Transcript of Sabbath Meeting - 05/26/00


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WAYne - Heavenly Father we Pray to You Through Yahshua The Messiah Our Savior(1john 4:14)
WAYne - Let Your Holy Name be Sanctified and known throughout the heavens and the earth
WAYne - Abba Father forgive us our sins and trespasses and guide us to everlasting life through Yahshua The Messaih
WAYne - Thank You for The Blessings You bring upon those Loving Your Name and all who bear witness to Your only begotten Son our Savior Yahshua The Messiah(John 3:16)
WAYne - Thank You for This Shabbat and the fellowship that we are blessed with here each Sabbath
WAYne - We pray You help all The unfortinate in the world the sick the poor and all those whom call upon Your Name Father Through Yahshua Messiah our mediator(1Timothy 2:5)
WAYne - Help us to come to an accurate knowledge Of You Abba Father and of The One whom You sent forth Yahshua The Messiah(John 17:3)
WAYne - Abba Father guide us to love, forgive and to encourage oneanother, uplift us Abba Father in Your Spirit and Truth and May Your Shalom be upon us always, guide us to walk in Your Ways, to walk as Yahshua walked(1joh 2:6)
WAYne - We pray Abba Father that You please Guide us in Your Ways and Guide Your Servant EliYah to proclaim Your Word, This Day and everyDay
WAYne - we thank You Abba Father always in Yahshua`s Name
WAYne - Hallelu YHWH \o/\o/\o/

EliYah's message:

HalleluYah!

In the Torah it is written:

Exodus 17:9 - And Moses said unto Joshua, Choose us out men, and go out, fight with Amalek: to morrow I will stand on the top of the hill with the rod of Elohim in mine hand.

Exodus 17:10 - So Joshua did as Moses had said to him, and fought with Amalek: and Moses, Aaron, and Hur went up to the top of the hill.

Exodus 17:11 - And it came to pass, when Moses held up his hand, that Israel prevailed: and when he let down his hand, Amalek prevailed.

Exodus 17:12 - But Moses' hands were heavy; and they took a stone, and put it under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun.

Exodus 17:13 - And Joshua discomfited Amalek and his people with the edge of the sword.

Exodus 17:14 - And YAHWEH said unto Moses, Write this for a memorial in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.

So Yahweh declared this prophecy to obliterate Amalek..

And Yahweh chose a certain man to perform it...

1Samuel 15:1 - Samuel also said unto Saul, YAHWEH sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of YAHWEH.

1Samuel 15:2 - Thus saith YAHWEH of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.

1Samuel 15:3 - Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

1Samuel 15:4 - And Saul gathered the people together, and numbered them in Telaim, two hundred thousand footmen, and ten thousand men of Judah.

1Samuel 15:5 - And Saul came to a city of Amalek, and laid wait in the valley.

1Samuel 15:6 - And Saul said unto the Kenites, Go, depart, get you down from among the Amalekites, lest I destroy you with them: for ye shewed kindness to all the children of Israel, when they came up out of Egypt. So the Kenites departed from among the Amalekites.

1Samuel 15:7 - And Saul smote the Amalekites from Havilah until thou comest to Shur, that is over against Egypt.

1Samuel 15:8 - And he took Agag the king of the Amalekites alive, and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword.

1Samuel 15:9 - But Saul and the people spared Agag, and the best of the sheep, and of the oxen, and of the fatlings, and the lambs, and all that was good, and would not utterly destroy them: but every thing that was vile and refuse, that they destroyed utterly.

1Samuel 15:10 - Then came the word of YAHWEH unto Samuel, saying,

1Samuel 15:11 - It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto YAHWEH all night.

1Samuel 15:12 - And when Samuel rose early to meet Saul in the morning, it was told Samuel, saying, Saul came to Carmel, and, behold, he set him up a place, and is gone about, and passed on, and gone down to Gilgal.

The new KJV has in verse 12...

1 Samuel 15:12 So when Samuel rose early in the morning to meet Saul, it was told Samuel, saying, "Saul went to Carmel, and indeed, he set up a monument for himself; and he has gone on around, passed by, and gone down to Gilgal."

This is the first clue of the apparent purpose in Saul's heart. He had set up a memorial for himself in Carmel

And for what?

Even though he was only attempting to do what Yahweh had told him..apparently he was taking the credit for it!

1Samuel 15:13 - And Samuel came to Saul: and Saul said unto him, Blessed be thou of YAHWEH: I have performed the commandment of YAHWEH.

Is this not what is common in this day and age?

People say they obey Yahweh..

When they do not

And people labor for the glory of men for what they do

rather than giving the glory to Yahweh

So Samuel responded to Saul's statement:

1Samuel 15:14 - And Samuel said, What meaneth then this bleating of the sheep in mine ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear?

1Samuel 15:15 - And Saul said, They have brought them from the Amalekites: for the people spared the best of the sheep and of the oxen, to sacrifice unto YAHWEH thy Elohim; and the rest we have utterly destroyed.

Apparently Saul knew that he had not done right.

First, these sheep and oxen were not even sacrifices to begin with since the children of Israel didn't raise or keep these sheep

A true sacrifice comes out of your own being or possession

Second, He blamed the people by saying "THEY brought them"

But when he spoke of the part He did fulfill..he says "WE" have utterly destroyed

The people saw that the spoil from the Amalekites was good.

Not only did Saul try to take the credit for destroying the Amalekites, but when the people desired something different than Yahweh's commandments, Saul compromised obedience!

Saul was trying to justify his disobedience by setting forth his own standard of righteousness, not commanded or given by Yahweh

1Samuel 15:16 - Then Samuel said unto Saul, Stay, and I will tell thee what YAHWEH hath said to me this night. And he said unto him, Say on.

1Samuel 15:17 - And Samuel said, When thou wast little in thine own sight, wast thou not made the head of the tribes of Israel, and YAHWEH anointed thee king over Israel?

So Right away, Yahweh condemns his pride

1Samuel 15:18 - And YAHWEH sent thee on a journey, and said, Go and utterly destroy the sinners the Amalekites, and fight against them until they be consumed.

1Samuel 15:19 - Wherefore then didst thou not obey the voice of YAHWEH, but didst fly upon the spoil, and didst evil in the sight of YAHWEH?

1Samuel 15:20 - And Saul said unto Samuel, Yea, I have obeyed the voice of YAHWEH, and have gone the way which YAHWEH sent me, and have brought Agag the king of Amalek, and have utterly destroyed the Amalekites.

I think Saul is probably pretending here to try and make a case....but it isn't working

1Samuel 15:21 - But the people took of the spoil, sheep and oxen, the chief of the things which should have been utterly destroyed, to sacrifice unto YAHWEH thy Elohim in Gilgal.

Ahh.. but the "people"!

So here he is giving the same excuse that Aaron gave with the golden calf...casting off the disobedience upon others....

In the garden, Eve blamed the serpent and Adam blamed Eve

But in this example we know that Saul did not utterly destroy them as Yahweh had told him... but he spared the king and their spoil which Yahweh told him to destroy.

1Samuel 15:3 - Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

But Saul did not

Proverbs 14:12 - There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Perhaps it seemed right to Saul to keep the spoil....but partial obedience is disobedience in the eyes of Yahweh!

Saul had to have known of the prophecy...Yahweh even reminded him about what Amalek did against Israel

but.. blaming the people..

1Samuel 15:21 - But the people took of the spoil, sheep and oxen, the chief of the things which should have been utterly destroyed, to sacrifice unto YAHWEH thy Elohim in Gilgal.

1Samuel 15:22 - And Samuel said, Hath YAHWEH as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of YAHWEH? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

Will this be the excuse of merchant preachers on judgement day who peddle the word of Yahweh while teaching the people need not obey fully?

1Samuel 15:22 - And Samuel said, Hath YAHWEH as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of YAHWEH? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

In the modern houses of blindness there are many sacrifices of praise

But to obey is better than to sacrifice.

This is something that David understood when he sinned with Bathsheba and Uriah

Psalms 51:16 - For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.

Even then, works did not make up for sin. A man had his only hope in the mercy of Yahweh

1Samuel 15:22 - And Samuel said, Hath YAHWEH as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of YAHWEH? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

1Samuel 15:23 - For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of YAHWEH, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

This is an incredible statement by Samuel!

Not only did he classify Saul's actions as Rebellion, but he made Saul's Rebellion equal with witchcraft and his stubbornness as idolatry!!

To be rebellious is to join in Satan's plan

And according to Yahweh, Saul's actions were rebellious and Saul was stubborn. His stubborness made him set himself up as an idol rather than giving Yahweh the honor

1Samuel 15:24 - And Saul said unto Samuel, I have sinned: for I have transgressed the commandment of YAHWEH, and thy words: because I feared the people, and obeyed their voice.

He feared the people because he loved himself and the praise of men more than the praise of Yahweh. This was also a characteristic of the scribes and pharisees:

John 12:42 - Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:

John 12:43 - For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of YAHWEH.

This is a VERY common thing that prevents someone from believing and accepting the truth.

Those in Christian leadership...even if they know the truth are too afraid to teach it because they 'fear the people'.

For many, they would end up preaching themselves right out of a job!

Therefore they 'obey their voice(the people' rather than the voice of Yahweh!

Woe to them for their witchcraft and idolatry lead Yahweh's people astray just as the false prophets led Israel and Judah astray!!

And what did Yahshua say?

Matthew 7:15 - Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Just as it is today, Saul allowed the people to do a different way of worship than Yahweh commanded!

Because he loved the praise of men more than the praise of Yahweh

They thought they could sacrifice (worship) by doing it the opposite way Yahweh told them to.

Even so, today many have chosen their own way of worship such as 1st day Sabbaths rather than 7th day Sabbaths, Pagan holi-days in favor of Yahweh's Holy days, Counterfeit names rather than the true names, etc etc!!

Now we will learn the heart of Saul. His pride prevented him from obeying the voice of Yahweh and so finally he repents..or does he?

1Samuel 15:25 - Now therefore, I pray thee, pardon my sin, and turn again with me, that I may worship YAHWEH.

1Samuel 15:26 - And Samuel said unto Saul, I will not return with thee: for thou hast rejected the word of YAHWEH, and YAHWEH hath rejected thee from being king over Israel.

1Samuel 15:27 - And as Samuel turned about to go away, he laid hold upon the skirt of his mantle, and it rent.

1Samuel 15:28 - And Samuel said unto him, YAHWEH hath rent the kingdom of Israel from thee this day, and hath given it to a neighbour of thine, that is better than thou.

1Samuel 15:29 - And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.

1Samuel 15:31 - So Samuel turned again after Saul; and Saul worshipped YAHWEH.

1Samuel 15:30 - Then he said, I have sinned: yet honour me now, I pray thee, before the elders of my people, and before Israel, and turn again with me, that I may worship YAHWEH thy Elohim.

1Samuel 15:31 - So Samuel turned again after Saul; and Saul worshipped YAHWEH.

Now again we see the heart of Saul. He says "honour me now, I pray thee, before the elders of my people."

I don't think that is true repentance from the heart. Rather, it is again the desire for to be accepted by the people.

This is not true repentance

This is a lesson given for our learning also:

1Corinthians 10:7 - Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

1Corinthians 10:8 - Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

1Corinthians 10:9 - Neither let us tempt the Messiah, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

1Corinthians 10:10 - Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

1Corinthians 10:11 - Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

1Corinthians 10:12 - Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

In sharing those words I share them in fear knowing the trap that is there

We need to beware also of the fear of man. It should not even be a consideration when seeking the truth in Yahweh's word.

We should not ever attempt (like Saul did) to conceal selfishness and self love under the cloak of religious zeal and gratitude!

This was the mistake of Saul, the mistake of the scribes and pharisees, and the mistake of this age also.

The system of churchianity breeds complacency and confidence in man. Every week, people go to their church "services" where false shepherds are trusted to read and interpret the scriptures for them. But they have been led astray and because of this, they lead others astray with them. As Yahushua said:

Luke 6:39 - And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

Therefore, the ones of this age must be warned!

Indeed brethren, we must go and warn the people of this serious mistake, It has caused lawlessness/Torahlessness to abound!

But with what attitude do we admonish and share any wisdom that Yahweh has granted?

In reference to the Thessolonians, Paul said:

1Thessalonians 2:5 - For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloke of covetousness; YAHWEH is witness:

1Thessalonians 2:6 - Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of the Messiah.

1Thessalonians 2:7 - But we were gentle among you, even as a nurse cherisheth her children:

Gentleness and selflessness, even though the people of Thessolonica had no reputation for being lovers of His word.

For in Acts it is written of Berea:

Acts 17:10 - And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.

Acts 17:11 - These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Yahushua was meek and lowly also, though He taught others to repent:

Matthew 11:28 - Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Matthew 11:29 - Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Matthew 11:30 - For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Let's learn from His meekness and lowliness when we share the word with others.

It may fall on deaf ears, as did the messages of Jeremiah, Isaiah, Ezekiel and even Yahshua the Messiah, but we are commanded to deliver those who are drawn toward the way of death:

Proverbs 24:11 - If thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are ready to be slain;

Proverbs 24:12 - If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?

Anyone can threaten, anyone can intimidate. Anyone can boast and anyone can condemn.

Anyone can judge and anyone can discourage. But I ask, who will deliever them who are walking down the wrong road?

Who will reach out and be Yahweh's hand extended...to hold someone's hand in love and gently, (1Thes 2:7 and 1Tim 3:3, 2Tim 2:24) patiently (1Thes 5:14, 2Thes 3:5) guide them into the way of life?

Who will gently share the words of wisdom (James 3:17) so that they will hear and recognize the Shepherd's voice of meekness and lowliness in them?

Theatening, intimidating, boasting, condemning, judging and discouraging are the lazy and impatient way of witnessing.

We are told to preach the word with longsuffering (2tim 4:2).

This takes laboring and patience and praying and weeping and hoping and knowing and seeking diligently the mind of Yahweh through it all.

We must labor

Lest we be found the wicked and lazy servant:

Matthew 25:25 - And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.

Do not be afraid of man!

Matthew 25:26 - His master answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

Matthew 25:27 - Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

If you have been given the talent of gold, His truth...hide it not!!!

Either make use of it or give it to someone who will!

Matthew 25:28 - Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

Matthew 25:29 - For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

Matthew 25:30 - And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

It is time brethren, for time is short. It is time to RESTORE!!

For Yahushua didn't come to take away the torah, He came to magnify it!

Isaiah 42:21 - YAHWEH is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Isaiah 42:22 - But this is a people robbed and spoiled; they are all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in prison houses: they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, Restore.

It is time to deliver those drawn toward the ways of death, who are hidden in the prison houses (churches, houses and synagogues) that are plundered by the shepherds who feed themselves!!

Ezekiel 34:2 - Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Master YAHWEH unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?

Yes, some things never change...Yes, the shepherds SHOULD feed the flocks:

Matthew 24:45 - Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

Matthew 24:46 - Blessed is that servant, whom his master when he cometh shall find so doing.

Matthew 24:47 - Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

It is time to work.

It is time to find and walk in the way of truth.

It is time to Restore.

It is time..for the time is near, even at the doors.

May Yahweh bless you all!

End


DelaYah - \õ/ \o/ \õ/ \o/ \õ/ \o/ \õ/ \o/ \õ/ \o/ \õ/ \o/ - HALLELUYAH - \õ/ \o/ \õ/ \õ/ \o/ \õ/ \o/ \õ/ \o/ \õ/ \o/ \õ/
Jay_Emm - \o/\o/\o/\o/\o/ HalleluYah !!! \o/\o/\o/\o/\o/
WAYne - \o/\o/\o/ Praise YHWH Through Yahshua The Messiah \o/\o/\o/
BrBob_islurking - ================ PRAISE YAHWEH!! ================
DelaYah - Praise YHWH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dorota - HalleluYAH!
Miles_of_PA - Praise YHWH!!!
Ruth - Praise YHWH Through Yahshua Messiah
Miles_of_PA - Thank you EliYah for your faithful message! Hallelu Yah!
Ruth - HalleluYAH HalleluYAH HalleluYAH
Ruth - HalleluYAH HalleluYAH HalleluYAH
Ruth - HalleluYAH HalleluYAH HalleluYAH
Terry - HalleluYah \o/ \o/
downlo - Praise YHWH
wrblst - HalleluYah
Br_jason - HalleluYah\o/
oldrobot - Praise be to Yahweh and to those that deliever his word in truth \o/ \o/ HalleluYah!!
BrBob_islurking - Quite a responsibility huh?
Danny - HalleluYAH
COL - hmmmmmm, that was a thought provoking message! Thanks be to YHVH. HalleluYAH.
watchman - thank You, YHWH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ps91910 - HalleluYah |\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/
DelaYah - Thank You Father!!!!!!!!
lory - HalleluYah! Strength of Israel!
BrBob_islurking - If we deny him, he will deny us.
channah - HalleluYah
EliYah - Yahushua is changing us
BrBill - HalleluYayh!
Dorota - HalleluYAH!
EliYah - little by little
Dorota - ================ PRAISE YAHWEH!! ================
EliYah - every day
EliYah - in every way
BrBob_islurking - Yes, it is about time.....
WAYne - \o/\o/\o/ Praise YHWH Through Yahshua The Messiah \o/\o/\o/
COL - every hour
ps91910 - hmmmmm- sounds just like the conversation been having last 2 days
EliYah - We aren't the same
EliYah - as we used to be
Dorota - ================ PRAISE YAHWEH!! ================
Dorota - HalleluYAH!
EliYah - Sometimes it's slow going
EliYah - But there is hoping that someday perfect we will be
Dorota - Yahweh will speed it up in HIS time
BrBob - I hate to leave, but I am working on a study for tomorrow......
DelaYah - 1John 3:3 - And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
COL - just the other day I was talking with a Sunday church fella about things right on the sidewalk. He backed up a step or two at times but the seed has been planted, may YHVH water it.
BrBill - Yahweh is merciful and patient!
BrBob - Been a hard week too
Dorota - !rs
ps91910 - just a thought- in teaching the flock to not follow Torah- are the shepards actually ensalaving the people
DeAnna1 - that is so true dorota! in his time. :)
downlo - He is the POTTER we are clay!
EliYah - yes, ps91910
Terry - Shalom all Good Night
JamesTrimm - yes they are. Torah-less-ness is bondage
Dorota - Yes, in HIS time HE makes all things beatifull
channah - llylatov brBob
DeAnna1 - HalleluYah!
BrBob - g'nite you all
DelaYah - Jeremiah 23:32 - Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith YHWH, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith YHWH.
WAYne - Shalom brBob
channah - YHWH bless you an dyour family
BrBob - I mean y'll
EliYah - Psalms 37:5 - Commit thy way unto YAHWEH; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass.
Dorota - Yah, please show me every day as you're teaching me you way that you do just what you say in YOUR time
oldrobot - +1 Corinthians 7 19
BrBob - \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ - HALLELUYAH - \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/
JamesTrimm - worse than that they are causing them to turn to a false Torahless "Christ" for their salvation...
BrBob - ¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸ Praise Yahweh! ¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸
EliYah - Shabbat Shalom BrBob :)
ps91910 - in doing so they are alos robbing Yaweh and His people - robbing them of the blessings that He would bestow
BrBob - ...L.....i.....e.....la... EliYah ...T.....o.....v.....!...
JamesTrimm - see the paper I wronte on the forum on the first thunder
Miles_of_PA - Sin is bondage!
Dorota - !rs
JamesTrimm - first thunder = Torah-less Jesus of Christianity
Dorota - !rs
JamesTrimm - Sin = violating Torah
channah - what about all th epeople who didnt know the truth in the old days,
Dorota - Yahweh is just
Dorota - Yahweh is faithfull
EliYah - In the end, Yahweh will judge righteously
Miles_of_PA - Yahweh is gracious!
Dorota - HalleluYAH!
Dorota - ================ PRAISE YAHWEH!! ================
JamesTrimm - Like the worshippers of Zeuse?
JamesTrimm - and Apollo and such?
COL - channah...I was one of those ppl who didn't know the truth in the "old" days....now I know. lol
believer - praise YHWH for the message and for the safe delivery of our daughter Jesse Shalom !! :)
EliYah - \õ/ \o/ \õ/ \o/ \õ/ \o/ \õ/ \o/ \õ/ \o/ \õ/ \o/ - HALLELUYAH - \õ/ \o/ \õ/ \õ/ \o/ \õ/ \o/ \õ/ \o/ \õ/ \o/ \õ/
Jay_Emm - \o/\o/\o/\o/\o/ HalleluYah !!! \o/\o/\o/\o/\o/
EliYah - (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((believer)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
JamesTrimm - +matt 7 20-22
lory - + ps 48 1
EliYah - (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Jesse)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
JamesTrimm - _mat 7 22-25
Danny - the more I learn the more I realise I don't know
believer - ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((ELIYAH))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
JamesTrimm - +mt 7 26-28
Miles_of_PA - All who love TRUTH moreso than their "god" will come to know Yahweh's salvation, even christians.
COL - Danny....agree.
Dorota - it's ok to don't know, and learn from HIM alone
downlo - +acts4 31
BrBill - Yahshua is my King!
WAYne - +mat 5 16
channah - my daughter friend came by had her baby I prayed for him, and YHWH to bless him, you know Iwhile I was p-raying and saying YHWH he looked at me and smiile
WAYne - The Commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are The Way of life... prov 6:23
JamesTrimm - if they leave Christianity. Christianity is another religion... a "new religion" only less than 2,000 years old, Torah forbids us to enter any new religiuon
COL - ahhhh
JamesTrimm - But if they tern to the Messiah whi is Torah incarnate... in him is salvation, but their is no salvation in the false Toirahless Christ "Jezuz"
ps91910 - what about those who say one can not follow Y'shua and be jewish
BrBill - Christians have preserved the New Testament from the Jews desctructing it though.
DelaYah - that is nice channah HalleluYAH!
JamesTrimm - One cannot follow Yeshua an NOT be Jewish... Yeshua was Jewish.
Miles_of_PA - If they love TRUTH more than G-D, then they will leave Babylon, yes.
ps91910 - I know
BrBill - Christianity is one step we all had to take to find the truth of Yahweh and Yahshua.
JamesTrimm - Christians have NOT preserved the NT... and Jews have preserved the Torah
WAYne - +rom 2 29 30
Miles_of_PA - Yes, BrBill
JamesTrimm - not true I was NEVER a Christian
BrBill - the jews always wanted to destroy the Word of Yahshua!
JamesTrimm - I was Jewish and I remained Jewish when I accepted the Jewish Messiah of Judaism
Dorota - we are the children of Yahweh
DeAnna1 - well, i have to get things done before sundown here. sorry I was late Elyah, was truly a good message.
BrBill - to this day they hate Yahshua the Jews call us gentiles
Dorota - HalleluYah
Miles_of_PA - easy people!
Dorota - Praise Yahweh
EliYah - Mainstream Judaism is a step for some.. Mainstream Christianity is a step for others
Dorota - is that D' from Hawaii
EliYah - But only a step
DeAnna1 - I love you Dorota
Dorota - Shabbath Shalom
Dorota - to you and yours
JamesTrimm - not tru the Jews have simply rejected "Jesus" the false Torah-less Christ, as they should have.
COL - James Trimm....so are you saying all us "old" Christers were not saved? Personally I don't get into ppl's proof of salvation or not. That is between the person and YHVH. I am not fit to comment on ppl's salvation....tooo risky.
DeAnna1 - :) hahaha surprise
WAYne - Bye DeAnna :) Shalom
Dorota - yes, surprise
ps91910 - am of jewsih blood- raised chistian ( sort of) mon kept me in Torah so would understand messiah
DeAnna1 - and you too my lovely siostra!
Dorota - i wish i could speak with you
Dorota - Yahweh is a wonderful Father
Dorota - a gracious and compassionate
DeAnna1 - thank you wayne, shalom to you too brother
Miles_of_PA - JT that explains the current situation, but it does not explain why they rejected Yahshua.
JamesTrimm - If a false Messiah can save you then they are saved. Read the paper I wrote on the 1st thunder on the forum it shows you what the SCRIPOTURES say
Danny - James Trimm The Jews DID reject the messiah thats why salvation came to the gentiles
DeAnna1 - I will call you dorota, say in 15 mns?
Dorota - ok
Dorota - i will be waiting
COL - almost offensive?
JamesTrimm - The Jews of the first century accepted Yeshua by the tens of thousands
DeAnna1 - I can talk and "work" at the same time... i'm running out of time.. ahha
BrBill - right Danny!
Dorota - Yahweh bless you and keep you
Dorota - and HIS FACE SHINE UPON YOU
DeAnna1 - okay.. Shabbat Shalom all of you!
Danny - Yes I agree they di JT but many also rejected even as it is now
Dorota - HalleluYAH!
DeAnna1 - YOU TOO MY SIOSTRA!
Dorota - ================ PRAISE YAHWEH!! ================
JamesTrimm - +acts 21 20
DelaYah - Shabbat Shalom DeAnna1
ps91910 - hmmm- correct me if wrong- it was Sanhedrien - not all jews reject Him- His followers were Torah Observant
JamesTrimm - Nazarene Judaism was the largest sect of Judaism in the first century
EliYah - What happened to all of them?
COL - James Trimm....when I had accepted "Christ" 11 years ago I was not aware of the so - called falseness of Him then so I do hold true that I am saved, for I have seen His hand in my life before I came to know Messiah 2 years ago.
EliYah - They didn't join in the rebellion
EliYah - against rome
EliYah - So then jews hated them too
EliYah - :/
JamesTrimm - "When Demetrius accepted Apollo 2,000 years ago he did not know the falseness of Apollo either... was he saved by his false Messiah?
EliYah - James, I think there is a difference
DelaYah - yes I agree with EliYah that tere is a difference
channah - i was saveda s achristian 8 yrs ago before I came to the truth
BrBill - Yahshua's Holy Spirit guides all to salvation.
ps91910 - james as for me- it was seeking who He is that lead me to this room
JamesTrimm - Then who are the Torahless ones who accepted another Jesus/Yeshua in Mt. 7:20f?
WAYne - +zeph 1 7 8
EliYah - Apollos has nothing to do with the Elohim of the scriptures, Yahweh
EliYah - Whereas the "Jesus" taught today is a corruption of the original
JamesTrimm - but Appollo has EVERYTHING to do wit Jesus
WAYne - +1cor 5 7
JamesTrimm - and Tammuz is also such a corruption
BrBill - the jews rejected Yahshua so much, that they denied Him as King.
Danny - There is a big difference. If you look you can see the one called "Jesus" is the Jewish messiah. Even though that is not often taught today. But the new testament we have surely shows that.
BrBill - +John 19 21 22
EliYah - I would strongly disagreee
COL - James Trimm.....well I guess it comes down to this....you'll either see me in Heaven or you won't. I'll shake your hand when I see you. :-)
EliYah - Can I share an example?
JamesTrimm - I am willing to accept what you say if you can tell me WHO the Torah-less ones who believe in another Jesus are in Mt. 7:20f
ps91910 - does it nat say that all who diglently seek Him will find Him
EliYah - I wil
EliYah - l
WAYne - +john 14 26
JamesTrimm - yes but we are not speaking of those we are speaking of the followers of the Torah-less one
JamesTrimm - who also is called "Jesus"
EliYah - You take someone who is living a life of drugs, alcohol and sin. He picks up a bible. He reads it. There he reads about the Messiah who came and gave His life for us
BrBill - what are the havier matters of the law?
BrBill - +Matt 7 22
EliYah - So there he calls on "Jesus" for his salvation. He doesn't know much of anything yet about how to keep Torah or about the name Yahushua
EliYah - I believe He is accepted
JamesTrimm - as long as it is NOT a Torah-less Messiah NOT one who abolished Torah. The Torahless one who is called Jesus is NOT the real Yeshua.
BrBill - +Matt 7 23
EliYah - But if that person goes to a church and starts following the church instead of Yahweh.. then he is in trouble
EliYah - But if that person goes to a church and recognizes the error
EliYah - and his love for Yahweh and the word remain
JamesTrimm - "iniquity" = greek ANOMOS = literally Torah=less-ness
ps91910 - does not Yaweh look upon the heart?
EliYah - I believe he is accepted
EliYah - Those who follow man rather than Yahweh are among the torahless
JamesTrimm - then you are saying that the true saving Messiah and the Torahless Jesus are interchangeable?
channah - I KNOW MANY PEOPLE who were set free from the bible, and believe
BrBill - +Luke 23 43
BrBill - this man was lawless!
EliYah - I'm saying that the torahless "Jesus" is a corruption of the true Messiah
JamesTrimm - WHO are the Torah-less ones of Mt. 7:20f? they followed a guy by the same name as our Messiah.
EliYah - In a sense
JamesTrimm - so who are they?
JamesTrimm - followers of Torahless Jesus?
EliYah - They are those who are not obedient to the word
Danny - JT I say it is whats in a mans heart. If his desire is toward YHVH and not to please man then yes I believe Yahweh honors that because its the heart He looks at
BrBill - if they are preaching against the law they are corrupt and the truth is not in them.
JamesTrimm - if so then can Torahless Jesus save them? What does Matt. 7:20-25 say?
WAYne - +isa 8 20
BrBill - as Yahshua said you shall know them by their fruits.
Danny - makes no difference what he calls himself.
BrBill - +Matt 7 22
oldrobot - The Torah-less Messiah is the invention of man
BrBill - opps
JamesTrimm - but if their YHWH is Torah-less then it is not the true YHWH
EliYah - Anyway, I've made my case
BrBill - +Matt 7 20
JamesTrimm - yes exactly and can an invention of man save anyone?
Miles_of_PA - Look, either you will hearken to the call to come out of Babylon, or you won't, THERE is the difference!
COL - I bear fruit.....many have called me a "fruit loop". ;-)
BrBill - what is you do all the Torah and you have a wicked heart?
BrBill - full of malice and hate
lory - fellow fruit loop here too!
BrBill - what good is your Torah ?
EliYah - BrBill, you can't hate and do all the Torah
COL - LOL
EliYah - They are opposites
BrBill - some Jews do!
EliYah - They say they do
Ruth - Shabbatt Shalom Moonwatch
Danny - Amen eliYah
JamesTrimm - I am still waiting for ANYONE to explain Mt. 7:20f without an alternate understanding no other case has been made except that Torahless Jesus has no power to save
BrBill - whited sepulchres
BrBill - full of dead bones!
channah - I believe he draws them to him, but they are taught of the ways of man, and some know about the name but are afraid to use it because they will be rejected
EliYah - They are torahless too,BrBill
BrBill - many Yahwist we know they go and take the Memorial Symbols and hate their own brethren commit adultery and fornication
BrBill - and say they are holy!
EliYah - Then they are torahless too
JamesTrimm - please read the paper I wrote "the first thunbder: Torahless Jesus" on the forum and show me where it is wrong.
BrBill - not mentioning any names!
oldrobot - yes
downlo - JT-answer-hirelings&hypocrites who serve YHWH with lip service rather than their whole being
BrBill - yes they are but they appear and say they are Torah keepers.
channah - what about all those thousand who were saved and healed by the false name
EliYah - James, you know I agree that those who claim the Messiah is torahless are among those in Mat 7
EliYah - But in the end, Yahweh is going to judge things on a case by case basis
EliYah - According to each man's works
JamesTrimm - Ok that is what I am saying. The Torah-less Jeusus of Christianity is a false Messiah who cannot save anyone.
ps91910 - He knows the hearts of men
channah - I know I told my brother I observe the holydays and shabbat he tells me I need to get back to the truth
WAYne - +psa 119 142
BrBill - every man shall give account of all their works good or bad.
WAYne - +psa 119 151
EliYah - I've been sharing that for years..that those who say the Messiah is torahless will find themselves judged by the one who they claim is saving them according to Matt. 7
BrBill - there are many churches who obey Torah and call on name of Jesus.
EliYah - "Many" will say in that day
channah - I know like someone said in the 1600 and up there are those couldnt read and only know what they were told
EliYah - And their miracles will mean nothing, it is a strong delusion from Yahweh
WAYne - +mat 22 14
BrBill - Yahshua said work your own salvation with fear and trembling!
EliYah - Because they loved not the truth, the Word
EliYah - but had pleasure in unrighteousness..transgression of the law
channah - what about them who had no choice but to except the name of jesus
EliYah - Like I said, Yahweh is going to judge us individually
JamesTrimm - I am not saying the NAME of Jesus I am saying the Torah-less quality.
EliYah - Not in groups
Danny - Goodnight folks Shabbat shalom
BrBill - I know of some who are very strict about the touch not handle not, but are in adultery and want to be accepted by all, this are in Yahweh's name!
JamesTrimm - I am saying the "Torah-less one" by ANY name cannot save because he is a false Messiah
DelaYah - Ecclesiastes 12:13 - Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear Elohim, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
DelaYah - Ecclesiastes 12:14 - For Elohim shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. .
EliYah - BrBill, then they are torahless :)
oldrobot - Amen
EliYah - HalleluYah, DelaYah
channah - but they were saved according to
BrBill - so, some who are in Yahshua are Toraless eventhough they keep the Holy days and say they keep the law hypocrycy!
JamesTrimm - Their Messiah came to abolish the Torah by fulfilling it. Mine came not to abolish but to fulfil. They are not the same guy.
EliYah - Yes, BrBill
cutter - Has anyone heard of any healings or miracles or picking up serpents or speaking with new tongues or any os the signs that follow those that believe being done in the power of the name of yeshua?
JamesTrimm - my Messiah is Torah incarnate, theirs is the Torah-less-one
ps91910 - + mat 5 17-19

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