Re: Another try:Re: HELP! 'Names' translations a non-issue here - Part II from Bro. Michael


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Posted by Brother Michael A. Banak on December 25, 1997 at 22:53:27:

In Reply to: Another try:Re: HELP! 'Names' translations a non-issue here posted by tony mason on December 06, 1997 at 14:01:09:

Dear Brother Tony,

Yahshua's kindness be poured upon you in abundance. Please forgive my delay in providing part 2. These delays are most
regrettable, but surely out of my hands.

In a previous post-up I claimed that I would offer a 2nd part in the explanation about whether or not mistranslation of names
and transliteration of names is an issue. This material my is attempt at fulfilling that promise.

There are three (3) powerful witnesses to the truth of transliteration.

All three of them are a record of what the Almighty Father does.

I am reminded of Yahshua's declaration that he can only do whatever he sees his Father in Heaven doing.

These three witnesess to transliteration are, in a sense, an application of that principle. Of course, there will be other
issues, and other aspects of the Sacred Name debate to consider. But these 3 points are Anchors in Bedrock. They highlight
the Almighty Father's Example. I can only do what I see Him doing.

Please give these points every possible consideration.

Scriptural Principle Number 1: The names of pagan kings in the Bible are transliterated. This fact is undeniable. King
after king. Even pagan generals earn this distinction. To name a few of these characters: Nebuchanezzar, Naman, Cyrus,
Ramses, Sennacharib, etc. This situation is so pronounced, that in the case of some of these personalities, we don't even
know what their names mean in their original tongue! Translation is thus impossible. The Spirit of Truth led the prophets
to record these ancient names, as closely as reasonably possible, into the Hebrew tongue. Are these transliterations
perfect? They are as perfect as possible, given the Hebrew letter-pool. There may have been limitations in Hebrew back
then, but I will maintain that these pagan names, as recorded in the inspired Scriptures, are as close as we can ever come to
knowing how these names sounded.

It would seem that Yahweh shows more respect for the names of pagan kings than we show for His precious Name...but there's
more...

Scriptural Principle Number 2: The names of pagan deities in the Bible are also transliterated. Similar to point Number 1,
above, this fact is also undeniable. In this case it is also easy to cite examples: Dagon, Baal (or Bel), Nebo, Ashtoreth,
Kiwan (Chiun), etc. As with the pagan kings, we again have no idea what some of these names mean because they were
transliterated and not translated.

It is time to inject a thought about transliteration. It appears to be, not a matter of "magic", nor a matter of "salvation
by works", but simply a matter of common sense and respect. Can anyone justify PURPOSELY mispronouncing the name of someone
they love, or someone they truly respect?

In the original Scriptures, we see transliteration on every page. In our translations, we see transliteration for
everybody's name, except Yahweh's, on every page. In light of principle #2, above it would seem that Yahweh shows more
respect for the names of pagan deities than we show for His matchless Name. But there's more, and this one is a "keeper"....


Scriptural Principle #3: Yahweh transliterates His own Name through the ages. This one is tricky...but everything you need
is here.

We turn to the burning bush passage in Exodus 3, near verse 14. At this point in time, Hebrew contemporary with Moses has 2
forms of the verb "to-be". One, HYH, and the other HWH. The first one, HYH, is now (at Moses' time) the standard, accepted,
common form of that verb. The other one has largely fallen out of usage. The last time it occurs is in Genesis 27:29. Back
there in Genesis, Isaac is blessing Jacob, who he thinks is Esau. Isaac says:

Let people serve thee, and nations bow down to thee: "BE" lord over thy brethren, and let thy mother's sons bow down to
thee...

You will notice I put the word "BE" in quotes and caps to draw attention to it. That is the last time I know of where this
ancient form of the verb "to be" is used, the form "HWH".

Yet, in Exodus 3, Yahweh explains his Name using the verb "to be" contemporary with Moses. "I am that I am" (or, "I will be
what I will be"). In Hebrew "EHYH asher EHYH". Let us parse this word "EHYH" a little. The leading E (aleph) is the first
person singular, and the verb, HYH, can be taken as either present or future tense. E + HYH = "I am / I will be"

Of course, when discussing the Name or referring others to it, Moses cannot keep using the first-person, and thus Yahweh
reveals the Name which He wants us to use from then on. Whenever you see the word LORD in the King James in all capital
letters, it is almost always the form Y + HWH = He is/He will be. The Y (or yodth) makes it third person, but the verb "to
be" in His Name appears in that ancient form.

BUT HERE IS THE MAIN POINT: Yahweh, blessed be His Name, makes no effort to update the spelling of His Name for accomodation
to Moses' Hebrew. Yahweh literally transliterates His Name from old, old, ancient Hebrew, clear up to Moses' Hebrew.

To put it in other words, if Yahweh had updated His Name to "modern" Hebrew for Moses, it would have been rendered "Y + HYH",
or, "Yahyah".

There are, in fact, places in the OT where the word "yahyah" exists, but it is always in reference to something other than
the Blessed Name, where a person or object is said "to be" or "will be". The one possible objection is poetic forms of the
Great Name in Ezekiel, where Yahweh calls Himself Yah-Yahweh. But brethren of discernment immediately see that ancient form
"Yahweh" still there. We are also very familiar with the short form "Yah" (as in HalleluYah), and this form "Yah-Yahweh" is obviously a combination of Yah + Yahweh. Thus any claim that Yahweh changed His name to "Yahyah" is groundless. After Ezekiel's time, the form Yah-Yahweh dropped largely out of usage, and the form "Yahweh" continued...all this by the Spirit's leading.

I will offer an anlogy, in English, to show the point better. If this conversation between Moses and Elohim occurred in
English, it would go something like this:

"I live that I live ... Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, "HE LIVETH" the Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim
of Abraham, the Elohim of Isaac, and the Elohim of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my
memorial unto all generations.

Notice how the Name is explained in modern English, but presented in Old English. That, in a sense, is what it sounded like
to Moses and every Hebrew after him.

-----------------

The trend is unmistakable. Yahweh transliterates the names of pagan kings, pagan gods and even His Own Name. Yet the
translators just don't get it. In most Bibles, everybody gets the respect of transliteration except He who gave them their very lives.

----------------

A possible exception answered:

I concede that there are 3 names translated in the Bible. I address them as follows:

1) "Abadon" in Revelation: The name is given in both Hebrew and Greek. There can be no doubt that Revelation was written
originally in Hebrew. It is some of the worst Greek ever written. When translated back into Hebrew it flows smoothly. In
fact, some scholars will suggest that John was "thinking in Herbrew, but writing in Greek". I think such a statement sells
the Spirit of Yahweh short. I would expect better from Him. No, I don't think all of the New Testament was done in Hebrew,
but this book certainly was. I cannot in good conscience draw any conclusions from this name, Abadon, having 2 forms in this
great book of Revelations from Heaven. In other words, the Greek form may have been added by a translator. Let me address
more pertinent examples next.

2) & 3). Peter and Thomas have their names presented in both Greek and Aramaic. John, in particular, records both of
Thomas' names. This is an easy one to handle. The answer is really quite simple. John and Thomas were known by 2
names...one Greek and the other Aramaic. Many people in the Scriptures had 2 names, especially in the New Testament. Unlike
some, I don't see anything dirty about the Greek language or with Greek names. Andrew, for example, one of the Apostles of
the Lamb, had a Greek name. No problem. Please note that both Peter and Thomas also have their names transliterated into English. No one in his right mind would ever suggest that we start calling Peter "Rock" and that we call Thomas "Twin". Their names, in both Aramaic and Greek, are presented to us, as-is. And that's the way to keep it.

Do these 3 examples over-rule the Three Priciples outlined above? I think not. Even if there are more than 3 examples of
names translated in the Scriptures, they could not possibly counter-balance the overwhelming preponderance of cases where the
Spirit of Truth inspires transliteration.

Now can we say that the Saviour's Name in Greek was acceptable?

Contrary to some, I do not believe at all that the name "Ihsous" in Greek was a fabrication of Christian Scribes. It was
actually penned hundreds of years prior, by a group of Hebrew/Greek scholars trying to translate the Old Testament into
Greek. In the case of every name, they invoked transliteration. Recent findings (last 75 years or so) have brought to light
that they rendered the Blessed Name of Yahweh in old Hebrew letters. But every other name was transliterated. "Ihsous" in
Greek was a legitimate attempt at transliteration for the name "Yahshua" (whom we know from the Old testament as Joshua son
of Nun). They had no "sh" sound available in Greek and simply did the best they could. A final "s" allowed them to conform
to the rules of Greek word construction. I have documentation that in the ancient Ionic Dialect of Greek, the letter "Eta"
was pronounced like an "ah" sound. How do we know this? In my references, there are 3 different records of people recording
the sound of a sheep using his voice. In every case, the sheep's cry is spelled with the Greek letters, 'beta-eta'. (If
anyone wants a copy of this by postal mail, send your address to me by email).

Thus I conclude that the Greek form "Ihsous" really did sound a lot like "Yahshua" with an "s" on the end.

I conclude that the Greek form of the Saviour's Name was an honest attempt at transliteration in the Apostle's time as well.
Today that form has become terribly corrupted. And, please, don't even think of trying to convince me of otherwise. I find
statements about ancient language pronunciation to be a lot of guesswork. The sound of a sheep, on the other hand, is very
well known.

But more importantly, I can show that even if their scriptures said "Ihsous", the earliest believers still made every reasonable attempt to pronounce the Name of Yahshua correctly. The pagan editorialist Celsus (in his book 'On the True Doctrine'), chides Christians for rejecting Latin and Greek forms of the Saviour's Name, in favor of PRONOUNCING it inHebrew. (Again, if you need more on this, please email me).

------------------

I apply these conclusions by transliterating from Hebrew to English, as best as I can. Not Hebrew, to Greek, to Latin, to Old English, and finally to modern English. It is a matter of Heavenly - ordained example and due respect. Hebrew (or whatever) to English. Case closed. And I have seen even little children and frail, elderly ladies understand this.

-------------------

A story to ponder.

When Moses concluded one of his encounters with Yahweh, he went home, only to find that an Angel was about to kill his son.
Moses was a Hebrew, and he should have circumcised his son a long time ago. He knew better. His wife, a Midianite (another
offspring of Abraham), also understood circumcision, quickly performed the ritual, and saved the boy's life. Question: Why
didn't Yahweh advise Moses of this shortcoming in the preceding vision? Here Moses and Elohim are very intimate, yet
judgment comes swooping down swift and seemingly out of nowhere?

The implication is that we cannot allow our relationship with the Saviour to lull us into thinking that everything is fine.
Yahweh puts up with a lot. But the closer you draw to Him, the more he expects of you...without Him having to remind you.

This applies to many doctrines: Sabbath, Feast Days, reverence for the Blessed Names, and other things as well. Please,
please, please, do not fall into Moses' brief error. Don't think that answered prayer, a close walk with the Saviour, or any
other experience is approval of your life. These things are simply unrelenting proof of his love. If you want to please
Him, you will do His will.

If you are not convicted of the Blessed Names now, I can live with that. I'd rather it not be so, but I am very willing to
let the Spirit call you upon Yahweh's timing. But please do not reject the Names simply because everything has been going
pretty well up until now.

This happened to Solomon as well. Yahweh appeared to Him twice and never warned him about his pagan wives, and other dangers
in his life. Yahweh simply told him to obey the commandments. Yet Solomon seems to have interpreted his intimacy with Yahweh as a stamp of broad approval. What a shame. In the 3rd vision, Solomon was rebuked sharply.

-------------------

In answer to your basic question, one might wonder if mistranslation of Names is at all an issue with Yahweh. Based on
Zepheniah 3:9, it is very obviously an issue with Him: "For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may
all call upon the name of the Yahweh, to serve him with one consent."

Yes in the kingdom, the problem of all these tragic translations will be solved. As a member of that kingdom, I represent
that position now .... as best as I can.

--------------------

Please give these points every possible consideration and prayer. Remember Yahshua's declaration that he can only do
whatever he sees his Father in Heaven doing. And He's our perfect example.

May Yahweh prosper your Faith in ways never before dreamed possible.

Yahshua's Shalom,
Brother Michael

PS: As before, please forgive errors in typing, etc.




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