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Author Topic:   Is Yahshua Yahweh or Elohim
tapeinoo

Posts: 271
Registered: Dec 98

posted 12-24-1998 02:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for tapeinoo   Click Here to Email tapeinoo     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I recently received some of your materials from the house of Yahweh. In my initial reading you impress me as a cult caught up in playing word games to try and convince people that you are the sole possessor of the truth.

I also believe the Bible is the word of God "Yahweh", but it seems to me if you get so caught up in playing this word game you will miss the spirit and intentions of our Lord.

In a brief reading of your material on Paul and wether or not he abolished Gods law I noticed that you had misquoted some Verses found in Romans 2. In these verses Paul was addressing the Jews and trying to show them how caught up they were in enforcing the Law, and worshiping the Law that they were missing the main points of the law that the Gentiles were fullfilling naturaly. I found it ironic that you should go to these verses to try and prove your case only to be missing the spirtit of the message. I do not say this lightly, I am a person who had committed this chapter in Romans to memory along with other chapters. I have had this memorized for over 15 years and would daily pray and meditaite on it. I believe I know what it is saying, and can say with confidence that you are missing the point.

I feel that what you are getting close to saying about Paul also misses the spirit of the book of Galations.

Now to get to my question. Do you believe Yahshua is Yahweh or Elohim? Or to put it in our language; Is Jesus God?

This is a discussion I would very much like to enter into. Do you believe in the Trinity?

I would like to close by saying I have Known the Hebrew names for God, and Jesus for quite some time. I have used them interchaingably and have not noticed a difference in how or wether the prayer was answered. I have not noticed a difference in the presence of the Holy Spirit. Remember God looks on the heart. I don't think mother Teresa was all caught up in worring about the exact pronouncement of the name of God as she was busy doing the things that really matter to God "James 1:27" By the way I'm not Catholic.

Be carefull, don't get caught up in the letter. "The people worship me with their mouths but their hearts are far from me"

Sincerely,

Tapeinoo
"This by the way is a N.T. word"

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Lou

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posted 12-24-1998 08:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lou   Click Here to Email Lou     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
You must be biased by some strange notion that Shaul/Paul changed the letter and spirit of the Scriptures to mean something else. However, if he really did, "Let him be accursed!" to the fullest extent by the spirit in which it was written! I was a Christian once, until Yahweh allowed me to know his sacred name and how he feels about it. It is like digging into the feeling inside of Yahweh's heart as exposed by the Ruach HaQodesh/Sacred Spirit.

Exodus 9:13-18
* Then Yahweh said to Moses, "Get up early in the morning, confront Pharaoh and say to him, `This is what YAHWEH, the Elohim of the Hebrews, says: Let my people go, so that they may worship me ("My name is YAHWEH"), or this time I will send the full force of my plagues against you and against your officials and your people, so you may know that there is no one like me in all the earth. For by now I could have stretched out my hand and struck you and your people with a plague that would have wiped you off the earth. But I have raised you up for this very purpose, that I might show you my power and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth. You still set yourself against my people and will not let them go. Therefore, at this time tomorrow I will send the worst hailstorm that has ever fallen on Egypt, from the day it was founded till now.

Romans 9:15-17
* For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on Yahweh's mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."

Psalm 83:14-18
* As fire consumes the forest or a flame sets the mountains ablaze, so pursue them with your tempest and terrify them with your storm. Cover their faces with shame so that men will seek your name, O YAHWEH. May they ever be ashamed and dismayed, may they perish in disgrace. Let them know that you, whose name is YAHWEH-- that you alone are the Most High over all the earth.

David earned the title of being "a man after Yahweh's own heart." David may have broken many mitvoth/commandments in his life, but I see no record of David using the the name of Goy/Heathen mighty ones to worship Yahweh the way Christians and most Jews do.

BTW, This is an open forum... You and I have no "leaders" here. We express our views in a decent and documented way and our posts are read by the whole world. Any undocumented and otherwise indecent post will probably be deleted before you know it.
About your question on the "trinity." I was personally led by the Ruach HaQodesh/Sacred Spirit to discover that it is no more than a Christian concoction put together by the early church fathers to accommodate their Goy/Heathen upbringing. Christians are forced to believe in the "trinity" otherwise they fall under more than one curse pronounced by the early church fathers. As you can see, made up doctrines are easily believed by the Christians while the written truth in Yahweh's Word is not. Do you catch the "spirit" of the above quotes? Yahushua did! He taught us to pray that his sacred Hebrew name be sanctified, not substituted by Goy/Heathen names.

May Yahweh have mercy on all of us!
Shalom,
Lou

[This message has been edited by Lou (edited 12-24-98).]

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Lou

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posted 12-25-1998 12:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lou   Click Here to Email Lou     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
So far I believe that Yahushua HaMaschiach is the Word, Face, or Messanger of Yahweh, also known as the "only begotten of the Father" who eventually became flesh and dwelt among us. He is an Eloha/Mighty One who willed himself the inheritance of the universe. As soon as he takes over his own inheritance he will share it with "whomsoever he wills" -- So it doesn't depend on anyone's desire or effort, but on Yahushua's will about who is going to inherit the Earth along with him. His will is the same as his Father's will.

John 5:21-23
* For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

The NT is a good source of important information about the life and deeds of Yahushua HaMaschiach. The NT canon is a legacy of the Catholic Church. The books were declared officially inspired and part of the sacred canon by the Roman Catholic Church only after Martin Luther's protest. Martin Luther disliked a lot of the books in the Scriptures.

According to Yahweh's Word/Law only Matthew, John, and Peter qualify to write a first hand eyewitness report of Yahushua's life and deeds, the rest of the writers are not eyewitnesses, they wrote "hearsay" account of what might have taken place at that time. All NT writers decided to do some writing many years after the events. John (an eyewitness of Yahushua's work) says that there is not enough room in the world to stack the books that would be written about the life and deeds of Yahushua HaMaschiach. However, we have an eyewitness (Matthew) report written on the life of Yahushua and guess what? There comes Mark and Luke who never knew Yahushua HaMaschiach personally, and the only thing that they can do is to copy MOST of what Matthew wrote. It all happened because the arly church fathers needed to have 4 "gospels" for purely mystical reasons. They needed 4 "gospels" so they picked the four we have today out of many that were available at that time.

Shalom,
Lou

[This message has been edited by Lou (edited 04-15-2000).]

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tapeinoo

Posts: 271
Registered: Dec 98

posted 12-24-1998 12:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tapeinoo   Click Here to Email tapeinoo     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Dear Lou:

You have answered the question on the Trinity and I thank you for that. How about my other question, the one concerning the Christ "Messiah" the one called Yeshua or by us Christians Jesus. Is Yeshua Yahweh or Elohim? Is He the almighty who created the world and everything in it?

Another questiion: Do you accept all of the books of the New Testament as sacred text divinely inspired, or are there some that arent'? Are there some that should have been included but weren't? In other words; do we have a perfect canon of the New Testament?

I would very much like to know your deepest and most honest thoughts on this matter. Feel free to E-Mail me again. I lost your address when I had deleted your mail after reading it.

Yours Truly,


tapeinoo

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tapeinoo

Posts: 271
Registered: Dec 98

posted 12-25-1998 01:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for tapeinoo   Click Here to Email tapeinoo     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Lou:

Let me see if I follow you; Yahshua is in a postition to inherit everything and take over the family business. But who did the creating? Where is the Father going to go? Is Jesus about to become YHWH? What about all that talk in the TORAH about only one God. What about all the Talk in Isaiah about no God's before me none after me et. 43:10 or Yhwh question in Isaiah "Are there any Gods besides me? I know not any!"

So you don't believe the NT to be God breathed. Well there's atleast some evidence that some of the chief Apostles you mentioned like Peter believed Paul was writting scripture.

Check out 2nd Peter 3:15 &16;

"And account that the long-suffering of our Lord is Salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction.

The key word here is other Scriptures.

Cross Ref this with 2nd Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, or closer to the original language would be God breathed.

Here is something from left field to think about. Ivan Panin an Atheist Russian Mathemetitian discovered an unduplicatable mathmatical structure to the Bible. He converted after this discovery. He challenged his contemporaries to disprove his findings. It has never been done. To this day Computers are unable to even get close to it. Guess what? The structure also exists in the New Testament. Mathew has the same structure as Genesis interlocking sevens, and so on.

Sincelrely,

Tapeinoo

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Mattityahu

Posts: 298
Registered: Dec 98

posted 12-24-1998 02:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mattityahu   Click Here to Email Mattityahu     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
This might seem strange, but I accept the words of Paul as more than the Gospels. Why?
Paul was not the only one persecuting the Church. He was, however, converted by YHVH. Why was he chosen? I think its because he would reach the right conclusions about Yoshuha. YHVH knew he would convert countless people. Would YHWH have chosen him if he would teach lies?
I have also found a contradiction in Matthew, Mark and Luke. They say that the day of Passover is the first day of Unleavened Bread. But its not! (Read the last supper stories.) Can anyone explain this?
- Matthew

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TimMKeys

Posts: 75
Registered: Dec 98

posted 12-25-1998 01:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TimMKeys   Click Here to Email TimMKeys     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Just a quick thought...
Did you ever think that Mark and Luke got thier material largely from direct associates of Jesus? Namely, Mark worked with Peter, and Luke shows an inside knowledge of things not written by Matthew, probably gleaned from the apostles, the women that followed Christ, and Paul.

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TimMKeys

Posts: 75
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posted 12-25-1998 01:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TimMKeys   Click Here to Email TimMKeys     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Mattiyahu,
If you accept the conversion story of Paul, then why not accept the book of Luke, included among the Gospels? Luke wrote the conversion story of Paul in Acts. The book of Acts was the second part of Luke's writing. It doesn't make sense to accept the second part as inspired, and question the first, does it?

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tapeinoo

Posts: 271
Registered: Dec 98

posted 12-24-1998 06:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tapeinoo   Click Here to Email tapeinoo     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I hope this helps, if not give me something more to clarify. Obviously the authors of the Gospels should know what day it is. Often when I hear of an alledged contritiction I wonder if the person posing it asks the question; Why wouldn't the N.T. authors have been intelligent enough to figure this out, or everyone that has been believing every word of this for the last two thousand years.

I think the solution to your problem can be found here;

There are two basic positions embraced by evangelical scholars on this point. Those who hold that Jesus ate the passover lamb (and instituted the Lord's Supper at the end if it) on the same day it was observed by the Jews, support their views as follows: (1) It was the day required by O.T. Law, and Jesus sais He did not come to destroy the Law but to fulfill it. (2) It seems to be the meaning of Mark 14:12 which says it was "on the first day of Unleavened Bread, when they killed the Passover lamb." (3) When John 19:14 speaks of it being "the preparation Day of the Passover" they take this to mean simply the preparation for the Sabbath which occurred in that paschal week.

Other scholars contend that Jesus ate the Passover lamb on the day before the Jews did because: (1) He had to eat it a day early (Thursday) in order that He might offer Himself the next day (Good Friday) as the Passover Lamb (cf. John 1:29) to the Jews, in fulfillment of the OT type on the very day they were eating the Passover lamb (1 Cor. 5:7). (2) The plain reading of John 19:14 is that it was "the preparation day of the passover" [not the Sabbath], or in other words, the day before the passover was eaten by the Jews. (3) Likewise, John 18:28 affirms that the Jews did not want to be defiled on the day Jesus was crucified "that they might eat the passover."

Hope this helps,


Tapeinoo

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Mattityahu

Posts: 298
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posted 12-25-1998 10:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mattityahu   Click Here to Email Mattityahu     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I accept all of the books of the Bible as inspired. I was just confused about an apparent serious contradiction. Now, once again, I accept the Words of Yohushua, as recorded.
Thanks, Tepeinoo. That helps.
-Matthew

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TimMKeys

Posts: 75
Registered: Dec 98

posted 12-25-1998 03:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TimMKeys   Click Here to Email TimMKeys     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Matthew,
Glad to hear that you do accept all of Scripture. Never let go of your faith in it, regardless of the seeming evidence against it. They have stood the test of time, they have made believers out of their worst critics, and have survived countless attacks by men who were considered to be the best minds of their day.
A Blessed Sabbath to you all,
Tim

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tapeinoo

Posts: 271
Registered: Dec 98

posted 12-25-1998 07:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tapeinoo   Click Here to Email tapeinoo     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Dear Matthew:

You are more than welcome. I am happy to see you come down on the side of the scriptures. There are plenty of reasons to believe in them.

I have heard from so many people that the Bible contradicts itself, yet very few are able to produce one. It has been stated so often in our pop philosophy culture that people just accept it. They spew out what they've heard, then when put to the test are unable to produce a contradiction. And if one is produced it can usualy be cleared up if your willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the scriptures, like you were.

The irony in all of this is that the scripture verses that cause this controversy like the synoptic Gospels actual prove that these were different eye witness acounts. They add to their credibility!

Think about it if they were identical in their telling of the story then the critics would throw at words like plagiarism, and collaboration. No matter what kind of Gospels we had someone would find a reason to not believe it.

Simon Greenlief wrote a book on this very subject 100 years ago. He was a prof. at Harvard, the formost expert on common law of his day. His students challenged him to admit the Gospels into the courtroom as evidence under the ancient document law. He was a sceptic at that point; not for long, after much scrutiny of the Gospel accounts he came to the conclusion that they were very credible. His final statement was that "You could prove in any courtroom in the land beyond a shadow of a doubt that Y'shua rose from the grave.

Take Care,

Tapeinoo

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Yliyah

Posts: 23
Registered: Sep 98

posted 01-04-1999 02:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yliyah   Click Here to Email Yliyah     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Tapeinoo

Please email me at yahshua2@camalott.com

Yliyah

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Lou

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posted 04-15-2000 12:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lou   Click Here to Email Lou     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
OK, Old Shep,
Here is the last editing for today before I go shlaffen...
Have a good Shabbat!
Lou

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