Shalom everyone,

I am seeking advice from the brethern and would like to know if you have been in my situation and perhaps if you would share your thoughts and outcome.

I am seeking to stay at home for the remaining years of rearing my children. The eldest is 17, then 13, and lastly 10. For many years i've had the desire to be at home. At one time i went so far as to work part time at my place of business (at that time i was there for 19 years) now it has been 26 years. I was given the opportunity granted to me for 1 year to work part time then i was called to full time service.

My husband and i both work outside of the home and the children are in public schools. We have a terrible amount of debt and our house payment is grand. Many times i find myself spending hours to try and figure out how we can make ends meet if i were to quit my job. I realize that i am trying to do all this in my own power (which is none).

My husband seems to be agreeable - but knowing that when we are strapped for money immediately will turn to the idea of selling the house. Not that i'm against that idea but it seems to be a knee jerk reactioni (and this is before I quit)

I have been fasting asking Yah to show me and to speak to me (or help me to hear HIM). I know i must hear - but it's not sooooo clear to me - as i want confirmation. I know of examples in scripture where people asked for confirmation and sometimes it would be given and well others....... you know the story of John the Immersers father. Okay, well i had this thought given to me today that "the Father will not take care of my financial woes until I make that step of faith" not in those words but i interpreted this as being - He wont do anything for me until I leave the workplace.

Scary thought - if that message wasn't from Him. Can you imagine...... barely being able to make ends meet and then taking that step - and leaving the job behind. How can we possibly survive. Also, imagine the stress that my headship will have and will he order me back to work?

The human side says - sell the house, and extra things ---- but then my own head is telling me that in selling these things - I'm in control - not giving Yah the control.

I want YAH in control of my life and the steps we take day by day.

While praising HIM today at lunch - i opened up scriptures and read from Psalms 68......... there were nuggets in there that I choose to count as my own.
Psalm 68:6 Elohim makes a home for the lonely; He brings out into prosperity those who are bound with chains;
8 You, O'Elohim, send a shower of plenty, You confirmed Your inheritence
11-12 YHWH gave the word; the women who proclaimed it was a great company. Sovereigns of armies flee in haste! And she who remains at home divides the spoil.


My question is this....... how can I expect Yah to take care of the debt that we created? I understand sacrifices and giving things up - but to do it in my own power does not give glory unto the Father. This i do know. I know that if i try and work this situation out on paper BEFORE I take action - it will never come to pass - it will never work on paper.

Thank you Abba - I Believe - but HELP me in my unbelief.
Thanks for listening.
~aka. Seeking

Hi Precious One,
I'm not sure I can help but I can offer what I can. I was in your situation once, wanting to stay home to homeschool my children and be there to finish raising them. I came across an opportunity to learn medical transcription at home so that I could work from home. Are you considering working from home at all? It took me nine months to finish the course while still working full time for the most part. I have been working from home for the past seven years and have never regretted it. The way Yahweh worked it out was absolutely amazing now that I look back.

Have you built up equity in your house? Is it possible to set some short-term goals within the next year to chunk out payments for your debts, or to consolidate your debts and then chunk out to pay your consolidation off? I think the key could be taking steps to get where maybe you can at least cut back the amount of hours you work until you can quit, unless you believe strongly that you are supposed to just flat out quit. If you want, email me and maybe we can talk a little more privately about your situation. I have some thoughts,though a lot depends on where you are financially, what you mean by a 'terrible amount of debt', etc. Meanwhile, maybe others can leave you some ideas here.

Sometimes, you have to try opening the doors to see if they are unlocked. Pray that He will guide you and keep you from going through the wrong door. Do you have the faith to do that? He is very able to shut the doors.

Meanwhile, my email is eforum at 123 dot org I just don't know how detailed you want to get here publicly. I'm here if you need to talk more.....In Messiah, becky

{{{{{{{{{{{((((((precious one))))))}}}}}}}}}}}

I'm here for ya, sister!

I'm pulling for ya!

I'm praying for ya!

Let me know how it turns out!

Love you and the family bunches,

angeL/chosen

Shalom precious one

I have a similar situation but am not ready to share all the details publicly yet.

But I would like to offer one piece of advice.

The first thing I decided was that money (mammon) was NOT my elohim and that it was NOT going to make the decisions of my life.

I wanted to be home with my children and the only thing that said "NO" was money.

Well, money is NOT my master!

When I have a decision to make, especially as important as staying home with my children, the money factor is at the bottom of the list of pros and cons.It does not get the priority that it tries to demand.

When my heart desires to do what I think is good and right then I make the decision to do it and any challenges I have to overcome I leave in the hands of YHWH.

Then when a way- even if it is a difficult way- I thank YHWH that it is possible at all.

The path I have chosen is not for everyone but I wanted it and I have taken it. I have stayed home intermittently for most of my children's lives (now 20 and 13.)

Now I have debt but I figured it this way - If I have to choose between raising my kids and staying out of debt, I will raise my children because at the finish line I will get much more satisfaction and no regrets than if I had chosen to build a career and pay off my house and accumulate wealth.

I figured worse scenario financially was not the worse scenario but deep in my heart I don't think YHWH will forsake me.

I have had to suffer the consequences of my choices but that suffering does not include ANY regrets.

My sufferings have all been financial.

I hope this helps
You can email me at squartucci at hotmail dot com if you want to discuss more personal
Shalom
Sharon

Sharon,

I really enjoyed reading your post. Like I said before in my blog to AdoniYah one of my fav memories was when his foot got stuck to the floor and I had to spatula it loose. And if we hadn't been in debt from doing projects I'd never have that memory. And if somebody said I can make all the bad memories disappear but you also have to forget the foot and spatula I'd say no way! Maybe that memory was the cost of the debt, that's life, it was worth it.
This morning his foot got stuck in his work boot and he was on the floor and I had to pull on it for him because he just couldn't get it off himself. So when I would pull it I was pulling him too. It was so funny. Also we saw like 8 black hawk helicopters go over really low. We heard this noise and went outside to watch them. It was one of those mornings LOL.

Maybe some day the debt will be paid off, but in the meantime we'll make memories that are priceless, and it will make sense in the end.
I just heard this song, and I think that it is so comforting. I think it's saying just when we think something's lost or gone forever, you're not lost. It's just part of the ups and downs of life.


Michael Buble "Lost" Lyrics

Can't believe it's over
I watched the whole thing fall
And I never saw the writing that was on the wall
If I'd only knew
The days were slipping past
That the good things never last
That you were crying

Summer turned to winter
And the snow it turned to rain
And the rain turned into tears upon your face
I hardly recognize the girl you are today
And God I hope it's not too late
It's not too late

'Cause you are not alone
I'm always there with you
And we'll get lost together
Till the light comes pouring through
'Cause when you feel like you're done
And the darkness has won
And Babe, you're not lost
When your worlds crashing down
And you can't bear to fall

I said, babe, you're not lost

Life can show no mercy
It can tear your soul apart
!!!!!!!!!It can make you feel like you've gone crazy!!!!!!
But you're not
Things have seem to changed
There's one thing that's still the same
In my heart you have remained
And we can fly fly fly away

'Cause you are not alone
And I am there with you
And we'll get lost together
Till the light comes pouring through
'Cause when you feel like you're done
And the darkness has won
Babe, you're not lost
When the world's crashing down
And you can not bear to crawl
I said, baby, you're not lost
I said, baby, you're not lost
I said, baby, you're not lost
I said, baby, you're not lost

Sharon, if you ever need to talk, email me. I think we can be friends if you still want.

Shalom,
Naesimo

Shalom Naesimo

I agree that we could let finances cloud and lessen so many of our true riches.

Guess that's why you can't have two masters!

Thanks for your offer of friendship and I receive it with honor.

I hope my post doesn't sound as if I have anything but shalom and joy in my life or that I might need to talk about my debt. I was trying to offer encouragement to Precious One. My debt is not a problem too big for YHWH.
As I said before, money is not high on my priority list so the state of my financial affairs, be they abundant or frugal, has no impact on my shalom.
I like abundance but it ain't life or death.
YHWH is life!
That's why I don't want to share too much because I think it might be hard for people to believe that I could be in debt and NOT stressed.

I love hearing how blessed you are.

Shalom
Sharon

Sharon,

If I read something into your post I apologize. I'm not as stressed about our debt as I was at one point. But it can still get to me sometimes. I think it would be a blessing to hear how you are in debt but not stressed, so I look forward to when you feel more comfortable sharing. If you just wanted to email me and we could chit chat or I'd like to hear more how YHWH has blessed you too.

Shalom,
Naesimo

Blessings All,

Yesterday when I read this first post, I started to give an answer. After about two paragraphs I deleted what I wrote because it was becoming too long and too detailed for this type of situation. But, I would just like to bring one point out and I will leave it at that.

The Scriptures say that if you are in debt, then you are a slave to the person or entity that you owe. A slave does have a master. The Scriptures also say that you can not have two masters.

If you look at how much time a person spends at a 'job' every week in order to pay that master, you will probably find out that they spend more time working for the 'mammon system' in oder to satisfy their master than they do in serving Yahushua. Please remember that Yahushua said that he did not even have a home of his own.

There are several techiniques that can be used to get rid of that first master...the easiest is to sell the things that are in debt.

Have you ever looked at how much you are paying for those things that you want (need?) in which you went to another entity to borrow from?

Peace,

JourneyHome

JourneyHome,

Are you saying you don't have a job or home? Do you mean like have a garage sale?

As we grow and get further and further away from old bad habits we are also getting out of debt.

What does this mean?

Gal 3:28 There is not Yehuḏite nor Greek, there is not slave nor free, there is not male and female, for you are all one in Messiah éäåùò.

Shalom,
Naesimo

Blessings Naesimo,

It is not important what or how I have done things since everyones situation is different. All I can say is that I do not owe anyone anythings at this point in my life.

There are soo many different aspects to being financially independent that it would be impossible to address them all here. In dealing with each situation, different aspects of what could be done would come up.

Example...When I learned about being a slave to my lender from the Scriptures I took steps that I could at that time to diminish that slavery. I used to drive a 'new' Jeep Grand Cheerokee. I sold that vehicle in which I had approx $5000.00 of equity in it (unusual I know). I then went and bought an 'old' Toyota P/U truck for $3500 cash and pocketed the additional $1500. Since my payments on the Jeep were $328 per month, I kept paying that amount TO MYSELF...which I then applied to other debt that I had and paid that off. Then I took the $328 from the vehicle and the $200 from the other debt and applied it to another debt. In no time at all, all my debt was gone except for the house. I could have kept that process going with the house, but prices got so high a few years ago that I decided to sell the house. I could not believe the prices they were willing to pay. Now I am looking at buying another house becuase they have come down soo much...but I am not sure we are at the bottom of the cycle yet.

This time I will probably go with an old 'manufactured home' that I can fix up. I will do all this with cash, not financing from a lender.

My monthly EXPENSES (not debt) is around $1000 a month. It does not take too much work to make that in a year...and the 'business' I am in is seasonal so I try and make it within that 6-7 months...which by the way is coming up again soon.

In my 'previous life', I used to help multi-million dollar companies manage their risk and their assets...which included debt. I now offer that to people for free, but I am amazed at how few people really want that help. They too often like to have more than they can afford and just complain about not having any extra money or the long hours they have to work to make ends meet.

I praise YHWH for all the knowledge that He has let me acquire in this area and the 'loss of desire' to keep up with everyone else.

I hope this additonal info has been beneficial for you.

Peace,

JourneyHome

JourneyHome,

We are getting out of debt the same, as things get paid off we are able to put more back and more to other bills. Kinda like a snowball effect I think. AdoniYah is on salary so our income is fixed no matter how many hours he works. He might take a different job when we're out of debt or we might move. Do you mean you do credit counseling?

Shalom,
Naesimo

Hello, JourneyHome,
I want to say how neat that is, that you offer your counseling for free. Would you mind giving me an email address or something to get a hold of you so that I could use you as a reference to others who are needing help? If people could just grasp the priceless knowledge you have to share! You are right, few people truly want this help. Thank you so much....becky

Blessings Naesimo,

I feely give the information as it was freely given to me from YHWH. I try to help others make a plan that fits their needs to become debt free...if that is what they really want. Like I said before, most people really do not want it, they do not care if they are a slave to the lender...just as long as they look 'normal' amoung the neighbors. If things are done right...there is no need for credit...even though I can not get that through to my bank. Every time I walk in there they try to sign me up for another credit card or loan. I almost always say 'I have no need for any credit...just keep my 'money' safe for me...thanks.'

Peace,

JourneyHome

Blessings Becky,

I do not do 'counseling' per se. Each one of us here has something to offer 'The Body'. I just share with people what I would do in a given situation in order to become free from that debt. So I give no advice, just share what I would do, then it is up to them to actually do it.

As for the email address...I do not want to sound 'stuck up'...so please do not take it that way. I have not given my email address out to anyone for a very long time, unless it was necessary for access to something...like to Eliyah for access to the Forum. I have done this for a few reasons. I do not like to communicate by email...I only have it so that I can search the web. Also, everyone knows that I do all my communication with people here on the forum, so there is not any 'behind the scene' communication with others. What I say to someone is here for all to read, and it is a permanent record...so I need to watch what I say or say nothing at all. Lastly, I do not like spam. The only thing that comes into my inbox is offers from my internet provider since they and Eliyah are the only ones that have the address and Eliyah does not use my email address. I did make one exception to that a little while ago and that was to invite a brother that was on this forum, to join me for the Feast this year, but that is over and we do all other communication on the forum.

Maybe we could start by posting some general problems or situations that everyone can benefit from.

Again, I mean no disrespect...I just do not do email.

Peace,

JourneyHome

Shalom Journeyhome

I am so glad that you are happy with your lifestyle and YHWH has led you to that place but your posting is exactly why I won't share publicly my situation.

Someone who is not in debt is ready to make careless, blanketing judgments on those who are.
I see this as your judgement:


I can tell you that this is NOT my situation and I don't know if you are addressing precious one or naesimo or just "most people" but your diagnosis is not called for here. You may have some testimony that you think can help and they would be appreciated but to assume to know the motivations and intents of people is unnecessary.

I am a smart, educated woman with alot of knowledge about finances and so I am aware that I am breaking the laws of "financial soundness".

I whined for a long time to YHWH about my situation and I would tell him every month "This can't go on, this sliding deeper into debt every month" and finally he spoke to me and asked "Why?".
I told him it just wasn't right and reminded HIM of the 'facts' of financial soundness.
YHWH reminded me that HE is my only true source of right and wrong.

Then He reminded me that the original sin was eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
That I was to understand that what YHWH tells me is evil is evil and what YHWH tells me is good is good.
Which is why I didn't understand when something I would call evil (which means I have some kind of knowledge of good and evil-DUH) is not so with YHWH or something I call good is taken away by YHWH.

Hence I often would think YHWH is doing something 'evil' to me and yet theologically I know he is only good.
I would think no such things if I had no knowledge of good and evil.
I would think like Yoseph "Gen 50:20 “And you, you intended evil against me, but Elohim intended it for good, in order to do it as it is this day, ...
Everything is intended for good for me.

He has NOT told me that it is evil to be in debt nor that I have a covetous mind and hard as I find that to comprehend myself, it shall be my stance.

I can tell you that one of the things that has happened is I am being delivered from the fear of money. I am learning to not be mastered by it. Whether I have an abundance or none.

Just to balance it out, it is possible to be driven to be debt-free because of a fear of money or the lack thereof.
Pro 11:24 There is one that scatters, and yet increases; and there is one that withholds more than is right, but it leads to poverty.

As for my situation personally, I could sell my house, move in with relatives, be totally out of debt and some money left over but the bottom line is that is not what YHWH is instructing me to do so I must sit tight and wait upon the deliverance of YHWH rather than executing my own genius plan.

Blessed are those who have no genius plans and must wait upon YHWH!

Because precious one wrote

I interpreted precious one's question to be:
How do I wait upon YHWH in these circumstances?
Correct me if I am wrong.
Shalom
Sharon

Psa 22:4 Our fathers trusted in You; They trusted, and You delivered them.
Psa 22:5 They cried to You, and were delivered; They trusted in You, and were not ashamed.

Hello JourneyHome,
Of course, no offense taken at all, I completely understand. I have had to 'start over' with a new email address because of being overcome by spam and it is not fun since I use my email for my business. I now have an email account where I can use 'aliases and personalities' I.D.'s so that if they get spammed, I just have to delete them and not my whole account. And you do not sound 'stuck up', silly! .....I still appreciate your sharing and hope to run across more posts where you are able to advise others......peace in Him.....becky

Blessings Sharon,

My posts did not have anything to do with anyone in specific. When I was talking about 'most people' it had to do with everyone 'in the world', not really 'believers'...especially those that believe that the OT is still good for instruction. Those that read the Scriptures, usually know what YHWH has to say about debt.

Sorry that you took my comments personally, but I was not thinking of anything you wrote nor what others had written, but the subject in general.

I agree that everyone should wait on YHWH. He put the Israelites into bondage in Egypt and He decided to take them out when He decided to take them out. If it is not your time, then it is not your time.

Of course my help was offered in general to those that think it is the time that YHWH wants them to come out.

Sorry for the misinterpretaion.

Peace,

JourneyHome

Shalom Journeyhome

No misinterpretation on this end.

It seems that often people deflect the correction with " I wasn't talking to you or anyone personally"

This is not a forum for " everyone 'in the world', not really 'believers', etc.

It would probably help in the future if we keep our advice and comments to the believers because that is all that is supposed to be lurking around here.

What the world does is not really our concern or judgement.

1Co 5:12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are inside?
1Co 5:13 But Elohim judges those who are outside...

Shalom
Sharon

I beg to differ. You go off the handle when you have no idea what you are talking about. By your last post you basically just called me a liar. Those that know me know that is not one of my faults...even though I have many.

As I have stated before, there are no believers around me that I meet with. If I have not addressed it on this forum, then I have not addressed it to believers before. I did not even read your first post...I basically just skimmed it. There was an instance in the past year that I started to try and help a brother that was in need, but after a short conversation I understood that he knew what the Scriptures stated, but he was not at a place where he was ready to do anything about it. He did not even know that I was inquiring of him about finances. So we never even spoke about the subject.

This forum has nothing to do with it. I stated my experience and my experience has only been with them 'in the world', but it does not seem to be starting out too different with you...though I was not even talking to you.

It might help in the future to ask for clarification before jumping in. You are way off on your comments.

The Messiah said that he did not come to call the rightous, but the sinners. I offer a helping hand to everyone that I can. For the most part it is the non-believers that do not know what the Scriptures say on certain subjects. They are the ones that need the help most. Those that know what to do and do not do it...well, not much I can do about that.

I am not judging anyone at all. What I have offered is my help. I also stated in my experience in what the most common reason for those 'in the world' have for not taking action even after they know the stratigies to take care of the problem. Of course it comes down to breaking a Commandment...Ex. 20:17

It is amazing how two people can read the same thing and come to totally opposite conclusions. You think that I am doing something incorrect, hence your need to correct me, and Becky thinks that it is great that I am offered my help to people free of charge. AMAZING!!!

I will not say anything to you further unless you want my help. So any other comments (if any) that are said on this subject are NOT directed towards you...nor were they to begin with.

Since you are a 'smart woman dealing with finances', then I would not think you would need any help from me.

Peace,

JourneyHome

Blessings Becky,

Thanks for the understanding. The problem for me came when I opened emails that seemed to be from legitamate sources and turned out to have a virus. I have had to replace two computers so far. After the second one I decided to not give it out nor really use it.

Knowledge about computers and emails and the internet are not my strong points. I am just playing it safe.

As a side note, I have enjoyed reading several of your posts...they have a good spirit behind them. Hope to 'talk' again soon.

Peace,

JourneyHome

Shalom journeyhome

I know you said you won't be saying anything else to me. That's OK.

You are right that I don't need any help from you but precious one WAS seeking help from the brethren.

I did not call you a liar nor am I going off the handle. This is an internet forum and it consists of typed words, nothing more.
Anything else is envisioned by the reader.

If there is any misinterpretation then it is because I don't understand why you write words to "no one personally" or "unbelievers" or "the world".
People throw things out there and then if someone calls them on it they say "OH,I wasn't talking about YOU" or "don't take it personal" which means it would have been offensive IF it was personal.
like
"Squartucci,
You really do not want it, you do not care if you are a slave to the lender...just as long as you look 'normal' amoung the neighbors.
You are in debt because you desire to keep up with the Jones and ..."
The Scriptures say that if you are in debt, then you are a slave to the person or entity that you owe. A slave does have a master. The Scriptures also say that you can not have two masters. **inference: So YHWH is not your master - Debt is.**
shalom
Journeyhome

It reminds me of the proverb :
Pro 26:18 Like a madman who throws sparks, arrows, and death,
Pro 26:19 So is a man who deceived his neighbour, And says, “I was only joking!”

or I wasn't talking to you"

I know there are people who read and do not post on this site, so there is an invisible audience, but there is a PERSON who started this subject and at least they should be addressed.

Precious one had asked for us to share our thoughts and outcome, which you did well, but the unbalanced judgment that people are in debt because of blah, blah ... was not edifying or encouraging to those in debt.

In my mind, my posts have been for the benefit of precious one, including my correction of you.
I did not think you were addressing me 'personally' and I knew that when I corrected you, you were gonna say "Oh I wasn't talking to precious one or naeismo or squartucci" -
"I was talking ABOUT someone who probably isn't here reading?"

Then WHAT is the point of what you said about why the world and unbelievers are in debt?
Typing with no point?

The correction was:
Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt word come out of your mouth, but only such as is good for the use of building up, so as to impart what is pleasant to the hearers.

There are hearers here. High probability they are ALL believers

As for Becky and I coming to different conclusions, I doubt it.
She was focusing on how great it is that you do it for others for free and I agree.
I was just balancing out your statements about people in debt because I know what people, who are in debt, have to contend with and it does not help when somebody who has been led out comes along with anything less than courage, hope and strength for them.
PERHAPS Becky probably knows better than trying to correct people, even believers.
I am learning that it requires a trusting relationship (hard to establish on the internet) in order to speak a word of correction to someone.

Shalom
Sharon

Shalom Journey Home~

I do want to support and encourage you and thank you for the offering of your help on financial matters. I am persuaded to keep myself out of debt and in actuality I don't believe it is that hard to do. Your testimony on becoming released from all debt is very encouraging and I'm sure there are some out there that can see it for what it is - wisdom. Although I don't necessarily see the lender as becoming the other master in the sense of it (the lending institution) becoming the master over our lives, yet we do become a slave to that lender until the debt is paid, I don't believe it is a sin to borrow money, yet according to Scripture we are accountable for our oaths and we must perform them. The failure to perform them is the sin.

Numbers 30:2:
2“When a man vows a vow to Yahuah, or swears an oath to bind himself by some agreement , he does not break his word, he does according to all that comes out of his mouth.

Proverbs 3:27:
Withhold not good from them to whom it is due, when it is in the power of thine hand to do [it].

Scripture says that the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil and in this world it takes money to survive as it has in most all generations; so contrary to some people's belief the ability to do work and receive money to purchase items is a blessing; without the blessings of Yahuah upon my hands I would be able to do nothing, but I have been blessed with the ability to support my family and live a very modest life-style and still have the overflow of the production to help others in need. I have only one debt at this point in time and that is the house that I am purchasing and Yahuah willing it will be paid off within 7 years; saving an unreasonable amount of interest over 30 years of some $80,000 or so. To me that is an enormous amount of money, even if it is spread out over 30 years! In which I think that $80,000 would be much better spent investing in the Kingdom works rather than giving it to the rich money gluttons. I also have credit cards in which I took my mother's advice and got one that pays cash back for purchases so I do use this one particular card for most everything I can and simply pay the bill in full at the end of the bill cycle with no extra charges, I am in fact using their money and they're paying me to do it. I've had this card for approximately nine years and they have paid me approximately $4-500 so far with absolutely zero charges incurring to me. HalleluYAH! That is a blessing because Yahuah has shown me how to save the money that I earned through the blessings of the work of my hands.

All esteem to Yahuah,

Greg

shalom JourneyHome,

some of my relatives are in debt and I've often wondered how to help them get out of it... I was delighted to read your advice, and will share it with them.

Thank you so much for sharing


------------------
Blessed be the Name of YHWH

Shalom all,

I just thought I'd share and let you all know that I'm still here reading the posts. Thanks again for the encouragement and lessons for getting out of debt - i have heard this before and have tried this concept for paying the bills down/off. It is very difficult when there are 2 that perhaps may not be working toward the same goal. Please pray for single mindedness for us.

I wanted to share with you all a little something that happened yesterday that I thought was interesting - doesn't have to do with getting out of debt; however.

Anyhow, when I first posted my question - and during my fast i had written down some things that i wanted to accomplish during the fast. The most important was to be able to hear from YAH or know when HE is speaking to me.

Anyhow, one of the things I had metioned was that i really didn't want to sell my home. Just the thought of all the work - ugh. But, yesterday i looked in local adds and found the most perfect place - it had everything that i could ever want - and still close enough that the children could have the same friends. It had garden beds, fruit trees, close to a lake, a barn and more. The nice thing is that we could sell our home and buy this place and be out of debt. I couldn't wait to see it. I made arrangements to see it on the first day (sun). Sure sounded like Yah had a perfect place for us.... until the call came in that said that it was already sold. Talk about a let down!!!!!!!!! I was so disappointed. How could that happen? At first I'm not real up to the idea of moving - then i find a place for a perfect price that had everything that I had mentioned on a homestead---- and now it's gone?

Well, anyhow --- I came to the conclusion that perhaps Yah was testing me to see if i would be receptive to a move. And - now I know that I would be - HalleluYAH! The only other thing that comes to mind is that if He calls me to move - it will be better than this other place for HE knows what I'd asked for!

For now, i'm over the idea of moving or looking - and will settle in for the winter season!

Lastly, JourneyHome......... perhaps you could be of assistance - I was told about an program called the 72T where one could invest their retirement moneys or 401K and get distributions from them on a set basis to avoid the 10% penlty that the IRS imposes. I found an adivsor on the net who has been faithfully for 6 months sending out stock advice as to what is happening with the markets and all.... but along with it he sends out updates regarding his extravagant vacations - which is mind boggling. HOw do i find out if this guy is legitamate or a fraud? Anyhow - just wondering if you knew about the 72T and if you had any insight into any of this.

You can email me at drwendt at beecreek dot net.

Thanks,
PreciousOne

Precious One,

I, too, am looking to work from my home. I have recently found out that within a year's time the newspaper that I work for will outsource our department to India.

After 26 years of my faithful work, this comes as quite a blow, but I believe that Yah's hand is in it. I have been praying for some time to find a way to stay home and work, and I have to wonder, was it my idea to pray for a change, or did Yah change my heart to pray?

So, I am in the process of setting up a home office, it will take some time because I will need a powerful computer and the programs I will use cost $1,500 to $2,500, and I definitely do not want to get in debt to get there. My debt load is comparatively light. But, while I have a tons of marketable artistic skills, I have no skill at marketing or business savvy, so this will be a big step for me.

I think the best thing to do in this situation is to just continue to pray and wait on Yah. When I did, things started happening...I was able to faithfully give tithe, able to straighten out my finances, able to start setting aside savings, and have a whole new perspective on the situation, rather than think 'this can't be done', it has progressed to 'I think this will work!' While I am not 'there' yet, I walking in the right direction.


I pray that direction and courage are given to you abundantly, and that you find a situation that is just right for you!

Blessings All,

I have been away for a few days. I just got back on the computer this morning. I have skimmed the responses and hopefully will respond back to everyone by this evening. I did not want you to think that I was ignoring you.

Peace,

JourneyHome

Blessings Watchman555,

I appreciate your support and encouragement. The reason why I decided to respond to this thread was to show that it could be done and what a release it is when it is accomplished...all while giving the praise to YHWH. Without His words, I would not have known and without His strength, I would not have been able to do it. With that said though...I did make mistakes while I was going through this and I wanted to be able to help others that would want to do the same thing.

I am glad that you brought up the point about being accountable with our oaths. I have seen people (again, those of the world), think that the committments that they make are not binding. That is one reason I said that the easiest way to get out of debt is to SELL the thing that you are in debt for. Not saying that is the only way or the best way, but it fufills your obligation to pay it off and usually will put a little money in the pocket.

As for the master/slave relationship...I think of it more like 'freedom to do what you want as long as the payment is made at the end of the month'. The 'Master' does not care how you do it, just get it done. But my experience has been that the person has to go out for many hours a week at a job in order to pay that thing at the end of the month. So, if it is looked upon as 'the number of hours per month I work to pay this debt, I am working for 'my master'', then people put in an enormous amount of time to that cause.


I agree with much of what you stated above, but I have some comments that might share some different perspectives.

As for the house and interest...There is usually not too much of a difference in the monthly expense between rent and mortgage. At the end of a mortgage you will have the house, where in rent you have 'paid as you go' the expenses. If someone wanted to get out of debt, they could sell the house. Usually, there is some equity involved that could be used to 'scale down' with no debt.

Example: If I had a home I purchased for $100K and in 10 years I could sell it for $200K...also lets say that I had 'earned' another 15K in equity from making the payments, I would have a potential of $115K of cash if I wanted to sell it. I could probably find a piece of land and an older manufactured home that I could by for that $115k and would not have a mortgage at all, but would have a home 'free and clear'.

On the subject of money...( this is not legal advice!) from my reasearch I have discovered that money in the United States of America is ONLY Gold and Silver coin. So when someone talks about 'money' they are usually not referring to that, but are referring to Federal Reserves NOTES. A note is an obligation to pay, but is not payment itself. So most people do not work for money, but for debt notes that are made of out 'thin air', by a private entity called the Federal Reserve Bank which is a PRIVATE enitiy. There is NO inflation with money...but there is with notes.

Another issue is 'who actually is debt free'? If someone owns their land out right, but still owes a 'property tax', then how free are they really? So unless the whole thing is handled, no one is actually free, but just less of a slave to the system.

I only bring these things up (there are many more) to show that the subject at hand is very complicated and has many angles to it.

As for the credit card...I think that you are on the right track. I used to do the same, but then I put the credit card away and pay cash or money orders for everything. After reading the agreement with the credit card companies, I did not want to participate. I have not used a card for about 8 years now.

Now that you do not have any debt from anything but your house, have you been applying the payments you used to make on the other debts to your house payment? There are mortgage calculators on the web that you can mess around with that can show you how much of a savings you can get by applying different amounts to your payment. If you EVER decide to apply more money to a payment, make sure you put a note stating that all the extra money is to be applied to the PRINCIPAL and not the interest.

I am going to run for now. Thanks again for the encouragment and support.

Peace,

JourneyHome

Blessings Bluesun,

You are welcome. If there are any specifics of situations that you or your relatives are wanting to 'run by someone', please feel free to do so. I will do what I can.

Peace,

JourneyHome

Blessings PreciousOne,

I do not think that I would be the best one to comment on this situation because it is more of an investment question and not one of debt. But, I will offer you what I have.

I have not heard of the 72T program probably because it is just another program put together by the system like the 401K. It is just a number of the 'law' that they wrote on how a person can spend or save their 'notes'.

As for checking out the 'advisor'... if he is legit, then he would be registered with someone...my thinking is that it would be the SEC (Securities and Exchange Commission). They have a record of all that are liscensed and if there are any complaints or fines against that liscense.

Another good way to find out about him would be to ask him certain questions.

Are you liscensed?
Have you ever been fined or written up?
How long have you been in this business?
Are you a member of any Business group (Better Business Bureau)?
How do you get paid?
How much do you get paid if I were to do business with you?

Now my personal opinion is that a person should not invest, until they are debt free. If you run the numbers, I think you will find out that it turns out alot better to pay off all your debt first, then look to invest. If you take the principals that I explained in previous posts with applying the payments of debt to other debt...when you are finished with your debt, you will have quite a good amount each month to invest. Of course it depends on the amount of debt and the age of the person.

One last thing...it is very important for everyone in the household to be on the same page with the same goals. Without that it is very hard and it will seem like you are 'shooting yourself in the foot' when the other person(s) go blowing the money are acquiring new debt.

Hope this helps a little. Anything else please ask.

Peace,

JourneyHome

Blessings czygyny,

I majored in college in Business with a marketing concentration. If you have questions as you start this journey feel free to ask. I will do what I can to help.

Peace,

JourneyHome

JourneyHome,

Many thanks for the offer of assistance!

I think one of the biggest problems for me will be keeping track of finances and coordination of projects. Argghh, I detest having to keep account of every little thing. The artist's spirit loves to just 'do' as it comes and not set a plan and definite course. While the creativity thrives in such an attitude, a business does not!

Years ago, my ex decided that I was to be his 'secretary and accountant' for his now-defunct construction business. While it was not my inability to wear these 'hats' in this situation that caused the demise of the business, it did cause a great deal of friction.

But, the only way I am going to be able to utilize my talents is to freelance or chance upon a telecommuting position for illustration or advertising. Once able to provide for my basic needs then I might feel bold enough to start doing other projects like children's books, fine art, and other things.

I have no savings to speak of, since my ex did a splendid job of spending all of my money, his money, and everybody else's foolish enough to lend to him, so at this point I don't have a cushion to rely on, but I will have enough for the computer in a month or two.

Yah will provide if I will wait and listen, and obey...



[This message has been edited by czygyny (edited 10-30-2007).]

I'd like to share this praise report with you on the goodness of our Father Yahweh.
A year ago my husband and I was ask to take some papers to a attorney for my sister-in-law. This was a 300 mile round trip and we didn't have much money, but we knew this was important to her. So before leaving we prayed for Yahweh to watch over us and keep us safe as we traveled.
We delivered the papers, and was returning home, and I told my husband as we stopped for gas, if we had enough money to get a couple cups of coffee and some sandwiches.
He ask me back if I had faith to believe Yahweh would provide us some money, and I
answered him, with all my heart I believe Father Yahweh will provide for us.
We left after paying for the gas, and continued about another 50 miles into this small town. I was driving and came up to a red light, when suddenly my husband said, "I see some money", and jumped out of the car and ran in front and picked something up off the ground, just as the light turned green. I ask him what he had found and he opened his hand and there was a 100.00 dollar bill.
What is the chance of finding a 100 dollar bill laying in the middle of the road?
I pulled into a parking lot, of a store, and we both said at the same time. Thank you Father. As I looked up, I saw a small resturant and we was able to go get the coffee and something to eat.
I said all this to encourage each of you needing some help to faithfully ask of your Father Yahweh and believe that He will come through with flying colors.
Scriptures tells us to ask and you will recieve.
This is only one example of how Yahweh has came through for me in my life when I needed it. He's never ever failed me. All it takes is faith. I ask of Him and believe its already done, and leave the rest to Father.

Shalom

This is more my cup of tea for financial advice. LOL
I have read most of the books from Larry Burkett to Dave Ramsey and they just don't teach it to that extent.

The scriptures show the people of YHWH being made rich in many ways and they don't involve scraping and scrounging pennies.

Lets see:
Picking dead bodies - 2Ch 20:25
Favor of Pharoahs handing over riches - Gen 13:1-2
Lepers find an empty camp FULL of riches - 2Ki 7:8
Fish mouths?!Mat 7:27

I just don't see debt reduction, mortgage acceleration and 401 K's in YHWH's way of doing things. LOL Nothing against them but my hope is NOT there.

This post is in lightness - Please laugh WITH me

Shalom
Sharon

Shalom Everyone~

Sharon said:



She brought out some valid Scriptures but as far as debt reduction, mortgage acceleration, and 401Ks not being Yahuah's way of doing things, let us see what the Word says -

2 Thess. 3:10-12:
10 For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone does not want to work, neither let him eat. 11 For we hear of some among you walking disorderly, not working at all, but are busybodies. 12 But we command and urge such, through our Master Yahusha Messiah, to settle down, work and eat their own bread. I do consider the homemaking woman having a great work.

I think these verses speak for themselves. Consider Sha'ul, he was a tent maker and although he could have went around and had everyone pay for his way he elected to work as a tent maker that he might provide for himself and others.

Acts 20:32-35:
32 “And now, brothers, I commit you to Elohim and to the word of His compassion which is able to build you up and give you an inheritance among all those having been set apart. 33 “I have coveted no one’s silver or gold or garments. 34 “And you yourselves know that these hands supplied my needs, and for those who were with me. 35 “All this I did show you, by laboring like this, that you ought to help the weak. And remember the words of the Master Yahusha, that He said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’ ”

I don't think he meant giving interest to the banks.

Matt. 25:12-30:
12 “But he answering, said, ‘Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ 13 “Watch therefore, because you do not know the day nor the hour in which the Son of Adam is coming, 14 for it is like a man going from home, who called his own servants and delivered his possessions to them. 15 “And to one he gave five talents, and to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability, and went from home. 16 “And he who had received the five talents went and worked with them, and made another five talents. 17 “In the same way, he with the two also, he gained two more. 18 “But he who had received the one went away and dug in the ground, and hid the silver of his master. 19 “And after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 “And he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me five talents. See, I have gained five more talents besides them.’ 21 “And his master said to him, ‘Well done, good and trustworthy servant. You were trustworthy over a little, I shall set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ 22 “Then he who had received two talents came and said, ‘Master, you delivered to me two talents. See, I have gained two more talents besides them.’ 23 “His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and trustworthy servant. You were trustworthy over a little, I shall set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ 24 “And the one who had received the one talent also came and said, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed, 25 and being afraid, I went and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.’ 26 “And his master answering, said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 ‘Then you should have put my silver with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. 28 ‘Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to him who possesses ten talents. 29 ‘For to everyone who possesses, more shall be given, and he shall have overflowingly; but from him who does not possess, even what he possesses shall be taken away. 30 ‘And throw the worthless servant out into the outer darkness – there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

Interesting parable and although it is a parable would we say that this does not have a literal meaning? I think we can take the literal of this parable here. Yahusha did not give a tov report to the one that hid his talent in the ground. As a matter of fact what he was given was taken away and given to someone else. It kind of sounds like interest on a loan... you go out and work and what you do have is taken and given to another.

The Torah says~

Deut. 15:1-6:
“At the end of every seven years you make a release of debts. 2 “And this is the word of the release: Every creditor is to release what he has loaned to his neighbor, he does not require it of his neighbor or his brother, because it is called the release of Yahuah. 3 “Of a foreigner you could require it, but your hand is to release whatever is owed by your brother. 4 “Only, there should be no poor among you. For Yahuah does greatly bless you in the land which Yahuah your Elohim is giving you to possess as an inheritance, 5 only if you diligently obey the voice of Yahuah your Elohim, to guard to do all these commands which I am commanding you today. 6 “For Yahuah your Elohim shall bless you as He promised you. And you shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow. And you shall rule over many nations, but they do not rule over you.

We know that the world's system does not obey Torah; especially in purchasing a house. Yet I do believe it is Yahuah's plan - the 7-year plan to pay off what is owed. In our case we purchased our home two years ago and have been paying extra on the principal and so far have saved $38,951.44. Yes, we are on an amortization schedule. Like I said before Yahuah willing, we will have the house paid off in 7 years with a savings of some $80,000.00. Now if anybody wants to call that penny pinching they must have a lot more pennies than I. According to the bolded part in the Scriptures if we obey His commandments we would receive the blessing of being the lender and not the borrower.

Call me a penny pincher or whatever but I personally feel that I have been blessed with the income I have. It is His, He gave it to me and I shall give in return. But who should I give to? The banks at their exorbitant interest rates? Or where Yahuah chooses?

1 Chron. 29:10-14:
10 And Dawid blessed Yahuah before all the assembly. And Dawid said, “Blessed are You, Yahuah Elohim of Yisra’el, our Father, forever and ever. 11 “Yours, O Yahuah, is the greatness, the power and the comeliness, the preeminence and the excellency, because of all that is in the heavens and in the earth. Yours is the reign, O Yahuah, and You are exalted as head above all. 12 “And the riches and the esteem come from Your presence, and You rule over all. And in Your hand is power and might, and in Your hand to make great and to give strength to all. 13 “And now, our Elohim, we thank You and praise Your comely Name. 14 “But who am I, and who are my people, that we should be able to give so voluntarily as this? For all comes from You, and we have given to You out of Your hand.

~Greg

Greg,

I hope this isn't changing the subject but I was wondering about something in that Parable: 24 “And the one who had received the one talent also came and said, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed, 25 and being AFRAID, I went and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.’ 26 “And his master answering, said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed.

1Jo 4:18 There is NO FEAR in LOVE, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear holds punishment, and he who fears has not been made perfect in love.

Jam 1:4 And let ENDURANCE have a perfect work, so that you be perfect and complete, lacking in naught.

Heb 5:7 who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and petitions with strong crying and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His reverent fear,
Heb 5:8 though being a Son, He learned obedience by what He suffered.
Heb 5:9 And having been perfected, He became the Causer of everlasting deliverance to all those obeying Him,

Heb 12:6 for whom YHWH loves, He disciplines, and flogs every son whom He receives.”1 Footnote: 1Prov. 3:11-12.
Heb 12:7 If you endure discipline, Elohim is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom a father does not discipline?
Heb 12:8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become sharers, then you are illegitimate and not sons.
Psa 94:12 Blessed is the man You discipline, O Yah, And instruct out of Your Torah,

Mat 5:48 “Therefore, be perfect,1 as your Father in the heavens is perfect. Footnote: 1Ex. 17:1, Ps. 119:1, 1 John 2:5, Heb. 6:1.

Do you think the bad servant is one that grumbles against YHWH and doesn't take the flogging or discipline or doesn't learn endurance? Or doesn't learn that being able to endure pain removes the fear and causes you to be able to love fearlessly? Also do you think it's about sorta what has happened on the board recently, hiding our scars or weaknesses instead of sharing them and making ourselves vulnerable to our brothers and sisters in Messiah. Is that like whitewashing, I mean to not admit our past or our present weaknesses? Like if we never told brethren where we started from they could never see how YHWH has helped us overcome?

Shalom,
Naesimo

Shalom Greg

I would call that wisdom and good stewardship.

When I think of penny pinching I think of the proverb:

Pro 11:24 There is one that scatters, and yet increases; and there is one that withholds more than is right, but it leads to poverty.

This can manifest in many ways and each man judges himself.

In my case, I have chosen to stay home with my children and the only way I saw to do it was live off the equity in my house rather than providing a second income outside the home. I have argued a few times with YHWH about the soundness of this plan but he assures me everything will be alright.

I believe that my 'investment' of 'talents' have produced a multitude of 'talents'. I guess I will see in the final accounting but meanwhile my conscience is clean.

Just how much are children worth?
(Please understand this is from my heart, as a woman)

Should I sell them to the babysitter,daycare or government's public schools for $40,000 a year, $60,000 or $100,000 a year.
If we are slave to the lender are we not also slave to the boss?

I do make money selling on eBay and other means that I am not told I have to work when YHWH, my husband or children need me. I WORK hard in my home and homeschool too (which doesn't pay cash) and still I am free and available for YHWH, my husband, and my children.

Let's not forget that all work does not pay cash but that does not devalue it, especially in the eyes of YHWH.
I think we ALL might fare better if we arranged our lives on the premise of "What would I do with my life if money were not an issue?"
I think we would be a little closer to understanding YHWH's good and perfect will for our lives.

It works for me.
I judge no one and hope to not be judged by anyone.

Shalom
Sharon

Sharon,

Beautiful!

You shared insights into words that have endured too much religiosity and brought out their true beauty!

Thanks!



Shalom,
Naesimo

Blessings czygyny,

I am sorry to hear about the problems with your X. I could not agree more that YHWH will provide for His as long as we are walking the walk He wants us to. Keep your chin up and please remember that if you need help...there are people here that will.

Peace,

JourneyHome

Blessings Yahs_Lamb,

I think that most believers have had similiar situations where YHWH has showed that He was watching over us and listening to our prayers to Him. I have often thought about the 'How did it actually happen'?

When did the $100 bill actually get put on the road?
Was it a real bill that was made long ago or did YHWH make his own?
Did it fall out of someones pocket or car?
Was it there right after the prayer, or did YHWH wait until you got close to the light?
Did YHWH turn the light red so that you would have to stop?
What caused your husband to look where he did? Sparkle on the road?

I could go on and on, but I have fun thinking of those things when I understand YHWH had His hand in it.

Praise be to YHWH!

Peace,

JourneyHome

Blessings Greg,

That is truly great in my opinion. I am encouraged to see and hear about the success of applying YHWH's principals for other Believers. It is really good to know that you know how much you have saved so far and how much it will save you by the end of the plan.

I do not know your annual salary, but it is interesting (in my opinion) that if you take a look at the after tax dollars you saved, how many years you can 'take off' from work.

Example: If a person saved $80,000 with this one move and they earned about $20,000 a year, that would be a 4 year vacation without having any difference in the net monies. If it were $40,000 a year, then that would be 2 years.

Praise YHWH!

Peace,

JourneyHome

JourneyHome,

There is much more to the story than just that, but the firey trial with him was part of the impetus bringing me to the place that I am in Yah, today. Lots of 'rough' stone was knocked off of me in those times, and a finer polish was put to the facets.

Just like the $100 bill story, YHWH can bring about amazing blessings and opportunity for a show of His Kind Hand.