Re:Truth


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Posted by Joseph on October 29, 1997 at 15:51:08:

In Reply to: Re:Truth posted by D'vorah on October 29, 1997 at 11:24:14:

Dear D'vorah: :
I MUST MAKE SOME IMPORTANT POINTS. "ALMAH" CAN ONLY MEAN YOUNG MAIDEN IN THE CONTEXT. IT NEVER MEANS ANYTHING ELSE. DOES THAT MEAN THAT AN ALMAH CAN NOT BE A VIRGIN, AS WELL? NO, AN ALMAH OR YOUNG MAIDEN CAN BE A VIRGIN, TOO. BUT THIS TEXT IN YESHAYAHU IN NO WAY IMPLIES "VIRGIN". THIS LOOSENS THE ASSOCIATION TO Y'SHUA TREMENDOUSLY.

IN ADDITION, UNLESS HAVING SOME ANCIENT TRADITION FOR AN INTERPRETATION, THE INTERPRETATION WHETHER LITERAL OR
ESCHATOLOGICAL MUST FIT THE CONTEXT. THE MESSIAH YOU SPEAK WAS NAMED YHWSHUA WHICH IN NO WAY RESEMBLES IMMANU-EL. NO MAN CALLED HIM THIS WHILE HE LIVED AS FAR I KNOW. EITHER WAY, IT WAS THE MOTHER WHO WAS TO CALL HIM IMMANU-EL, WHICH SHE DID NOT AND WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO ACCORDING TO THE STORY. ALSO, VERY VERY LITTLE IS KNOWN OF HIS CHILDHOOD- AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE SIGN. THE CONTEXT OF THE WHOLE CHAPTER JUST DOES NOT FIT ANY PART.

I BELIEVE THAT YOU FEEL FORCED TO CONVINCE YOURSELF THAT THIS VERSE REFERS TO YHWSHUA EVEN IF IT MAY NOT BECAUSE YOU HAVE ALREADY ACCEPTED THE "NEW TESTAMENT"/CHRISTIAN BIBLE AS TRUTH. THIS VERSE IS QUOTED IN THAT TEXT- SO NO MATTER WHAT, YOU FEEL YOU MUST CONVINCE YOURSELF IT REFERS TO YHWSHUA. SINCE I HAVE NOT ACCEPTED IT AS TRUTH YET, I DO NOT FEEL AS COMPELLED AND CAN LOOK MORE CRITICALLY, PERHAPS.
MORE TO COME.
PEACE AND GOOD WILL
SINCERELY,
JOSEPH

{{ 2)I do not fully understand your point. But I will add that the translation virgin is clearly forced in that text(I will explain further if you like later). The proper interpretation is young maiden which loosens the connection the verse has with Y'shua/Jesus. Also, the sign being spoken of was for king Ahaz.
: : Therefore, it is highly highly unlikely it is refering to Y'shua/Jesus(who was born HUNDREDS of years later). So, I do not see this verse as affecting my point in any way. }}

: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: Joseph....if you don't mind I would like to make a comment here about the 'virgin' in Yeshayahu/Isa. 7:14. I agree with you that the word used here in Hebrew is the word 'Almah'....but as you know this can mean both 'virgin' or 'young maiden.' Also, I know since you are also Jewish that you know that many of the Scriptures has a peshat/literal and an eschatological fulfillment...true?

: This passuk/verse actually has a double fulifillment...the peshat in king Ahaz's days...and when the Mashiach would come..His first coming.

: You know that the ancient chachamim/sages taught that there would be two comings..Mashiach ben Yosef and Mashiach ben David. We believers has documentation of the first coming in the B'rit Chadashah...have you really looked at this Mashiach ben Yosef of ours and truly seen if He fulfilled prophecy? You know it is said that at least 'tens of thousands'/myriads of Yehudim believed in the first century....must have been something pretty convincing for them for that many to have believed don't you think? And to be 'zealous' for the Torah also!!!!

: ~And when they heard it, they glorified the Master. And they said to him, "You see, brother, how many MYRIADS OF YEHUDIM THERE ARE WHO HAVE BELIEVED AND THEY ARE ALL ZEALOUS FOR THE TORAH. {Acts 21:20}

: Shalom uv'racha l'Yisrael,

: D'vorah




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