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Author Topic:   What were they thinking?
EliYah

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posted 10-30-2000 10:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for EliYah   Click Here to Email EliYah     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Shalom all,

I'm not of the mind that Iesous can be traced back to some variant of Zeus, but something was brought to my attention some time ago that I thought was worth sharing.

Below is a scan of the original 1611 King James Version. Notice the highlighted verse, Luke 4:27..

This is supposed to be speaking of Elisha the prophet. Somehow, his name (through greek, then english) has been altered to Elizeus. Many of us know that in Hebrew, Eli means "My Mighty One". Yahushua cried out "Eli, eli lama sabachthani" just before His death. EliYah means "My Mighty One is Yahweh". So what would EliZeus mean? I don't really even want to say it.


------------------
With love in His service,

EliYah

[This message has been edited by EliYah (edited 10-30-2000).]

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Patrina

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posted 10-31-2000 05:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Patrina     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
.

[This message has been edited by Patrina (edited 10-27-2001).]

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buster

Posts: 117
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posted 10-31-2000 08:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for buster     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
EliYah,

thank you for your gentle approach to correction.

I try to consider others when posting, however I'm not always able to keep from offending some.

I see your point, I think there are many passages that one, (with the help of a good concordance, and a good working knowledge of Greek and Hebrew), could rewrite and rightly so, some can also be very wrong.

I have only the concordance, so I am somewhat lacking.

When I was first called, I knew that something in me had changed.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Then I only had knowledge of The Father and His son, who in my bible was named Jesus Christ, (NT) Lord God (OT). Thats all I knew, if someone would have told me at that time His sacred name I probably would have rejected it because of my lack of knowledge. As I grew in knowledge , after being convicted by that name, by the one who bore that name, (remember it was all I knew at the time), I then began to learn His truths, Sabbath, Holydays, etc. However, because that is what was being taught (jesus christ) and no one ever questioned it, I went along. It wasn't till other "truths" were being changed in the church I attended, did I even begin to question things, I was being led by the Spirit to see that some of the teachings of "men" could not be trusted, I began searching. Having nothing but a bible, concordance, and a few comentary's, I began to see that this one called (jesus, Iesous in the greek) ,

I saw something wrong with that.Why would a Jewish boy have a greek name?
This is what I saw:

Matt 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ , the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Jesus
Strong's # 2424 Iesous (ee-ay-sooce'); of Hebrew origin [3091]; Jesus (i.e. Jehoshua), the name of our Lord and two (three) other Israelites: KJV-- Jesus. (DIC)


BDB/Thayers # 3091
03091 Y@howshuwa` {yeh-ho-shoo'-ah} or Y@howshu`a {yeh-ho-shoo'-ah}
from 03068 and 03467;
AV - Joshua 218; 218
Joshua or Jehoshua = "Jehovah is salvation"
n pr m
1) son of Nun of the tribe of Ephraim and successor to Moses as the
leader of the children of Israel; led the conquest of Canaan
2) a resident of Beth-shemesh on whose land the Ark of the Covenant
came to a stop after the Philistines returned it
3) son of Jehozadak and high priest after the restoration
4) governor of Jerusalem under king Josiah who gave his name to a
gate of the city of Jerusalem

Christ
Strong's # 5547 Christos (khris-tos'); from 5548; anointed, i.e. the Messiah, an epithet of Jesus: KJV-- Christ. (DIC)


BDB/Thayers # 2424
2424 Iesous {ee-ay-sooce'}
of Hebrew origin 03091; TDNT - 3:284,360; n pr m
AV - Jesus 972, Jesus (Joshua) 2, Jesus (Justus) 1; 975
Jesus = "Jehovah is salvation"
1) Joshua was the famous captain of the Israelites, Moses' successor
2) Jesus, son of Eliezer, one of the ancestors of Christ
3) Jesus, the Son of God, the Saviour of mankind, God incarnate
4) Jesus Barabbas was the captive robber whom the Jews begged Pilate
to release instead of Christ
5) Jesus, surnamed Justus, a Jewish Christian, an associate with
Paul in the preaching of the gospel


BDB/Thayers # 5547
5547 Christos {khris-tos'}
from 5548; TDNT - 9:493,1322; adj
AV - Christ 569; 569

Christ = "anointed"

1) Christ was the Messiah, the Son of God
2) anointed

I started looking at the names for what they meant, and not how they sounded, or how they were spelled, just the meanings. Now can one say that some of these sound the same as some pagan god, that was given the same meaning, as a means to decieve, its possible isn't it?

( I do not mean the Hebrew names)


Gen 2:4 These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens

Lord:

Strong's # 3068 Yehovah (yeh-ho-vaw'); from 1961; (the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God: KJV-- Jehovah, the Lord. Compare 3050, 3069 (DIC)

BDB/Thayers # 3068
03068 Y@hovah {yeh-ho-vaw'}
from 01961; TWOT - 484a; n pr dei
AV - LORD 6510, GOD 4, JEHOVAH 4, variant 1; 6519
Jehovah = "the existing One"
1) the proper name of the one true God
1a) unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of 0136

God:

Strong's # 430 'elohiym (el-o-heem'); plural of 433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: KJV-- angels, X exceeding, God (gods)- dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty. (DIC)

BDB/Thayers # 430
0430 'elohiym {el-o-heem'}

plural of 0433; TWOT - 93c; n m p

AV - God 2346, god 244, judge 5, GOD 1, goddess 2, great 2, mighty 2,
angels 1, exceeding 1, God-ward + 04136 1, godly 1; 2606
1) (plural)
1a) rulers, judges
1b) divine ones
1c) angels
1d) gods
2) (plural intensive - singular meaning)
2a) god, goddess
2b) godlike one
2c) works or special possessions of God
2d) the (true) God
2e) God

I do not have much background concerning the Hebrew names, with the exception of what these 2 concordances reveal. If you have more please pass it on.

Please remember that all are not on the same level of undrestanding on any given subject, or doctrine.

to all, please be patient, remember the "little ones"

remember what the names mean

in the love of messiah
sam

btw thank you for this forum

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Bosassyah

Posts: 190
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posted 11-01-2000 04:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bosassyah   Click Here to Email Bosassyah     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
[QUOTE]Originally posted by buster:
[B]EliYah,

Please remember that all are not on the same level of undrestanding on any given subject, or doctrine.

to all, please be patient, remember
the "little ones"
------------------------------

I agree, Buster! We must never forget the "little ones" on this journey of knowledge. It can become very confusing, if we forget to apply gentleness along with the learning.

Thanks for the reminder!

This thread is a deep one indeed.

Thank you Father Yahuweh, Yahushua, and Eliyah!

Bosassyah


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novice

Posts: 369
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posted 11-02-2000 12:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for novice     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
This is good. Thank you.

I do find it surprising that this thread is not hot. Everytime in the past when the Zeus isssue was raised, it was shot down...hummmmm


We all must continue to search for the truth, even when it does not agree with 'our theology'.

The plot thickens....

:-)

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Prophet_Shemuale

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posted 11-06-2000 04:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Prophet_Shemuale   Click Here to Email Prophet_Shemuale     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
EliYah great Post, Yes that was a original mistake the Non-Christian scholars made, they didnt even care actually just doing the work of King James.


I, myself, know that KJV is the most accurate English Translation but There are many mistakes in it, I just did some minor comparisons with the KJV and an Interlinear. Not exactly the Same in all the places. Plus there were 13 mistakes in the Origianal Texts, mostly in spelling, others in age. Because the Scribe didnt pay close enough attention to copying the Text.

------------------
2 Tim 2:15 Study to show yourself approved unto Yahweh, a workman doesn't need to be ashamed, knowing How to rightly divide the Word of truth.

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YahismyEl

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posted 11-12-2000 08:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YahismyEl   Click Here to Email YahismyEl     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Shalom EliYah,

I haven't seen that bible before. I would like to get a copy of that one and use it when someone is trying to tell me that the name is jesus, I could show them the original and ask them what do they think happened to the hook on the letter J? also i noticed tha tin verse 22 they have spelled the name Joseph, Iosephs. Of course we all know what they were thinking right? Probably, if we put the true name in we will be wipped, so we better say that Iesus is the name.

Yet, we all have to remember that Yahweh has a master plan and is not giving His Holy name to everyone . Not yet. So therefore I feel He let them make their mistake to hide His true name and make Proverbs 30:4 come to pass and be a real challange for all.

Good post very interesting.

Shalom

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thes0wer

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posted 09-05-2001 07:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for thes0wer   Click Here to Email thes0wer     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I too am a "little one" and find this posting to be right in line with the other things that G-d has led me to. I am searching and praying. I am in His care and He is my Salvation.Thank you so much and may He bless you as you continue to question what you were taught as a child as I do.

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Yahnkee

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posted 09-06-2001 04:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yahnkee     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
lord There are various Hebrew and Greek words so rendered. (1.) Heb. Jehovah, has been rendered in the English Bible LORD, printed in small capitals. This is the proper name of the God of the Hebrews. The form "Jehovah" is retained only in Ex. 6:3; Ps. 83:18; Isa. 12:2; 26:4, both in the Authorized and the Revised Version. (2.) Heb. 'adon, means one possessed of absolute control. It denotes a master, as of slaves (Gen. 24:14, 27), or a ruler of his subjects (45:8), or a husband, as lord of his wife (18:12). The old plural form of this Hebrew word is _'adonai_. From a superstitious reverence for the name "Jehovah," the Jews, in reading their Scriptures, whenever that name occurred, always pronounced it _'Adonai_. (3.) Greek kurios, a supreme master, etc. In the LXX. this is invariably used for "Jehovah" and "'Adonai." (4.) Heb. ba'al, a master, as having domination. This word is applied to human relations, as that of husband, to persons skilled in some art or profession, and to heathen deities. "The men of Shechem," literally "the baals of Shechem" (Judg. 9:2,3). These were the Israelite inhabitants who had reduced the Canaanites to a condition of vassalage (Josh. 16:10; 17:13). (5.) Heb. seren, applied exclusively to the "lords of the Philistines" (Judg. 3:3). The LXX. render it by satrapies. At this period the Philistines were not, as at a later period (1 Sam. 21:10), under a kingly government. (See Josh. 13:3; 1 Sam. 6:18.) There were five such lordships, viz., Gath, Ashdod, Gaza, Ashkelon, and Ekron.

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Lavi_Chagyah

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posted 09-07-2001 12:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lavi_Chagyah   Click Here to Email Lavi_Chagyah     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
[QUOTE]Originally posted by EliYah:
=================================================================
Many of us know that in Hebrew, Eli means "My Mighty One". Yahushua cried out "Eli, eli lama sabachthani" just before His death. EliYah means "My Mighty One is Yahweh".
=================================================================
......Shalom Yliyah ! FYI :

In Aramaic " Yli " means strength !
So when Yahshua cried out on the stake...." Yli , Yli lamah ozabatiniy " ..it can be properly translated :
.." My strength, My Strength, Why have you forsaken me ?"
And it follows : Yliyah means "The Strength of Yahweh"

Shalom !
Lavi Chagyah

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ThePhysicist

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posted 09-07-2001 01:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ThePhysicist     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
How does one spell "yli" and "Yliyah" in Aramaic/Hebrew script?

ThePhysicist

[This message has been edited by ThePhysicist (edited 09-07-2001).]

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Lavi_Chagyah

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posted 09-10-2001 12:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lavi_Chagyah   Click Here to Email Lavi_Chagyah     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ThePhysicist:
=================================================================
How does one spell "yli" and "Yliyah" in Aramaic/Hebrew script?
ThePhysicist
=================================================================
........Shalom TP !
Strongs # 353 Aleph - Yod - Lamed !

Brown-Driver-Briggs show this word "Yli" to be a "loaned" aramaic word !

Shalom !
Lavi Chagyah

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ThePhysicist

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posted 09-10-2001 02:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ThePhysicist     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Shalom Lavi

However, BDB vocalizes alef-yod-lamed as "eyal" not "yli". Although alef quiesces at the end of a syllable, it does not at the the beginning of a syllable. When grammar would otherwise indicate a sh'va, the gutterals take a compound sh'va instead, which is what we have in "eyal" with a khataf segol. The pronunciation "yli" produces an initial 3 consonant cluster, which as far as I know does not exist in Hebrew. Can you point to any other cases of an initial unvocalized alef or an initial 3 consonant cluster?

ThePhysicist

[This message has been edited by ThePhysicist (edited 09-10-2001).]

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Lavi_Chagyah

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posted 09-10-2001 04:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lavi_Chagyah   Click Here to Email Lavi_Chagyah     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ThePhysicist:
[B]Shalom Lavi
=================================================================
However, BDB vocalizes alef-yod-lamed as "eyal" not "yli". Although alef quiesces at the end of a syllable, it does not at the the beginning of a syllable.
=================================================================
...........Br-Dr-Br is a superior Lexicon...however it pales a pronounciation guide ! I wouldn't recommend it !
Rashi is a much better translator & pronounciation source !In Aramaic the Alef is silent and un pronounced !
================================================================= Can you point to any other cases of an initial unvocalized alef or an initial 3 consonant cluster?
ThePhysicist
=================================================================
........Yes Any of Rashi's grammar & pronounciation guides regarding Aramaic !..also Mosheh Gasters notes on Samaritan Texts in the British Librarys Collection of Gasters works ! I would also urge you to arrange to acquire a copy of " An Hebrew and English Lexicon Without Points" by John Parkhurst 1799, J.Davis London England. And " A Practical Grammar for Clasical Hebrew" by J. Weingreen , 1939, Oxford University Press, London England

These should be a great help!,because the Masoretic text confounds Classic Hebrew & Aramaic !

Shalom !
Lavi Chagyah


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ThePhysicist

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posted 09-10-2001 05:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ThePhysicist     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Shalom Lavi

I wanted actual examples of vocabulary not a list of reference books. I own Weingreen and know of no such forms mentioned therein. Weingreen is actually a rather basic book. Seow is a much more detailed discussion of the development of the language. Again no quiescent initial alef's or initial 3 consonant clusters. I could mention other references on the history of Hebrew and its spelling that do not indicate this phenomenon, but that is not my point here. I own a good set of Hebrew references, so please don't try to snow me by listing yours. Since the compilers of BDB had Rashi available to them, any deviation from Rashi represented a conscious choice on their part. You have not demonstrated that Rashi is better than the Masoretes, or BDB, or modern scholars. Until I see a demonstration of the superiority of Rashi, I will stick with what I have.

Of course, the consonant alef is a silent constant (actually a stop), but the initial alef in a syllable is vocalized by a vowel. A check of the Aramaic section of BDB will reveal that the initial alef of all the vocabulary entries is vocalized. If you know of any non-controversial counter-examples please list them.

As for spelling, "Eli" as in "Eli, Eli" in Ps 22 that is quoted in the NT is spelled alef-lamed-yod and Eliyah(u) is spelled alef-lamed-yod-hei-(waw). The yod in alef-yod-lamed is in the wrong place, so the issue is not just one of the pointing but of the consonantal text itself.

ThePhysicist

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