Shalom to everyone,
I had been a member of a christian website for a long time...I tried to share some of the things I have been learning, Yahweh's name, his Son and the 7th day Sabbath. It is amazing at these websites...they can share worldly stuff like Patrick Swazey and Mariah Carey stuff, Christmas things etc....I received a warning in my box there...letting me know that they are sorry to see I have gotten involved with a "sect" a sacred name sect....and they gave me an article from a Pastor explaining how Sunday is the Sabbath....well I tried I guess this is what it means...those who have ears to hear...basically I have been told the teachings here are lies...it is so sad. Since coming to the truth in June of this year....my "Christian" friends have all abandoned me..it amazes me that they are ecumenical in a sense of all denominations now "get a long" but if you mention the names or the Sabbath..they shun you like the plague....this is a very lonely walk....Yahweh is good though, and this website has been such a blessing to me. What baffles me is I ma willing to stay in a relationship with Christians all though we differ greatly in many areas and I cannot participate in the things I know are wrong...but they seem to turn on anyone that holds these beliefs...I have been told I'm in a cult now, or I have basically "fallen away" please keep me in your prayers....
I'm not even going to read the "Pastors" article about Sunday worship...it's sad they turn to man's teachings instead of Yahweh's word....
May Yahweh bless you all. I greatly enjoyed the Sabbath teaching....

Yahweh is so good. I was feeling sad about being "abandoned" all the way around...as friends and family seem to not want anything to do with me because of my beliefs etc....so later I came back on here and was checking around the home page...I clicked on the youth zone...LOL even though I'm not a youth, this helped me very much.....this explained a lot to me...and helped me to see I could never be a "close friend" to a non-believer.... thank you whoever wrote the following article!!

Youth Question and Answer Page
Q. So many young people around me do not serve Yahweh. How do I overcome the pressures?

A. First of all, one should not have an unbeliever as a close personal friend. Yahweh says:


Prov 12:26 (NKJV) The righteous should choose his friends carefully, For the way of the wicked leads them astray.

And:

Jame 4:4 (NKJV) Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with Yahweh? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of Yahweh.

Yahweh knows how deceptive it can be to have friends who are unbelievers. We need to be careful who our company is. If those around us are doing wrong things, we are just walking into a temptation. The only purpose we would have for being with unbelievers strictly for witnessing to them. This is often used as an excuse to be their friend, but there is a very big difference. The second you find anything they do as tempting, depart from them!

1Cor 15:33 (NKJV) Do not be deceived: "Evil company corrupts good habits."

Second, we need to remember that if we truly want to be Yahweh's servants that we must be different than everyone else. We should be joyful that we are different than the crowd! Anyone can go along with everyone else, but it takes someone special to be different.

1Joh 2:15 (NKJV) Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that [is] in the world--the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life--is not of the Father but is of the world. 17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of Yahweh abides forever.

When they mock you for being different, just remember that what you are going through truly pales in comparison to the whippings, spittings, beatings and eventual death that Yahushua went through because He also was not of the world and He too, was different.

Luke 23:33 (NKJV) And when they had come to the place called Calvary, there they crucified Him, and the criminals, one on the right hand and the other on the left. 34 Then Yahushua said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do." And they divided His garments and cast lots.

We must be different if we are on the narrow road that leads to eternal life. We can't be on the road that only a few find (Matthew 7) and still be on the path that everyone else is on.

Luke 6:22 (NKJV) Blessed are you when men hate you, And when they exclude you, And revile [you], and cast out your name as evil, For the Son of Man's sake. 23 Rejoice in that day and leap for joy! For indeed your reward is great in heaven, For in like manner their fathers did to the prophets.

Q. Why do some bad people often seem happy and "blessed"?

A. The Psalmist gives a great answer to this question:

Psal 92:5 (NKJV) O Yahweh, how great are Your works! Your thoughts are very deep. 6 A senseless man does not know, Nor does a fool understand this. 7 When the wicked spring up like grass, And when all the workers of iniquity flourish, It is that they may be destroyed forever. 8 But You, Yahweh, are on high forevermore. 9 For behold, Your enemies, O Yahweh, For behold, Your enemies shall perish; All the workers of iniquity shall be scattered.

It is better to be chastened (punished) for our sins now because this indicates Yahweh's love for us:

Hebr 12:5 (NKJV) And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons: "My son, do not despise the chastening of Yahweh, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; 6 For whom Yahweh loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives." 7 If you endure chastening, Yahweh deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. 11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

If we are not chastened by Yahweh, then this indicates we are not the children of Yahweh. It is much better to receive punishment for our sins in this life than to receive the punishment for our sins in the lake of fire.

Q. How do i know what i believe is right?

A. If what you believe is right according to Yahweh's word, then this is how you know! If another comes and teaches something contrary to what you believe, examine the word of Yahweh to see if it is true. Timothy became a disciple of Yahushua the Messiah. He had known the scriptures since he was a child:

2Tim 3:14 (NKJV) But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in the Messiah Yahushua

This is what the scriptures are for:

2Tim 3:16 (NKJV) All Scripture [is] given by inspiration of Yahweh, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of Yahweh may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

His word is the ultimate test. An answer I commonly give is "I'm willing to change, just show me from scripture that I am wrong"

"Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with [them] to the same sink of corruption, speaking injuriously [of you];" 1 Pet 4:4 Darby


"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matthew 7:14 NASB

Thanks for posting Rainbow.

Me too......been on a "christian" board for years...had to leave .

Im called a legalist, cult, sect, misled, confused, amoung many other things...

The truth is precious and many dont want it ..no not at all.

We home school, four children, and need fellowship.

Weve been burned, crushed, hurt, betrayed, but NOT forgoten; for YaHWeH remembers HIS!

With this said, i feel its just the begainings of the woes that are to come....

Stand fast Brethren, and let Yahushua lead us to HIS victory.

Barry
fellow bondservant

Thank you both for your comments. At least I know I am not alone! Yes...I too think worse things are yet to come....

Shalom, Rainbow!

I read your posts and I can totally relate to exactly what you are going through. But as you know the world will hate us for Yahshua's Name. Ironic right? I am mocked by family, friends, and people that I try to share the Truth with. Actually my family and I are not talking anymore either. My own dad tried to make me say "merry -----mas" one year for money. I couldn't believe it! I think we all are experiencing this persecution so you're definitely not alone. Fellowship has become so important to me and actually on Facebook I have found some friends. It makes such a difference. If you're on FB let me know and we can "become friends"; just email me all4Yah@gmail.com.

I agree with you that it's really backwards that people don't find all kinds of lusts of the flesh, lies, etc. are not offensive but the Truth is. And saying you've joined a sect...that is one I have not been told directly but I'm sure people are thinking. The funny thing is that the "sacred name" movement is not a sect, it is a movement to restore the Name of Yahweh.

Acts 2:16
“But this is what was spoken by the prophet Yo’ĕl:

Acts 2:17
‘And it shall be in the last days, says Elohim, that I shall pour out of My Spirit on all flesh. And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams,

Acts 2:18
and also on My male servants and on My female servants I shall pour out My Spirit in those days, and they shall prophesy.

Acts 2:19
‘And I shall show wonders in the heaven above and signs in the earth beneath: blood and fire and vapor of smoke.

Acts 2:20
‘The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and splendid day of יהוה.

Acts 2:21
‘And it shall be that everyone who calls on the Name of יהוה shall be saved.’1 Footnote: 1Joel 2:28-32, Rom. 10:13.

So returning to Yahshua's right Name is prophecy being fulfilled and the apostasy happened before most of these denominations even came to exist. Ironic.

Well, you're in good company here and if you are interested in any research I've done, and things I've learned check out www.all4Yah.weebly.com (I only offer not for me but because I believe Yahweh uses all of us to put the pieces of the puzzle together) and you can download a free e bible at tinybible.free.fr. Here is a bible that you can totally customize the settings like the size of the window, font, the color, export, etc. Plus I know the guy who built it so if you have any problems, I can get him to help you ; )

Though we are scattered we will one day live properly all together with huge feasts and daily fellowship with the Master Himself and our whole family!

Peace in Yah!
Amanda Godard

Yeah, but they're out there.

Any of this sound familiar?

3. Only Elbert Spriggs is allowed to give original teaching, and his writings are the final authority within the communities. Elbert Eugene Spriggs has no real accountability. All men must wear their hair in short ponytails with a long, trimmed beard. All women wear long dresses, skirts or “Sus” pants. Women also have long hair. Unity with the “church” is heavily stressed, usually to the point where it becomes the chief doctrine. Unity is considered to be more important than “Doctrine”. (Behavior Control)

8 Emotion control is also practiced within the communities, narrowing a person’s emotional responses. The gray areas of life are slowly eliminated, and everything progressively becomes black and white. This manipulation and narrowing of emotions occurs in three ways. –Bob. Pardon NEIRR
9. The Twelve Tribes Community practices brutal information control. Community members are not permitted to read newspapers, books or listen to the radio. This causes the individual member to become highly dependent on the group.
10. The community claims a special exalted status for itself. “We are the light and the hope of the world. We are the only ones who can reclaim this earth for its Maker. We are the only ones whose lives of love and pure devotion, like a bride for her groom, can bring heaven to earth all other attempts to do so are not merely futile, they are evil..”
11. Members are encouraged (strongly) to break ties with family and friends and society. The Community becomes a replacement family and society.
Restricts the ability to leave the group.
4. Community members must obey the teachings of Spriggs or risk shunning or excommunication. “Everything we hear in the teachings we are required to obey.” (Repentance 4/2/91). “If an elder questioned Spriggs’ teachings he could lose his place of authority. Dissenting elders were also talked about in the apostolic workers Meetings.” Michael Painter, Former Member

5. Every person must submit to the elders who are in submission to the leader (Spriggs). Demand absolute obedience.

6. Inhibits critical thinking so that a “group think” predominates. Followers give up the right to make value judgments of their own. (They cannot reason). Behavior Control

7. There is intense control over community members in the areas of dress, and the regulation of where one lives. “When we are in the Body we have no independent action or movement. AWM 6/12/88) “When God commands us, if we stop to consider the matter to see if there is sufficient reason for us to do it, then we are still living according to the flesh. If the elders say, you need to move to…’ and you say, ‘what is the reason for that? I’m doing fine here, etc., no matter how good you may do in the flesh, you cannot go past that rebellion”

Reasoning 11/I 8/90
http://www.twelvetribes-ex.com/blog/

http://www.cultnews.com/

Hi everyone,
thank you for your comments. Thank you for the invite on facebook as well. I'm not currently on there...I'm uneasy about it and not all that tech savy so to speak...so I'm not sure about it. Wow, being bribed to say Merry x-mas...oh that is so grievious to go through, as you love them and want them to come to the truth. I will pray for your family ...okay I was going to put your title...I think it was all4Yah...I'm still trying to figure out how to use everything here he he!

I think the other poster was yonah1 thank you for more comments on the twelve tribes...I was so wishing it were something good as my husband and I have no physical fellowship, we are meeting people here and keep the Sabbath with all of you here live..that has been a huge blessing...I have a few women I found through a particular group "assembly" and they have been wonderful....I just struggle with some of their teachings as they teach against the tassels. I even tried to gently as the Elder there about their stance, I shared the teaching from here and the response I got almost implied I'm not lead by the spirit if I wear them and if I wear them they should be hidden...and it makes me a "new believer" or wannabe Jew...I was sad and very confused...they said it is not a command it points to the commandments???? but the verse in Numbers says to all their generations??? and to the children of Israel not just "Jews"....
any imput....

I was saddened at the tone of the response I got...basically if I am "convicted" to wear them do it in private by hiding them in an undergarment??? and not to think everyone is to wear them and again the implication was I may be bypassing the spirit.....help

Thank you all for your fellowship....

again I am atleast glad to know I am not alone

Interesting point about the apostacy taking place long before the denominations formed....in Christianity they teach that as some "future" event we are to be watching for?????

This is a good site. http://www.bibletruth.cc/Body_Messianic.htm

also - http://miami.ucg.org/sites/miami.ucg.org/files/sermons/aug-28%20Haeffele%20Bible%20Study%20-%20Tribes.mp3

Thank you moonshadow59 what a beautiful testimony and you have given me so much encouragement, thank you! I guess I always wonder how we obey the not forsaking the gathering together if we are scattered??

I pray Yahweh will bless the works of your hands, and that many will see his light shine through your life...

This might seem a little off topic, but didn't know where to put it. Before the phone cut out on Saturday's broadcast I heard something about storing up food, etc that might wind up being "a waste of time".

We've been hearing about all sorts of strange things occurring that could turn our world upside down pronto. Given where we appear to be in time, our trust ought not to be in material provisions - although I guess a little common sense might not be a bad idea. Only problem is that common sense isn't very common. I've been reading about things that may be coming to a head in the New Madrid Fault Zone of Missouri. The last time there was a major eruption there was 1829 I believe and was so strong it rung church bells in Boston. Should it happen again, FEMA says there will be 7 million instantly homeless people and they are now taking bids for 140 million MRE's and lots of underwater body bags.

I used to go to the truck stop in Hayti, MO.

The question is are those dead birds like the canary in the coal mine?

[img]clip_image002 -[/img]


"........What is the connection between the fault line, the birds, and the Gulf Oil Spill?

There is a bulge on the ocean floor, due to methane gas buildup.

GPS and depth finders have found a bulge in the ocean floor 15-20 miles wide and 10s of feet high.

The methane, and other gases and toxins, as they escape, will poison the atmosphere.

Methane is also flammable.

They went down 22,500 feet to drill…this is 4 miles…the pressure is 100,000 lbs per square inch (psi)…no one can contain this kind of pressure.

Cavitation is occurring."

General report

http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/new-madrid-...

I have a friend, and her son is in the military as well. He was sent to Missouri last month as well. Here is video that explains the "planned exercise" for the Madrid fault line. It will be in May

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3amqxiLJl8&feature=feedlik



Watch and Pray...

My family and I CHOSE to separate from our physical family as none of them followed the ways of Yahweh...We shared the truth with them in which they rejected...we shook the dust...wiped our feet and left town...that was 16 years ago...are we happy? Oh yea.

It is quite remarkable to me that so many groups/individuals have pieces of truth - some of it quite deep - but they seem like they can only go so far in understanding even if they observe Shabbat, Feasts, food laws and acceptance of Messiah. The Divine Names are not on their foreheads - in their place seem to be traces of Babylonianism. (I wonder if that's where baloney came from? - LOL) They seem to be like Lot's wife or are looking for loopholes in YHWH'S Law that affects what they are allowed to discern.

Matthew 7:14 - "But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

My family and I CHOSE to separate from our physical family as none of them followed the ways of Yahweh...We shared the truth with them in which they rejected...we shook the dust...wiped our feet and left town...that was 16 years ago...are we happy? Oh yea.



Hello Tamar Deburg
After reading your above comment, I was a little confused. I am not sure this is the attitude we should have towards those who do not "yet" understand nor accept the ways of Yahweh as I have known Main stream Christians that at first rejected these truths...who now are coming to me sharing that they are accepting his ways...my heart rejoices over this...we must keep shining our lights and pray for these people and our families and friends as they may reject now but may come to the truth later. Maybe I have misunderstood your words I am just concerned new believers may see your post and take on the same attitude with their families. When we come to the truth the first thing we experience is rejection and persecution, but some that rejected and persecuted me Praise Yahweh now have accepted the truth and fellowship with me...my heart is over joyed....my advice to anyone is be patient, pray and continue to quietly live out your faith right where you are...we plant others water but Yahweh will bring the harvest.

many will begin to see truths that others planted years ago...as the tribulation intensifies, we must all be ready to give an answer for the hope we have....we must trim our wicks and put oil in our lamps....

Everyone who runs in a Marathon knows it is the last mile that holds the greatest temptation to give in to the pain, the fears and fatigue...it holds the greatest threat of "giving up"...

Brethren I have been having dreams, and seeing things in scripture as well....this is the last hour we must help one another, we can't give up or grow cold or "luke warm" we must be patient and prayerful if we want to make it to the finish line...not fall away ! We must stay close to Yahweh...our greatest threat on the "home stretch" will be growing cold and not loving towards one another and outsiders!!! Read Matthew 24 and parts of Luke....he warns us a head of time what will take many out of the race....we must endure until the end and keep our hope in Yahweh and our eyes on him and his Son...let's make the last mile our best and hold nothing back...Yahweh did not even withhold his only begotten Son from us...lets give him our best...this is to those who have ears to hear and eyes to see.....lets have feet that run faithfully and hands that work diligently.... many are coming with questions about all the devastation taking place...they are asking WHY....are you able to answer....
Hosea Chapter 4 is a good place to start....
May Yahweh bless us and strengthen us, in Yahushua's name Amen!

Oh we didn't tell our families ONE time about the Truth...we were around them for quite a number of years...But when we realized that their hearts were hardening against Yahweh we understood that it was important to live and let live...we were led by the spirit of Yahweh to leave...we raised our son in the FAITH and to this day He is faithful...we chose to nurture someone who would listen...I am NOT saying this is the direction for everyone...I am saying the spirit led...WE followed...shalom...Yahweh does the calling and HE has a Master plan...YOU cannot convince people to follow....

Rainbow,

Thank you for following up to yourself! The scripture that you posted has been helpful to me. I was befriended by a woman in the church I was going to who then 'reported' on me to the pastor that we do not celebrate christmas.

The pastor called my husband in and because of reasons like not celebrating christmas or their halloween 'harvest festival' where some of the church children dressed as witches and ghosts.... he REFUSED to baptize us!! We would have been baptized the weekend before this happened however the christmas tree was in the baptismal pool and so baptisms had been put off!! And to top it off... The sermon after the pastor spoke with my husband was about how it's okay that we celebrate a pagan holiday with a pagan tree as long as we make it about Jesus and thank Jesus for the presents!! Needless to say, it was the last church service we attended at that church.

Dear Chelly,
We too heard all the "reasons" they could celebrate paganism, this only broke my heart all the more. It is wonderful to see more like you and your husband standing strong, even when it usually means standing alone...that is probably one of the hardest things in our walks with Him. I too feel the "Harvest" parties are just a replacement for Halloween, if they would keep YHWH's Feasts and the propper Sabbath, they would not need or yearn for the things of the world...just my thoughts. For us too, with churches or our families it comes down to weather we celebrate pagan Holidays or not...as to weather they will "fellowship" with us:( I think we are learning about the straight and narrow path...few will find and even fewer will continue on....stay strong and faithful...do not grow weary in well doing:) we are being refined I'd say....I'm so glad the scripture was helpful.

May YHWH strengthen you and guide you!
Shalom,
Rainbow

Hi Rainbow,

What you are saying is sad, but true. And it continues to happen in the "messianic" community too.....including in the past on this website. Man becomes so beholden to religion and is easily blinded. It is sad we become so threatened by trying to truly examine the traditions of man.

Just as you experienced the 'Sunday" sabbath issue, there are those who face the same with the reckonings of the sabbath by the moon and the first light of the day.......The same with sacrifice, the other appointed times, other renditions of the name of YaHWaH, challenging the teachings of Paul, forbidden images and words, etc, etc.

Why do we feel so threatened? I believe it boils down to pride, and having to be right.......or afraid of being wrong/deceived.

May you find the truth, and absolute truth, as you dilligently seek your heavenly father, his word, and obedience to his word.

Sincerely,

Shamayon

Thank you so very much haYasharim,
You said that very well. A lot of times it is possibly out of fear...it feels safe to "KNOW" and when someone presents something different than what we "know" fear sets in and we tend to respond with emotions rather than logic. It makes me sad when some are regarded as leaders and it then puts restraints on open discussions about touchy topics such as Paul, and things like you mentioned...we need to be free in many ways to search diligently...other wise we really just believe what a majority put out. Instead of freedom in many ways I find walls...or defensiveness or the attack of stripping me of the Messiah if I question anything...exploring is part of learning, questions are part of answers, diligence and humilty are part of wisdom and grace...

Thank you for your encouragement I too have been guilty of holding on to the familiar instead of investigating the unknown or unpopular...I am finding walls were made by man to in-prison....Our Messiah has given us freedom...I've noticed how many ran up to him and were free to "ask questions" and they lovingly received answers..seek and ye shall find
Rewards are given to the diligent....

Shalom to you!!

Hi Tamar,

May you continue in strength to put our Father Yahwah and his thorah before all in your life.....even family if need be.

We too, experienced this years ago, also with our adult children. We had to come to a point whether we would even put them before Him. We chose him and have been strengthened by Him in the midst of the choice.

Shamayon & Rabkah

About a week ago,I disabled a couple of personal email websites that I'd been thinking about for some time. It basically came down to the fact that over the years, seed had fallen on rocky soil and that there was just nothing any more to discuss.

It has also been brought to my attention that a certain group of "Hebraics" do not keep the sacred calendar. So how do they know when to keep the Holy Days?

Hi yonah1,

I understand about your seed analogy. Unfortunately, the world has become so entrenched in false traditions that can be difficult (though obviously not impossible) to objectively "see", and break free from.

For understanding where you are coming from on the last part of your message, what do you mean by the "sacred calendar"? Are you referring to the mishnaic/rabbinic/jewish calender as being the "sacred calendar"? Also, what group are you referring to to?

Shamayon

The name is yonah1

As to the group, I'd don't care to give them publicity.

The calendar is the only one I know when the month begins when the first sliver is sighted. But somehow they figured out another way.

Oh, sorry about the typo.....hit the wrong key! Anyway I corrected it above in my previous message.

I did not know if you were referring to how they reckon the 7th day (lunar or solar), the day (beginning at evening/night or morning/day), etc. It is hard to speak to it without seeing their teaching or methodology. If you do not want to give them publicity you can email me personally at haYasharim@yahoo.com so I can see what they are following. Do not worry about me publicizing them as that is not my style.....

Shamayon

I'm actually waiting to receive something from them. If and when I get it I'll let you have a look. I suspect it has to do with the lunar sabbath. I'd forgotten about that possible link.

Thanks.

Reckoning the seventh day and the week by the moon, as well as commencing the day with morning are both scriptural.......whereas the rabbinic/jewish reckoning of the weeks and the start of the day are both false, non-scriptural traditions of man.

Shamayon

Yonah1 --

I do not want to sound judgemental, for I believe that you had only the best of intentions, but I was a little disturbed about a response you posted awhile back, where you basically made a group out to be a cult. You used as a source, a man who would call ALL Sacred Namers cultists.

This man backed an alleged pedophile in a custody case where the father had been outted by the group, and in anger and rebellion, said that he was going to destroy the group. Partly because of the Cult Deprogrammer, that you referenced, and his testimony, the father, the alledged pedophile, got custody of the children.

Since then, the father was CONVICTED of sexual crimes against a minor, the children were put into foster care, until he was released from jail and shot by his own mother who told authorities it was because he seemed only to want to cause pain to others. The children then were returned to the custody of the mother who remained with the group.


Their legal counsel is a lawyer who ended up marrying one of the men of the group. Not the typical person to get sucked up by a cult.


But back to this source you are depending upon to call them a cult. He is afraid of people like you & I, and the people who come to this site, and so ignored the group's accusations of the man being a pedophile, because he is more afraid of abnormal religious groups, than he is of possible pedophiles? That is extremely disturbing.


The practices of this deprogrammer and cult expert have not been backed by other reputable sources. I'm shocked actually that someone at this site would reference his groups findings, as if he was a righteous judge of truth? I'm assuming, and that is why I said that I do not want to come across as being judgemental, that you were simply not aware of any of this. I am sure that you meant simply to warn people here that there are probably groups out there that are cults. But I would be far more convinced if you used as evidence of their being so far in the wrong, scripture, than the rantings of some man/organization out to violate the rights of people's freedom to practice their religious beliefs however they think is right.


I've looked into that group that you seem to think is such a dangerous cult, The Twelve Tribes, and I'd be willing to bet that they are not dangerous at all. Have you ever visited them or met any of them, talked with any of them? The testimonies of the members of this group seem to show that they are happy there, and they also speak of those of their group who have left. So apparently people are free to leave the group if they so choose. Is leaving tough? YES. They made the choice to give up all of their possessions when they joined the group, following after the example of the Apostles and early ekklesia. No one forced them to join the group, so now they have no possessions to go back to? Sure its difficult to go back to a life you DIED TO, that you gave up, that you left to live another completely different life. That does not mean its a cult.

You mentioned their unity of dress as a bad thing? What is wrong with unity? Show me the scripture verses that condemn this unity? Conformity is bad? Please show me the scripture verses condemning those who live in conformity?


I just don't understand what your beef is with this group? They restrict members access to THE THINGS OF THE WORLD, like tv, newspapers, internet?! Really, can you show me where in scripture it is shown to be a sin for a person to voluntarily give up worldly things that are basically so tainted by the world, that it is almost impossible to watch tv, or read a newspaper or surf the internet, without being exposed to HaShatan's attempts to tempt us into sin?!


They do have a phone number, so apparently they have a phone. They have a website and an email address, so again, apparently they do not think the internet in of itself is a completely and totally evil entity.

I think that it would be refreshing to live among a body of believers who live like they do.


Maybe ever single little nuance of their doctrine or practice is not exactly similar to mine, or yours, but how much unity of doctrine is there just on this site?! There is so much disunity among Messianics. Condemnation of others, labeling others as cults, is this the answer? We are all hopefully seekers of the truth, are we not? That group has been around since the 70's and the time of the Jesus People Movement. They did not immediately break off from the mainstream churches, the churches pushed them out. They strive to live as the original Apostles lived, and have since progressed to the point of calling on the name of the Father as Yahweh and the Son as Yahshua. They eat healthy, and I'd have to ask, but possibly kosher diets. They dress modestly, is that a sin? They honor the 7th day Sabbath as well. If they are off here and there on their doctrines, is it not possible that they will find the truth about those issues?! Do you hold the exact same doctrines and beliefs as you did 5 years ago, 10, 15, 20? Do you know all right now? Are your beliefs as of this moment, perfect and complete and flawless?! Instead of calling them a cult, wouldn't it be better to reach out to them in love?

Why would we want to smear fellow Messianic believers?



I'm not saying you had evil intent, not at all, and hey, I could be the one missing some big piece of the puzzle here about this group, it was mostly your using that hateful group as a source that got under my skin, but you have to realize that unless you came out from among that group, where are you getting your info that they are a cult?! From a legitimate, scripturally based, Messianic, Sacred Name, Torah observant source?! If not, then you might want to be careful about believing what you hear from the media or cult watch groups.


If the members of that group are a part of the Body of The Messiah, than you would be hurting your own Body by hurting them. Now there are some things that you pointed out, that could be issues to be concerned with, I'm not saying otherwise, I am genuinely interested in that group, and so would desire scriptural backing vs mans opinions.

I pray that I did not offend you with this post, or that you do not take this as an attack. I do not mean it as such. I made the effort to investigate that cult watch group that you referenced, and they are not righteous. Their purposes, their goals, are evil. It may appear that they have good intentions, but their target is unorthodox religious groups, so even if they are attacking legitimate cults, they also want to attack true believers as well and will use the existence of cults as an excuse to attack us, too.

Well Boomshagalagaboom!

Yonah1 --

Hey, brother, if I was wrong, please set me straight. If I crossed the line, I am sorry. I want to be in the right, in what I teach, in my relationship with the Body, with another brother and would like to know what you think about what I wrote. I notice you quoted some of my post, but am not understanding what message you are trying to send, to me or to others? I am not perfect and can make mistakes, so like I said, if you do not agree with what I said, I want to know, so that we can reason together about this. I consider the twelve tribes group to be harmless and possibly a part of the Body of Messiah, if I am wrong about them, I want to know! If you felt I was judging you, I wasn't meaning to. Any feelings I may have of judgement towards anyone, might be that Cult watch group, if anyone. Is that wrong to feel judgemental of them, if they are persecuting people of similar religious beliefs as you and I? If I am wrong, then please, set me straight!

Sincerely Anewman

Blessings! I do not pretend to know everything as our family is new to the Torah and Feasts; however my understanding is this: Numbers 15:37-41 (Tanakh)YHWH said to Mosheh as follows: Speak to the Israelite people and instruct them to make for themselves fringes on the corners of their garments throughout the ages; let them attach a cord of blue to the fringe at each corner. That shall be your fringe; look at it and recall all the commandments of YHWH and observe them, so that you do not follow your heart and eyes in your lustful urge. Thus you shall be reminded to observe all My commandments and to be holy to your Elohim. I, YHWH am your G-, who brought you out of the land of Egypt to be your G-d; I, YHWH your G-d.

The purpose is to be able to see them, recall His commands, so that we are kept safe from the urges of the flesh.

On a larger scale YHWH's people were chosen to be the priesthood of mankind and to share His word (miltha) with all of us that we might be saved. The tzittzit are to be seen so that the wearer might even look set apart (we are a peculiar people) and cause a little curiousity.

Please anyone clariry or correct my words if I am misled. Blessings and Shalom to my brothers and sisters!

In considering ways that the adversary might use to drive a wedge between believers two stand out< One is total confusion of the Divine Names and the second would be confusion regarding the Sabbath< Seems he's scored big hits in both< After having spent what amounts to 20 year war regarding the issue of Yahweh's name, it strikes me that as one Jewish person explained as their rationale for not uttering Yahweh's name out loud, was that it was so pagans could not misuse it, was that this misguided logic was causing people to worship demons< In the case of the "lunar sabbath" it strikes a similar chord of confusion having the same result< In addition to Eliyah's exhaustive treatise (http://www.eliyah.com/lunarsabbath.html) on the subject, one thought keeps recurring in my mind, to wit, if one is going to determine the Sabbath by sighting the new moon, how would one determine the Sabbath if there had been cloud cover for say a week to ten days< Just assign an arbitrary day for the first day of that month which of course would throw the whole rest of the year off< Just doesn't fly and fractures the body< But we were warned that there would be heresies and false teachers and that even the very elect might be deceived< http://www.clearbibleanswers.org/the-challenge.html?start=2, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/message/6805