posted 08-01-1998 03:34 PM            

My Friend, good day to you.
It is most certainly the truth that Messiah ben David---Yahushua is the
Son of G-d. That He is the First Born, the First Fruits of the New, the
Refreshed, the Revived covenant. And yes indeed it is only through Him
that there is Salvation to and for any and ALL Mankind. For His name
is Salvation. The one who is separated unto the G-d of Israel.
However Messiah is not G-d, nor did He ever claim to be. All of that
has been instilled by the gentile church. That all comes out of paganism,
just as does the human blood sacrifice to appease a god. And no where in
Scripture does the G-d of Israel say that He shall take the things of
paganism, and scrub them clean and make them a glory unto Him.

My Friend, you seem to yet be steeped in the gentile church. You need
to come out of them. The son of predition is not going to spring forth
like a jack-in-the-box. For Paul says that he was coming into being in
His days. The pagan infestation to within Torah. The distorting of
the TRUE WORD of G-D.

My eyes become open wider the further that I walk away from the darkness
that is taught by the gentile church. ALL that the gentile chruch teaches
about their saviour is totally veiled, totally schrouded in paganism.
Cast it all aside, and you shall see a more beautiful view of the Messiah
of Israel than you can imagine. YOU MUST COME OUT OF THEM

Until Shiloh Comes
THEjamesWA

posted 08-01-1998 04:23 PM            

How can you say that blood sacrifice is the invention of the gentiles. The Temple in Jerusalem was the center of blood sacrifice, the slaughter of animals in atonement for sin.
Passover is a blood right. And Abraham, the founding father of the Jews was called on by Yahweh to make a blood sacrifice of his first born son Isaac. Only Yahweh's mercy and love toward Abraham intervened and Isaac was spared. Yahweh was satisfied with Abraham's willingness to obey him. And this obedience set in motion Yahweh's willingness to send his Son as an atonement for all of us through the seed of Abraham.

sojourner

posted 08-01-1998 05:58 PM            

My Friend, good day to you.

I did not say that the gentiles were the inventers of the blood sacrifice.
I said that Messiah ben David---Yahushua was not the ultamate of pagan
sacrifices, the human blood sacrifice to appease a god. For throughtout
the Origional Testament, the G-d of Israel says to His People, "DO NOT
sacrifice your children." How is it that G-d would tell His People not
to sacrifice their children, and then He turns around and sacrifices His
Own Son? That would make Him a hypocrite. And G-d most certainly is not
a hypocrite. Messiah's death is to the end of which Paul speaks of in--
Heb. 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that
by means of teath, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under
the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of
eternal interitance. 16 For where a testament is, there must also of
necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is of force after
men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

There is much more indepth understanding to the animal sacrifices of the
ancient days, than is presented or would be acceptable in todays world.
Mainly because, people are so wrapped up in blood----That is as long as
it is not theirs. Even though most would die for you. Very, very few
would dedicate their lives to you.

posted 08-02-1998 12:16 AM            

Then why did Yahweh require Abraham to sacrifice his son???

Micah6:6-8 With what shall I approach Yahweh,
Do homage to Elohim on high?
Shall I approach him with burnt offerings,
With calves a year old?
Would Yahweh be pleased with thousands of rams
With myriads of streams of oil?
Shall I give my first born son for my transgression,
The fruit of my body for my sins?

He has told you, O man, what is good,
And Yahweh requires of you:
Only to do justice
And to love goodness,
And to walk modestly with Elohim.

Jeremiah 6:26

My poor people,
put on sackcloth,
And strew dust on yourselves!
Mourn as for an only child
Wail bitterly,
For suddenly the destroyer
is coming upon us.

The Jews had affairs with the idol Baal who required that they sacrifice their first born sons to him. And they were more then willing to kill their own offspring to please an idol.
Yahweh is saying, with me this is not necessary.

Don't you comprehend the beauty and justice of an Elohim that provides his own son for the sacrifice. Doesn't this bring you to your knees and bring tears to your eyes. Doesn't an Elohim who releases you from the burden of sacrificing your own children or inferior cattle or animals make you want to love, obey and follow him. Doesn't a Elohim who frees you from your own sin by the gift of his own firstborn son make you long for him? Don't you see the beauty of the blood of the son. The free gift of Yahweh that frees you from guilt and ushers you in peace into his presence?

Who can label Yahweh an unfair judge when he offers the sacrifice of his only begotten son to free us from his judgement?

Rest you heart on this and praise the name of Yahweh and his son who frees us from sin.

Of course to accept this we must kill our pride, because there is nothing for us to do in order to recieive Yahweh's free gift. We don't have to kill our first born children, or bulls or rams, or follow the law to perfection...we only have to accept the free gift that Yahweh offered to us as a sacrifice for our sins.

Rest in Yahweh, slay the need within to control your own salvation...he is all sufficient and prepares the way for those that love him.

sojourner

posted 08-02-1998 12:36 AM            

I am lost in trying to understand this...Only Yahweh has offered to freely forgive and accept us, if we let go of our own striving and submit to him.......No other religion offers us this hope.

posted 08-02-1998 07:35 AM            

My Friend, good day to you.

I too was once a Christian, both a Protestant and Catholic. I too
was once a defender of the faith. I too once worshipped the saviour
of the gentile church and all of his projected ways and teachings.
Yet within me there was always and uneasyness. Something within
kept saying, "that is not right, that is not the way of the G-d of
Israel." And I knew, as I think most Christians do, that Christmass,
and Easter are both founded in paganism. That sunday is the ancient
pagan holy day. The more that I studied and scearched the Scriptures,
the more paganism I found within the teachings of the gentile churches.

The G-d of Israel is by no means a blood thirsty G-d, such as the
projections of the pagan gods. And in that which you posted is the
truth brought to light, to sight, to mind.
He has told you, O man, what is good,
And Yahweh requires of you:
Only to do justice
And to love goodness,
And to walk modestly with Elohim.

Acts 11:26 And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
What is your understanding of the Syrian King that this town was named
after? King Antiochus, The one who tried to give the Judean, the Jewish
people a replacement religion. And so it is that there are many of those
who are Jews and who have come to accept the coming of Messiah bed David-
Yahushua. That Christianity has brought into being "replacement theology."
And to bring this replacement theology into being, they have even made
replacement meaning for words. Faith==the establishmet of Torah,
Law==Torah, Justice==to live in Harmony with Torah, Love== the fulfillment
of Torah. We are justified by faith==We live in Harmony with Torah,
because Torah is established within us.

No my Friend, I see no glory in the human blood sacrifice of the Son of G-d.
In that, I can only see the fulfillment of paganism. You must come out of them.
However, I do realize just exactly how deeply ingrained this "strong delusion"
that is sent by G-d is set within mankind. And so it is that they shall all
believe a LIE and fall backwards. And to say that the G-d of Israel made a
pagan human sacrifice of His Son--That is truly falling backwards.

posted 08-02-1998 12:06 PM            

The Roman Catholic church, has killed more true Believers than any body else in the world. It has killed more Jews than any body else.It had the office of inquisitors set up to torture and burn at the stake any who were Jewish or had left the Catholic Church! It fully blessed Hitler, who was Catholic and the operations of the Riech. The Catholic Church, organized the Arabs under a false religion, of their own design, called Islam, to use them to Kill the true believers and the Jews. It goes on and on.

But sir and all here, understand, that it is not the way it is supposed to be. This is not what the Lord teaches us. Can you see how evil this thing is, that it drives away those who would otherwise be saved? This evil system started with Caine, and Sumer, and it spread to Babylon and every other civilization in history. It infected the Church, and it has spread to America. It is the spirit of Babylon, the Antichrist false religion.

I know that not every Catholic person does these things or believes these things. There are spirit filled people in all faiths. It is the Papal system of Rome and it's false doctrines that I speak of.If you are in bondage to this stuff, get out of it. Get away from it and repent of it. Return to YHWH. Call on the Lord Yeshua and allow Him to cleanse you of this evil Pagan stuff.

I know this is a hard word. I know that some may be offended, but sit down with the book in you hands and ask God, item by item, to show you if what you have been taught to practice and believe is His will. Look for it in the Scriptures. Find the places where Yeshua told His followers to make statues and to pray to them , or to the dead saints, or even to His earthly mother. Find the place where He says,you can pray your dead relitive out of pergatory, or buy them out of hell with a gift to the Pope. Find the place in the Words of Yeshua where your practices comes from, and the days to observe as Holy Days and where the Sabbath was to be changed.

Forgive me if I seem harsh, but all these things that have been done in the name of Jesus, are an abomination and a stinch in the nostrils of God. There is only one true God. And in His book,and by the witness of His son, Yeshua, he has shown us how He wishes to be worshipped, and loved. He has not given anyone the right to change these things.

ThejamesWa, there are many true believers who have heard this call and left the apostate Pagan churches. Don't let this sin of others separate you from the only means of salvation the Lord has given us, faith in Yeshua!

Charles

posted 08-02-1998 12:51 PM            

My Friend, good day to you

ThejamesWa, there are many true believers who have heard this call and left the
apostate Pagan churches. Don't let this sin of others separate you from the only means
of salvation the Lord has given us, faith in Yeshua!

My Friend, I have never lost my faith--my establishment of Torah in Messiah ben David--
Yeshua. For my Establishment in Torah through Him becomes stronger day by day.
However, there is one thing that you need to come into the understanding of my Friend.
And that is, that when ever Yeshua is equated, is related to be the same personage as
jesus. That defiles the name of Yeshua--Salvation. And it is partly in that cause
that in Rev. 3:12 that the L-rd says that He shall have a new name. That is not a brand
new name. Rather, a refreshed, a revived name, a name that shall identify Him with the
office of the Gathering of His people. For you see, it was in the office of Messiah ben
David---Yeshua, that Salvation was brought unto any and all of Mankind. And so it is in
the office of Messiah ben Joseph that Salvation shall come into its fulfillment. In the
Dwelling Place, in the Tabernacle of G-d---Shiloh. The name by which He is first identified
by in Scripture. The name by which our Father Jacob called Him.
Gen. 49:10 Until Shiloh Come, and unto Him shall the Gathering of the people be.

posted 08-03-1998 12:39 AM            

If Yeshua did not freely come to sacrifice himself to free us from the impossibility of fully obeying the law, then what was his purpose? And what is his purpose?

If he isn't the light for the gentiles what is he? Who is our light?

If he is not the son of Yahweh, what is his value?

If he is only a man, why follow his words, why remember his name?

If he is only a prophet or a king so what?

Is there any gentile "christian" worthy of your Elohim or are we all condemned in your view because we are not Jews?

I fully understand the apostasy of the Catholic Church and the pagan elements that abound there. I also know that all faith including yours is clouded by the bonds of clay that mire your soul.

The only relationship or "religion" that counts is this. We need a passionate all consuming love and longing for Yahweh and his Son. We need to allow ourselves to be freed from the weight of sin by the promises and sacrifice of Yeshua. We need to be freed from sin so we can come before Yahweh in peace. We must allow our pride to be vanquished and overcome by the love of Yahweh for us. We must cease trying to find ways or systems or laws for saving ourselves and depend fully on Yahweh and his Son. We must repent and become obedient servants of Yahweh. We become obedient to the will of Yahweh by reading his word. We allow the Holy Spirit to fill us and empower us to be servants so we might obey the greatest commandment which is to love others and to love Yahweh.

I think we might have more in common than our words seem to convey and that broad strokes of ideas and stereotypes impede the love of Yahweh.

sojourner

posted 08-03-1998 05:18 PM            

Ths directly contradicts Paul's explaination of the order of punishment and of reward. Paul explained this to the Romans:
Rom 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. (16) "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; the Jew First and also to the Greek."

Everything comes to the Jew first - Salvation or Wrath it MUST come to Israel first.
Later Paul says:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal (8) But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, (9) tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile (10) But GLORY, HONOR, and PEACE, to every man that worketh good, to the JEW FIRST, and also to the Gentile: (11) For there is no respect of persons with God.

Verse 11 is MOST important because this tells us that there is NO bias in Our Father however, there IS an 'order of things'. In Chapter 11 Paul speaks of his people, the Israelites.
(23) "And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. (24) For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural [branches], be graffed into their own olive tree? (25) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. (26) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: (27) For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

I think the phrase "THEIR OWN OLIVE TREE" says alot.

posted 08-03-1998 06:50 PM            

My Friend, good day to you.

If Yeshua did not freely come to sacrifice himself to free us from the impossibility of
fully obeying the law, then what was his purpose? And what is his purpose?
Heb. 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by meanbs of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no stringth at all while the testator liveth.

If he isn't the light for the gentiles what is he? Who is our light?
Luke 2:32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

If he is not the son of Yahweh, what is his value?
Yes, Messiah ben David is the Son of Yahweh.
If he is only a man, why follow his words, why remember his name?
Because He is the Anointed of G-d, He is Touched of G-d, He is the Living Word of G-d---Torah.

Is there any gentile "christian" worthy of your Elohim or are we all condemned in your
view because we are not Jews?
Isaiah 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger,-gentiles- that jon themselves to the L-RD, to serve him, and to love the name of the L-RD, to be his servants, every oine that keepeth the sabbath; from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant. 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them foyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
I am not a Christian, I am not a Jew. I await the reinstatement of the twelve tribes of Israel.

It is true my Friend. We each and everyone need to Love one another as He Loves us. For if you have not done it unto these the least of my brethren, you have not done it unto Me. Feed the hungry, cloth the naked, shelter the destitute, comfort the beaten the battered and the abused.
In short. STOP building religious mortalistic and monatary empires. INVEST IN THE PEOPLE OF G-D