We have been coming here just about 2 years. Have met a few we do hope are genuine people.
Been Torah loving people for a long time, with out fellowship out side of our family. What we are trying to determine is do people who claim to live Torah, Behave differently from well any other sector of people. This is not a question to answer here.
No matter how right or wrong some choose to think of another, based on Yah only knows what? We tend to watch things. Like passive-aggressive tendencies. How are the poor treated? Is it to be a shaming act to need help? Do people welcome others lovingly, or is that conditional, based on what? How readily are differences of any kind shredded?
Are things said in private kept in private? Would most people ask before sharing another's business? Is the embarrassment level important to many? How many have you sat with for hours sometimes on end, willingly giving them a safe dumping ground; to discover that the very same ones would be hard found to to listen to you for even 10 minutes, in how much time? Not that one should give ever expecting anything in return...
There are believers who need help, sadly there are not helpers. What does that say of a community, any community? No it is not limited by any known race, religion, denomination, or social gathering. Does it matter how long a regular at a services? No, apparently not. Here is the kicker to the punch line.. Those who feel "feel" physical needs of others do not matter, most likely have not lived with out, or not for very long.
We actually did go and read the family in Israel story plight. What seemed peculiar, The person submitting the story/plight, seemed to feel the need to share this was not something the family could have planned for. As if it is a criminal offense to have needs!
What I can assure you is if your poor, disabled, your widows, orphans, your fatherless are going without needs being met, how loving is that indeed! Do they go to the feasts? I would venture to say most would not. Not because they do not believe. Walk in their shoes and ask yourself if you would?

Funny thing is now that we finally signed back up for the forum.. Better not finish the rest of the statement. As long as we all know we look just right follow everything we are told to we are worthy then right? By who's standards? Will YHWH respond the same way? How long does the we are too blind to see line hold up? Some , at the very least own their own homes, some even work for themselves, some can not afford to give to the alms fund, however YHWH knows if they give of themselves to others or not.
No no, writing this does not make me feel even slightly better. We wrote of many other topics in the forum thankfully, they did not post. Fellowship is such a funny word. Especially when you know very well that those you would fellowship with, may act nice when they want to and when they think they can harm you they might do that to? Sounds like a very much so of the world concept doesn't it? If alms is suppose to be a way of giving lovingly with out people knowing which hand does what, Should not those receiving also be allotted the same courtesy? Having need and sharing a need, is not enough, that I promise you.

I don't know how much or not I am loving as I can; even though I chose a long time ago not to withhold anything from any fellow man who needs it or asks for it - nothing is mine own, I believe to share all things in common, BUT there's no one else likewise in Yahweh's 'abandonment' as I see it...
so I see a lot of people LACKING what they need,
and not knowing what to do,
and even not knowing that they are lacking what they need,
because they [may have] turned to trust the government or some group for something else instead...

and the worst is when and where people trust someone instead of Abba Elohim to teach them the truth and also they do not test either the spirits and also do not test the words others give them (they swallow a camel, and choke on a gnat=truth)

share everything in common.... so simple, yet where is anyone obeying ?

this really is not for argument, if someone thinks not to share everything, so? that is okay for them to do, or at least not for me to tell them they're wrong yet; only my children under my care did learn to share as Yahweh's Word says to.
(yet one of them is being tested severely now to abandon trust in Yahweh for worldly supports)....

are there 2 or 3 families, or even individuals, in the you ess aya, laying down their lives for one another daily for the Gospels Sake ?

Dear yeshuaslave,
We seem to live in a time, where many on the walk believe it is the Governments job to care for the people. Sadly this is a horrible trap for so many.
How odd that so many of the very same people who would dismiss a fellow believer in need; would in other debates feel joining the military would be a bad thing. This is not in any way meant to break down the people, far from it in fact!

yeshuaslave, [[[hugs lovingly]]] If we can help in any way to persuade your children of right walking not being a pretty walk always ..let us know please, and we mean that! There is a delusion of sorts even over the eyes of many believing homes, an "if you loved me, I would have"..XXXXXXX!

life is hard, and for some very hard! In widowhood, experienced "loving people" sharing with our children the benefits of leaving their family. Nicer opportunities, "just say your family is bad". If our children knew or not, these find folks stood to gain by sharing this with less prosperous children.

Twhat some may not know to tell their children, is some people like to pretend to care and gain the confidence of a child. By doing so can hope to wedge between the parental bond. Sadly i have seen this done by many who enjoyed the added income to their home covering their mortgage through the low slumps. Some have even afforded new vehicle payments by simply destroying families.

I refer to this as destroying families because these are "in fact", awesome kids that are coveted! These awesome children then are called children in need of services; instead of the coveter's being called destroyers and leaches slumming off the back of the poor and widowed. Last I knew the going rate for such deception was $1,500 a month in the pocket of the coveter. Those who do such acts may be able to very effectively destroy families even very wonderful families with not the resources to fight. I am certain YHWH has a very special plan set for those who profit on the destruction of His children.


Sorry, We have seen some horrible things done. many of which have been by the upstanding community of some considered above reproach, Amazing how much power some seem to access by belonging to the right secret society or other.

Kind of lost on some of the wording, so hopefully a clarification?

"I don't know how much or not I am loving as I can; even though I chose a long time ago not to withhold anything from any fellow man who needs it or asks for it - nothing is mine own, I believe to share all things in common, BUT there's no one else likewise in Yahweh's 'abandonment' as I see it..."

I don't know how the quote functions work in these forums and I wont pretend to know. None the less I am way lost on the wording of the quote above? the Yahweh's abandonment statement. Can you please clarify what that is suppose to mean? Since when would a person ever presume that living very poor means that YHWH abandons anyone? Everything any of us has belongs to YHWH, and not in fact to any at all.

I hope this isn't off topic but I have been pondering somethings lately. Like love, and being "in love". This is most likely because of recent developments in our life. There have been things in the poetry corner that are about being in love, in love with Messiah, I have heard songs about it. But I'm not necessarily talking about that being in love, but being in love with your spouse. This will be long and rambling btw.

I started reading the book the 5 Love Languages. I think I will learn from the book but not because I am going to agree with the author. But having his writing gives my ideas, feelings, and understandings something to "bounce off of", I guess sorta what I'm doing in this post.

I do not like how the author talks about "falling in love" and what it is and what it isn't. Basically almost describing it as a time of deception and "unrealistic feelings/expectations". Like after about 2 years you see "all the warts" and come back down to earth i.e. "reality". There's all this petty this and that, you know all the day to day things to bicker about. When I fell in love with Adrian was it euphoric ABSOLUTELY. Being with him caused reactions emotionally and physically that I had never had with other guys. Sometimes we'd rent movies and not even watch them but just lay in bed holding each other. Not even saying anything. I can remember him laying behind me and taking long deep breaths because he loved the way my hairspray and perfume smelled. We'd fall asleep together sometimes and it's true that even after he left I'd still feel him there beside me. Did being in love make us behave irrationally, foolishly yes I guess you could say it did. But to say that falling in love is some euphoric deception that tricks us into signing the dotted line into a life of unrealistic expectations is unfair to falling in love. The book says after the 2 years of the euphoric falling in love "phase" that we realize that her behavior patterns are annoying and he can get mad or mean sometimes. In my experience, and this was only something I learned recently, is that while we may "gloss over" flaws of the one we have fallen in love with in the beginning, that in time we can fall in love with that same person because of these flaws. Why? Did I think I'd fallen out of love with A at times over the years? Yes, I'd be lying if I said I didn't question the state of our relationship often. But this wasn't because I had fallen out of love with him or even that I didn't love him anymore. Not at all. My intense love and passion for him is what fueled the pain, emptiness, and loneliness I felt. What happened was I let people and things around me define for me what was being "in love" and what it was like and what it is supposed to be like. But the truth is that I love Adrian period. And I'm in love with him, and his warts. Those little annoyances, those little pet peeves, those little irritations are just part of what makes him unique, and special. And what I have craved for the longest time was to understand him on those levels also. It wasn't about this needs to change or that needs to change or I have changed/you have changed, our love has changed, our marriage has changed blah blah blah. It was I love you so much, and I am so in love with you, that I need to be connected and share and be intimate with you on more levels. This includes our flaws. So what am I basing this on??? Am I some kind of relationship expert all of a sudden, no I still have no college degree, BUT if I ask myself to honestly answer: would I miss the things about A that are annoying, irritating, or hurtful if he were not in my life anymore I have to say yes. I would miss the way he unfolds all his socks and scatters them looking for just the right pair and I have to fold them and put them back. I would miss him saying that I don't put the toilet paper on the thing right. I would miss the mess he makes when he cooks that I clean up, I would miss doing his laundry, I would miss making his breakfast or lunch. I would miss being his wife and EVERYTHING that it entails. I have always been in love with A, but we both compared our marriage to others and asked what is being in love? What does it feel like? What does it act like? What does it look like? Every day I am in euphoric mad love with my husband. Why? Because I can, because we're still breathing. Does it make us act foolish and gloss over each others flaws??? Yes, sometimes, and I say SO? It's not falling in love in some "unrealistic expectation way" but it's falling in love in some unconditional way. Maybe I don't get my feelings hurt when he says I put the toilet paper on the wrong direction. Maybe I don't point out that he unfolded all the socks and made an even bigger mess of his sock drawer which I folded and made a little neater for him. Maybe he doesn't lose his temper if I happen to. Maybe he doesn't say something hurtful back when I do (I am getting teary eyed). This isn't some kind of "post 2 year euphoric psychological "in love sensation"!!!!!! Meaning we have moved on from the "in love" part to the "real love" part of our relationship. This is being more in love than ever. This is head over heels in love. This is being in love with everything about you, your flaws make me smile because they remind me of so much about you.

I have had what I call "ground hog days" (like the movie). Days I could live over and over and over again. The first time A took me to see the sun set over the water was a day I could've died so at peace. It was just a simple day. When he took me the second time it's the same thing. A day that if that was my last day to live I can't imagine it better. I am crying. But with all those days, if I had to choose between not being with A at all, and reliving some of the worse days, I would still rather have him in my life. I would say that with me and A being in love isn't like some psychological euphoric state that wears off and then reality sets in. It's realizing the reality that being in love doesn't have to be that way!!! You can be in euphoric love with that person's reality. And you can see the warts up close and personal and still gloss over them because of your intense state of being "in love". It's not a state of denial, it's not a state of not wanting to see and admit or confront the other person's flaws. But it's a state of acceptance and commitment and I call it being in love. Not some post-time period thing that wears off. Being "in love" grows if you recognize it and take care of it. For so long I thought we had fallen out of love or things had changed. And things had changed but I had not fallen out of love. I had fallen deeper in love but didn't recognize it for what it was. I had fallen deeper in love and in more ways and on new levels that I didn't comprehend, know how to express or reciprocate, or even how to receive at times. Just like when we had that sun set picnic on the piece of cardboard...that made it even MORE ROMANTIC. Because it was not predictable, it was unexpected, different, not rehearsed or staged. It was simple, and even humorous. It made it more memorable, more a "Renae and Adrian" type moment. That piece of cardboard is like our flaws. Would I say we should've had a blanket? NO! I'm glad all we had was cardboard. The sugar isn't found in some perfectly planned down to the detail romantic rendezvous as suggested by some magazine. The sugar is the cardboard. And the cardboard is there and available everyday. Just what seems an ordinary day can be extraordinarily ordinary. Oh the irony. Thank you YHWH for all the ingredients of the lemonade.

I was pondering verses such as: Mat 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

How is it that we are blessed when we mourn, how are we comforted? With peace that is beyond human understanding? This to me describes feelings I have at times, I call being happy in a melancholy way. Recently I thought if this feeling could be seen in a description it would look like this: A blue smiley. It is at this time when I am most vulnerable to be tempted to despair. I think you could say being happy in a melancholy way is an oxymoron, but does that change anything about it? I don't know. But I think it's okay to feel that way sometimes.

Shalom,
Renae

Wife response:
I have read that book. More as a way of understanding how others might relate the understanding of love. For example, some people equate love to remembering gifts. some to making a special food, etc. This became apparent, living very poor and having some children say, "well you don't love me". Statements that can just floor a parent that has struggled like crazy to provide for a child in every way possible. Their peers would get gifts, some would have even their own rooms or 2 bedrooms.
Hard for a home struggling to even keep a roof.
Hugs, prayers, caring for needs, did not = how they thought love was suppose to be; in this world we live in.
Then of course, being Torah observers, and believers in Messiah, made fellowship nill to none. There were no others to re-affirm faith issues to our children. Often what happens then is your children say well that is just your idea.
Some thought that if we loved them we would have given them more material items.
my husband and I were both married prior to others. both of us were widowed. Both of us knew of raising children alone, with no outside support. both of us having been orphaned as children also.

My dear husband had already raised one family. been injured and thrown away. He no longer had a way to hand money to the adult children so to them was sadly of no use. Then of course he still thought they would be at least happy that he had found a mate, after being a widow for 6 plus years and never even considering dating. So there he went announcing his joy of having a mate again, not only that but raising more children, and of course that he had learned of Scriptural truths so would be converting. Little did he realize the adult children would no longer want him.
When we first saw each other... we knew. something was very different. In less than 15 minutes. Day 1: we discussed everything from Scriptural beliefs, marriage, birthing children, etc.
For 3 days we did not see each other, He could not sleep. [YHWH is wonderful, isn't He}! After those 3 days he gave me a letter saying to get over my strange ideas of G_d and get the kids in public school or he would not be able to see me.
I told him he was right, because I could not marry a man if they were not a believer. I could not give up my faith.
He converted.
We married.
The process of conversion, is just that, a process. YHWH is The great Teacher. I watched his convictions grow from one day to the next. Actually more like a miracle than many might ever know. My job was to simply hold fast to my faith, and allow YHWH to do the work.
Even clear down to how YHWH convicted him of Kosher is more than most would ever believe. I know some people think it is "our job" to convert. YHWH knew exactly just what to do when..... as for kosher...My beloved man can not even stand the odor of un-kosher cooking from a business or a neighbor. The actual smell will make him sick. There would have been no harping in the world I could have done to cause that. In other words, I didn't.
On the same token, I also do not have a mate who is only kosher around me. Nor has he ever blamed me for any of his conversion. That being solely Between him and YHWH.
Our life is far from easy. We do have love. Most of all we do have YHWH.
I have asked my beloved husband, if he had it all to do again, knowing how hard we live, knowing the adult children would turned so full of hate to him for becoming a child of YHWH... funny .. he doesn't even bat an eye. Says Yes!
What he did was married was to be a man already broken, by the world, marrying a woman already broken by the world, who had already been walking Torah for a very long time. He became a daddy again, not only to the little ones I was raising alone, but to father again.
He became the Leader of our home in all matters under YHWH's headship. I suppose if I was ever to say of a person walking in this day and age of who I would admire the most. It would on a hands down be my dear husband.
By the way, he married a woman that can barely get around to doing the simplest of tasks that most people take as common. I had really nothing to offer him but love, honesty, faith, children, devotion.
Love is a funny word, of how some take it isn't it?
If any feel lead by YHWH to try to support a man trying so hard to support a home, family, wife of faith. Heres an email address, Truth be known it breaks my heart to see how very hard he is trying, how very hard he is working, and there isn't even enough to pay rent. modesty_plus_inc@peoplepc.com

One facet of love is loving those who do not love us back. This facet of love is no less beautiful or even rewarding. It may be more difficult and take more patience, but we seek to develop the fullness of all that love is. Ponder a hunk of carbon, formed by immense pressure. In the hands of a skilled jeweler he can take that carbon and create it into one of the most desired objects on this planet. But what determines the value of a diamond? We do, because of the price we are willing to pay for it. But what then of a lesser stone? Could not it be as valuable or even more in the eyes of it's beholder? Yes, there is an emotion called sentimental value. And sentimental value can cause the poorest man on earth to be the richest in the universe. Likewise it can turn a rich man into a beggar.

What is it about the stone that captures our imagination? Is it the way it captures the light? Is it the fire that the light brings out? What is in a sparkle that captures our eye, demands our attention? Or is it not the finished product but the whole story of the diamond that causes us to seek them? To want them? To assign value to them?

With food there can be special things someone makes. Maybe because they are gifted with cooking. And they share this gift to make memories. Saturday morning blueberry pancakes...silver dollar with just a bit of crispness...and the syrup warmed up. The smell of baking bread, cinnamon and spices in the fall, the grill in summer. Maybe it's even that something burned or didn't turn out quite right, still, there are sweet memories in/from the kitchen.

I have received gifts, some of monetary value with no real sentimental or personal thought and expression behind it. I have received a short note on a scrap of paper that moved something inside of me deeply. I don't want to take either for granted. I have fond memories surrounding things given to me, but without the memory it is just an empty object. Without understanding the motive for sharing something I don't think we can appreciate it. It's about the giver not what was given necessarily. Doesn't YHWH send us flowers in the spring? Doesn't he send the frogs to sing after the summer rain? He paints the trees with colors of warmth as the days begin to cool. The cold winter wind makes us appreciate our shelter, no matter how humble and modest it may be.

What is home? Certain square footage? A small home can hold just as much love. Can a childless couple be a "family" or are they "a couple"? Can a person be without a physical shelter but not be "homeless"? Because home is so much more than walls and a roof. These quesitons linger, trying to assign labels and definitions in our lives, so maybe we find where we fit in.

I could not sleep last night. Many times in my life I have escaped my waking life through sleep. But last night I was pondering things. Not bad things or worries that could keep folks up at night. Maybe pondering isn't too far removed from day dreaming sometimes.

Thank you for sharing your testimony and love for your marriage and YHWH. May your family be blessed and your prosperity increased so that your needs are met abundantly and you may be good stewards gifted in all ways. May you grow in grace and knowlege of our Master Messiah and walk in all His promises.

1Co 13:13 And now belief, expectation, and love remain – these three. But the greatest of these is love.

Love,
Renae

Big Smile... the abandonment I meant is my / a persons abandonment IN Yahweh - an abandonment of all pressures and of all fears and all needs(supposed); a freedom from all the cares of the world, even about children and family and friends and government and schools and finance and home... et al etc...

In Yahweh, abiding like a little infant, there is no care for the things of the world - no care for any of them ! YEAH ! YES! in Yahshua... so whatever the world says, whatever the 'pastors' say, whatever the authorities say, whatever the people say .... is naught, nothing, less than nothing.
Even Life rests simply in Yahweh ("under His Wings" ).

The cares and concerns and worries and fears that everyone is pressured to have or to feel or to think is right
..
are gone. That kind of abandonment is what I mean - not being abandoned by Yhvh - though He may do whatever He will -
but rather being totally free in Yhvh (I hardly have words because this isn't taught nor lived by any other soul I know, except Yahshua; though the martyrs in china and elsewhere know better than I and live exceedingly more abandoned IN Yahshua)

abandoned = totally carefree, without any care nor worry,
even while in prison and in torture.

In the u.s.a., everyone is a hypocrite... sigh, that I have met. (especially in tulsa oklahoma)

test everything Scriptrue says... simply tests are there for anyone to read. Everyone tested fails - they have not the faith of a child nor the faith of a mustard seed, because they love their own parents or family or church more than they love Yhvh. (simply, anyone who is/trusts republicans or democrats or catholics or lutherans or methodists or any denomination or any political party or system is still a slave to the power of the enemy)

I didn't see reply till now; email if possible, Yhvh willing. SHABBAT SHALOM IN YAHSHUA !