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Author Topic:   "What About John 1:1?"
Missy

Posts: 2643
Registered: Aug 2005

posted 12-20-2006 11:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Missy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Burning one:
Shalom tedack,

interesting you mention "burning".

last Shabbat i did a teaching about Chanukah for the congregation i attend. it was centered on the menorah, and how the detailed construction of the menorah as given in the book of Shemoth points directly to the Torah, and then collectively to the entire Word, and how it was meant to "be a light".

then i dealt with Messiah's proclamation that He is "The Light", but only while He was in the world - now we are to be "The Light". i took this to mean that as "lights" we are to embody the Torah, the Word of the Father, symbolized in the menorah, which was placed in Yah's Presence. Messiah was the Torah living and breathing for each and every person to see. as all good disciples do, we should mimic our Rabbi to the very T.

understanding it in this fashion, it explains the angelic beings described in YeshaYahu 6, who stood before the Presence of the Father. they are called Seraphim, literally meaning in Hebrew "burning ones". to stand in His Presence, therefore, one must be "on fire", to quote a popular christian phrase. but what does it mean to be "on fire"? it means to [u]live the Torah[/u]!

all of this makes the passage out of YeshaYahu 33:10-17 make perfect sense -- the only ones who can "dwell with devouring fire, who can dwell with everlasting burnings" are those who live the same Torah life as Messiah, being lights in the world, and in the Presence of the Father.

Chayim b'Moshiach (Life in Messiah)



Praise YHWH! What a fantastic lesson for the congregation that you attend. I really enjoyed reading the excerpt that you have shared here. I was watching Elder Jacob O. Meyer (from the AOY) on tv last Shabbat and he had a good lesson about Hanukkah as well.
Oddly enough a few years back I was accused by a so called believer of worshipping Satan because my family and I celebrate Hanukkah. They claimed Hanukkah is paganism. (This was not anyone on this site).
Burning One, it's good to see that you have educated yourself on Word of YHWH and have been blessed with the ability to convey truth to others. I hope you are continually blessed to do so.

Shalom b' Yeshua,
Missy

[This message has been edited by Missy (edited 12-20-2006).]

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Dave52

Posts: 667
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 12-20-2006 03:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave52     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Dave52 wrote: And there can’t be a 2nd death if there wasn’t a 1st death to begin with.

chuckbaldwin wrote: Mt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body [the 1st (physical) death], but are not able to kill the soul [the 2nd (spiritual) death]: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell [gehenna - lake of fire].


I thought we were talking about the sleep or death of the spirit not the soul. Do you see the soul as a spirit?

quote:
chuckbaldwin wrote: What Yahshua was saying is that Lazarus' spirit was sleeping, while he was physically dead.

Jn 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 13 Howbeit Yahshua spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. 14 Then said Yahshua unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

He said “Lazarus sleepeth” and he said “Lazarus is dead.” Equating sleep as a methphor for death which we all do. He did not say, “Lazarus’ spirit sleepeth” and then say “Lazarus’ body is dead.” No, Lazarus, a being made up of a body and spirit, was dead.

quote:
chuckbaldwin wrote: I believe that the "spirit" that returns to Elohim is the "breath of life" as given in Gen.2:7, while the "spirit in man" (memories & character) may possibly remain at the location of death, e.g. "sleeping in the dust of the earth" as in Dan.12:2 or 1Sam.28:12-16.

Are you saying a believer could have three spirits in them, 1] the breath of life 2] the spirit of man (memories & character) 3] the Holy spirit?

Where do you find the breath of life or the soul is a spirit?

quote:
chuckbaldwin wrote: I disagree. I believe that the spirit is what contains all the "data" - thoughts, memories, & character, while the BRAIN is the "computer chip" that processes the "data". The body decays and goes in every which direction. Which piece of decaying flesh contains which memory? That doesn't make sense.

1Co 15:35 Some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But Elohim giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Paul says, “that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die.” Now you said the spirit doesn’t die so he is speaking of the body. He also says “It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body” but never mentions spirit.

“Which piece of decaying flesh” is the bare grain or seed Paul speaks of?

quote:
chuckbaldwin wrote: Ro 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit [NOT with our BODY], that we are the children of Elohim:

That's how we receive the "mind of the Messiah", and holy righteous character; not by YHWH putting part of His "body" in us, but by giving us a portion of His "Spirit", which contains His thoughts and character.


Paul is speaking of the saved not all mankind.

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Burning one

Posts: 546
Registered: Sep 2005

posted 12-20-2006 06:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Burning one     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Missy:

Praise YHWH! What a fantastic lesson for the congregation that you attend. I really enjoyed reading the excerpt that you have shared here. I was watching Elder Jacob O. Meyer (from the AOY) on tv last Shabbat and he had a good lesson about Hanukkah as well.
Oddly enough a few years back I was accused by a so called believer of worshipping Satan because my family and I celebrate Hanukkah. They claimed Hanukkah is paganism. (This was not anyone on this site).
Burning One, it's good to see that you have educated yourself on Word of YHWH and have been blessed with the ability to convey truth to others. I hope you are continually blessed to do so.

Shalom b' Yeshua,
Missy


[This message has been edited by Missy (edited 12-20-2006).]


Shalom,

i was surprised at how well everyone received it at the congregation. i had a lot of good feedback, as we have "open discussion" during our messages. everyone was in a "festive" mood, so to have their attentions for the time i did was a blessing!

and what a story you have to tell! how could someone go so far as to say that observing it is worshipping Satan? that is quite extreme! i mean, the whole event is centered around reinstituting the true worship! that is crazy.

a few years back, my bride and i had some family members who would not even allow their children to be in the same room with the chanukiah as we explained to them why we were doing what we do at this time. their reason was "it's Jewish -- and we don't live under the Law anymore, in fact, only Acts 2 and onward is relevant." anyway, they didn't go so far as to say we were worshipping Satan, so i guess it could have been worse!

and thank you for your kind words! i love the Word, and hope the Father will continue to use me to teach it for the rest of my life. and if not that, as long as i get to read it, i'll be okay!


Chayim b'Moshiach (Life in Messiah)

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chuckbaldwin

Posts: 2753
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 12-20-2006 10:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chuckbaldwin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dave52,

Since a discussion of "soul", "spirit", & "body" can get quite involved, and somewhat afield from the topic of this thread, i started a new one entitled "What is 'death'?".

I will copy your most recent post to the new thread and reply there.

------------------
Chuck Baldwin

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Missy

Posts: 2643
Registered: Aug 2005

posted 12-21-2006 11:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Missy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry

[This message has been edited by Missy (edited 12-21-2006).]

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Missy

Posts: 2643
Registered: Aug 2005

posted 12-21-2006 12:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Missy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Burning one:
Shalom,

i was surprised at how well everyone received it at the congregation. i had a lot of good feedback, as we have "open discussion" during our messages. everyone was in a "festive" mood, so to have their attentions for the time i did was a blessing!

and what a story you have to tell! how could someone go so far as to say that observing it is worshipping Satan? that is quite extreme! i mean, the whole event is centered around reinstituting the true worship! that is crazy.

a few years back, my bride and i had some family members who would not even allow their children to be in the same room with the chanukiah as we explained to them why we were doing what we do at this time. their reason was "it's Jewish -- and we don't live under the Law anymore, in fact, only Acts 2 and onward is relevant." anyway, they didn't go so far as to say we were worshipping Satan, so i guess it could have been worse!

and thank you for your kind words! i love the Word, and hope the Father will continue to use me to teach it for the rest of my life. and if not that, as long as i get to read it, i'll be okay!


Chayim b'Moshiach (Life in Messiah)


Glad to hear it was well received. I take it that it's not the norm at your congregation for people to celebrate Hanukkah ?

The person that accused me of worshipping Satan was a little fanatical about their own religious organization. If you ask me sometimes they could be anti-semetic with their views. They had this idea that anything else outside of what they believe is Satanic...LOL!

I can't get over this statement " It's Jewish--and we don't live under the Law anymore, in fact, only Acts 2 and onward is relevant."

SAY WHAT ? Since when isn't ALL of the Scriptures relevant. That's what irks me about mainstream Christianity... the blantent disreguard for the truth of the ENTIRE Bible. Not just picking whatever and tying it to paganism like it's the end all be all and the rest of us are idiotic occultists that don't know any better. But yeah.. at least they didn't say you worship Satan..LOL!

You are very welcome for the "kind words"..but I didn't really say it to be kind but more to tell you that I was really blessed by what you shared and how you shared it..the truth that YOU shared is what was kind. And it was very nice to hear you could share it with people in your congregation.

Shalom to you!
M

------------------
Everyone believes in how they think it ought to be
Everyone believes and they're not going easily
Belief is a beautiful armor but makes for the heaviest sword
Like punching under water you never can hit who you're trying for...

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Burning one

Posts: 546
Registered: Sep 2005

posted 12-22-2006 10:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Burning one     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Missy:
Glad to hear it was well received. I take it that it's not the norm at your congregation for people to celebrate Hanukkah ?

The person that accused me of worshipping Satan was a little fanatical about their own religious organization. If you ask me sometimes they could be anti-semetic with their views. They had this idea that anything else outside of what they believe is Satanic...LOL!

I can't get over this statement " It's Jewish--and we don't live under the Law anymore, in fact, only Acts 2 and onward is relevant."

SAY WHAT ? Since when isn't ALL of the Scriptures relevant. That's what irks me about mainstream Christianity... the blantent disreguard for the truth of the ENTIRE Bible. Not just picking whatever and tying it to paganism like it's the end all be all and the rest of us are idiotic occultists that don't know any better. But yeah.. at least they didn't say you worship Satan..LOL!

You are very welcome for the "kind words"..but I didn't really say it to be kind but more to tell you that I was really blessed by what you shared and how you shared it..the truth that YOU shared is what was kind. And it was very nice to hear you could share it with people in your congregation.

Shalom to you!
M



well, the last 2 years we did Chanukah celebrations as a group, but there really wasn't any teaching or message, just a fun time, doing crazy "comedy-dramas" with the youth, and lots of eating.

but my message was aimed to the congregation as something of a wake-up call, as we have had a few families who have become embarrassingly slack in living His Word. i know we are all at different levels in our walks with the Father, but when you are shining less light than you were before, then there is a problem. i was addressing that issue within the body of the teaching, and it was received very well.

in short, with the other parts of the message, i explained how the Chanukiah lights grew from night to night. the lights never dimmed. each night more light shone forth, and this should be comparable to us as believers -- we should always be increasing in our intimate walk with the Father, revealing more of Who He is to this world, and that comes by living the life of Messiah.

as for my family's reaction, it is crazy. years ago an uncle was asking about my tsitsit, and once i explained them to him, he said. "That was in the O.T." my reply was that Messiah spoke of them and wore them, also. then his counter was a thoughtful, "Hmm. And that was before the cross."

ARRGGHH!

so yeah, it is an irksome issue, for sure. i've had to just let the issue of the "Faith" we've chosen go when around my family, since they are unwilling to budge and desire to circumvent the revealed truths of Scripture for tradition. though i do have a younger brother who has been surprisingly receptive to what i've had to say. so there is promise!


Chayim b'Moshiach (Life in Messiah)

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