The following scriptures relate to men and wearing beards:

Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard. {Leviticus 19:27}

They shall not make baldness upon their head, neither shall they shave off the corner of their beard, nor make any cuttings in their flesh. {Leviticus 21:5}

I am interested in hearing what different people think about:

• Cutting, trimming, shaving, etc. as it pertains to a man's beard.
• What this commandment is saying.
• How this applies to them, or how it doesn't apply to them.
• What is the purpose of the commandment.
  

I've got a belief on this, just curious how others see it, and interested in learning more from others as well.

Thanks so much,

Matthew Janzen

quote:

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Originally posted by emjanzen:
Hi, Everyone,

The following scriptures relate to men and wearing beards:

Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard. {Leviticus 19:27}

They shall not make baldness upon their head, neither shall they shave off the corner of their beard, nor make any cuttings in their flesh. {Leviticus 21:5}

I am interested in hearing what different people think about:

Cutting, trimming, shaving, etc. as it pertains to a man's beard.

What this commandment is saying.

How this applies to them, or how it doesn't apply to them.

What is the purpose of the commandment.

I've got a belief on this, just curious how others see it, and interested in learning more from others as well.

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I wonder if any of us American-culture, English-speaking people really know what's being said here; so here's my opinion mixed with limited understanding, and a little tongue-in-cheek, starting with an example for comparison:

[color=blue]We know that the 10th commandment says not to covet our neighbor's donkey, manservant, maidservant, wife, etc. Does that mean that if our neighbor doesn't have any of the above, that we must provide him with a donkey, and servants (and a wife!!), just so we can obey the commandment not to covet them.[/color]

The above sounds ridiculous, but apply it to the "beard" commandments (and i have nothing against beards ... on the other guys ). Does it mean that i have to grow a beard in order to keep the commandment not to "round its corners"? And what about the "corners of my head"? I know that your dad-in-law probably thinks i'm a "block-head", but when i was born, it seems that the Creator had already rounded my head for me.

For some more serious answers...
To your 1st question, i reply that, taking the commands literally, if i let a beard grow, then i would be afraid to trim or cut it in any way, for fear of unwittingly violating the commands.

To your 2nd question, i reply that i think the commands somehow relate to making designs like the pagans, who did it in worship of their false deities, and like a lot of rebellious "punk" youths are doing today.

To your 3rd question, i'm not sure how the commands actually apply to me, except to refrain from doing the weird things mentioned in #2.

To your 4th question, i think the object is to not be like the pagans.

I have a friend who has tried to convince me that growing a beard is commanded, but i don't see it, at least not yet.

Please let us know what your belief is, and maybe we can all learn.

YHWH bless,

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Chuck Baldwin

Thankfully wearing a beard is not something I desire *grins*, but I found a website by a brother John Cordaro who has this to say about it. I enjoyed reading through it, I pray its a blessing to those searching.

blessing in Yahushua,
Sojourner-Tamar

What Scripture teaches about Beards and Baldness

It is a belief among many brethren in the faith that men should wear beards as did most Yisraelites (Israelites) throughout history. However, it is not considered mandatory to do so. The purpose of this study is to inform you of what the scriptures say concerning beards and to show that it is a law of Yahweh which should be obeyed.

Let's begin by looking at the actual commandment in Lev. 19:26-28; "Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times. Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard. Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am Yahweh."

Notice that we continue to obey verses 26 and 28 even today. The question is, do we have to obey verse 27? As we read in Lev. 19:1,2, these commandments are for the children of Yisrael, of whom we are through Messiah. In verse 27 the KJV uses two words which do not help in clearly understanding this verse, "mar" and "corners." Unless you have a square head and a square beard you cannot have "corners." The Hebrew for "corners" is "peah" which means the "region or extremity" according to Strong's Concordance. A word study of such verses as Ex.36:25; Job 18:14,15; Nu.24:17; Ezek.41:12; and Lev.19:9 will reveal the correct meaning to be "border" or "the outline that forms the image." Referring to the above references; the peah or border of a building is its' walls; of the sea, its' coastline; of a country such as Moab, its' borders; of a field, its' borders; of the beard, the outline which forms the image. In other words, the hair line along the cheeks, lower neck, below the lower lip, etc. Goatees, mutton chops, Hitler mustaches and totally shaven faces are all forbidden by Yahweh. Incidentally, the Jewish practice of not cutting the sideburns is based on an erroneous understanding of this scripture.

The word "mar" in Hebrew is "shachath" which means to decay or ruin. It was also translated "destroy, perish, cast off, corrupt and utterly waste." So what this commandment is really saying is, "Do not utterly destroy the borders of your beard." The only way to utterly destroy the beard is to remove the hair from your face. The most common way is by shaving which totally ruins and mars the beard. It creates baldness upon your skin and, as we will see later, baldness is associated with shame and defilement throughout scripture. Trimming the length of the beard is permitted because it does not create baldness. Instead, it adds to a man's handsomeness.

To "round the corners of your head" would mean to create baldness around one's head, as certain people do, leaving only a circular patch of hair on top.

Lev.19:27 is among a long list of commandments extending to Lev.20:21. Verses 22-26 teach us to be sanctified from the unbelieving people around us. They tattoo their bodies, stretch their necks with metal rings, shave their heads bald or carve words and designs in their hair. This shows a total lack of reverence for their bodies. How much more should we reverence our bodies which are the temple of the Holy Spirit.

A similar commandment is found in Lev.21:1-6. These verses pertain to the priests, Aaron and his sons. Believers today are said to be priests as well, so this commandment could spiritually apply to us. But even if it doesn't we can see Yahweh's feelings concerning creating baldness on ones head. Not only would the priest defile or profane himself but he would also profane the name of Yahweh (vs 6). It was holiness to a priest to remain unshaven.

Only something holy can be profaned or defiled. Ezekiel talks about profaning the sanctuary and the Sabbath day. Both are holy and both can be defiled. Believers are also holy; in fact, we are a holy priesthood and our bodies are holy temples. If we eat pork we defile the temple of the Holy Spirit (Lev 11:44). If we create baldness on our head or face we defile the temple of Yahweh.

Lev.21:16-23 tells us about the seed of Aaron that are blemished. Whenever something happens to a priest that alters the image that he was created with, he becomes blemished. That is why Yahweh told them not to create baldness on their head or face. They could not serve as priests until they were healed again.

Most commentators apply the last chapters of Ezekiel to the millennial kingdom. Notice in Ezek.44:20 the priests are not permitted to shave but they are permitted to cut their hair so it doesn't grow too long. Yahweh does not want men's head hair to be too long and He doesn't want it or the beard to appear sloppy or unkempt. The Apostle Paul, in I Cor.11, says it is a shame for a man to have long hair. It was also a shame for a man to be bald or beardless. II Sam.10:4,5 recounts the time when King David's men had half their beards shaved off by their enemies causing great shame. But notice what David said to do. He didn't tell them to shave off the other half and return to Jerusalem. He told them to wait in Jericho until their beards grew back and then return.

Some people try to use Gen.41:14 to prove that men could shave if they wanted to. The most logical way to understand this verse is that the Egyptians made Joseph shave when he met Pharaoh just as they made him change his clothing. If a man is kept in a dungeon for two years and then is brought quickly out to meet Pharaoh, he is not going to put on his best clothing because he undoubtedly doesn't have a change of good clothing. The Egyptians would have given him new clothes and they would have required him to clean up and shave. Almost all Egyptians had shaven heads and no beards.

Acts 18:18 and 21;23-26 show that Paul shaved his head because he had taken a Nazarite vow which is spoken of in Nu. 6:1,13,18. Once the vow was fulfilled Paul's head was shaved and his hair burnt for a peace offering. Samson was under a Nazarite vow as well, through which his long hair gave him great strength until it was shaved off by Delilah. There were only three reasons Yahweh allowed for shaving ones head: 1) A Nazarite vow 2) Leprosy or infection on the head 3) death of a relative. Shaving for any other reason, including to make oneself more attractive, would defile the person and profane Yahweh's name.

Yahweh spoke two interesting prophesies concerning baldness. In Is.3:16,17,24 baldness is spoken of as something negative and undesirable that Yahweh will bring upon the daughters of Zion because of their haughty attitude. Amos 8:9,10 shows that in the Day of Yahweh, He will cause baldness upon every head; in other words, shame and mourning.

Many people have been misled by todays society into believing that a well shaved, smooth face is desirable and permissible when, in reality, it is against the law of Yahweh and defiles our temple. Yahweh created men to have beards and then commanded men to not destroy their beards. He desires men to maintain the same image that He created them with. He does not want us to look like Egyptians, Romans, Hindus, or the other nations around us.

Even Yahshua the Messiah, who is our ultimate example, had a beard (Is.50:6). In their attempt to disrespect and shame Yahshua, his persecutors tore out the hair from his beard.

There are certain commandments in the Old Testament which we no longer observe because they have been fulfilled in some way. However, concerning beards and baldness, there are no fulfillments. If we don't have to obey these commandments anymore, then when and why did they cease?

Some brethren believe the law against shaving the beard was a cultural requirement for Yisrael alone. If that be the case, we could say the same for all the feast days and many other laws. The fact that Yahweh created men with beards, as a natural part of their body, shows that they are desired by Yahweh for all men, not just for Yisraelites. Since Galations 6:16 calls believers "the Yisrael of Yahweh", then we should be subject to the laws of Yahweh given to Yisrael.

Others will say that not all men can grow beards, therefore they don't have to either. Not all believers can mark the beginning of Sabbath by the visual sunset, yet they must keep the Sabbath holy. Yahweh will not hold such a person accountable if he cannot grow a beard. Nor will He look away from a man who loses his hair naturally. However, the man who willfully shaves his beard or his head, aside from the Scripturally permitted reasons, will be held accountable.

The evidence is conclusively in favor of the continued observance of these commandments and I, for one, will never put a razor to my face again. What about you?

http://www.anytimecostumes.com/costumes/bsm.html

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Originally posted by Mountain Jew:
For those who have to shave their beard for safety reasons in their employment like scuba divers, or our genetically challenged Mexican Indian brothers, there is always a solution.

http://www.anytimecostumes.com/costumes/bsm.html

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Good one, MJ!

I once heard of a case where a man joined a certain sacred name group and when he returned to HQ for Tabernacles he had shaved his beard off and was told that he would have to wear a fake beard or leave. No honestly, its true!

All in all I think John Cordaro's article sums up my views on this subject quite well. I realize that there are men who cannot grow beards, just like there are women who cannot grow long hair. These exceptions to the rule should not nullify the obligation of the majority who can and should comply to the above mentioned scriptural commands.

Good Shabbath,

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Originally posted by Hebraic Way:
My conclusion: Even though YAHWEH put hair on our face to help
protect it from the elements of nature, I find no scripture
prohibiting us from shaving other than for the purpose of MOURNING
FOR THE DEAD.
T.A.H.

do you agree/disagree and why?
Shabbat Shalom, SS

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Shabbat Shalom SS,

This reminds me of the argument that Deuteronomy 22:5 is specifically referring to women wearing men's battle garments, therefore it other forms of cross-dressing (eg wearing women's underwear) is OK. Or that since Paul used the specific words that meant temple prostitutes when he talked about sodomites in 1 Corinthians 6, other homosexual relationships are OK. In no way are we to let specific details annul the broad scope of these passages. The way the Israelites felt about the beard is clearly told in 2 Samuel 10:1-5. The teudah/testimony (Isaiah 8:20) is clear that it is, and always has been considered a shame to shave the beard off.

My two cents,

I really appreciate everyone that's given any input into this thread. I would have liked to hear more, but it seems its not an important topic to most. I will now respond to a few comments made.

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Originally posted by Chuck -

We know that the 10th commandment says not to covet our neighbor's donkey, manservant, maidservant, wife, etc. Does that mean that if our neighbor doesn't have any of the above, that we must provide him with a donkey, and servants (and a wife!!), just so we can obey the commandment not to covet them.

The above sounds ridiculous, but apply it to the "beard" commandments (and i have nothing against beards ... on the other guys ). Does it mean that i have to grow a beard in order to keep the commandment not to "round its corners"? And what about the "corners of my head"? I know that your dad-in-law probably thinks i'm a "block-head", but when i was born, it seems that the Creator had already rounded my head for me.

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I reply: First thing, interesting perspective Chuck, I do however disagree with the conclusion you come to in regards to the beard. Obviously if a particular neighbor of yours does not have a wife, you cannot possibly covet a wife of his he doesn't have.

With the beard, however, every young man comes to a time in his life when he begins to grow hair on his face. I guess there are exceptions, but they are rare. At this point in a young man's life he can either (1) shave, (2) trim and groom, or (3) not shave or trim. I've met you before Chuck in person, and I remember you to be clean shaven. Do you shave? If your answer is yes, I ask you: what are you shaving? You don't just shave, to shave; you shave to remove hair growth from off of your face. I believe if anyone honestly looks at Leviticus 19:27, he will see that to shave your face violates that particular command. In shaving, you mar the corners. I do not, however, take the position of some that trimming equals marring the corners. The verse has nothing to do with trimming or grooming your beard. It rather has everything to do with destroying the outline that forms the image of the beard.

Concerning the corners of the head, I'm not completely sure about this command, so I'll leave it alone for now.

quote:

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Originally posted by Chuck -

To your 2nd question, i reply that i think the commands somehow relate to making designs like the pagans, who did it in worship of their false deities, and like a lot of rebellious "punk" youths are doing today.

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I reply: Your probably correct on this one to a degree, but I think we can see through other Scriptures (like 2 Sam. 10:1-5) that it was more than just appearing "pagan". Shaving, had something to do with shame.

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Originally posted by Chuck -

Please let us know what your belief is, and maybe we can all learn.

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I reply: My belief is that Yahweh gave two specifics concerning a mans beard (something which all men have). We are not to mar the corners of our beard. A study on the Hebrew word for mar reveals that it means to destroy, bring to nought, decay, etc, and a study on the word for corners reveals that it means something akin to the borders of a corn field, or the borders of the ocean, etc. What this would have to mean is that we are not to destroy the outline of our beard. We are thus to have a beard and not shave off the outline that forms the image. Trimming and/or grooming would be acceptable, but I do not believe it's okay to just have a "shadow beard" or something like that.

I have had some people, ask where do you draw the line? When is a beard not a beard? Question like this usually come from argumentive people who aren't really interested in obeying Yahweh in the first place, but in answer to that question, (1) where do we draw the line on how much to drink (wine), or how much to eat (gluttony)? Where do we draw the line on how long a man's hair should or shouldn't be, or on how much hair a women should trim of her head? Where do we draw the line on how long a woman's skirt should be, or how long her sleeves should reach? I could go on and on on this one. (2) A person making an honest attempt to love Yahweh and obey Yahweh will have no problem answering the above questions for himself. His answers may differ a little from the next guy, but two Holy Spirit filled individuals will not differ much. A person that does not really love Yahweh, will be "driven crazy" by having to answer the above questions, and could very well be turned away altogether because of no specifics in Yahweh's word on these issues.

Concerning the beard, I feel it should be long enough to pull on. To me, that is a beard, while a "shadow beard" would be merely stubble.

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Originally posted by Shlomoh -

This reminds me of the argument that Deuteronomy 22:5 is specifically referring to women wearing men's battle garments, therefore it other forms of cross-dressing (eg wearing women's underwear) is OK. Or that since Paul used the specific words that meant temple prostitutes when he talked about sodomites in 1 Corinthians 6, other homosexual relationships are OK. In no way are we to let specific details annul the broad scope of these passages. The way the Israelites felt about the beard is clearly told in 2 Samuel 10:1-5. The teudah/testimony (Isaiah 8:20) is clear that it is, and always has been considered a shame to shave the beard off.

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I reply: Good point, friend. Although Deuteronomy is specifically condemning the "warrior dressing" it does indeed condemn any cross dressing or trying to look like the opposite sex as well. This is the broader sense of the command, juxtaposed to the more narrow sense of the command. The other example you gave is fitting as well. At the same time, we need to be careful not to read anything into the command that is not there; kinda like some have read pants into Deuteronomy 22:5, and trimming/grooming into Leviticus 19:27, when neither is there.

Shalom to all,

Matthew Janzen

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Originally posted by Hebraic Way:
It is common knowledge that Jews are depicted with beards in scripture and confirmation is found in Egyptian and Assyrian monuments.

It is also common historical knowledge that shaving was popular in Rome and that the Egyptians made Joseph shave when leaving prison to be presented to the king.

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Originally posted by Tracy:
Hamburger Helper: [Allegedly] Improving Torah through Change, Addition, Deletion

For thousands of years since the before the beginning of time (of Adam), many have questioned and challenged Yahuweh our Elohiym unfairly and sometimes deceptively to the point of fooling themselves that they think that they can improve (or do better) than Yahuweh himself. Whether they rebel deliberately or ignorantly the result will always leave them angry, bitter, confused, hurt, and sometimes dead. We know that the Father of this type of "challenge" is the Devil himself, Ha Shatan!

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Just as soon as I got out from under the immediate authortity of the government (school and military), I stopped shaving ...

... and someone remarked, "Ah, you are letting your beard grow!"

In fact, however, I have never been able to stop it.

Excuse me Hebraic Way, but you posted:

***You have left out ALL references to those commands having to do with FOR THE DEAD:

Leviticus 21 (1) And YAHWEH said unto Moses, Speak unto the priests
the sons of Aaron, and say unto them, There shall none be defiled
FOR THE DEAD among his people: (2) But for his kin, that is near
unto him, that is, for his mother, and for his father, and for his
son, and for his daughter, and for his brother, (3) And for his
sister a virgin, that is nigh unto him, which hath had no husband;
for her may he be defiled [i.e. by touching their dead body]. (4)
But he shall not defile himself, being a chief man among his people,
to profane himself. (5) They shall not make baldness upon their
head, neither shall they shave off the corner of their beard, nor
make any cuttings in their flesh [for their dead].

Junia:

Couldn't help but notice that you started out with Lev. 19:1 & 2 , but then you jumped to 27. Why did you pick up one verse ahead of the ivocation of "For the Dead"? What I mean is why didn't you start with v26- ?....and then go on past (your proof text) v28, on to 29 ?

19:26 Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times. (for the dead ?)

19:27 Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard. (for the dead?)

19:28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am .

19:29 Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness. (for the dead?)

I am not a scholar but it really seems to me that v28 says that this instruction is qualified as being done for the dead. But I see no such qualification in the other verses either before or after v28. I do agree that scarrings, peircings & tattoings are only forbidden for those done in honor of the dead. Like the Fire Dept.s in New York getting Tatts for their fallen comrades.

^^^^

Then you went to Deut.14:1-2

nor make any
baldness between your eyes FOR THE DEAD.

Junia:

Agreed this is speaking of pagan mourning rituals, but I don't know what this has to do with beards. How can it ? I don't know if the pagans shaved between their eyes or their foreheads between their eyes as a mourning rititual, but it seems there was something of that type that Israel was not to do. But the beard is not between the eyes so what are you relating this verse to?

If making baldness between the eyes means shaving off their hairline in the area between the eyes then that would break the command not to Mar(destroy) the corners (borders of the hairline) of their heads. Which goes back to 'do not Mar the corners of your head', so yes that's a no-no.

You posted:

Originally posted by emjanzen:

Concerning the corners of the head, I'm not completely sure about this command, so I'll leave it alone for now.

***Because the context has to do with what the pagans did in their religious rituals that we as covenant Israelites are not to follow after. This does not mean that men can not get hair cuts. If you desire to say one can not trim their beard, you also must say men can not get hair cuts. You can not interpret two like passages in different context and be scripturally accurate.

Junia:

Now I think we may just be getting a little carried away here, don't you? Who is saying that a man can't trim his beard? Triming is not Maring the corners (borders) of the beard! Shaving is!

emjanzen said he doesn't completely understand the corners of the head so you say that men can't cut there hair?

Well, if corners of the beard means the borders, then why wouldn't corners of the head mean borders of the hair? Then what we are not to do, is to shave the borders of the head leaving hair only on the crown of the head, as did the Egyptians & some other pagan civilization. It seems to me that it would go without saying that to shave the top of the head only, in order to honor of the Sun God would also fit the bill, because it is within the borders of the hairline, but that is only my oppinion as it does not mar the corners( hairline) of the head.

I spent many years in Christian churches being taught that if you didn't have a beard you couldn't mar it & that G-d actually prefferred a clean shaven man. I just couldn't buy it for some reason. Still can't!

Maybe I am wrong on my assumptions here but as I see it, having a beard is a given for the male of YAH's people & leaving the hairline is another. Now we can worry all we want about how to trim the beard or cut the hair. How long is long & how short is short ( though Scripture doesn't seem to say anything about short) is something we can debate. But , as I see it a man will have a beard if he doesn't Mar it, so he is supposed to have a beard.

But, I still could be wrong. I am, as always, here to learn!

Shalom Sabbat!

Junia

Junia wrote:

quote:

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Couldn't help but notice that you started out with Lev. 19:1 & 2 , but then you jumped to 27. Why did you pick up one verse ahead of the ivocation of "For the Dead"? What I mean is why didn't you start with v26- ?....and then go on past (your proof text) v28, on to 29 ?

19:26 Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times. (for the dead ?)

19:27 Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard. (for the dead?)

19:28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am .

19:29 Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness. (for the dead?)

I am not a scholar but it really seems to me that v28 says that this instruction is qualified as being done for the dead. But I see no such qualification in the other verses either before or after v28.

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I reply: I believe you are 100% correct, Junia. Just because verse 28 has the phrase "for the dead" after the prohibition of cutting the flesh, doesn't mean that the prohibitions of verse 26, or 28 for that matter have anything to do with "for the dead".

Hebraic Way writes:

quote:

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***Lev 19:27 "Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard. 28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh FOR THE DEAD, nor print any marks upon you:" The Jews don't have #'s for verses. Just because verse 26 and 27 don't have the words 'FOR THE DEAD', does not mean it doesn't apply.

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I reply: The fact that their are no numbered verses in the original Hebrew Scriptures has nothing to do with Junia's point. The point remains the same. Consider the next sentence after the final verse you quoted above. Is it only wrong to profane one's daughter by making her a harlot if you are doing it for the dead? Same as with that right above the head and beard verse; Is it only wrong to eat blood for the dead? These are very good points brought up by Junia, which the above paragraph by Hebraic Way does not address adequately.

Junia writes:

quote:

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You posted:

Originally posted by emjanzen:

Concerning the corners of the head, I'm not completely sure about this command, so I'll leave it alone for now.

***Because the context has to do with what the pagans did in their religious rituals that we as covenant Israelites are not to follow after. This does not mean that men can not get hair cuts. If you desire to say one can not trim their beard, you also must say men can not get hair cuts. You can not interpret two like passages in different context and be scripturally accurate.

Junia:

Now I think we may just be getting a little carried away here, don't you? Who is saying that a man can't trim his beard? Triming is not Maring the corners (borders) of the beard! Shaving is!

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I reply: Once again Junia, you are correct. I never said that I believed it was wrong for a man to trim his beard. As a matter of fact, if you go read my post before this one, I made it plain that a man could trim and groom his beard. I found it awkward that Hebraic Way made this response to me:

quote:

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(Hebraic Way posted)

Originally posted by emjanzen:
Concerning the corners of the head, I'm not completely sure about this command, so I'll leave it alone for now.

***Because the context has to do with what the pagans did in their religious rituals that we as covenant Israelites are not to follow after. This does not mean that men can not get hair cuts. If you desire to say one can not trim their beard, you also must say men can not get hair cuts. You can not interpret two like passages in different context and be scripturally accurate.

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I reply: I never said men could not get hair cuts, so I don't know why this was directed at me. I also never said men could not trim their beards, but I actually said just the opposite, which makes me wonder if Hebraic Way thoroughly read my post.

In short, if marring the beard equals trimming the beard, then marring the hair would equal trimming the hair, and then men could not trim their hair, which is obviously incorrect, especially in light of 1 Cor. 11:14.

Junia writes:

quote:

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Maybe I am wrong on my assumptions here but as I see it, having a beard is a given for the male of YAH's people & leaving the hairline is another. Now we can worry all we want about how to trim the beard or cut the hair. How long is long & how short is short ( though Scripture doesn't seem to say anything about short) is something we can debate. But , as I see it a man will have a beard if he doesn't Mar it, so he is supposed to have a beard.

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I reply: I agree again, Junia. When a man shaves, he is shaving to remove hair from his face, thus destroying his beard. Men are not to destroy their beards (Lev. 19:27). One last Scripture, pertaining to the "male / female" thing:

And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men. And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions. {Rev 9:7-8}

The above verse is self explanatory; we all know what the hair of women, and the teeth of lions are. Do we know what the face of men is?

Blessings, friends,

Matthew Janzen