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Author Topic:   Itís reported Yahweh is in fact the name for Jove/Jupiter
Dave52

Posts: 667
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 08-01-2005 07:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave52     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Itís reported Yahweh is in fact the name for Jove/Jupiter.

http://jacobs121.tripod.com/id7.html

This broad study goes to great lengths, scholarly investigation and extensive references to point out Yahweh is the pronunciation for Jupiter, the god of gods to the Romans.

Give it a read and let us have your input.

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shieldofdavid

Posts: 948
Registered: May 2005

posted 08-01-2005 08:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shieldofdavid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting...

My thoughts:

1. Faulty premise and foundation leads to faulty argument. The entire article is based on the premise of the opening argument that the pronuncation some hold to of YHWH, Yahweh or Yahuweh, is actually not for YHWH but for IOUE, which is Jupiter. I wasn't convinced by the opening arguments evidense that this is proven - though it may be true, I don't know. I think for the author to carry on with the Jupiter concept, which the whole article revolves around, he should have done a better job in proving that "Yahweh" is actually the pronunciation that ancient Romans and Greeks really used.

2. Even if the basic premise is correct, that "Yahweh" is the pronunciation for the Greek god Jupiter (which I thought was "Jupiter" and "Yahweh" seems way off from "Jupiter" - but maybe I'm missing something big here), it was not proven with hard facts anywhere in the article that such a pronunciation was originated by the Greeks for Romans. The article never even considered the scriptural truth of the "theif" who counterfeits the works of YHWH - trying to be YHWH, which is why he got kicked out of his position in the kingdom of YHWH in the first place. If hasatan isn't trying to be YHWH, then what in hell is he trying to be? Why then would we be suprised if he mimicks and copies and twists the truth with lies to make even the truth look evil?

Exo 32:4 And he took this from their hand, and he formed it with an engraving tool, and made a moulded calf. And they said, ďThis is your mighty one, O YisraíEl, that brought you out of the land of Mitsrayim!Ē
Exo 32:5 And Aharon saw and built an altar before it. And Aharon called out and said, ďTomorrow is a festival to YHWH.Ē
Exo 32:6 And they rose early on the next day, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings. And the people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

Did you catch that? Who brought them out of Egypt? YHWH, right? But wait, they made an idol and called it the one who brought them out of Egypt - and here's the kicker - they called it a "festival to YHWH!" Wow!

I ask you, is the name YHWH the true name of the golden calf or of the creator of the heavens and earth? Does misusing the name for evil idol worship change the original meaning or intent of the name? Do you think hasatan is too good to misuse the name even in such a blashpemous way? He can't be any more condemned than he already is - what fear of Yah has he left?

3. I agree, and have posted on here before, that sacred namers take the physical pronunctation of the name way to seriously - some even saying a christian can't be "saved" because they call on the wrong pronunciation, even though they are calling with the intent of the heart on the Creator and our Messiah. The article does go to show what I've said, WE DON'T KNOW THE EXACT PRONUNCIATION IN ANCIENT HEBREW OF YHWH! So, why fight over it - I mean, from what I've seen, some yawhists do get really hot over the issue. It seems there are more important things, such as Torah to work out to be wasting time on endless arguments over how to say his name when none of us really know for sure, outside of personal revelation if anyone has one.

4. I was very disappointed that the author didn't leave us with any hint as to his opinion on pronunciation of YHWH - not that it really matters - but if you are going to take so much time to state what it isn't, wouldn't you state what you think it may be?

5. I find it amazing that Yah has convicted me of many things and changed me big time in the last year even, but he's never convicted me concerning the name, pronunciation of it that is. He's given me a great disdain for evil and sin and I can actually feel the Spirit churn, say when a certain secular song comes on or someone says something really vile, or when there is an evil spirit present. Intersting. I've prayed for a revelation on the pronunciation but he hasn't given it yet. Rather he's had me focus on being a doer of the Word and making disciples. I often wonder how much glee hasatan has in distracting the people of Yah with wild goose chases.

Shalom brethren in Messiah Yahshua our King of Glory!

------------------
HalluluYah! For HE is my shield!

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Shlomoh

Posts: 1321
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 08-02-2005 12:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Shlomoh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Shalom Dave,

So Jove was originally pronounced Yahweh, woopteedoo! The Chaldeans called the "father of the gods" Yah and El. The Amorites worshipped Yahwi. Other Canaanites claimed that Ashtoreth was the wife of Yahweh. It becomes a question of which came first, the chicken or the egg?

The name YHWH was derived from one of three verbs of being, hayah (who was), howeh (who is) or yihyeh (who is to come). If from hayah, then Yah'weh is the correct pronounciation. If howeh, then Y'howeh. If yihyeh, then Yihweh. The first one is the most likely, and 99% of scholars agree.

This article is simply the fruit of the verbal witch hunts that many in the Sacred Name movement have pursued for years. I have done so myself in the past. To say that all the worship we give to YHWH is somehow sidetracked and given to the enemy if we don't quite get the pronounciation of the name correct or use one of the no no words the founders of the SN movement demonized decades ago is ludiscrist. Baal never answered by fire. Those who contend he does today have come up with a new doctrine indeed!

My two cents,

Shlomoh

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truthtreker

Posts: 375
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 08-02-2005 01:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for truthtreker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Shalom all, It seems to me after reading much of this web site, that we need to really check this out.His post on 666 and his post on "Is Jesus the real name?" Have brought up questians before I've even finished. but I'll wait untill tommorrow before commenting on any thing. Its an old approach on some things, but the basics seem to be a little different. I dont buy the jove thing right now, but I want to do a little research on some of his material, before I disprove it. duane

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Shlomoh

Posts: 1321
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 08-02-2005 02:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Shlomoh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by truthtreker:
Shalom all, It seems to me after reading much of this web site, that we need to really check this out.His post on 666 and his post on "Is Jesus the real name?" Have brought up questians before I've even finished. but I'll wait untill tommorrow before commenting on any thing. Its an old approach on some things, but the basics seem to be a little different. I dont buy the jove thing right now, but I want to do a little research on some of his material, before I disprove it. duane


Shalom Duane,

If I understand it correctly, the "sigma" that the 666 article talks about is not actually a sigma, but a double gamma, which was anciently the sixth letter of the Greek alpahabet and corresponds to the letter "f". It has since dropped out of the Greek alphabet.

Be that as it may, the ignorant and unlearned John would not have written Revelation in Greek, but in Hebrew or Aramaic. One writer even said it looked like the writer of Revelation, "Thought in Hebrew but wrote in Greek." Which would be the case if the Greek were a literal translation.

666 in Hebrew would be Tau, Resh, Samech, Waw, TRSU. One writer, a professed Ebionite, said it stood for Tarsu or Tarsus, the name of the town that "Paul the false apostle" came from! You see how easy it is to read our own ideas into this thing.

One interesting thing emerges from the Hebrew. Since every letter is also used as a number, they all have numerical value. If you take the name of Ceasar Neron (as he was called in the east), the Hebrew letters add up to 666. In the west he was called Ceasar Nero, which adds up to 616 in Hebrew. Guess what, the western, Latin manuscripts of Revelation says 616 instead of 666. That's too much of a coinincidence to be a coinincidence, if you ask me.

Shlomoh

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truthtreker

Posts: 375
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 08-02-2005 07:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for truthtreker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for that information Shlomoh, it helped me alot. I really am starting to realize how much I could use at least a little knowledge of Hebrew and Greek.

Shalom, duane

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Weboh2

Posts: 14
Registered: Jun 2005

posted 08-03-2005 11:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Weboh2     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Deleted

[This message has been edited by Weboh2 (edited 08-03-2005).]

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Weboh2

Posts: 14
Registered: Jun 2005

posted 08-03-2005 11:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Weboh2     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Originally posted by Weboh2:
To be more more specific, hebrew YHWH transliterates to IAOUA in greek (sorry, about the ommission.) And the Latin Jove which transliterates IOWE is not the equivalent. It seems to both american indian and etruscan, but even this is suspect.

[This message has been edited by Weboh2 (edited 08-03-2005).]

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billy davis no1

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Registered: Jul 2005

posted 08-05-2005 07:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for billy davis no1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dave52

One thing for sure YHWH sure don't spell God!

Billy

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shofarshogood

Posts: 545
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 08-18-2005 06:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shofarshogood     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
God is good... YHWH is better !

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Frank4YAHWEH

Posts: 26
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 08-20-2005 12:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Frank4YAHWEH     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Peace greeings ALL,

Here are a few more web sites that espouse to the belief that the Name Yahweh is pagan. I myself absolutely do not agree with them though.

Yahweh: god of the Christians

More on God's Name

Do not be intimidated with the pop-up message on this first link. Go ahead and just click "Yes". Pastor ReckedHeart has no power over you. :rollseyes:

The Sacred Name

Yahweh is a Pagan Name

Jove is Yahweh

Yaho/Yah/Iao/Yahweh/Jehovah

"Yahshua" means moon saviour.

YAHWEHISM


My question to those who espouse to this lie is: What Is The True Name Of Our Heavenly Father And Creator, And What Is The True Name Of His Son?

------------------
Yahshua gave all esteem (glory) to Father Yahweh. (Yahchanan [John] 5:30 & 8:50)

[This message has been edited by Frank4YAHWEH (edited 08-20-2005).]

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ChrisDixon

Posts: 399
Registered: Dec 2004

posted 08-20-2005 05:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ChrisDixon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Shalom,

Are they stating then that the Tetragrammaton is pagan in origon then or just the way we pronounce it.

Chris

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Frank4YAHWEH

Posts: 26
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 08-22-2005 03:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Frank4YAHWEH     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Chris,

Great question! I have also pondered this same question. Most of the links that I have posted in my previous post seem to be directed to the pronunciation and the placement of English vowel usage within the four Hebrew letters (tetragammaton) transliterated as YHWH. This is just one of the things that make this so unbelievable to me. It seems to me that none of them are quite clear on what it is that they are referring to. I had a discussion with one of the proponents that the Name Yahweh was of pagan origin, and I asked to them, "So YHWH is pagan?", and they answered "No!" They believed that the four Hebrew letters are stickly consonants. I do not believe this. I believe that they are consonant-vowels.

http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/YAHWEHFrank/ConsonantsOrVowels.html

The forms YHWH and IAOUA ([or iabe] {Theodoret; by this time Gk. b had the pronunciation of v} Clement of Alexandria) are merely transliterations of the four Hebrew letters commonly refered to by the Greek word 'tetragrammaton' meaning 'four letter word or name'. YaHWeh is merely a transliteration to futher show how it is pronounced in English. There are diverse strict use of vowel forms to transliterate the Name just as there are are diverse strict use of the consonant forms. For example: YHW, YHWH, YHVH, JHVH and IAOU and IOUO (Yahu), IAOUA, EAUA, IOUE, and etc. I have recently noticed them intermingled as YHUH.

Also consider this list of transliterations. Note that the letter 'J' did not become widely used until the 17th century. It is also disputed whether a 'W' or 'V' should be used or which came first. You also have those who use the 'U' instead of a 'W' or a 'V'.

YHVH YHWH Yahweh Yahveh Yaveh Yaweh Jehova Jehovah Jahova Jahovah Yahova Yahovah Yahowah Jahowa Jahowah Yahavah Jahavah Yahowe Yahoweh Jahaveh Jahweh Jahwe Jahaweh Yahaveh Yahaweh Yahawah Jahuweh Yahuweh Jahuwah Yahuwah Yahuah Yah Jah Yahu Yahoo Yaohu Jahu Yahvah Jahvah Jahve Jahveh Yahve Yahwe Yauhu Yawhu Iahu Iahou Iahoo Iahueh


Jeshua, Yeshua, Yeshuah, Yehshua, Yehshuah, Yeshouah, Y'shua, Y'shuah, Jeshu, Yeshu, Yehoshua, Yehoshuah, YHVHShua, YHVHShuah, Yhvhshua, Yhwhshua, YHWHShua, YHWHShuah, Yhvhshuah, Yhwhshuah, Yahvehshua, Yahwehshua, Yahvehshuah, Yahwehshuah, Yawhushua,Yahawshua, Jahshua, Jahshuah, Jahshuwah, Jahoshua, Jahoshuah, Jashua, Jashuah, Jehoshua, Jehoshuah, Yashua, Yashuah, Yahshua, Yahshuah, Yahushua, Yahushuah, Yahuahshua, Yahuahshuah, Yahoshua, Yahoshuah, Yaohushua, Yaohushuah, Yauhushua, Iahoshua, Iahoshuah, Iahushua, Iahushuah, YAHO-hoshu-WAH

What Is The True Pronunciation?

------------------
Yahshua gave all esteem (glory) to Father Yahweh. (Yahchanan [John] 5:30 & 8:50)

[This message has been edited by Frank4YAHWEH (edited 08-22-2005).]

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SPAIGHT

Posts: 196
Registered: Jun 2005

posted 09-01-2005 01:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SPAIGHT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jupiter-Jove the true name of Yahweh? NO....FIRST THE name comes from the latin [Ju-pater] its an idol that was worshiped by the romans.There are many pagan offsprings from jupiter,in the GREEK[zeus] BABLYONIANS[marduk] and the NORSE[odin].


The pagan deity is nothing more than a sungod,the romans are known thourghout history as such.In a nutshell I will expose this lie and get back to my study,This is all about sun worship the names of sungods always have something to do with the sun,moon,stars,and planets.


LOOK AT THIS PLEASE;


GREEK; IESSOU.-ZEUS.

LATIN; IESUS.

ROMAN; IESUS.

EGYPTIAN;ISIS-EUS.

ENGLISH; JESUS.-ZEUS.

ENGLISH; jehovah.{the subsatuited name of YAHWEH.}

Now the egyptians also worshiped many pagan deities [Ammon],the greeks adopted this deity hence we get Jupiter Ammon.Ammon is also the word were false teachers get the word A-men.Remember brothers and sisters these are the nations from which christianty sprang forth.They are the very ones YAHWEH warns us not be insnared with because of there pagan deities.

We are not christians we are hebrews christians are the very ones that tell you and I that the laws of Yahweh are done away with.In exodus 20:2 it is Yahweh who brings his people out of pagan Egypt which he calls the house of bondage.
It is my opion that the worship of such pagan objects like the sun or any celestial body and Idols,and those who chose to do such are worshipers of satan.

Knowledge has been increased and the tue light is shining the apostles did not refer to YHWH as this jupiter they warned the people of yhwh come out of such,it is only after the small group of followers where put to death or died off that such heathen teachings slowly found there way back into the temple.This was done only to set a governmental body.Thus the roman empire..

SPAIGHT.

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SPAIGHT

Posts: 196
Registered: Jun 2005

posted 09-01-2005 05:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SPAIGHT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It seems that some of you are having a hard time with this jupiter-zeus pagan deity,but from what word does this jupiter come itslef? First lets see how the romans identified jupiter,as a sky god and juno as his with repersenting the earth.Jupiter derived from the word [Diespaiter] meaning father day,hence today we get fathers day.


IT can also be traced back to the word [Dievs] originally [DEIW] meaning to shine.Gave rise to the noun [Deiwos]from this came the latin word jovis,jove,jupiter,and the greek word zeus.Apollo is also greek for sun god as was olympus greek for sky.In the case of apollo the romans used to call the moon diana,lets look at ACTS 19:35 we find that they were worshiping both jupiter and diana,and that a near riot arose because the silver smith demetrius flet he would lose money for making shrines for diana,because of the teachings of shual.The image which fell from the sky was more than likely a meteorite,and was belived by the heathens to be a piece of the sky.


Remember zeus was translated into Semitic languages as baal shamem,which means lord of heaven jovis,jove,jupiter all have ties to this statement baalzebub is the prince of demons, also means lord of the heavenly habitation prince of the powers of the air.Jupiter also spoken of as god of the air,remember satan comes at us in many forms even by trying to put the pronuncation of Yahweh into one of his pagan titles.


have to go I will give more on this matter.


Spaight...

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