Shalom Wellers, the Boussums here, we are searching for the very same thing. In our search we found a community that seemed awesome at 1st but, as time moved on we noticed, they didn't wear tzittzit all the time, only on shabbat and high holy days. We had to stand at attention when the leader was seen or entered our presence, even the children had to stop playing and stand for him. My understanding is we are not to call any man our leader, rabbi, teacher, only One is our Teacher, Rabbi, and Leader and that is our Messiah YAHSHUA, and all the rest of us are equal.
To start a community or join one, you need to know what questions to ask, even the adversary knows the scriptures inside and out.
1st question, are they practicing what they preach? Like wearing the tzit tzit, not having any graven image (ceramic, stone, wood metal any carved shape even of snow or ice). I once knew a woman who actually worshiped her 5 vehicles, she even clamed they talked to her.
I even met a family that are well known for their Torah portions but, their children have dragon toys, T-shirts, all kinds of superhero toys and clothes. But the worst of the toys are avatar, and toy weapons of all kinds, I was sooo surprised.
Is there something wrong with me, or did I read and remember, the snowman, the Hanukkah bush, Hanukkah wreath, the lights some people put on their trees at that time of year, and claim 'Its only to light the drive way.' It's all pagan.
I thought it would be simple. Rite... We all need to put YHVH 1st, have patience, He has the plan for us all. We need to slow down. I almost made some very big mistakes chasing my own heart.
I can't wait to see my neighbor to love my neighbor as myself... I love my neighbor now and I haven't even met.
I can't wait to live free, to worship YHVH at the feasts, to learn to sing the proper songs and dance around the camp fire!!!
Shalom, may YHVH bless you with a amish style Messianic Community Farm! One that keeps the 7th day sabbath, no pagan under or overtones.
Tamara

I (Shamayon) remember seeing this same question posted some time ago on this forum. I have hesitated to respond as it seems that there are so many different views these days as to what it should look like for “believers” to live in close proximity of one another, sharing life in a “community” setting.....but from our view point much of what we see these days in believers is so different to what it would have been like to live in close proximity of father Abraham…..the man who is the earthly father of the covenant we are to live by as the Yasharim of Yasharal (“Israel”).

To us, what it looks like to live together in close proximity to one another from a thorah perspective is much more important than the concept of simply living together in community for the sake of fellowship.

That being said, there is an opportunity where we are to live and experience the vital, thorah-centered, agrarian life as Father Yahwah has called us to live.....in the midst of other nations and their “worldly” cultures, yet distinctly free of their defiling way of life. A life free of forbidden images of that with the breath of life in it. A life free of harmful and unclean things that damage our bodies. A life free of words derived from the names of mighty ones other than the all-mighty Yahwah. A life free of celebrations rooted in pagan traditions. A life free of the teachings of the pastors, rabbis, shamans, priests, and other spiritual leaders of the false traditions of the religions of man, and focused on the thorah-centered commandments, statutes and judgements of Yahwah. A life free of the bondage of sin/lawlessness (thorahlessness).

More yet, a life centered upon the seventh day Shabath as reckoned by the moon and the first light of the day. A life centered upon life-giving, undefiled and pure organic food. A life centered upon the beauty of animal sacrifice by undefiled hearts and hands. A life centered upon being clothed in clothing made from non-mixed natural fibers. A life centered upon the Creator-centered agrarian life. In short, a life full of the life-giving vitality of the ancient paths where there is rest for our souls.

If this is what one is looking for we have a place in Central America where there are Yasharim who focus on living and growing in the unadulterated thorah-centered life and looking forward to the eventual true restoration of the covenanted children of Abraham to the land of Yasharal. Here we embrace the agrarian life, raising organic crops, beef, lamb, and goat.....free of the contamination of the corrupted world. Free of the bondage of the ways of fallen man and his governments.....and full of life and the provision of the eternal Father.

Are we “different”? ....Yes. And thankful for it.

If this is what you are seeking then please feel free to contact us at haYasharim@yahoo.com

Sincerely,

Shamayon and Rabkah

I'm new on this forum but have spent most of my teen years and early adulthood ministering to youth, I realize this system is corrupt, as a student of history I'd say the most corrupt this world has seen (or very close) but I find it hard to place myself in a setting where Messiah didn't, personally I'd like to be a hermit or a monk or something, but Messiah walked the streets of corrupt cities, ministered in the midst of a corrupt (albeit religious) system, and am I to vacate to some remote location?

Hello, I just thought that I would add my thoughts about this idea of living together in a commune style community of like minded believers.

I think that there are two kinds of this type of community, the one that believes the world is completely evil and who simply want to live apart from it, and those who believe the world is evil, want to live healthy, righteous lives, being able to raise up their children in an environment sheltered from pagan worldly influences, where they can fellowship together, BUT, who also believe in going out into the world in one way or another, to reach out to this dying world, to evangalize, teach, etc..

I've heard of a few different groups that live this way, including The Twelve Tribes, and I guess my question would then be, after reading the descriptions of what the different posters here envision as the place they'd want to live, is how perfect does this place have to be?

I mean, if I find a group of loving basically torah observant people, but they do this one thing differently than I believe, should I then continue to live, all alone in the paganized satan led world? Is that the better option? Should I wait until the PERFECT community arises? Can there be such a thing? Messianic groups can't seem to agree about anything, even the names of the Father and the Son? I believe their names to be Yahweh and Yahushua. So shall I avoid a group that does not pronounce the oo sound of the Messiah's name? Another believer came in here speaking of a community located in South America, and everything he said sounded so perfect, but I noticed that he mentioned observing the 7th day Sabbath according to the new moon. This is not scriptural. So that group is out, right?

I am just frustrated, and feel all alone in the world and have no Messianic community anywhere near where I live. I just bought a house and live there all by myself, but I'd be willing to leave the house behind, and the bonds of slavery that owning a home, brings with it, seeing as I'll have mortgage payments to make for years to come, then taxes and insurance after that, IF I could find somewhere else to live where I could enjoy fellowship and a safe environment to live, and raise children if I choose to marry and start a family?

So how strict should a person be when the way things seem to be today, their only other choice is to remain living alone in a godless, lawless, pagan loving world lorded over by HaShatan himself?

Hi A Newman,

It was Central America, not South America.....just to let you know, but it is not a big deal.......smile.

You mention that reckoning the 7th day shabath by the lunar reckoning is not scriptural. What do you base that statement on? Can you show scripturally (not traditionally) how you determine what day is the 7th day of the week on the current solar or Hillel (modern jewish) calendar......tracing it back scripturally (not traditionally) from creation week?

Actually, reckoning the 7th day according to the moon is the only scriptural method, of which is not based upon a reckoning that is solely based upon a false solar tradition.

The same is true with reckoning the day as beginning with the first light of the day, and ending with the last light of the day......starting the day with evening or night is purely non-scriptural, and only based upon false tradition.

Sincerely,

Shamayon

quote from seedofabraham.net/SabbathLunar.html

begin quote

"There are some people today who believe that the Sabbath should be tied into the sighting of the new moon with the four quarters of the moon’s phases being Sabbaths. This means that the Sabbath would be the 7th, 14th, 21st and 28th of the lunar month and could fall on any day of the week (i.e. Monday, Tuesday, etc).

The reasons why a lunar Sabbath is not biblical are many. One reason has to do with the Sabbath of Creation and another has to do with how God gave the Sabbath to Israel. Passover and First Sheaf will also reveal that the teaching of a lunar Sabbath is not possible, while Nehemiah and Messiah, etc., will also show that it’s not biblical.



THE SABBATH OF CREATION

The Sabbath appears in Creation week on the seventh day. The Moon was created on the fourth day. There’s only three days from the creation of the moon till the creation of the Sabbath, not seven as the lunar concept calls for. Perhaps the Sabbath should have come on the 11th day? Someone might say,

‘Well, this is Creation, just the beginning but after that the Sabbath will always be seven days after the new moon.’

Without any clear, written indication in Scripture, they’re arguing from silence and against Scripture, which states it’s every seventh day irrespective of the moon (Gen. 2:3; Ex. 20:8-11).
... ... .............. "


end quote

Doesn't Genesis say, "and the evening and the morning, were the 1st day" Gen 1:5b

That is the scripture I've seen pointing to the day beginning at sunset, and nowhere in the gospels or Acts or in any of the Apostles writings do we find anyone saying anything against this practice, in fact, we seem to see Yahushua himself and the Apostles recognizing this practice, going along with it even. Yahushua was NOT afraid of going against the Pharisees man made sabbath rules, so if they were wrong in the way they rendered a week, or the beginning of each day, Yahushua would have surely pointed such a thing out, don't you think?

I am new to this forum and I see that we have strayed from the topic. However if I may I would like to add my 2 cents and a ton of gold (the scriptures) concerning this Lunar Sabbath doctrine. I wanted to share this verse from Nehemiah 13

And it came to pass, that when the gates of Jerusalem began to be dark before the sabbath, I commanded that the gates should be shut, and charged that they should not be opened till after the sabbath: and [some] of my servants set I at the gates, [that] there should no burden be brought in on the sabbath day. Nehemiah 13:19

The hebrew word for "began to be dark" is tsalal and it means to shadow or dusk. Clearly Nehemiah recognized that the Sabbath Day began at dusk not dawn which is why he ordered the gates of YeruShalom to be shut so the merchants could not get in.

The languages of Earth affirm the universality of the 7-day week, and 108 of them have based their name for the 7th day on the original Hebrew word:

Ancient Syriac: shabatho, Babylonian: sabatu, Arabic: assabt, Etheopic: sanbat, Armenian: shapat, Polynesian: hari sabtu, Swahili: assabt, Latin: Sabbatum, Italian: Sabbato, Spanish: Sabado, Russian: Subbota, Polish: Sobota, Assyrian: Sabata, Tigre: Sanbat, Kurdish: Shamba, Georgian: Shabati, Morduin: Subbota, Portuguese: Sabbado, New Slovenian: Sobota, Prussian: Sabatico.

My final point is, if the Lunar Sabbath is correct why would HaShatan and his Bride (The Roman Catholic Church) go to such great lengths to promote Sunday as an alternative day rather than the 7th Day of the week?

Shalom

Brother Jason

Beware of the "Lunar Sabbath" ". ....This study is written to help equip the body of Messiah with a scriptural basis of keeping the Sabbath on the 7th day of every week, and to establish why any deviance from that is unscriptural. ....I hosted a discussion on this topic in a private forum for almost 4 years in which there were over 5500 contributions by people promoting and disagreeing with the Lunar Sabbath Doctrine...." http://www.eliyah.comlunarsabbath.html Might this discussion be relocated to a new topic ?

Hello all,

This subject is not totally "off topic" as my post about living in community mentioned the reckoning of the Shabath. Also, it is assumed that a hebrew or "messianic" community would have the keeping of the 7th day shabath as a centerpiece of its existence.......therefore the current direction of this discussion is not "off topic", as it is pertinent to the subject at hand.

Also, if a conversation is moving in a certain way, why should we try to stifle open and truth-seeking conversation?

I will be addressing the mis-teaching of Eliyah's Beware of the "Lunar Sabbath" , as well as some scriptural only addressing on this important subject that deals with the very identity of Yasharal (Israel)......just as soon as I am able.

Sincerely,

Shamayon

thats a pretty interesting idea.. i think given the direction this world is headed people will have to choose between the system and or coming out of the system. I spend most of my time thinking of how to go completely off grid a working farm where everyone could contribute is a good idea.. its gonna come down to coming out of this system inevitably anyways....

This is a thread about forming a Messianic community < By suggesting that debate involving determining the Sabbath to it's own thread, is in no way an attempt to restrict free speech, but only a suggestion so as to not co mingle the two, especially being new and essentially diverting the flow from it's stated intent < There are obviously other issues that those interested in such an arrangement might want to do likewise, rather than announce an intent to publically challenge the opinion of the forum owner with an agenda <

Hi,

You know as Yasharal (Israel) returns to the "non-grid" agrarian lifestyle, as ordained originally by our Creator, we will better understand the simplicity and awesomeness of his design. I believe that this a part of the "being in the world, but not of it"......

Shamayon

This is a thread about forming a Messianic community < By suggesting that debate involving determining the Sabbath to it's own thread, is in no way an attempt to restrict free speech, but only a suggestion so as to not co mingle the two, especially being new and essentially diverting the flow from it's stated intent < There are obviously other issues that those interested in such an arrangement might want to do likewise, rather than announce an intent to publically challenge the opinion of the forum owner with an agenda < [/quote]

Hi Yonah1,

Again, how a messianic community reckons the Shabath may be very important to some of us when considering this subject.....unfortunately, there is a lot of tradition out there that steers away from the truth, but little breaking away from that in a practical sense.

You are the one who brought up the issue of the opinion of the forum owner to apparently discount what what being presented as a legitimate and important part of the thread. I said what I said to present the fact that there is another opinion other than what you referenced. If the forum owner does not want me to discuss an issue as important as the proper, scriptural reckoning of the Shabath, then I will honor that and post elsewhere where open searching of the truth is not stifled.

Sincerely,

Shamayon

quote "thats a pretty interesting idea.. i think given the direction this world is headed people will have to choose between the system and or coming out of the system. I spend most of my time thinking of how to go completely off grid a working farm where everyone could contribute is a good idea.. its gonna come down to coming out of this system inevitably anyways...."
end quote

In tulsa, so far(since 1991), it has been impossible to find someone else, anyone else, who wants to live YHWH'S WAY, YHWH'S LIFE,
on or off grid.
Not one of the chruches, nor anyone I've met in any of the chruches, is willing to, nor interested in, living according to SCRIPTURE !!!
Some 'independents' say they are,
but cling on to some earthly things(possessions, or income, or savings/retirement/401k/stocks) that they aren't willing to give up/share in common as needed,
so they fail.
They fall short.
They don't even start to 'endure to the end'.... don't even think for a moment that ABBA is pleased or will tolerate them in His Kingdom.