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  CHRISTIANITY DOES VIRGINITY (Page 3)

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Author Topic:   CHRISTIANITY DOES VIRGINITY
ShaniYah

Posts: 302
Registered: Aug 1999

posted 11-14-1999 09:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ShaniYah   Click Here to Email ShaniYah     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Where in the Old Testament does it say anything about a bride for the Messiah of YHUH?

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ShaniYah

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Jayjay

Posts: 211
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posted 11-15-1999 01:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jayjay   Click Here to Email Jayjay     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Shalom

Shaniyah & others

Surely you have read the Song of Solomon, Shaniyah. It's in the Old testament, and most churches shy away from it as it is a little too explicit in its sexual language. But after you read it for while and realize what's happenning there, it is definitely about the Bride (the church , assembly, etc. the called out one) and ther Bridegroom (Jesus). Instead of the delicate treatment of
two people knowing each other which is a type of non-sexual way of saying they had sex, the Song of Solomon is more descriptive. Mind you it isn't for the weak spiritually, as it definitely makes it clear that the human body and its God created beauty isn't evil. Besides Just Bill already informed us about the heresy that the material world is evil fallacy, meaning to the pure all things are pure. Similiarly how are we going to fulfill the first commandement to be fruit ful and multiply without having sex. There was no insane cloning back then...

Similiarly ther Bride is talked about by David, in the Psalms, and we are told we are married to the Lord in Isaiah, so it is repeated enough times, over and over again, that a serious reader of the scriptures must realize that we are the Bride of Christ, if we truly love him. I also realize that if males are male oriented or thinking they are superior to women spiritually, that they might frown on the thought of them being called the Bride.
Oh well, in the spirit and in the hereafetr there is neither male nor female in Christ Jesus.

I'm not saying that's your slant on things, Shaniyah, just a general generalization that usually happens.

Still the truth is the Bride is talked about in the Old testament and is even incorporated in the final He of the sacred name, Yod-He-Vau-He.

In His Beautiful Name

Jordan

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ShaniYah

Posts: 302
Registered: Aug 1999

posted 11-15-1999 11:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ShaniYah   Click Here to Email ShaniYah     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Jayjay wrote
quote:
Surely you have read the Song of Solomon, Shaniyah. It's in the Old testament, and most churches shy away from it as it is a little too explicit in its sexual language. But after you read it for while and realize what's happenning there, it is definitely about the Bride (the church , assembly, etc. the called out one) and ther Bridegroom (Jesus).

Yes I have.
How and when did you come to the conclusion that it is about the church and Jesus? Did you come to this conclusion by reading the Song of Songs or because that is what the Church teaches? I do not know of any churches that shy away from it.

If this is what you believe, does that mean that you believe the Church has replaced Israel and taken Israel’s place, commonly know as spiritual Israel.

The bride that I see being talked about in the Old Testament is the bride of YHUH.

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ShaniYah

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Jordanfisherman

Posts: 55
Registered: Oct 1999

posted 11-16-1999 01:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jordanfisherman   Click Here to Email Jordanfisherman     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Shalom to all

Shaniyah

Of course, the Bride of Christ, contains Jews and Gentiles. Anyone could become a follower of Yahweh even in the Old testament. Wasn't Ruth, a Moabite, yet she loved the True
Creator of all mankind. And wasn't she in the linkage of Yahushua, even though the line is passed maternally.

She, like anyone, is part of the Bride of Christ, thru her faith. Faith has always been the acccess to becoming the Bride, mere birth has never been a quanantee, as many forsake their birthright. So according to the Old Testament and New Testament, only believers who have received the blood sacrifice and received the Grace of God like Noah and all are Yahushua forefathers, will be saved.

Whether Jew or Gentile, the Lord will accept either. That's fair and that's scriptural. Aren't you happy that the Creator of all accepts any that love Him. Sure there will be natural born jews, or nationals of Israel that will be part of the Bride of the End Time. God is not a racist and will bring all together for his glory, whether young or old, male or female, rich or poor, 1st world or 3rd, Jew or Gentile.

Thank Yahweh for His love for All. Amen?

Jordan Fisherman

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ShaniYah

Posts: 302
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posted 11-16-1999 06:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ShaniYah   Click Here to Email ShaniYah     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
The story of Ruth is one of my favorites.

Ruth 2:11-12

    ...And you left your father and your mother, and the land of your birth, and came to a people which you had not known before.

    YHUH will repay your work, and your reward will be complete from YHUH the Elohim of Israel, under whose wings you have come to take refuge.

The bride that I see being talked about in the Old Testament is the bride of YHUH.

With what you are professing there would have to be two brides.
One for YHUH and one for [Christ]. So in your opinion, who is the Bride of YHUH?

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ShaniYah

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Lou

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posted 11-16-1999 09:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lou   Click Here to Email Lou     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Shalom Shaniyah,
Your question should be, who is "Christ?"
Remember that the character of "Christ" was created by the early Christian church fathers... They declined to call themselves by the name of "Jesus" and be known as "Jesuits." They opted to call themselves "Christians" after "Christ" which is a Greek name.

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ShaniYah

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posted 11-16-1999 10:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ShaniYah   Click Here to Email ShaniYah     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Yes, I know what you mean Lou. But I know the Church teaches that they are the bride of Christ/Jesus which Jayjay is talking about, but he does not give me any real answers as to where in the Old Testament any of this comes from. I do not see anything in the Old Testament referring to a bride of Christ or of the Messiah or of Jesus. The only bride I see is the Bride of YHUH.

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ShaniYah

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Jayjay

Posts: 211
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posted 11-17-1999 03:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jayjay   Click Here to Email Jayjay     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Lou

Shalom

Allow me to address your rather strange post saying "who is Jesus"

We all know who Jesus is, he is the one encapsulated by his words. His words and his actions show his characher, it is not something the church fathers dreamed up.

If you know the eternal Jesus, via conversion, seeing the light, understanding his principles, however you came to yahushua, whether he is called Hesus in Latin, Jesus in English, Iesous, in Greek, Yahushua in hebrew, whatever the language, surely you aren't suggesting to Third World peoples that they must understand his proper spelling, pronounciation, yaddy yaddy yah, before they can connect up with the Creator of All things. Can you contradict all the scritpures that say that if you call out to Him with a full heart (Jer 33) and even if you don't know his name , he will show himself. He hears heart cries as in the children of Egypt in bondage, not the stifflened speech of the
seminarians. Surely you know what I mean, without word games , how can you negate the scriptural truths.

Jesus represents his actions and his words, they are consistent and true. They are writen in the Bible, surely again Lou, you aren't suggesting that all the gospels are forgeries, besides they fit harmonically with all the scriptures and prophecies and Torah, and all because Jesus was part of the Godhead. He is, was and will be, He is not some contrived figure made up by churchies. If you knew Him, you would know that? Churchies, screw up everything, with their traditions etc. etc. but they can never negate the truth of Yahushua nor His Spirit for it is the spirit of truth. Lies have no power over truth.

Surely you weren't saying who is Christ, when anyone can know him thru prayer.


Jordan Fisherman

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Lou

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posted 11-17-1999 06:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lou   Click Here to Email Lou     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
JJ,
If anyone seeks the Creator with all his/her heart he/she will end up learning about his name ("For there is no other name"). There is only one name. I found it. You probably did, too, but you don't know what to do about it. Yahushua has a meaning, "Jesus" doesn't. Salvation is only in the name of Yahweh (Joel 2:32)...

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Jayjay

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posted 11-18-1999 12:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jayjay   Click Here to Email Jayjay     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Shalom

I have to admit that the name of Jesus actually does have great power, even if it is in English. You see the Lord of Lords is also Lord of all languages and will even give us a new language and a new song when we all get together at the Marriage supper.

Anyway, his name worked miracles for me and others on the mission field for 30 years. So I have to acknowledge the truth that yes he has other names, in Latin, Greek, Hebrew, Armanian,
Zawheli, Russian, and Chinese, but the good old tried and proven and true name of Jesus works even without refinement.

Besides if we don't respect all his names and know him intimately from years of using his more formal name, how would we be given the right to use his more sacred and intimate Name.
There was always a pentalty for using a familiar name when not familiar with that person.

This is why those like in the Book of Acts trying to use the name of Jesus without intimately knowing Jesus were jumped upon by the demons, because their words meant nothing because they weren't backed up by 'knowing' the real Jesus' the real Yahushua'


Surely you understand this truth?

Power to Yahushua's Name, even though it already has absolute Power.

Jordan Fisherman

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ShaniYah

Posts: 302
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posted 11-18-1999 03:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ShaniYah   Click Here to Email ShaniYah     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Jayjay wrote
quote:
Anyway, his name worked miracles for me and others on the mission field for 30 years. So I have to acknowledge the truth that yes he has other names, in Latin, Greek, Hebrew, Armanian,
Zawheli, Russian, and Chinese, but the good old tried and proven and true name of Jesus works even without refinement.

Besides if we don't respect all his names and know him intimately from years of using his more formal name, how would we be given the right to use his more sacred and intimate Name.
There was always a pentalty for using a familiar name when not familiar with that person.


I take this as saying that you are a person that is familiar with and know him intimately, thereby able to work miracles through this in the mission field.

Because you have made this claim and want me to believe you, I ask that you come and work one of these miracles for my mother.

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ShaniYah

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Lou

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posted 11-19-1999 08:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lou   Click Here to Email Lou     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
But, did you notice the schlock quality of the miracles performed today in the name of "Jesus?" They are performed in a "circus," sorry, "church" environment. Nobody restored any sight to any blind man. Nobody made a blind man who never saw daylight to see it for the first time. Nobody resurrected any dead. Nobody made a limb grow on a man who was born without one. And get this, all of the above was done by Yahushua without any faith or expectancy of a miracle on the part of the of the affected individual.

If any of the above ever happened in recent history, it probably happened "long time ago" or "far away," usually in Africa. I know this line very well. To me the miracles that you perform in the name of "Jesus" while eating swine flesh and braking the Shabbat and being as Torahless as you can is no more than an effort to discredit our Heavenly Father Yahweh who will make us to be born again into a new body that will never ever perish. My Heavenly Father is in the creation business, not in the make believe patching business, although he can do patching, too. But, that is not his primary objective. Unlike the shabby quality of the miracles that you perform in the name of "Jesus" nothing tops the quality of the miracles performed by my Heavenly Father.

Charismatic Christianity is nothing more than a fad ever shifting into something new. The objective is to do a family reunion of all the daughters of that great whore religion that was born at Antioch, Syria, for the great last day. Anyway, I agree with you. We will all speak the same language. I strongly believe that we can get ahead of the Kingdom by making every effort to start learning and yearning that new language right now, not by condoning the Heathen names that took over the original name of our Heavenly Father.

Have a nice Shabbat everybody!
Lou

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Jayjay

Posts: 211
Registered: Oct 1999

posted 11-19-1999 03:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jayjay   Click Here to Email Jayjay     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Shaniyah & others

Of course, Christians who with faith pray using the name of Jesus can receive miracles.

Miracles just means instead of just repeating meanlessless words in ritualistic hope that something happens or a blessing is bestoyed even though there is no connection between the one praying and the One being prayed to, you pray knowing that your prayer will be heard and answered. Again prayer is knowing, knowing Yahushua and knowing your in His Will. There's no doubt, but to have such faith, you almost always have to be serving him, or with newcomers at least reaching out to him with sincerity.

We received many miracles, most of which were simply just surviving with food and raiment, for that's basically all he promises missionaries. Few luxuries in the physical only the spiritual.

As for physical healing, I've seen lots, seen lots of cursing of physical health as well. As for us, we were always amazingly healthy, no medical insurance etc. etc. , only the Lord as the best medicine is always to stay close to him.

Similiarly as mentioned healing for other people seldom happens as each person individually has to reach out to the Lord, it's not something I or anyone else can do for your mother, as that would be her option and not anothers' IMO.

As for Lous negative comments, I prefer he search for truths himself along the line of the miraculous.

But to query, you two, surely you must think you have some power or some access to YHWH's power, don't you. Don't you think, He will honour your prayers? Otherwise isn't all this search for knowledge, right name, right pronounciation, right time right ....all for nought.

Just a thought..

Jordan Fisherman

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Lou

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posted 11-26-1999 02:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lou   Click Here to Email Lou     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Hey Jordan,

You wrote...

"But to query, you two, surely you must think you have some power or some access to YHWH's power, don't you. Don't you think, He will honour your prayers? Otherwise isn't all this search for knowledge, right name, right pronounciation, right time right ....all for nought."
----------

There is such thing as waiting for the end... You can enjoy all the "power" you think you have right now calling on "Jesus" --- I'm waiting for the right moment... How much more positive can I get? But this is not the subject of this thread...

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Jayjay

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posted 11-29-1999 02:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jayjay   Click Here to Email Jayjay     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Shalom to Lou & All

Allow me to respond to Lou's thoughts about waiting for the right time to use the power of prayer before releasing our supposed might or the Lord's power.

I, in many ways agree that we are suppose to learn more about the Lord, and his will and the proper useage of prayer for the right time. Except that thru experience as a missionary, you often times see, new babes in Christ get absolutely miraculous results from their childlike faith. They just believed without doubts and fears, and of course because this follows the laws of prayer and access to the throne of God, there prayers are answered. They believe, it is done. So simple, no complications. You don't pretend to be righteous etc. etc. deserve the answered prayer etc., the its the Lord's will for let's say healing , it is done. New Christians, new to the Lord, aren't deluded with churchy doctrines etc. etc. so just prayer and believe. Matter of fact, they act as if the prayer has been heard and answered, like the Roman centurion. When they pray, they expect. And of course the Lord of Lords can't let them down.

As they grow older in the Lord, the Lord might expect a little more refinement and even more faith and absolute belief in the Lord's power but most new babes in Jesus lose faith as they study church excuses rather than Yeshua's possibilities. And when they don't serve the Lord, it's unlikely they will have the Holy Spirit and of course they lose more faith because they can't discern the Word which was designed to give them faith.

So anyway, Lou, you don't get stronger by storing up prayer energy to release it all at once sometime in the future. It's like other muscles, you have to work on them, execise your prayer muscles in small ways before the big contests come. Otherwise you are going into battle totally unprepared.

It doesn't take years of prayer history behind you though, as again a simple believing person can get much more answered prayers rather than a long timer. In the spirit, it's just a matter of absolutely knowing the Lord and knowing the Lord wants to do something and will do something, in his all powerful name.

That's my opinion. What do you reckon?

In Jesus Service

Jordan Fisherman

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