Yahushua's resurrection is that Yahweh exalted Yahushua above all. Yahushua said it so plain:

John 10:27 - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

John 10:29 - My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

All things are "given" to Yahushua by the Father and Yahweh is greater than all.

He who has the power to grant them is by nature greater than Yahushua. He is truly greater than all!

I do not take honor from Yahushua in saying this. Yahushua said it Himself!

Matthew 19:17 - And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, YAHWEH: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Even Yahushua had to recognize that any goodness He had came from the Father.

Therefore, I do not take honor from Yahushua in saying this.

In fact, Yahushua is worthy of praise, honor and yes.. "Worship".

In this I will elaborate later but for now let's consider the position of Yahushua after all things are completed.

After death is defeated and we are with Him. Will he be co-equal to the Father? Let's see:

1Corinthians 15:20 - But now is the Messiah risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1Corinthians 15:21 - For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

1Corinthians 15:22 - For as in Adam all die, even so in the Messiah shall all be made alive.

1Corinthians 15:23 - But every man in his own order: the Messiah the firstfruits; afterward they that are the Messiah's at his coming.

1Corinthians 15:24 - Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to YAHWEH, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

1Corinthians 15:25 - For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

1Corinthians 15:26 - The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

1Corinthians 15:27 - For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

Who put all things under Yahushua? Who is this One who is "excepted"?

Who is excepted? The Father is excepted, who is greater than all.

He is the one who put all things under Yahushua because He is above all. He is the only one who could!

Continuing..

1Corinthians 15:28 - And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that YAHWEH may be all in all.

So Yahushua will be subject to Father Yahweh in a future time..even as now. And this is the blessing of order.

1Corinthians 11:3 - But I would have you know, that the head of every man is the Messiah; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of the Messiah is YAHWEH.

Now let's look into this matter of worship

Now let's look into this matter of worship

Some "dualists" say that one should not worship Yahushua.

Let me first say that I'm not a "dualist", nor do I believe in "oneness", "trinity" or any other self titled belief

For I find they all have flaws

There are scriptures which clearly contradict each of these doctrines

So I just choose believe in whatever all the scriptures have to say about the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and leave it at that.

Yet will even say that if you do worship Yahushua, you are committing idolatry

Let's examine this in light of scripture:

Matthew 28:16 - Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Yahushua had appointed them.

Matthew 28:17 - And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

We see here that the disciples worshipped Yahushua

At least 11 times it is recorded as such. And Yahushua accepted such and did not forbid them. Why?

Let's look at what He said two verses later:

Matthew 28:18 - And Yahushua came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

All power is GIVEN to Yahushua in heaven and earth, HalleluYah! He who had the inherent authority and greatness to give it was the Father

Who gave it to the Father? Nobody, for He is SUPREME and above all

But He gave all power to Yahushua the Messiah

Yahushua is WORTHY for He overcame the world and in Him there is LIFE and Salvation!

And we would do well not to place Him in a lower place in our hearts than we ought. After all, He has power and authority over all of us!

The fact that Yahushua was worshiped, what does this prove?

Does it mean that He is the supreme being, equal to the Father?

First of all, please understand that in Hebrew the word "worship" means to "Bow down"

In fact, men worshipped David!

It is true, scripture says that men worshiped David and David said nothing.

Now, it is true that people didn't go to the temple to worship David

And it is true that they didn't worship David while in their homes, etc

But when coming in the presence of David, they did

David was the anointed of Yahweh. The word anointed is "Mashiach" or Messiah.

Now David was not Yahweh but he represented and was the authority over Yahweh's kingdom of Israel.

2Samuel 14:4 - And when the woman of Tekoah spake to the king, she fell on her face to the ground, and did obeisance, and said, Help, O king.

2Samuel 14:5 - And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, I am indeed a widow woman, and mine husband is dead.

Here, the word used for obeisance is also translated 'Worship' 99 other times in scripture

Here is another place:

1Chronicles 29:20 - And David said to all the congregation, Now bless YAHWEH your Elohim. And all the congregation blessed YAHWEH Elohim of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped YAHWEH, and the king.

They worshipped Yahweh AND THE KING

Now, before anyone gasps.. read this:

Revelation 3:9 - "Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie--indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.

Interesting, yes?

We will reign with Messiah, and be kings and priests (if we are accounted worthy)

We need to have a scriptural view of what worship is and what it really means

To bow before someone is to recognize that they are in a position of authority over you

Yahushua refused to bow before satan, as should we all

Consider also the psalm:

Psalms 45:6 - Thy throne, O Elohim, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

This is a psalm speaking of Yahushua the Messiah. It is quoted as such in the book of Hebrews:

Hebrews 1:8 - But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O Elohim, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.

Notice that the Son is called "Elohim" here

Continuing..

Psalms 45:7 - Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore Elohim, thy Elohim, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Here again, even though the Messiah is called "Elohim"... Yahushua's Elohim is none other than Father Yahweh.

The verse clarifies the true Elohim. HIS (Yahushua's) Elohim..the Father

This is consistent with the verses we examined previously where Yahushua calls the Father His Elohim.

Psalms 45:8 - All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad.

Now this is an allegory of Yahushua and His assembly

Psalms 45:9 - Kings' daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir.

Psalms 45:10 - Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also thine own people, and thy father's house;

Psalms 45:11 - So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Master; and worship thou him.

This shows that it is acceptable to worship Yahushua; He is our Master and represents Yahweh and His kingdom.

There is no other like Him. He even shares the Father's omnipresence:

Matthew 18:20 - For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

But He clearly is in subjection to the Father and the Father is clearly His Elohim, His strength and His source

None of this means that we worship a trinity

Philippians 2:9 - Wherefore YAHWEH also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Who is greater, one who has the authority to exalt or the one being exalted?

Philippians 2:10 - That at the name of Yahushua every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Philippians 2:11 - And that every tongue should confess that Yahushua the Messiah is Master, to the glory of YAHWEH the Father.

If I read verse 11 correctly... If we lift up Yahushua, We are lifting up the Father...if we praise Yahushua , we are praising the Father..it is all to the glory of Yahweh the Father!

John 5:22 - For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

John 5:23 - That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Now let's look at John 10:

John 10:31 - Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

John 10:32 - Yahushua answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

John 10:33 - The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself Elohim.

Here is the accusation. Here would have been the opportunity for Yahushua to show them how he was co-equal to the Father.. a part of the trinity and "godhead"

But He did no such thing

What does Yahushua do? He does the exact same thing I have done in this study. He downplays the greatness of such a title!

John 10:34 - Yahushua answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are elohim?

John 10:35 - If he called them elohim, unto whom the word of YAHWEH came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

John 10:36 - Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of Elohim?

This is what Yahushua pointed out to them and so this is what I point out to others. Yahushua downplayed the 'Exclusivity' of being called "Elohim" and so I choose to do the same

Yahushua defended this claim with the scripture that refers to men as also "elohim'. This shows that they had a false concept of what it really means to be called "Elohim" means, just as do leaders of today.

There appears to be other misconceptions.. such as in the meaning of oneness and worship

How these words are used in various scriptures demonstrate their meaning. The scripture cannot be broken, as Yahushua said!

Continuing in John 10:

John 10:37 - If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

John 10:38 - But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

He didn't say He was the Father, and He didn't say He was equal to the Father. He said that the Father is in Him and He is in the Father

We can also be one in them, remember?

The source of all life, Father YAHWEH...is IN Him. But Yahushua isn't equal to Him, neither then nor now. Yahushua has an Elohim just like we do. And it is Yahweh the Father

John 8:13 - The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.

John 8:14 - Yahushua answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.

John 8:15 - Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

John 8:16 - And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

John 8:17 - It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

John 8:18 - I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

They aren't one 'person', else Yahushua would be playing a little trick on them and His defense would have been false

John 8:19 - Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Yahushua answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

So two bear witness. Now I ask, where is the Holy Spirit in all of this?

Shouldn't the Holy Spirit also bear witness if there are 3?

The Holy Spirit is simply the Spirit of Yahweh. It is His Spirit. The Spirit proceeds from Yahweh the Father.

John 15:26 - But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

The Spirit poured out on those in Acts 2 is simply the Spirit of Yahweh the Father.. Kepha/Peter said:

Acts 2:16 - But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

Acts 2:17 - And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith YAHWEH,I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

The Holy Spirit is that Spirit that proceeds from the Father, no wonder it is Holy! It is simply the Spirit of Yahweh the Father.

So the Spirit comes from the Father ..

Yahushua also comes from the Father.

John 8:42 - Yahushua said unto them, If Elohim were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from Elohim; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

I think there is a pattern here?

ALL Things come from the Father!

1Corinthians 8:5 - For though there be that are called mighty ones, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be mighty ones many, and masters many,)

1Corinthians 8:6 - But to us there is but one Elohim, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Master Yahushua the Messiah, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Is there not a distinction here of who the Father is compared to the Son?

The Father is the source of all things and He does all things through Yahushua the Messiah by His Spirit.

His Spirit dwells in Yahushua the Messiah. Yahushua the Messiah dwells in us, therefore Yahweh's Holy Spirit is in us!

I'm not particularly fond of human analogies.. but consider this...

In relation to us, the Father is like the "generator", the Holy Spirit is like the "Electricity" and the Son is the wires, the Way that we can receive the Spirit of the Father... that we might live.

And we? We are the light of the world in Him

I pray that Yahweh's Spirit will dwell in us to reveal to us His ways and His truth.

May Yahweh bless you and have mercy on us all!