Posted by J. on June 21, 1998 at 06:33:30:
In Reply to: Who has seen God? Who has seen the Father? posted by Patrina on June 20, 1998 at 22:03:30:
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No (mortal) man can "look upon the Father and live". Y'shua was the only exception, because the Father WAS His Father, actually. The "G-d of Israel" seen by Moishe and the 70 elders of Israel was Y'shua revealed before the incarnation.
J.
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: Shalom everyone,
: I noticed some interesting verses, and would like those who have thought about this to respond...
: Y'shua speaks about those whom the Father has given him in John 6: 37, and then says he came down from heaven to do the Father's will. A few verses later Y'shua declares that ONLY HE has seen the FATHER, in verse 46 - "No-one has seen the Father EXCEPT the one who is from God; only he HAS SEEN the Father". At the same time he refers to himself as the living bread that came down from heaven (Verse 50).
: Interestingly, we find that 74 people saw God on Mt Sinai which Acts 7: 38 implies was an angel. "He [Moses] was in the congregation in the desert, with our fathers and with the angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai; and he received living words to pass on to us." (So much for the criticism in churches today that the law is dead!!! They were "living words".) But the passage which describes the 74 people who "saw" God (Exodus 24: 9-11) makes a point of saying that God did not strike them [dead] even though they had seen him. To me that implies that they did not see just an 'angel'. Unless the angel of death was present, there wasn't the same risk in seeing an angel as there was for seeing God. However, verse 10 says they saw "THE GOD OF ISRAEL." Here are the verses:
: {9}"Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up {10} and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of sapphire, clear as the sky itself. {11} But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites: they saw God, and they ate and drank."
: These verses seem to contradict 1 John 4:12 "NO-ONE has EVER seen God." This verse also contradicts what Y'shua said in John 6: 46 mentioned above.
: To me the scripture seems to contradict itself on this issue. If they had just had a "vision", there wouldn't have been a reason to make a point of the fact that God didn't raise his hand against them. In fact, as extra emphasis, it repeats the fact that they "saw God" in verse 11. Hey, they even ate and drank with him - maybe he laid out a banquet for them!
: Patrina